Pittsburgh Penguins group therapy session

by FrankD on Jan 9, 2009 9:30 AM EST in News Comment 36 comments

Crying_baby_medium

Pensburgh editor JDunman reacts to last night's loss

Frustration builds.

You can punch a wall all you want but you're still going to hurt inside.

The first step is admitting you have a problem.

We have a problem.

I hate to do this. I really wish it didn't have to come to this, but I believe it's time for a group therapy session; Pensburgh's first ever.

Use this post as a chance to express any concerns you have about the team. Let's talk players, personnel, management , last night's horrid loss - whatever. Now's your chance to get it all out.

Try and brighten the mood with promising thoughts surrounding Jordan Staal's recent contract extension, the new arena or anything else you can try and cheer us up with.

Barring any serious breaking news I plan to keep this going for most of the day.

We'll get through this together. I have faith.

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Outside of the fact that Staal was WAAAAAAAAY out of position at times last night, it was nice to see him put some shots on net. I think I do like this, but the Pens’ manic coach will probably not reunite Staal and Crosby any time soon. Other than that, I have accepted that this is not the Pens’ year. I will be happy with a first round playoff victory. Maybe this team needs a little adversity to overcome.

by PensFan024 on Jan 9, 2009 9:44 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

“Manic coach?” So I take it you’re not in full support of MT?

I think Staal showed a little more energy out there last night. It’s almost like he was thinking, “Finally, I made it.” Not in terms of money, but in terms of status. As we’ve seen in the past, if you put a winger on the line and convince him he’s good enough to play alongside Sid he’ll play/think he is. It’s a confidence boost.

I’m not ready to write off the season just yet, but I’m known for my stubbornness.

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by FrankD on Jan 9, 2009 9:47 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I was in favor of HCMT before last night. After I saw some of the things that passed for line combinations last night, I’m beginning to tire of his style. The combinations at the beginning of the third made zero sense. Other than putting Sid and Geno together, it’s like Therrien pulls names out of a hat to come up with combinations.

As Rorabaugh put it, “We knew it was premature to get excited over the Penguins’ lines earlier today. Sykora was on a line with Crosby and Staal when he scored the Penguins’ goal. Now, Satan is on with Maxime Talbot and Dustin Jeffrey. Dany Sabourin is going to get some time on a line with TIm Wallace eventually. We think.”

I wouldn’t have been half surprised.

Pittsburgh Black And Gold -- So new, it still smells like paint!

by JustinM on Jan 9, 2009 10:02 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

hahaha I even said to my friend last night that the Penguins’ PP was so sloppy they should keep Fleury at center ice as a backup.

MT is quite erratic with his lines and I fear that it’s going to cost him. It’s already cost the team.

I think Sykora is the most versatile guy when it comes to line combos. He works well with Malkin and, as evidenced by last night, can get it going with Sid too. His head is always up and he anticipates the play better than anyone else lately

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by FrankD on Jan 9, 2009 10:20 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I want to know more about how a coaching ‘team’ works. During games I see Yeo with the little white magic board a lot more than MT, if MT ever? Is he making the plays, deciding/changing line combos, speaking/drawing MT’s decisions? Couldn’t you just hire a couple of new assistants for the head coach that would have fresh ideas. Do you know what i’m saying? I cannot say for sure that I would ditch the A’s before the head because I don’t know enough about who does what and the ratio on a coaching staff.

by AngelaMc on Jan 9, 2009 3:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I do support HCMT

I often don’t understand what the heck that crazy frenchman is doing but until now he has been nothing short of remarkable. I firmly believe MT will not be fired.

by PensFan024 on Jan 9, 2009 10:37 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

“As we’ve seen in the past, if you put a winger on the line and convince him he’s good enough to play alongside Sid he’ll play/think he is. It’s a confidence boost.”

I’ve always thought that Staal preferred center, and that’s where he’s wanted to be. I never thought he wasn’t confident enough to play with Sid or Geno, but that he preferred (for the sake of his next contract) to get a chance to showcase himself as a center; getting the opportunity to take draws, playing down low, etc.

