Things to analyze: Which Penguins line is producing the most?

by FrankD on Oct 13, 2009 2:31 PM EDT Comment 25 comments

If there's one thing you can take from last night's game against the Senators, other than the win, two points and another great performance form Marc-Andre Fleury in net, it's that the Penguins' depth is really coming up big. At times I feel a lot of teams going up against the Pens think there are really two keys to victory. 1) Shut down Crosby and Malkin and 2) Rough them up. Tyler Kennedy proved #1 wrong last night and the previous wins over Toronto and Philly put #2 to rest as well. As evidenced from Pittsburgh's 5-1 record it's not nearly that simple. After the jump, let's take a look at how each line is performing as just one of the four pistons driving this offense.

Chris Kunitz (0g-3a) - Sidney Crosby (4g-1a) - Bill Guerin (2g-2a)
Combined: 6 goals, 6 assists, 12 pts

Ruslan Fedotenko (1g-2a) - Evgeni Malkin (2g-5a) - Jordan Staal (3g-1a)
Combined: 6 goals, 8 assists, 14 pts

Matt Cooke (1g, 2a) - Tyler Kennedy (4g, 1a) - Pascal Dupuis(0g, 0a)
Combined: 5 goals, 3 assists, 8 pts

Michael Rupp (0g, 1a) - Eric Godard (0g, 0a) -Caig Adams (0g, 2a)
Combined: 0 goals, 3 assists, 3 pts and 38 PIM

Admittedly you can't expect big numbers from the fourth line. And frankly I didn't even know where to place Pascal Dupuis since opening lines often show him on the second but he slowly makes his way down to the third and sometimes the fourth as the game progresses. So mix him in wherever you like, but it hardly changes things. I will say though, if you keep the third line of Cooke, Kennedy and Staal intact as it's often written on paper (although in last night's Staal goal he was on ice with Rupp and Adams), they are tied with Line 1 for top-scoring line on the team. To get that production from your third line speaks volumes about this team.

I don't think it's healthy to ask whether it's worth mixing these lines up just yet. After all, there really is no reason to risk either line's chemistry.

Have you been happy with the looks of these lines so far? Is there anything you think the Penguins can afford to change for the better without risking it all as a whole? Let's see what you guys and gals have to say.

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Something must be done about Dupuis…

by ipenguin67 on Oct 13, 2009 2:55 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

AGREED!!!

by Ulf Murphy on Oct 13, 2009 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

They are 5-1, why must something be done? If they can keep winning with the line up they have until Talbot comes back I don’t see a need to do something about stone hands.

by PensFan024 on Oct 13, 2009 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Why not use the time to “season” a Tangradi, Caputi or Borque. I feel that Dupuis is only on the team becasue nobody would take him in a trade, (Would you for $1.4mm?) he is guaranteed his money (no two-way deal), and is a servicable penalty killer (#5 forward at best, since Sid is working #2 PK with Adams). This is purely a cap move on Shero’s part. Why else?

by Ulf Murphy on Oct 13, 2009 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dupuis plays very well on the PK, Borque is a 13th-14th forward on a team, and Tangradi has been playing pro hockey for a month.

Keep it as it is for now.

by RCheli on Oct 13, 2009 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed. Dupuis is wholly unfit for that line. Put him on fourth with Adams and Rupp, and if you’re willing to break up that third line that’s so dominant, put Bourque on the third wing and give him a chance to develop. The guy’s had steady growth as a player over the last five years, but this is the perfect scenario for him to develop into an everyday NHL guy.

Doop can still clock PK minutes as a fourth-liner.

Once Talbot’s back, you have your regular top three lines, and you can get into fourth line discussions with Chris as the fill-in guy if one of your top six wings is a scratch for some reason.

Winterion Game Studios
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by winterion on Oct 14, 2009 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The Pens had a good start last year too… why wait till it’s too late?

by ipenguin67 on Oct 13, 2009 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If it ain’t broke don’t fix it. They are 5-1. Tied for first in the league. There is nothing to complain about. I understand that there is always room for improvement but until they start loosing because of Dupes just let it be.

by PensFan024 on Oct 14, 2009 8:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I like to call that something

Max Talbot.

by Phantaskippy on Oct 14, 2009 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Kunitz-Crosby-Guerin
Tank-Geno-Staal
Cooke-Adams-TK
Rupp-Godard-Dupuis

You can plug dupuis in another line from time to time (after a pp for example) and just keep the 4th line minutes a bit down. Those 3 lines there seem some of the deepest in the league.

There is a knack to flying: it's learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.

by Sid the captain on Oct 13, 2009 3:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Think so too… only with Godard out for most nights:)

You have to see it for yourself...

by Bla Razor on Oct 13, 2009 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

that third line looks stronger when you put Staal in there. I know he plays with Malkin every once in a while, but isn’t he the third line C? or am I missing something?

by AronV on Oct 13, 2009 4:48 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Bylsma is really starting to put Staal out there as a wild card. I like it though. As long as he keeps posting up goals like he’s been doing lately (and that sick power move against Emery) I’m all for it.

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by FrankD on Oct 13, 2009 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Indeed, we even saw a malkin-crosby-staal pp line against ottowa. if that line clicks it would be a scary pp line imo.

And yeah Staal usually starts out on 3C but each game he gets some shifts with malkin, and he’s much more effective there then dupuis. And Adams is a beast on the third line aswel ( see TK goals against philly and Ottawa)

There is a knack to flying: it's learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.

by Sid the captain on Oct 13, 2009 6:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Who cares???

As long as the Pens are rolling, who cares. Go Pens!!!! Get well Max Talbot!!

by utah pens fan on Oct 13, 2009 6:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

staal

i love the way as the game goes on that bylsma is putting staal out there with fedotenko and malkin, seeing how staal scored 29 goals while playing with geno, and i really like the adams cooke kennedy line cuz it is full of energy and they produced 2 goals last night…i love the way we r playing right now

by jamesharrison92 on Oct 13, 2009 8:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

...

i also think borque provides alot more out there then godard…we have enough tough guys out there like rupp and orpik..and guys like tk adams gueirin and letang hold there own very well too..o yeah and cooke

by jamesharrison92 on Oct 13, 2009 8:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Admittedly I haven’t seen Bourque play outside of that one game. I’d be interested in seeing him out there again and don’t think taking Godard out of the lineup in favor of Bourque is much of a loss. Granted the Pens needed Godard against Toronto and Philly but I think he can take a seat against the Canes.

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by FrankD on Oct 14, 2009 12:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Interesting take, putting Godard in the lineup for goon-heavy teams and Bourque in the lineup for more skill-based opposition. I’m not sure Chris is a great fourth-line fit, but he’s a better start. Very good skater, sound defensive awareness, great stickhandling.. you’d actually have a legit shooter coming out of the cycle, or whatever it is the Pens fourth line does when they get a modicum of offensive pressure.

Winterion Game Studios
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by winterion on Oct 14, 2009 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree, I don’t know why they keep throwing Godard out there. He hasn’t been doing much. It’s not like our skill guys aren’t tough.

by ipenguin67 on Oct 13, 2009 11:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Yes, they are tough. But I think you would want Godard out there against the likes of Colton Orr and all. I like the fact that Staal is getting some minutes with Malkin and Adams seemed great centering the third line the other night.

by nut1976 on Oct 14, 2009 12:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It’s not like our skill guys aren’t tough.

I really think that was the thought surrounding the team when all those offseason rumors surrounding a Godard/Dupuis package deal sorta trade surfaced. Adams can scrap a bit as we’ve already seen. Rupp can…take a beating. McKee is also ready and willing to drop the mitts and Guerin is that all-around sorta player. The Pens can afford to keep Godard out of the lineup

Follow the Penguins on SBN @ Pensburgh.com and twitter.

by FrankD on Oct 14, 2009 12:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I’m not sure why everyone is hating on Dupuis. Sure, he has put up zero points; but I also see him in games doing the slogging work when he’s out there. He’s manning a good forecheck, fighting for pucks along the boards, little stuff that doesn’t show up on the stat sheet, but certainly needs to be done by someone. Yes, those are roles that may best be served on a third or fourth line, but there is something to say for line chemistry and, right now, the third line definitely has it.

That being said, I don’t think there is much of a need to change the starting lines just for appearances sake. Disco Dan has shown the ability to change lines on the fly during a game. We’ve seen Staal on the 2nd with Geno, we’ve also seen him skating on the 4th. My point is, the lines should be, and very much are under Bylsma, fluid, but in a good way. He reacts and adapts to in=game situations.

by TrueBluePSU on Oct 14, 2009 12:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Dupuis deserves the scrutiny because he is overpaid, underproducing, and a roadblock to developing players. I don’t hate the guy, but he is expendable. This season is too long to rest on our laurels and expect this team to win 5 of every 6 the rest of the way. Teams that make bold moves now, and removing Dupuis is hardly bold, set themselves up for greater success. Remember last year’s decline after a great start?

It was rumored that Shero has had Dupuis on the block since the moment we lost the Cup to Detroit two years ago, but there have been no takers for good reason. Why would you pay $1.4mm a season for an energy guy that can’t score? Adams is cheaper. Goddard is cheaper. Rupp is cheaper. Who would you rather have? Heck, I would have rather they kept Zigomanis.

by Ulf Murphy on Oct 14, 2009 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dupes probably has more career goals that those three put together. He plays a valuable role on the PK. He is reliable defensively and fast enough to keep up with Malkin. He has no goals this year. So what? Kennedy currently leads the team in goals. I guess Kennedy should be playing on the first line, move over Kunitz (Kunitz another player receiving undeserved critisism.). Brent Johnson has a better GAA that MAF. See ya later Marc your just not doing well enough this year. Gonchar and Geno are a -5 and -1 respectively. Put em on the trading block Shero. That is, if there are any takers of course. It’s way too early to start making judgments like this. Let the boys play. If someone’s not holding their weight then I’m sure Bylsma will move them down or out.

by PensFan024 on Oct 15, 2009 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs