How about a little love for Chris Kunitz?
by FrankD on Oct 16, 2009 8:15 AM EDT
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I doubt I'm alone in this assumption so I'm just gonna throw it out there - is it just me, or are a lot of people getting on Chris Kunitz's case early on in the season?
Kunitz, a member of the first line alongside Sidney Crosby and Bill Guerin, is expected to put up some good numbers this year. And why not? I mean, look who his linemates are. But in light of his early struggle, if you even want to call it that, we have to look at the big picture.
We've spent the past few days analyzing and praising the Penguins' depth. Chris Kunitz, despite not lighting up the scoreboard, is just as much a factor in that term as any. Some see a guy on a scoring drought. I see a guy hitting everything that moves. Some see a guy who can't find the net. I see a guy who's led his teammate to the net four times.
And hey, was his shootout winner against the Canes not a thing of beauty?
The Post-Gazette printed an article the day before the Canes game more or less calling Kunitz out for his lack of offensive production. From where I see it the attack is somewhat cryptic. It's done in that sorta way where you give two positives and finish on a negative.
Example (which in this case is actually one negative followed by two positives):
If scoring goals was his sole, or even primary, duty on that line, Kunitz likely would have been replaced long ago. But because he does so much, and because his scoring problems are not costing the Penguins points, he apparently will get more time to start scoring again.
Dave Molinari
Post-Gazette
My soapbox may not compare to that of a city's newspaper or I may not have the established credibility of an award-winning sports journalist, but I think a little background on Kunitz and his career can help clear up some of this...anticipation.
Linemates aside, it took Kunitz seven games with last year's Anaheim squad to record his first point, an assist against Toronto on October 21. This actually kicked off a streak of 10 points in 10 games. He didn't pick up his first goal until four days later, the ninth game of the season, in a 6-4 win over the Canadiens.
Now let's compare it to this season.
Kunitz picked up his first point (assist) of the season against the Flyers, the third game of the season. He's since been on a four-game point streak and netted the game-winning goal in Wednesday's shootout. He's still looking for that first goal.
I can only imagine the pressure that exists for any player skating alongside Crosby. I really don't think you can measure a player's success (or failures) in goal totals. Would I like to see him pop a few more? Hell yeah. Who wouldn't?
I think Molinari said it best in that same article:
But the bottom line is, well, the bottom line, and it has been awfully good for the Penguins since Kunitz was added to their personnel mix in the trade that sent defenseman Ryan Whitney to Anaheim Feb. 26. They went 15-2-3 down the stretch after acquiring him, earned the franchise's third Stanley Cup in the months that followed and are off to a 5-1 start in 2009-10.
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fans and goals
Just observing the start of the season, it seems like—appears to me, gives the impression—Pens fans judge a player’s worth by the number of goals he scores. I have to admit we are spoiled b/c of Crosby and Malkin, but for them to do their jobs there are players who have to be doing other jobs, like digging out the puck along the boards, checking opponents, opening up the lane and so on. Kunitz is doing all of that so….I do not understand the…I hate to use this word…panic???
Kunitz is not the problem
Kunitz is first and foremost an agitator. And not in a fighting sense. He works hard along the boards, stirs up trouble in front of the net and more or less creates extra space for crosby and guerin to do their thing. He also is more than able to hold his own on fast tape-to-tape passes that have been a hallmark for the pens of late. Of course it would it be bad if he scored more, but hes hitting the score sheet every night point or not.
Now Pascal Dupuis on the other hand…
Everyone is missing the point....
The argument has been around for a while now, and it’s clear how it breaks down. From a skill perspective, Kunitz is somewhere between below average and average. From a guts and grit and physicality perspective, he’s above average. Depending on your appreciation towards either of those attributes, you’ll either love or hate Kunitz. I believe the majority of Penguins fans (me included) love the skill. I mean, I grew up with the 90s Penguins.
That being said…I think EVERYONE IS MISSING THE POINT….
It comes down to value. And in that department, Chris Kunitz is a costly liability, and there are very serious consequences around the corner. Does everyone realize that Kunitz has a 3.75 MILLION dollar cap hit this year, and a 4 MILLION dollar cap hit next year? Do you know what that means? We are probably going to lose either Letang or Gonchar next year because of it. If instead of Kunitz we had, I don’t know, one of another 100 NHL wingers that could produce more for less money, we’d be able to keep Gonchar AND Letang. I believe Ray Shero’s plan is simple. Strong down the middle with Sid, Geno, Staal, and Flower…no holes in your defensive corps, and a bunch of role playing wingers. It works. It is proven. However, at the end of the day, Chris Kunitz’s contract may force the Penguins away from that formula…and I do believe the Pens can very easily become mediocre once a few core pieces (see Gonchar’s absence last year) are removed.
What gets me really passionate about this issue is that I think Kris Letang is one of the most gifted players I have ever seen at defensemen. Ever wonder why when a Penguin gets crushed, it is invariably Kris Letang? Why, because when he is one the ice, he is everywhere. Getting crushed in the corner, jumping up in a 3 on 2, racing back on defense, at the bottom of a pile getting his finger chewed off, participating in the shootout, on the power play, on the penalty kill, EVERYWHERE. If he leaves town because Chris Kunitz’s bad contract, I will be very sorely disappointed. The only good thing I will say about Kunitz is that his wife is pretty hot. :)
Cap hits can’t change within one contract so that argument makes no sense, but even then Kunitz is a proven 20+ goal scorer, he had a very slow start last year and ended up with 23 goals. So i’m not worrying here, those goals will come. Have some faith in Ray Shero, the man is a magician, if anyone can resign both Gonch and Letang it’s him. And Kuni is everywhere aswel: That big hit on Letang the other night: Some time later he got Ruutu back hard for that. SO? GWG against Carolina, nuff said. He can skate with crosby, that pass on the tic-tac-toe to guerin showed that he can do something with a sick pass like that. I don’t get the hate. Even if he keeps this pace we’ll have a guy that scores around 50 pointswhile battling hard, creating space for Bing and Billy. Thats what this pens team needs: Hard working wingers that contribute some offence but mainly work for our insanely good centerman.
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by Sid the captain on Oct 16, 2009 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions
And in that department, Chris Kunitz is a costly liability, and there are very serious consequences around the corner. Does everyone realize that Kunitz has a 3.75 MILLION dollar cap hit this year, and a 4 MILLION dollar cap hit next year?
That’s simply not true. The cap hit is the total money divided by the total years. It doesn’t fluctuate from year to year. For instance, Crosby and Geno will make $9 million the first few years of their contracts and then make $7.5 million but the cap hit is a stable $8.7 million, since that’s the average of the deal over the life of the contract.
Similarly, Kunitz has a flat cap-hit of $3.725 million through the 2011-12 season. That’s his average amount paid.
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by Hooks Orpik on Oct 16, 2009 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions
What gets me really passionate about this issue is that I think Kris Letang is one of the most gifted players I have ever seen at defensemen
So you’re worried the Pens will lost Letang because of Kunitz’s salary? I think you’re too nervous. Unless Letang demands a long term deal worth $4-5 million a year, the Pens should be able to fit him in.
Don’t forget, only two NHL caliber defensemen are signed for next season (Orpik and Goligoski). Shero will make moves to round it out, and of course Letang’s in the plans.
I wouldn’t think Kunitz “sucks” for his salary. He plays well down in the corners, throws out thunderous hits and does a lot of the dirty work to give Sidney Crosby more room. Kunitz is a little over-paid for what he brings to the table, sure, but that’s the hand we’re dealt.
I think if the Penguins still had Ryan Whitney had his long-term $4 million a year contract that would be a bigger hurdle towards retaining Letang.
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by Hooks Orpik on Oct 16, 2009 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Clearly, it was contract mistake for contract mistake in that trade. We had depth at D, and needed more depth at wing.
And I’ve heard the ‘dirty work in the corners’ and ‘big hits’ argument. By that logic, Matt Cooke should be due 5 million next year. Because he does all of that AND kills penalties. The BEST way to create more space for Sid, is to have someone that is dangerous when they shoot on the ice with him. That is NOT Kuni. He’s only dangerous when there is a juicy rebound sitting on the doorstep.
by KunitzSucks on Oct 16, 2009 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions
And I’ve heard the ‘dirty work in the corners’ and ‘big hits’ argument. By that logic, Matt Cooke should be due 5 million next year. Because he does all of that AND kills penalties.
Oh come on, Kunitz does score. He’s scored 44 goals, 63 assists since the beginning of 2007-08 season compared to 24g +33 for Cooke. Kunitz does the small things right but he has the skill to be productive.
Kunitz has been a reliable and consistent 25 goal, 30 assist guy over the past 3 seasons. Is that worth $3.75 million? Probably not. But add that production to the “little things” that CK brings to the table and it’s he’s hardly an anchor. He’s a productive member of the team.
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by Hooks Orpik on Oct 16, 2009 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions
When we are winning, people are going to be more inclined to say that he’s ‘productive’. If we start losing, the magnifying glass will go right to him. Rightfully so.
He’s the ‘Roger Dorn’ of hockey. If any of you have seen the movie ‘Major League’ you’ll know what I’m talking about.
Lou Brown (Indians Manager): “I thought you said you didn’t have any high priced talent?”
Charlie Donovon (Indians GM) “Forget about Dorn because he’s only high priced.”
Lou: “Still hits the ball alright doesn’t he?”
Charlie: “Yeah, he just can’t field it.”
That’s Kuni in a nutshell. Just can’t score.
Also…let’s remember, his goal drought isn’t over yet!! He scored a shootout goal and was chosen to go after 3 defensemen. Although…that’s more a testament to how skilled our d’men are though. :)
by KunitzSucks on Oct 16, 2009 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Kinda off topic, but were you a Colby Armstrong fan? If so, and ignoring the salary details, how can you not like Kunitz? They both play similar games. Kunitz may not have the locker room presence of Armstrong but he’s definitely an upgrade in the skills department.
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What’s the contract $$ now on Armstrong? I think Guerin and Army are cheaper combined than Kuni. Which would you rather have? As far as skills…hrm…I’m interested to hear how his skills are better. Army had better numbers over the last half of the season last year playing with less ice time and far inferior centers in Atlanta.
by KunitzSucks on Oct 16, 2009 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions
That’s Kuni in a nutshell. Just can’t score.
Since the lockout:
2005-06: 19 goals, 22 assists = 41 points
2006-07: 25 goals, 35 assists = 60 points
2007-08: 21 goals, 29 assists = 50 points
2008-09: 23 goals, 30 assists = 53 points (with two teams)
Kunitz can score. He’s gonna score about 25 goals and 30 assists over the course of the season. Expect a lot more and you’ll be disappointed (though I’d think playing with a talented playmaker like Crosby ought to help).
Pensburgh.com -- it's like the Max Talbot of blogs*
*not just because we only work for 12 minutes a night
by Hooks Orpik on Oct 16, 2009 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions
Obviously, when people start running out of positive things to say about a player, they roll out the proverbial: “He does the little things right” or the “He creates spaces for other guys”. Really? How By skating with his head down until he runs into another player and hopefully becomes entangled with them for 20 seconds created an ostensible 4 on 4 for a shift? I’ve seen that move out of Ruutu for years.
And what does that mean for Max Talbot? How does that translate…..“Max, well, he just does all the BIG things right.”.
Chris, if you are reading, I need one of two things….more goal production, or a picture of your wife in a bikini. Either way, I’m happy. LOL.
And yes, he does fit Bylsma’s system. No argument there. But there are cheaper, younger, more skilled players that fit that description EVERYWHERE around the league.
by KunitzSucks on Oct 16, 2009 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions
What gets me really passionate about this issue is that I think Kris Letang is one of the most gifted players I have ever seen at defensemen.
Letang is gifted but I still think he plays too hot and cold for $4 mill a year, which is exactly what he’s looking for next year. I’m not saying he’s a bad defenseman by any means, but I really think he has to play like he’s worth that money. Plus, Gonchar’s contract talks are being put off until January and I’m sure Letang’s is in that boat as well.
Now you might argue Kunitz isn’t worth the same $, which is exactly what you did. Kunitz is the epitome of Dan Bylsma’s system. He’s tough on the forecheck, rough in the corners and will get his goals when things start clicking for him. Like Sid The Captain said above, he also creates space for Crosby out there. Sid’s “new stick” that we keep hearing about can’t possibly be the only reason he’s shooting more.
I think we’ll have the “real” answer to this all by the end of the season. Will I be wrong for saying Kunitz is still an asset if he only has 20 goals? I don’t think so. A lot of guys on the pens will hit the market next year as free agents. If Sid and Kunitz work a decent line together I’ll be happy knowing it’s still intact.
Your point is that Kuntiz isn’t worth the money and that he’s replaceable, my point is that people are drawing this conclusion already based on only four months of post-trade deadline hockey. He looked good when he first came to the Pens. He and Sid showed some good chemistry, so you can’t deny its presence.
Thanks for stopping by and sharing your two cents. I do appreciate well-thought-out, opposing views.
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If Letang develops more consistency, which he will over the next year or two, he will start to get Norris consideration. He will need Gonch’s spot on the PP though to get the point production the media feels is so crucial to that trophy (which I disagree). A season ending injury to Lidstrom or Chara would help too. :)
by KunitzSucks on Oct 16, 2009 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree to some extent with your reasoning about the salary situation. There’s no market for 4 mil players who can’t score goals, especially with the most complete center in the game. Still, Kunitz is effective at setting things up and is still better than almost all of Crosby’s other linemates to this point. Also, Tyler Kennedy leads the team in goals…so it’s still very early in the season. Kunitz has shown to be a streaky scorer. Remember the torrid pace he set for himself when he was first traded to the team – yes, I realize the death valley dirge that followed through the playoffs, but he seems to get hot and pot a few every so often. At least he is being somewhat productive in creating space and assisting on goals for Billy and Sid. Compared to Oopsy-Dupsy, who takes every opportunity to demonstrate his hands of stone, Kunitz is at least being effective at something more than providing energy. Is it worth 4 mil? We’ll have to see if he has a hot streak. If it goes another 10 games or so, change is in the air.
And that’s all I’m saying. Value. If we lose Gonchar or Letang, both of whom I believe are crucial pieces to the Pens Dynasty, there will a drop off…and then, the Kunitz hate will really amp up.
The writing is on the wall. The Gonchar contract talks are off until January so Ray can get an idea of how much cap room we will have, or, more likely, pick who he wanted to keep. Things are really tight against the cap, and we have almost no wiggle room. The Kunitz situation will/could slowly become similar to the Nylander situation in Washington. That being said…I hope Kuni goes out there are racks up a 4 game goal streak to get back on track and makes me change my screen name. But he won’t…and we’ll just keep staring out watches waiting for Tangradi to be ready and for Talbot to come back.
by KunitzSucks on Oct 16, 2009 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions
um . . .
If Gonchar is a crucial piece to the Pens dynasty, we are screwed already. He’s 35, and (great as he is) not an Iron Man. Do you really think he’s going to play at this level for another decade?
And I like Letang as well, but I don’t think I see what you see. You’re making him sound like Jay Bouwmeester or Scott Neidermayer. He might play at that level one day, but I haven’t seen it yet.
P is for Latrobe.
by holiday park on Oct 16, 2009 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions
way too early to worry
My gut feeling is that, on a line with Crosby and Guerin (and some time on the 2nd PP), Kunitz will finish the regular season with somewhere around 30 goals. Let’s try to remember that he has 74 more games in which to do this. Drawing conclusions on his ability to contribute offensively based on 7 games is silly.
And, as others have pointed out, Kunitz is one of those guys that can contribute even if he’s not scoring. He works his tail off every game, he’s not afraid of the physical game, and he tends to do all the little things right. Guys like this are vital for a team that hopes to win championships.
P is for Latrobe.
It’s not the 7 regular season games…It was the entire 24 game post season last year!! Hey, if you want to mail it in for 82 games like Feds and Talbot, but bring your A-game come playoffs, I have no problem at all with that. But he’s not.
by KunitzSucks on Oct 16, 2009 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Maybe he did only have 1 goal in the playoffs, but his 13 assists add up to 13 goals either way you look at it. They may not be in his goal column but they still went onto the board as goals. Like I said in the post, I’d love to see him score more. But right now I really don’t think it’s justified to get on his case for having four points in seven games. Hes off to a better start this year than he was last.
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Sid does not need wingers that get assists from merely being on the ice while he is…that’s what those assists are…nothing more. The tic-tac-toe to Guerin the other night was beautiful, but didn’t bear fruit. If we saw plays like that every other game, I’d be more optimistic…but I’m not.
by KunitzSucks on Oct 16, 2009 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions
This was the same argument made against Tenks last year. He fills his role and satisfies management. End of story.
Tenks is a machine in the playoffs. We found that out first hand, and that’s why we took him back. That and he was dirt cheap, less that HALF than that of Kunitz. Again, would you rather have 2 Feds or one Kunitz. Value value value. You are very right…they are comparable players production wise. Even If he was making 4 million, because of his clutch play in the post season, I wouldn’t complain, but would still state that we could do better at that position.
by KunitzSucks on Oct 16, 2009 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions
Well…any winger on the ice with Sid or Geno is going to get points. They are the two best playmakers in the world. Just like Mario turned Kevin Stevens and Rob Brown into household names, we should see more than 20-25 goals out of Kunitz. The whole point in having Sid and Geno contractually locked down is because, in theory (Ray’s Shero’s theory I’m sure), is that we can put any run of the mill wingers out there and get 25-30 goals. But at 4 mill, we’re not getting anything near what we paid for.
Perhaps the most important thing not being mentioned is that SID IS HAPPY. The inmates have long run the asylum in Pittsburgh and now with Mario at the helm even more so. If Sid didn’t want Kunitz on his line he wouldn’t be there.
Not to be completely negative in this thread (i’m usually really positive), but then why was Army (arguably Sids best friend and linemate) shipped to Atlanta?
by KunitzSucks on Oct 16, 2009 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Very true….by the way, any know what Angelo Exposedsito is up to?
by KunitzSucks on Oct 16, 2009 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Ugh, Espo. I wasn’t big on him when they drafted him either. I wanted to think positive but a player doesn’t drop that far in draft rankings without a reason.
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You could try pitching him to Edmonton Toronto the KHL Switzerland?
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Trade for Morosov….I haven’t seen that guy in years…let’s see if he’s still got it. ;)
by KunitzSucks on Oct 16, 2009 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions
And he’s not afraid to scrap either. Anyone remember that huge bench-clearing brawl video to come out of Russia last season? (or was that two years ago?)
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Morozov’s still got the character but I don’t know if he’s got the skill and endurance for the NHL… I watched him at the worlds and in some games in the KHL, where he’s the captain of his team and he’s developed to be a real leader (in point production and off the ice)… I think he’s alright there and very unlikely to go to the NHL again
You have to see it for yourself...
I still like the Koon, but....
….I really feel we should put Kunitz on the third line with Staal, and move TK up to the first to play with Sid.
I am concerned about keeping Sid happy. This is all speculation, obviously, but I’m sure just finishing in the top 20 in scoring isn’t good enough for Sid. If the Pens are winning, he will never say anything, because that’s what is important to him. Right now, Sid isn’t putting up his usual “Sid Points” and I think having TK on his line could help. Also, Sid and TK have shown some chemistry in the past, as have Kunitz and Staal.
The Penguins are winning, so I am not worried about changing anything. But I just want to keep the stars happy, too.
I have been much happier with what Bylsma has done with the lines. He tinkers, tries different things. Theirren just pulled them out of hat I think. :) I’m sure there will be a situation where TK and Sid will play together, let’s just hope it isn’t because of injuries. We overpay Kunitz as it is, if he’s hurt, it’s even worse.
by KunitzSucks on Oct 16, 2009 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Kinda off-topic but relative – if the Pens called up Tangradi, or if he’s cracks the top two lines next season, would it at least justify the Kunitz trade as far as you’re concerned?
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I’ve made no secret of my dislike for Kunitz, but we in no way got the shaft in that deal with Anaheim. It was a good deal even if it was Kunitz for Whitney straight up. Whitney is the defensemen equivalent of Kunitz (almost the same contract structure as well). I thought it was really fair deal. If we get anything decent out of Tangradi, it’s a plus for the Pens.
Yes, I think the trade was a great one, Whitney’s long-term (slightly overpaid imo) contract was moved and we got one winger for now and one for later… the Pens already used the one for now as well as they could… they won the cup after all:)
With all that said I’m also sharing the opinion that the Pens should dump Kunitz’s contract this year… nothing against the way he plays… just too much money on the book…
You have to see it for yourself...
I was never much a fan of Whitney. He came off as soft and couldn’t hit a shadow. When the Pens upped him to $5 mill per I think it was more out of hope than anything else. I think they tried to justify the money in that sorta “Well, we’re paying you good money now. Start playing better” way. It didn’t work.
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I don’t think anyone doesn’t think that Kunitz is overpaid. But would the Pens have won the Stanley Cup with Ryan Whitney playing 20 minutes a night last year? Is Eric Tangradi not the Pens’ best prospect?
I also don’t remember all the complains about Kunitz when he scored 7 goals (18 points) in 20 games to end the season last year.
NOT EVERY PLAYER IS CROSBY! NOT EVERY PLAYER IS MALKIN! Or Jagr or Lemieux or Francis or Murphy…
Kunitz is what he is. He’s a guy that can play on PK and PP, made a couple of great passes in the playoffs last year, and so far has been snakebit this season.
Chris Kunitz scored 7 goals, 18 points in 20 games for the Penguins last year. That’s pretty good production, but it’s well above his career numbers.
Chris Kunitz has scored 0 goals, 4 assists in 7 games for the Penguins this year. That’s not terrible at all, but one of them was a secondary assist, so if you aren’t a big fan of those (I’m on the fence, personally), then there’s that.
People say that it doesn’t matter that Kunitz isn’t scoring goals because other players are and the Penguins are winning. There are two problems with that idea: two of the wins have come in shootouts—a few years ago those wouldn’t have been wins at all; the other problem is that those other players are going to have dry spells. If Kunitz isn’t scoring goals, then there will be problems.
If you’re paying a guy almost $4M per, then he’s either putting pucks in the net, one of the better D-men in the league, or getting his contract bought out. Or he’s Michael Nylander. He’s not a grinder.
Justin, are you recommending moving him to defensemen and putting Goligoski on the wing?!?!? LOL.
New Poll Question: Who will score first: Eaton, Orpik, Duper, Mario, or Kunitz? My money is on Eaton. ;)
by KunitzSucks on Oct 16, 2009 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Between the post season and start to the regular season: 31 games, 1 goal. That’s not snakebit. If he went to the net half as much as people gave him credit for, Sid would have banked at least two off of his skates!