Now that he has the contract, it’s time to shift to wing and put up some goals like he did in 06-07.

by Hooks Orpik on Jan 9, 2009 12:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

True, but i think we can all agree that Staal needs a boost and not just in terms of year and dollars. He’s sluggish out there and missing wide-open opportunities. Confidence is probably a bigger factor than we think. I’d bet he’s thinking about that rookie year constantly too.

If anything it doesn’t hurt getting him familiar with playing wing. In the end it’ll just open up ways for the Penguins to use him.

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by FrankD on Jan 9, 2009 12:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I think they overpaid for Staal in an attempt to hold things together. Maybe he’ll grow into his role. Who knows.

by digital_cable on Jan 9, 2009 10:11 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

anyone else think it weird that the contract doesn’t kick in until next season? Is there some sort of secret performance clause included, like, you better score 20 goals the rest of this season or the Pens play Lucy with the football and Staal is Charlie Brown?

That’d be one way to light a fire under his butt….

by ahtrap on Jan 9, 2009 12:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I think that may just be there way of working it into next season’s cap. He would’ve been a FA after this season anyway. I just wonder what other offers on the market would’ve been like.

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by FrankD on Jan 9, 2009 12:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The new collective bargaining agreement does not allow for renegotiations on entry level contracts. The full contract must be played out. Also, the new contract can be negotiated and signed no more than a year before the current entry level contract is to expire.

by PensFan024 on Jan 9, 2009 12:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I figured it had something to do with that. You keep it up and we may have an opening here on Pensburgh for Residential CBA Expert..

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by FrankD on Jan 9, 2009 12:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Didn't know that

Appreciate the clarification, 24.

I’d just never heard that particular detail included in news of a contract extension; didn’t think to consider that it was a mandated detail…

by ahtrap on Jan 9, 2009 4:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I brought this up when the game ended in the thread – in the last few games, the Pens have been outplayed heavily when they are on the power play. When Nashville scored shorthanded last night, they had a 2 on 1 and scored on the one-timer. As I watched them break away, I said to myself ‘Oh, that’s going to be a goal.’

The Pens never seem to get an advantage we they have an extra man. When they pulled the goalie for the extra attacker, suddenly Nashville looked like they had an extra guy. I understand that empty netters happen all the time when the goalie’s pulled, but it really stands out when the Penguins are consistently awful with a man up.

Amongst other things, they are going to have to fix their power play, and they are going to have to play a full game of hockey, no matter how matter how many goals they have and no matter how many extra men they have on the ice.

Let's go Pens!

by JDunman on Jan 9, 2009 10:24 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Regarding the PP

Along with their system in general, the Power Play has been scouted I think. Teams have figured out how to stop the Pens’ offense and need to put a wrinkle in the system to throw opponents off. It just seems that the Pens opponents know exactly where to be and what to do with the puck once they have it. It is time for some creative thinking on the coaches part.

by PensFan024 on Jan 9, 2009 10:34 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Ditto..you beat me to that same sentiment by two minutes (see below)

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by FrankD on Jan 9, 2009 10:37 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I’m totally with ya. It’s bad enough the PP isn’t converting but now they are giving up more goals than they produce.

This is a team heavily anchored on a strong offense. This is both good and bad. As seen by last night’s debacle, they can score fast and open it up, but their defense and/or hesitation to keep the pressure on will cost them games.

Is it safe to say the PP is playing scared? It’s how I feel every time I see them out there. “Pass all you want, but choose your shots wisely.” But all of those passes wind up going the other way. It looks to me like it’s too choreographed and teams know when to drop to block a shot, collapse around the cage or break the other way.

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by FrankD on Jan 9, 2009 10:36 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Frank, your up on Puck Daddy again. Congrats.

by PensFan024 on Jan 9, 2009 11:21 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Just caught that. Thanks for the heads up.

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by FrankD on Jan 9, 2009 11:24 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

So, I just got a text from the pens advertising upper level party tix at a discounted price. This never happened last season. I could be wrong, but if tickets are being discounted, has the organization lost faith? I refuse to panic and give up on they Pens making it to the first round of playoffs, but I am extremely stubborn.

by hockeyjenn on Jan 9, 2009 11:32 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

nah, i wouldn’t say the organization is losing faith at all. Maybe more a promotion to get people into the seats left behind by those who can’t budget them in during the economic turnaround. As for faith though? Nah, we’re ok in that department.

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by FrankD on Jan 9, 2009 11:38 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Good point, I didn’t figure the economy into the discount reason.

by hockeyjenn on Jan 9, 2009 11:56 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

All in all I guess I’m just happy that no other team in the Atlantic is really on any kind of a hot streak right. If we’re going to lose we might as well do it while other teams in the division are slumping a bit as well.

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by FrankD on Jan 9, 2009 11:51 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I was happy to see that NJ lost last night.

by hockeyjenn on Jan 9, 2009 11:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Me too – and shutout no less. I read today that they’ve been shutout on home ice four times this year. They apparently play better on the road…

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by FrankD on Jan 9, 2009 12:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

If the Pens were in the west with their record, they’d be in 8th – still over the hump. There’s no real contribution to that statement – I’m just saying.

Let's go Pens!

by JDunman on Jan 9, 2009 1:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

     OK, if this is a chance to vent, then here I go.
     First, something inside me makes me wonder if the players are trying to get MT fired. Therrien has a temper and has been known to call players out in the media. Add to this the constant juggling of lines, and maybe the youngsters have had enough of it and feel it is time for him to go. I would hate to think this. For better or worse, these guys are supposed to be professionals, and if they think it is time for a change, there are other ways to go about it other than embarrassing yourself in front of your fans. But there is absolutely, positively no reason or excuse for a team with this kind of talent to be playing this way, and I just wonder if something is going on behind the scenes.
     I am not a Therrien fan, but I don’t think he is the problem. After all, he was behind the bench last season and we know how that went.
     Something has to change NOW, but I don’t believe a coaching change will do any good with half the season already gone. It would probably take at least 20 games for a new coach to incorporate his system to the point where the players are comfortable with it, and by that time, this season would almost be in the books, at least mathematically.
     Also, there were times in last night’s game (and certainly in some of the others during this awful streak) when the Pens looked to be in total disarray, especially on the power(less) play. They don’t set up and they run around the ice firing pucks everywhere but toward the net. On a few of the power plays last night, it actually looked like the Preds were the ones with the man advantage.
     Satan almost made me puke on one of the power plays when he took the puck alone in the slot and skated, and skated, and skated, and skated with it until the the players on both teams and the fans were asleep. Then he wound up behind the net and absolutely nothing resulted from it. There is plenty of blame to go around on the PP, but stuff like that makes me want to put my foot through the t.v.
     All that said, maybe the boys just need to hitch up their shorts and get to work. As I said, there’s just too much talent on this team to give up and watch the season go up in smoke.

by Creamer'sHead on Jan 9, 2009 3:04 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I’d like to think that as hockey players, but above all competitors, they wouldn’t dog it on the ice just to get their coach fired. I’m pretty sure Sid would not stand for that and I bet it would be like forming a coup just to put something like that in motion.

I know that Satan play you’re talking about. I thought the same, but in the end was just grateful he hung onto the puck. He probably could’ve unloaded a shot or two from the slot but like you said – just kept skating and skating and…

Firing Therrien would more or less, in my mind at least, stand as the white flag on the season. A new coach implementing a new system (or trying to manage the existing one) will not happen overnight. There’s also always a chance that whatever coach came in midseason can do a crappy job and the team would in turn be without a coach again in June.

I really wish I could find out what’s going on through Shero’s head. Is he worried? Looking? Threatening Therrien? Who knows. Alls I know is, like you said, these guys have to wake up. They basically have to win at least 23 – 25 games to even run a good chance of qualifying for the playoffs. We’re looking at a 23-17, 25-15 record from here on out. (courtesy of Mirtle) I say let’s get down to business.

