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Sergei Gonchar still looking for the big bucks?


From the Sporting News:

Jim Matheson of the Edmonton Journal says the defending champion Pittsburgh Penguins are unlikely to keep star defenseman Sergei Gonchar when his contract runs out after this season because of salary cap considerations.

Matheson points out that Gonchar will be 36 years old and the Pens probably won’t want to invest the approximately $15 million it will take to keep him for three more years.

Nothing against a reputable guy like Matheson, but he's way up in Edmonton which makes it a little questionable how much insight he might have on Pittsburgh negotiations.  That said with possible connections to agents, players or other sources, perhaps he does know a little something.

Whether or not to renew Sergei Gonchar's contract will be the Penguins biggest question in the coming months.  He carries a hefty salary, but he performs a vital role playing #1 defenseman minutes in all situations.  Durability's been a concern of late and youngsters like Kris Letang and Alex Goligoski have shown flashes of brilliance, but not the conisistency and steadiness that Gonchar strives in.

Free agency is a strange beast -- see Wade Redden getting an average of $6.5 million over six seasons just two summers ago -- so it's impossible to say that Gonchar couldn't fetch what he's allegedly asking.

On the other hand, Gonchar and his family seems very comfortable in Pittsburgh, he's on a very good team and is a respected guy in the room.  He's made a handsome sum of money in his 16 year pro career, perhaps the money issue may not be as important as reported.  Money is always a key, but it's not always the only factor.

For the Penguins part, as we mentioned: Pittsburgh has been basically a .500 team WITHOUT Gonchar in the past two seasons and they've been sensational with him.  To lose him would be damaging, to say the least, but over-extending him (in terms of years on the contract or money) is far from ideal.  "Know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em" and that.

The Sergei Gonchar --and Letang -- negotiations will be some of the most interesting off-ice developments for Ray Shero to manage in the upcoming months.  Let's see how it goes and whether or not there's any validity to this report from Canada.

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Maybe they can sign Sarge to a long-term, low annual deal. Something that would keep him in a Pens uniform until he retires, whenever that is. Like a 5-year, $20 mil extension or something.

It’s a tough situation because as much as I understand the financial realities of the team, I don’t see Goligoski or Letang becoming players of Sarge’s level at any point in their careers. That said, it’s hard to justify letting Letang go because they want to keep Gonchar around for 2 more years.

"Drew Breeeeeeeees!" "Oh, yeah."

by Malsby on Dec 28, 2009 6:31 PM EST reply actions  

Maybe they can sign Sarge to a long-term, low annual deal. Something that would keep him in a Pens uniform until he retires, whenever that is. Like a 5-year, $20 mil extension or something.

That can’t work. The rule is if a player is over 35, the contract counts against the team’s cap even if the player retires. I don’t see a 40 year old Gonchar factoring too much into the team’s plans and it’s not worth two years of that cap hit to do.

Pensburgh.com

You come at the king, you best not miss.

by Hooks Orpik on Dec 28, 2009 7:10 PM EST up reply actions  

best I think we could hope for is a 1 or 2 year deal.

by Randy F on Dec 28, 2009 7:00 PM EST reply actions  

I still hope Sarge will make a small discount to stay in Pittsburgh… otherwise the negotiations are pretty much doomed…

whatever happens I don’t think he could be replaced as early as next season, so I’m really hoping RS can work some magic again…

You have to see it for yourself...

by Bla Razor on Dec 28, 2009 7:08 PM EST reply actions  

how many

how many hall of fame caliber defenseman will we loose before one retires a pen, see larry murphy and paul coffey. is the sarge a first ballot HoF’r, no but he will be in one day.

" Lord Stanley, scratch thier names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009

by oldtimehockey09 on Dec 28, 2009 7:51 PM EST reply actions  

Paul Coffey was a HOF’er before he came to the Burgh. And Larry Murphy got a sweetheart deal to go to Toronto. They wanted him for the name.

Why do guys need to retire as Pens? Mario, he should have. Jagr, Francis, Murphy, Coffey, etc. not so much. And this is BEFORE the salary cap era. Only Crosby, from our current roster, is going to retire a Pen. And that is not even guaranteed, but is very probable. I’ll be glad to wager a small gentlemanly sum that Malkin plays at least one year in the KHL before he is done. Although neither of us is going to collect for at least a decade.

by Ulf Murphy on Dec 29, 2009 9:25 AM EST up reply actions  

I would say Gonchar is not going to make the HHOF. He’s not regarded that well among a lot of people since he wasn’t that good of a two-way defenseman for many years.

From this generation obviously Nick Lidstrom is a hall of fame guarantee, but after that I don’t know. Maybe Rob Blake is borderline. Chris Pronger and Scott Niedermayer have a lot of longevity too.

If Gonchar adds a gold medal and another Cup or two that could really bolster his case though.

If Gonchar spends the next few years in Pittsburgh, I’d definitely put him in the ring of honor at the top of the arena. Crosby, Malkin, Fleury, Gonchar, Staal and Talbot are last playoff run’s guys like Jagr, Francis, Murphy and Coffey that were honored as the core of the last SC generation.

Pensburgh.com

You come at the king, you best not miss.

by Hooks Orpik on Dec 29, 2009 3:05 PM EST up reply actions  

27th all time in points amoung dmen, plus when you consider his impact in the locker room imo hes good to go. in 5 years he should be in the top 20, if not the top 15

" Lord Stanley, scratch thier names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009

by oldtimehockey09 on Dec 29, 2009 8:13 PM EST up reply actions  

How about another wild card question to throw into the mix…

If the Pens can’t work out a deal with Gonchar before the end of the year, do you keep him on and HOPE he works something out next offseason or do you try and dish him off before the trade deadline and more or less make him another team’s focus while trying to get some value out of him before he’s gone? Pens hockey without Gonchar doesn’t seem like a winning combo, as Hooks mentioned in the post. However, I believe this topic is an area of consideration. And who knows? While no long-term deal could exist for Kovalchuk, perhaps Gonchar is a piece of a package that could bring Kovi to Pittsburgh for three months.

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by FrankD on Dec 28, 2009 8:02 PM EST reply actions  

now my head hurts...

contract year, nearly every team in the league would want him, but what would we get back? another thought is how would the move be percieved around pen’s nation? If sarge was having a down year i would agree. however he’s on track for another 60 point season at least. Thats about par for the course for him. never mind playing on a banged up knee stablizing the team and helping bring the cup back home….glad im not in that gm’s box right now

" Lord Stanley, scratch thier names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009

by oldtimehockey09 on Dec 28, 2009 8:06 PM EST up reply actions  

here's a trip

gooch for whitney?

" Lord Stanley, scratch thier names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009

by oldtimehockey09 on Dec 28, 2009 8:07 PM EST up reply actions  

If we’re talking Ray Whitney I say nay on that. I was so happy to see that guy leave town.

Follow the Penguins on SBN @ Pensburgh.com and twitter.

by FrankD on Dec 28, 2009 9:38 PM EST up reply actions  

er by “Ray” I meant “Ryan” of course.

Follow the Penguins on SBN @ Pensburgh.com and twitter.

by FrankD on Dec 28, 2009 9:38 PM EST up reply actions  

ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

The best thing to happen to our D corp is him leaving. We have a ton of young talent on the blueline. Any trades involving Sarge are going to involve a sniper for Sid, which Kunitz most definitely is not.

by Ulf Murphy on Dec 29, 2009 9:28 AM EST up reply actions  

TRADE!

unless he takes say a 2yr deal at about 3mil per then the point of resignning him is pointless, and if resignning him is pointless then the Pens cannot let him walk and get no return for him. hence trade him at the deadline, get some good players in return and get the most out of him until that time. who knows maybe he comes back to us in the summer? do not lose letang for a few more seasons of gonchar, its just not worth it IMO.

by C Shint on Dec 28, 2009 8:56 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

The downfall is that Gonchar’s been so good for the Penguins and the team looks drastically different without him.

With all the pieces in place for another long run, dealing a #1 defenseman isn’t usually something a contender does. And trade wise, whatever team looking to get Gonchar is likely to be a playoff bound team the Pens might have to deal with at some point. That’d be about the last thing anyone would want.

It’s a quandry for sure.

Pensburgh.com

You come at the king, you best not miss.

by Hooks Orpik on Dec 28, 2009 9:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Playoffs

The big downside of trading Gonchar at the deadline is that we won’t have him for the playoffs. If we keep Gonchar for the rest of the year, we have a better chance of winning the Stanley Cup. Another cup would mean a great deal to the organization. So, there is a big incentive not to trade him, even if that means we might lost him without getting other players in return.

by Cari on Dec 28, 2009 10:06 PM EST up reply actions  

I imagine they’ll hold him for sure even if they know they can’t get him to re-sign. Like we all know, Sarge is just too valuable for this season to sacrifice for future years on young players/prospects/picks that may or may not pan out.

The window to win Stanley Cups isn’t open for very long. Sure there’s no reason to believe the Pens won’t be solid for many years to come, but they’re obviously on top of the hill right now, time to win and sort out what there is in the future.

Maybe as a last heave they could trade Gonchar before the July 1 deadline for a pick, ala the Malone and Roberts to Tampa deal from Summer ‘08. It would only be for a mid round pick, but it’d be something.

I say win now, let things fall where they may later. If Gonchar can’t be re-signed it does at least open up plenty of room to extend Letang and then look to the UFA pool for another puckmoving d-man. A guy like Marc-Andre Bergeron was on the market for a while this past off-season. It’s not ideal and it would be a downgrade, but the choices will be there.

Pensburgh.com

You come at the king, you best not miss.

by Hooks Orpik on Dec 28, 2009 10:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Hooks.

I agree. keeping Gonchar makes the most sense.. well stated..

by Randy F on Dec 28, 2009 10:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Hopefully the ideal is Gonchar is willing to finish things out in Pittsburgh at a reduced rate. We’ve seen Bill Guerin take a big paycut to do so; but that’s a bit of a different situation too as Gonchar would have more options on the open market than Guerin, who’s closer to the end of the line.

I think the years may be more important than the dollars too. Would Shero be willing to give Gonchar 3-4 years if that’s what it’d take? Defensemen can hit a wall and drop off pretty quickly. Gonchar has 956 games under his belt and missed significant time to injuries, I don’t know if it’s wise to sign him 3-4 years.

Pensburgh.com

You come at the king, you best not miss.

by Hooks Orpik on Dec 28, 2009 10:32 PM EST up reply actions  

3, I’d seriously think about it. 4, absolutely not…like you’ve said, he’s missed a ton of games already the past few years…

"Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force; like fire, a troublesome servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action." - George Washington

by Hockey Beard in SLC on Dec 29, 2009 2:48 AM EST up reply actions  

Trading Sarge before the end of the season is, I think, a definite NO-NO. Currently he’s just as important to the team as are Sid, Geno and MAF. We’ve seen it last season, we’ve seen it this season too.

Even if, at the end, we lose Gonch for nothing (or a 3rd/4th round pick) I think that’s more acceptable than to risk trading him…

You have to see it for yourself...

by Bla Razor on Dec 29, 2009 5:18 AM EST up reply actions  

FROM THE HOWARD BALDWIN SCHOOL OF BUSINESS....

“I say win now, let things fall where they may later” Where did that get us in 1993? On the road to bankruptcy and no more cups.

Yes we won the cup. Even keeping Sarge does not guarantee we will win any more cups. If we keep him at a cap unfriendly rate, we are the Chicago Blackhawks in a few years. (See $60mm in contracts in a $52mm cap year) Mortgaging the future to save a 35 year-old defenseman is not a good move in this cap era. Besides, he is not going to get better, only worse and we will have to replace him during Sid and Geno’s prime anyway.

by Ulf Murphy on Dec 29, 2009 10:55 AM EST up reply actions  

Haha, nice Baldwin reference.

I didn’t mean keep Gonchar past this year. It’s not wise to sign him for big bucks again. If that’s what you inferred, it’s not what I meant.

I meant, keep him for this year’s playoff run and let things happen as they may (i.e. risk losing him for nothing as a free agent).

Pensburgh.com

You come at the king, you best not miss.

by Hooks Orpik on Dec 29, 2009 3:06 PM EST up reply actions  

I completely agree with you there. If he takes a “homer” deal, he stays. If not, he goes. I would hate to see him leave, but all players leave eventually. $5mm per year for a d-man as old as me is not a good investment! :)

by Ulf Murphy on Dec 29, 2009 3:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Reality is

Gonchar will not be here much longer, if anything he is blocking our younger defensmen from developing becuase the Pens do so well with Sarge running the point and being the #1 Dman. Ok so if we trade him there is a strong chance we dont go back to back, but we would get some great young talent in return that could provide for us at a cheap rate when all our other stars are making top dollar. Sometimes gotta look at the big picture.

by C Shint on Dec 28, 2009 11:00 PM EST up reply actions  

But I think the big picture is that the Pens are built to win now. They are not rebuilding yet so trading Sarge seems like a bad idea to me. I think they make another run at it this year, then restock and rebuild around the core for one or two years and make another go at it.

by PensFan024 on Dec 29, 2009 9:00 AM EST up reply actions  

The BIGGER picture is this team is built to win for AT LEAST the next 5 years due to long term signings of SId, Geno, Stall, Orpik and Fleury. That is the core of this team and will be the centerpiece of all the teams we field for the next 5 years. If Sid, Geno, Fleury and Staal sign team friendly deals the NEXT time around, we will contend for the next DECADE!!

by Ulf Murphy on Dec 29, 2009 10:59 AM EST up reply actions  

Gonchar for Whitney?!?? are you kidding me? no way.

as for Kovalchuk, even as a rent-a-player… no way. We gave up essentially 3 first round picks for Hossa, you’d have to think at a minimum, it would take at least 2 1st rounders and another player. Toronto gave up two 1st rounders for Kessel don’t know where these rumors come up at, there is just NO way Ilya gets traded to the ’burgh.

if they can’t sign Gonchar at hometown discount for a yr or two, I’d say let him go. Letang, Gogoliski and Ben Lovejoy looked pretty damn good to me when he was playing earlier with all of the injuries to ’D" earlier are the future of the Pens D .

by Randy F on Dec 28, 2009 8:58 PM EST reply actions  

Yeah Randy, I think the price for Kovalchuk is just too high….

I think if the Pens would have offered something like Staal, Dupuis and a first maybe they’d bite, but it quite clearly wouldn’t be even offered by Shero.

Pensburgh.com

You come at the king, you best not miss.

by Hooks Orpik on Dec 28, 2009 9:58 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree

I think it’s best if we stop drooling at the possibility to see Kovalchuk flanking Sid or Geno.

You have to see it for yourself...

by Bla Razor on Dec 29, 2009 5:20 AM EST up reply actions  

I agree

Hossa did not bring us a cup. Renting Kavalchuck for 2 months does not guarantee another cup. The price will be very steep.

by Ulf Murphy on Dec 29, 2009 11:01 AM EST up reply actions  

Gonch is staying. RS works magic contracts and Gonch couldn’t be happier in Pittsburgh, and I believe he has expressed interest in retiring a Penguin. Lidstrom is still solid at 40+, Gonch is the type who would be as well. Start with a 3-4 year deal with a declining salary to minimize the cap hit and I would be surprised if he doesn’t re-sign.

by ipenguin67 on Dec 29, 2009 12:42 PM EST reply actions  

How high would you go? $3.5 million (cap hit) for the four years?

I think it’s too risky to give what’ll be a 36 year old defensemen (with injury history) that sort of money. I’d also say Lidstrom is more of the exception than the rule. A lot of guys hit a wall and then they are no more.

Brian Leetch had his last 50+ point season as a 36 year old, as did Rob Blake. Scott Niedermayer’s play (by his high standards) have gone down this season as a 36 year old as well.

I’d be very cautious locking up an older player. I’d love to bring Gonchar back on a 1-2 year contract, but I’m not sure about any more.

Pensburgh.com

You come at the king, you best not miss.

by Hooks Orpik on Dec 29, 2009 3:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Shero’s history points to a 2 year deal. I would say that Shero will offer 2 years at $8.5mm (5 first year, 3.5 second). Do we have players/team options in the NHL? If so, add a 3rd year player option at another 3.5, bringing total to 12mm over 3. Someone will offer more.

by Ulf Murphy on Dec 29, 2009 3:56 PM EST up reply actions  

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