You can’t equate the offseason into that. It’s that same math that made me roll my eyes the other night when the announcers said Fleury was something like 18-4-and whatever since starting the playoffs last season. Fleury’s off to an excellent start but it’s still a new season.
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It would appear that the spawn of the “Let’s get rid of Stackhouse” crowd have almost attained adolescence.
I wasn’t around for those days due to my own age, but that’s a great comment John.
If Chris Kunitz’s lack of goal production is some fan’s biggest (or loudest) complaint, I’d say we’re in pretty good shape.
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by Hooks Orpik on Oct 17, 2009 12:36 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
one more observation
Anyone remember how horribly the Pens were playing last season before they acquired Kunitz? My feeling about him was that the Pens lost a critical “glue” player when Ryan Malone left, and Kunitz slid seamlessly into that role. And yes, we pay Kunitz a good bit less than Tampa is paying Malone.
P is for Latrobe.
Right on. And remember all the people who wanted to see the Pens keep Malone (myself included)? But when I saw what Tampa was offering him I was one of the first to wave good-bye.
I hate to make the comparison, mainly because i can’t stand him as a human being OR player, but Sean Avery has that sort of effect on the Rangers too. You always hear about the Rangers’ record with him in or out of the lineup. He’s definitely not a positive factor in the locker room but I’m going by pure on-ice impact here.
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I also have a special fondness for Kunitz in that his arrival coincided with the departure of Ryan Whitney (easily my least favorite Pen of the past 3 seasons).
P is for Latrobe.
by holiday park on Oct 16, 2009 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Ryan Whitney (easily my least favorite Pen of the past 3 seasons).
Ditto.
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I haven't posted on this blog for a while, but...
All the Kunitz hate has got me riled up! Let’s not forget that it is NOT Kunitz’s number one job to score goals. He is in there to win battles in the corner, hit people, drive to the net, and set up his linemates. Hopefully, he pockets some goals while doing this, but if not, oh well. Goals can’t measure everything, especially goals in one seven game stretch.
If anyone doubts that Kunitz doing his job helps his teammates, I refer you to this post about two years ago from Battle of California: http://battleofcalifornia.blogspot.com/2007/08/kunitz-scoring-enabler-gets-extended.html
Note how playing with Kunitz significantly improves his teammates’ goal differential. I would be willing to bet you would find the same thing if you crunched the numbers on the Penguins.
go pens!
by cyroose on Oct 16, 2009 3:36 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
He’s also helped his teammates’ Cup differential as well. In Pittsburgh and Anaheim.
P is for Latrobe.
by holiday park on Oct 16, 2009 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Nice find Cyroose and happy to see you stopping in for a bit.
Good to see two separate fan bases can agree that this guy is more than just the numbers he puts up for himself, but instead for the numbers being put up around him.
If I could rec more than once I would.
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And, with the help of some new statistical metrics out there, we can quantify player’s intangibles more than ever. So it seems that not only is Kunitz likely to get around 55 points this season, he’s also making the players around him better.
Not worth $3.75 million, obviously, but not a waste of cap space like some other players (eg, Nylander, J-S Giguerge, Thomas Vokun, the guy who sits across the hall from me who’s a complete joke).
This is an absurd discussion
Kunitz is precisely the type of skater that every NHL team needs, whether in a pre or post lockout environment. When he isn’t scoring, he keeps the other guys honest. When he is — what a bonus. To suggest that he collects assists simply by being on the ice with Sid is to fundamentally misunderstand the game. Hockey is a dynamic sport. “Mere” presence on the ice often DOES have a effect. Line combinations are an integrated system. Go back 35 years and look at the role Wayne Cashman played skating alongside Esposito and Hodge. Statistically he looks a lot like Chris. Ask Espo how important Cash was.
"Never mistake motion for action." - Ernest Hemingway
I believe one of the popular quotes to come from fans of that era was, “Cash is money.”
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