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by FrankD on Jan 9, 2009 3:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Mario and Jagr got Scottie Bowman fired. SCOTT EFFING BOWMAN. So I’m pretty sure if Sid and Co wanted Therrien fired there are more diplomatic ways of getting it done. I think the losses of Roberts and Malone are taking their toll here. I don’t think they lost a ton on the ice, but they certainly lost something in the lockerroom when those two left town.

by PensFan024 on Jan 9, 2009 3:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

thank you Mario and Jaromir!

(that’s me speaking as a wings fan, of course)

by ahtrap on Jan 9, 2009 4:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Good point. And now that you mention a guy like Roberts, who do the Pens have this year as a veteran leader? No one really. A lot of people have ragged on Sid for being the young captain that he is, but maybe this is what they meant. Prime place for a vet to step up and pull these ‘kids’ together and the Pens don’t have it.

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by FrankD on Jan 9, 2009 4:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I just noticed that you labeled my picture on this post. Not my finest hour.

Let's go Pens!

by JDunman on Jan 9, 2009 4:26 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

haha I was wondering how long it would take you to notice

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by FrankD on Jan 9, 2009 4:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The hard part for me is trying to figure out the problem here. This team didn’t lose that much on the ice. Roberts (when he was healthy), Laraque (when he wasn’t in the penalty box), and Malone. Malone is the only real talent loss here. We didn’t have Hossa till the trade deadline, so he isn’t a factor. We are missing Gonchar, but I find it hard to believe he is the key to all this. Sure, he would provide veteran leadership, and maybe that’s all that’s missing. However, my problem with that is that these “kids” have to grow up at some point. They’ve had a couple years with older guys showing them how it’s done, now’s the time to step up.

I don’t think a coaching change is the answer. I do think Shero might need to question if Therrien’s constant line shuffling is the right move. I do like Therrien, and I liked how he would shuffle lines occasionally last year to shake things loose. But now it seems like he’s not letting players get settled in with their linemates.

Honestly, what I think the team needs is this all-star break to hold some practices where they just go back to basics. If they’re gonna play like amateurs, they should practice like them. Do drills pee-wee players do. Skate sprints and “suicides” (I don’t know what the drill is called but it’s goal line to blue line and back, goal line to red line and back, etc…). For damn sure the conditioning wouldn’t hurt them at all.

I’m not sure what the problem is, but it seems to be there are a few things that could be done to figure it out.

by TrueBluePSU on Jan 9, 2009 9:24 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Can't figure it out either.

Now, I’m just a very recent hockey fan, and I’m still slow with the rules and whatever goes on in hockey and what not.
But having seen Penguins in the SC finals left a huge impression on me, and had my fervor for the Penguins going.
I honestly didn’t expect that they would do THIS bad this season. Didn’t they start off great??
My simple thoughts on this:
1. I don’t think a coach change will do any good, for reasons everyone seems to agree on.
2. I’ve no clue what the hell is going on in the games!!
3. Thought the Thrashers = Trash game would’ve boosted up the team’s confidence and get out there to play hockey.
I’m not sure how they’ll get back in the game and play great hockey, seeing as I’m still somewhat unfamiliar with the sport.

Still though, with them losing these games, I find that I support them even more? Haha, dunno, but that just seems the way it is. Must be frustration that’s fueling the loooove, haha.

“They basically have to win at least 23 – 25 games to even run a good chance of qualifying for the playoffs. We’re looking at a 23-17, 25-15 record from here on out. I say let’s get down to business.”
— Oh god, that just really has me depressed reading that lol
Has the Penguins ever pulled off getting into the playoffs after having a bad season like this? lol
Please tell me they have!
Or else lie to me and say that they have >_<
lol

Anyways, I’ll keep on supporting them! I love them!
Go PENGUINS! Woo! lol! <3

by AppleSweetRose on Jan 10, 2009 2:22 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs