Crosby vs. Malkin -- wait aren't these guys on the same team?
by Hooks Orpik on Nov 30, 2009 11:09 AM EST
60 comments
Mark Madden breaks a taboo (in his mind, at least) when he opens pandora box and dares to ask who's better, Sidney Crosby or Evgeni Malkin.
Madden, for those not fimiliar, hosts a radio show in Pittsburgh and sometimes says things for the shock factor just to get a reaction. He likes to stir the pot, one of those guys who likes controversy (it's good for ratings). Around Pensburgh there's been several debates and discussions about Sid v. Geno; who's better, who's more valuable, who would you keep if you could only keep one, etc.
Really, Madden gets it right in the middle of his article when he says:
It’s a fun argument, especially if you’re a Penguins fan. Crosby doesn’t win. Malkin doesn’t win. You win. Both play for your team, after all.
I don't get it or think it's a big deal to even have the debate. But then again, I don't see the need to have a daily update on Crosby v. Ovechkin v. Malkin; each one has superb talents and any one could be considered the best offensive player in the game considering what they do the night before.
After the jump, if you want, I'll break Sid v. Geno down; feel free to disagree in the comments
Size... Easiest category, Malkin is bigger so he naturally has a better reach. 
Faceoffs.. Second easiest category, Crosby has improved his numbers every year and is among the best.
Malkin is still a sub-.500 faceoff man, so it's a clear edge for Sid. 
Shot... Before this season it'd be a no-brainer for Malkin. Crosby's shot is noticeably better with the one-piece stick, he's going to the front of the net with authority and scoring goals at an incredible rate. Still in terms of pure shooting ability, I'd give a nod to Malkin.
Passing.. Again both have sensational talents, but Crosby's vision is probably slightly better and his passes seem to be a little more crisp.
Skating ability.. Malkin can gallop and is a strong skater, but it's almost impossible to knock Crosby off of the puck. In terms of balance, Malkin probably falls like twice a shift. Advantage Sid.
Backchecking.. Crosby is a furious backchecker with a great drive to get back in the play. Malkin's no slouch himself, but Sid probably consistently drives himself more.
Getting the puck back.. Malkin's a wizard when the play comes to him, he led the league last season in takeaways.
Elevating teammates.. Both have had less than stellar wingers, but it seems that Crosby generally gets the more skilled options available (like Mark Recchi, Chris Kunitz, Bill Guerin) while Malkin's had a bunch of spare parts, especially since Petr Sykora has moved on. Edge to Malkin since he usually has to lift his linemates up more.
At the end of this comparison, we've got 4 Sids and 4 Genos. Gutless to push on this? Sure. Put a gun to my head and I think I'd take Crosby: what he does away from the puck (faceoffs, passion, drive leadership, face of the league etc) tip the scales ever so slightly.
So what do you think -- Crosby, Malkin, or not this crap debate again?
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I’d like to disagree with you simply to have something to write here, but I think you hit the nail on the head. Gun to my head? If I was creating a new team I would take Sid, if I had a team that already had veteran leadership I would probably take Geno because of the size advantage.
That’s a good point too — different circumstances might mean a different choice.
I think it’d be interesting to ask the other 29 GM’s if they could add Crosby or Malkin to their team as a free agent, which one would it be?
You come at the king, you best not miss.
by Hooks Orpik on Nov 30, 2009 11:35 AM EST up reply actions
I think they did poll the GMs last year between Crosby, Malkin, and Ovechkin. I think Sid had the most votes but I can’t look into it now. If anyone remembers or can find it please let me know
Yeah the majority said they would take Sid.
There is a knack to flying: it's learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.
by Sid the captain on Nov 30, 2009 11:52 AM EST up reply actions
Crosby got me into the Pens so that gives him an edge for me. (and before you say bandwagon!! I did not watch hockey before the lockout simply since I did not have it on my tv then, I got into after the lockout, liked Sid a lot started following the Pens more closely and here I am) Both are fenomonal talents, both are the main (point) producers on this team, both are winners and both should be the "two headed monster for years to come. It’s a wash with a slight, slight edge to Sid for his saviour of he franchise thing.
There is a knack to flying: it's learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.
by Sid the captain on Nov 30, 2009 11:34 AM EST reply actions
You didnt miss much
You’re right it is hard to follow a sport if it isn’t on! I don’t know how old you are Sid the Captain, but I will say you didn’t miss much from the time of the strike shortened season in 1995 up through the strike of 2004. Frankly some pretty dark times for the League. The Devils, Wings and Avs dominated, salaries escalated beyond the point of rationality, The Game got slowed by Trapping defenses, clutching and grabbing etc… and worst of all the Penguins lost most of their star players due to a lack of $$$ following the 2000-01 season. JJ’s defection was the start of the avalanche and the Pens had a piss poor product on the ice for 4 seasons, the lockout really was a good thing for this team, just glad they won the Sid Lottery.
I’m 18 (19 in 2 weeks) so i would have seen most of the trap era and the Pens suckfest, I joined hockey at exactly the right time :), and thank god for free streams on the internet!!
There is a knack to flying: it's learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.
by Sid the captain on Nov 30, 2009 3:26 PM EST up reply actions
Where are you watching free streams?
I always follow NHL stuff on Yahoo. Used to get some free games on-line but now its all Center Ice for $20/mo. What is a good site to watch the Penguins on? Thanks
Stop by the thread on game night. Someone is always tossing up a link at the beginning of the game.
Follow the Penguins on SBN @ Pensburgh.com and twitter.
I’ve also had the opportunity to watch games only in recent years (since the internet developed enough to have live streaming games)… and here (Bulgaria) there isn’t any hockey on TV (except for the World’s and Olympics)…
Also I’m a bit too young to remember the first two cups, but I started rooting for the Penguins mainly because of Jagr (Lemieux was retired then) in the end of the 90s, after I’ve seen him play in some international tournaments for the Czech Republic…
You have to see it for yourself...
Sid. Hands down. I don’t think this is even close. Not to take anything from Malkin who is amazing in his own right, but I just don’t think anyone in the league compares to Crosby and Datsyuk.
pensfan024- hate to criticize another pens fan, but to say it isn’t even close is just idiotic. Don’t forget which player won the art ross and the conn smythe last season.
by genomachine-O on Nov 30, 2009 12:24 PM EST up reply actions
I wouldn’t say it isn’t even close, but the slant goes to Sid.
I’d argue this much, if you don’t think Malkin is in that category, when he is in one of his “it’s on me” modes, nobody from the past, present, or future could stop him. Don’t believe me, ask the Carolina boards about the 2009 Conference Finals.
I’d give the push to Sid because he’s amazingly consistent, and in all categories of his game. The area where I’m such a fan of Malkin though are the times when no one can stop him. All he has to do is hop over the boards, and the game slants the Penguins way.
As always, I am just happy to see these two on the same team. If I were to take one player between the two though, I’d go Geno on the basis of how electric he is when he’s on. Probably not the smartest of the options, but, even with slow patches here and there, he still has elevated his scoring numbers year in and year out, and would be my pick.
PensBurgh penalty - Lavender - 2 Minutes for Deking a Duper Deke that made a Duper Duck.
I wouldn’t say it isn’t even close, but the slant goes to Sid.
I’d argue this much, if you don’t think Malkin is in that category, when he is in one of his "it’s on me" modes, nobody from the past, present, or future could stop him
I agree with that. When Malkin is “on” and hitting on all cylinders, I think he’s a step above every other hockey player in the world.
But I think Crosby (and Ovechkin) are more consistent, show more drive in their play game in and game out.
Malkin’s no bum when he’s not “on”, and obviously it’s only human to have peaks and valleys in anything in life, but Crosby is a little more consistent and maintains a steadier output.
You come at the king, you best not miss.
I kind of like what you’re saying, but I pick Sid instead of Geno. Sure, when Malkin’s on, he looks amazing, nearly unstoppable. But when he’s off his game, he’s nearly invisible. Sure, those stretches are getting fewer and further between, but they’re still there.
When Sid isn’t scoring, he’s still trying to make things happen. You always seem to see him trying to do something on the ice.
Plus, if I was a GM, I think another reason to take Sid is marketability. It’s tough to market a guy who doesn’t like to speak English…
by Hatt the Moople on Nov 30, 2009 4:27 PM EST up reply actions
This is a debate that I think a lot of Pens fans are afraid to touch, for fear of creating tension between the two. We all want these two to be happy playing together and hope that they want to do that for the rest of their careers. Myself included. That aside I would have to say that the passing is a push. I don’t think there is enough there to give Crosby the edge. The same with backchecking because I think turnovers are tied to backchecking for the most part. Tough call between the two. Hope the Pens will never have to decide between the 2 either. If I’m starting a franchise and I have to chose one its Sid, if I already have a team and need to add a player to put them team over the top I take Geno. Geno has more raw talent than Sid, but Sid has the work ethic and determination to improve his game where needed that Geno could use. All things considered Geno i think is the more of an offensive threat, but Sids leadership and faceoff ability give him the ever so slight edge. At times it doesn’t even look like Geno tries on faceoffs.
What are the chances?
You know, I’ve been thinking about this question for a while, and to be honest, it scares the hell out of me. Not Sid vs. Geno, I think we all should be as thankful as can be just to have them on our team.
No, what’s bothering is keeping this team together. We have three years of keeping what I think is the core an back bone of this team together, and the future: Sid, Geno, Flower, Orpik, Staal. What are the chances of these guys staying put? I mean, do you think when 2012 rolls around some of the mwill go to where even more money is, or do you think they will stay put?
I know this is based on how many Cups they can win, who else they get, but do you think they’re the kind of players that would bite at the even larger paycheck? I hope not, I would love to see all of these guys stay in Penguins sweaters for their careers. I know, today that is a huge taboo, but whatever.
What do you all think? Is anyone going to leave?
Cross that bridge when we come to it
In this day and age with a salary cap and with guys looking to be the marquis player or get even bigger bucks it’s unrealistic to expect all these guys, especially as they renew their contracts to stay together. Look at Rob Scuderi. Great D-Man, great team player, left because the grass really was greener on the other side. You can’t fault a guy for taking a deal that pays $3.4M more in one less year! I suspect one or some of the core guys to face the same dilemma. Of course as guys progress new guys come on and become stars, that’s the name of the game. The days of a team like the Edmonton Oilers keeping their core together for a decade are over, I hope the Pens can get their names on the Cup another couple times while these guys are together, enjoy the now, the good times don’t last forever but a well run team will consistently, long term be in the hunt.
Maybe this could get bumped to fanposts?
This is a topic that I think about occasionally, and I think the general concensus of the original topic (Sid v Geno) sums it up. Sid is the face of the NHL (like it or not) and will be signed at all costs, come 2012. The marketing money alone pays for his contract.
With the cap in place, not many teams will exceed the 10 million or so per season it will take to sign either Sid or Geno in the future. If Sid again sets a precedent by signing a below market deal with the Pens, Geno may follow.
Flower is showing that he is a top goalie in the NHL and, I believe, takes precedence over signing Geno. But we can get him for probably 6-7 a year.
Orpik is the most expendable of the group. With the talent we have at WBS, none of our d-men except Gonchar should feel safe in a position with Pittsburgh. Orpik received a very cap-unfriendly (to the Pens) deal for what he brings to the table, and the cap room allotted to stay at home d-men will only go down in the future. Especially when deals for guys like McKee and Skoula can be had by proactive GM’s.
Staal is the question mark. I still feel that he is Shero’s biggest bargaining chip in 2-3 years. With 2-3 years of $5million/per remaining on his contract, we could bring in a slew of prospects, a legitimate top 6 winger for Sid or Geno, or the next QB for the PP (assuming LeTang and GoGo do not work out). He is great on the PK and on Geno’s LW, but will probably never live up to $5million on the scoresheet.
Later this week I’ll do something about the finances and long-term outlook, since there’s interest.
Feel free to make a fan post at any time about this, I enjoy talking about the business and long-term planning aspects.
You come at the king, you best not miss.
You probably all know it, but I like this site for info on the contracts/cap issues…
Of course it’s not completely up to date, but I think it does the job for some calculations 2-3 years ahead…
You have to see it for yourself...
Hooks please don’t, I dont want to even think about the possibility of losing either Sid or Geno for at least 4 more years…… it would be cool to see, but I always try to ignore the large piano hanging over the Sheros head. Until it begins falling.
by genomachine-O on Nov 30, 2009 3:14 PM EST up reply actions
Not to quibble but..
Isn’t Staal signed at $4M a year? I know its tough to get by as a 20 year old for a measly $4M but it is an extra $1M to play with. It will be interesting to see how things play out over the course of this year and the next 2 or so, no doubt there are guys currently on the roster who will be moved or sent down to accomodate a trade deadline acquisition and guys will move on next year. Hopefully the Pens can add another Cup this year, All you can ask is management put a contender on the ice and I believe the Pens are well positioned to be such a team for years to come. Go Pens!
Not this crap debate again!
Regis that’s my final answer! I think this debate is mostly propelled by the Anti-Penguins fan bases trying to stir the pot so that Geno feels like he’s chopped liver and will want to move on where he can be top billing. Well sorry to those Cats but GEno is on the books for 4 more seasons after this one. I do wonder if at some point this town becomes too small for the both of them, but for now they’re both young, have 1 Cup to their names and are making big bucks. I don’t think this issue is an issue at least for a couple more years. To answer the question though, I’d give the edge to Geno as the better player, Crosby as the better leader and team player.
I love both of them… I can’t choose who is “better.” But, when it was time to choose a name for my jersey, I picked Malkin.
Many people have said something about Sid’s leadership, for good reason — he is a great leader and a wonderful spokesperson for the team. But, this is largely because he arrived already fluent in English, and because he had the opportunity to serve as the team’s captain. Geno has always been a leader with his play — he sets an example and gets the whole team playing more aggressively… and I imagine that as his English improves, he has been a leader in the locker room as well… we just don’t get to see it because he isn’t interviewed as often, and because he isn’t 100% comfortable speaking to the press.
I love both of them
That sounds like the answer my mother used to give when I was a kid and insisted she pick her favorite child. Oddly enough, it’s fitting here as well. Both do their thing and do it well. In the end the “family” is better for both of their respective contributions, so why try and single just one out?
Follow the Penguins on SBN @ Pensburgh.com and twitter.
Well I’m not either, but even I know the first born is the favorite.
Follow the Penguins on SBN @ Pensburgh.com and twitter.
If I have to pick as a GM (at least a Fantasy one:), I’ll go with Sid, but if I have to pick as a fan and as an European one, who’s always had a knack for Russian hockey (not AO though!), I’ll go with Geno…
As was already stated above Malkin has this next gear, which very very few (if any) players have…
You have to see it for yourself...
I don’t watch a lot of Caps games, but it seems to me like AO went into that next gear and never left it. I don’t care who you are, if you like hockey then that guys is flat out fun to watch.
by puckhead45_82 on Nov 30, 2009 2:29 PM EST up reply actions
lol, i hear you. Pens-Caps is going to be a great rivalry for quite some time.
by puckhead45_82 on Nov 30, 2009 2:45 PM EST up reply actions
That’s what I’ve leaned toward this past year. I have a desire to hate him a slight bit, but I thought he was a class act in a few regards after the Pens beat them in the Playoffs last year, and, in the games I’ve caught on Versus anyway, he can wire shots in that people just shouldn’t be able to.
I respect his talent, but he falls into something I brought up in a postgame interview this past weekend. Would you rather have one all out superstar scoring every point for the team, or a collective group of people who as a team can account for that type of a tear?
PensBurgh penalty - Lavender - 2 Minutes for Deking a Duper Deke that made a Duper Duck.
Can’t it be both?
lol, j/k, not in the salary cap era.
by puckhead45_82 on Nov 30, 2009 2:48 PM EST up reply actions
With a baseball “salary cap” (I also quote, unquote that in reference to baseball) then anything would be possible.
Follow the Penguins on SBN @ Pensburgh.com and twitter.
Ovechkin, with all his uncanny talent and skill, is a NBA-type superstar who plays me-first-team-second kind of game… which is attractive, yes, great for marketing purposes, yes, but I doubt it’ll bring success in a team-first game as hockey… that’s one of the main reasons I’m a hockey fan, not a basketball one…
And yes, this is only my opinion, and I realize that it’s not the most fair, given the fact that I dislike AO (to say the least)… not his game, but his attitude…
You have to see it for yourself...
Some thoughts:
Not too sure as to the comparisons. If you’re running an off track road race, you might want agility; 4th and 1 on the goal line in football, you might want power; no defensiveness like BBall, then you get Ovie.
So I don’t know about who is the best in hockey but I have a real good idea about the worst, radio jocks, that is.
Madden ranks down at the bottom with the likes of Steigerwald (John) and Paul Alexander. Who’s the worst? Madden, in my opinion. Any others?
And will someone please tell me why whenever there’s a stop by a goalie (almost any goalie) and a scrum starts either near the goal or on the south side, the idiotic director at FSN, Versus or NBC needs to zoom in on the goalie and miss the action?
But maybe the most infuriating bit of directing by the maroons in the truck is when a goalie is pulled. For some reason, known only to God, the director has to show the poor sap racing off the ice rather than showing the action. Duh, like we don’t know. Yeah, I know there are 10,000 new viewers ever minute and they’re ALL new to hockey and don’t know anything! That’s why ESPN dumped hockey! Right!
Is it just me or is anyone else not too enthralled with Paul Steigerwald and his "holier-than-thou", I’m gonna call a fair and balanced game even if it means slamming the Pens? I’m sick and tired of hearing all the time from him and Bobby that, "Oh, we got away with one there" or "Looks like the officials missed a penalty on the Pens." Hey Steigy, you’re a homer or supposed to be; you’re supposed to be partial to the ‘burgh. If I wanted to hear an unbiased game, I’d go to Doc or someone from Canadian TV (Well, most of the time).
But to listen, night in and night out to Steigerwald trying to be so "fair" doesn’t sit with me. Bring back Mikey!
Sure the Pens get away with some but so do other teams. Just call the game and don’t point out every mistake the Pens "get away with." Cripes, listen to other homer announcers and while they sometimes comment their team "got away with one" by and large they broadcast for their home crowd. Is Steigerwald auditioning for a Versus spot?
Somehow that felt good! Sorry!
Not sure what this has to do with anything or why I’m even commenting on it. Steigy’s job is to call a fair and balanced game. Even though he is part of the Pens broadcast team hes supposed to be somewhat “fair and balanced”. Would you rather Steigy was more like Beninati? Who loses his mind everytime Ovechkin touches the puck. Steigy’s does a good job. Hes not Mike Lange, but I think him and Bob do a good job.
by genomachine-O on Nov 30, 2009 3:33 PM EST up reply actions
I agree, I was watching the boston guys on a feed some weeks ago and they we’re irritating like hell, I generally like Bob&Steigy.
There is a knack to flying: it's learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.
by Sid the captain on Nov 30, 2009 3:36 PM EST up reply actions
the worst announcers have to be in Buffalo. That play by play guy sounds like he’s showing his O face everytime they score or Miller makes a save….
Back to Maddens article for a question.
Who do you root for when Canada and Russia play for the gold medal? Sid & Fleury or Geno, Gonch? Or do you just root that nobody gets hurt?
Sid and Fleury… But I hate to because then Babcock gets an even bigger head… and of course, pray no one gets hurt… Be funny as hell if Ovechkin went after Sid, missed, and was out the whole year
I’m just going to enjoy games between some sick stacked rosters, I’m cheering for the non-injury bug first and foremost.
There is a knack to flying: it's learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.
by Sid the captain on Nov 30, 2009 3:53 PM EST up reply actions
I know I’m sure theres a post for this in the future, but I don’t know who I’m going to root for. Of course the US, which if Miller keeps playing like he has been could have a real shot to be there. With Bugsy, Orpik, possibly Scuderi and Whitney.
But it might come down to who I hate more Babcock or Ovechkin. Both great at what they do, but I cant stand either one.
by genomachine-O on Nov 30, 2009 3:56 PM EST up reply actions
The best squad of the olympics will be the US taxi squad though: they are stacked with Patrick “20 cent” Kane
There is a knack to flying: it's learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.
by Sid the captain on Nov 30, 2009 4:15 PM EST up reply actions
See, you bring up Mark Madden, and the first thing I think of is his stint as a color commentator for WCW.
Which eventually led to a pretty amusing (to me, anyway) instance of people calling him up on regular-sports-talk radio and giving him crap about wrestlers.
Before each game, please remember to feed the bats.
Malkin
Hmm last post was kinda short.
I think I give the nod to Malkin souly because the Pens do much better when Crosby is out and Malkin steps up than they did when Malkin was out a few games and noone stepped up.
And Mark Madden is an idiot, his 164 IQ is actually 1 + 6 + 4 or 11
Though i saw the numbers about a month ago, it was not just Geno who stepped up, Staal, Superstar, Sykora etc all produced at a significantly higher level aswel at the same time, when geno was out most of the supporting cast was out aswel, so to compare the situations is not fair to Sid imo.
There is a knack to flying: it's learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.
by Sid the captain on Nov 30, 2009 6:51 PM EST up reply actions
GENO!!!!
I think Geno has done more with less, considering he’s had lesser talents on his wings. Crosby getting whomever the pens consider their best wingers on his line. but either way, we have them both, so who cares, the fact that Mark Madden is still employed blows my mind, he’s the biggest bag of hot air in or around the pittsburgh market…
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