The better goalie: Marc-Andre Fleury or Marty Biron?
by FrankD on Apr 20, 2009 12:40 PM EDT
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PrintIt's hard to say why this is a topic of debate but apparently a member of the Philly media insists that Biron is the better goalie despite his team's 2-1 deficit. Given the circumstances of a recent win and the endless lack of knowledge prevelant in the Philly media, I figured we could tackle this poorly researched piece and distinguish who the better goalie is on our own.
Statistically, according to the Philadelphia Daily News' Sammy Donnellon, Biron is the better goalie. Here is his reasoning:
He’s made more saves, allowed fewer goals and really, was within a late power play goal Friday of stealing Game 2 in Pittsburgh.
Biron has made more saves (101 to Fleury's 88) but that's only because the Penguins are putting more shots on (111 for Pitt, 96 for Philly). Does that mean the Penguins are the better team because of it? Hard to say. If the old saying holds true and defense does win championships (see also: 2008 Red Wings) then it's hard to give Biron the edge on this one. The Pens are testing him and testing him often. The fact they have a 2-1 series lead over the Flyers is evidence to the fact that Biron is having trouble handling Pittsburgh's offense. You've seen some of the goal that have gone in. Most of them were easy saves, and that includes Friday's game-winner.
Biron has not allowed fewer goals. I don't know where Donnellon gets his stats from or how well he did on the math section of the SAT, but Biron's goals allowed (10) is greater than Fleury's (8). Yes eight, because you don't include the empty net goal against a goalie who isn't in the net. And even if you did it would still be less because, you see, 10 is greater than nine.
As an added bonus it would seem Pens fans are backing Fleury more than Flyers fans are backing BIron. I stating that based entirely off fan support in the open threads on Broad Street Hock and here.
When Philly fans are misinformed to this degree it's makes you wonder what life is really like in that black and orange cloud of pessimism and bitterness. I almost feel bad for them, but not really. If this is what Flyers fans want to read to stay "informed" (please use that term loosely) then by all means, they can keep reading.
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so cool
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Let's go Pens!
eh, three games doesn’t an argument decide. 55 games into the season, ask the question, and maybe Fleury’s the one coming across as the chump. The Pens offense picks up, Gonchar comes back, and all of a sudden, he’s all star caliber again. At that same point in the season, Biron was looking pretty good.
In this series, I’d call it a wash, Fleury just gave up 5 the other day, and game 2, Biron didn’t mind his short side in OT. Neither of them have impressed me as playing a a really high level yet. Yeah, Fleury made an all time save on Carter, which is the difference between the Flyers being up 2-1 and the current status, and a full blown panic mode around here, but you could argue that Carter had a foot of wide open space to bury the puck (let alone the 4 feet above the ice), and tapped it in the middle of the net, where Fleury’s leg happened to be. And Biron, look at game 1, they weren’t all Geno rockets like in game 3.
Wow! I’m not going to say Biron is the best goalie…or a great goalie, but it sounds like you guys think you have a Patrick Roy, Dominik Hasek, or Martin Brodeur of their prime. I’m not sure either goalie is any better than the other. If you think Fleury is better, how much better do you really think he is?
What’s better, the Ford Crown Victoria or Mercury Grand Marquis? They are the same car with different logos. The answer…a Mercedes!
That’s the problem with your comparison…it’s not worth comparing! You are comparing two adequate goalies, when neither is Tim Thomas.
During the regular season, Fleury had the advantage in numbers:
- GAA: Fleury # 23, 2.67 Avg; Biron # 25, 2.76 Avg. Huge!!!
- SV%: Fleury # 10, .915%; Biron # 13, .912%.
Based on the numbers, I’m upset with such a sub-par goalie. You guys must be proud!
by Broad Street Bulletin on Apr 20, 2009 2:59 PM EDT reply actions
I really do think the splits between Therien era and Bylsma era Fleury are important here. A better team around you makes for a better goaltender, if only because all of a sudden, you’re not facing as many shots, etc. I’m wondering if anyone’s got that stat in terms of Fleury’s performance.
There’s a whole blog built around pretty much that exact subject: goaltenders are very, VERY dependent on the team they have around them, moreso than any other player on the ice.
Pittsburgh Black And Gold -- So new, it still smells like paint!
I agree Justin…Look no further than Steve Mason in Columbus. Definitely a very talented goalie but when his team lets him down (or just gets overwhelmed by a better club) he’s no match for what happens next.
A goalie has to bail out his team sometimes, but, for the most part a good goalie is only as good as the players in front of him. The Pens weren’t good at all in front of Fleury yesterday, he made about 3 incredible saves, but no one stops them all.
During the regular season
We’ve already had Flyers fans tell us that the regular season numbers don’t matter.
I’ll personally defer to the playoff record, Fleury is 6-2 against Biron.
Biron was great yesterday, we’ll see if he can beat the Pens three out of the next four games. I don’t think he can.
I’ve been saying since before the series started that this will all come down to how well Fleury plays. He’s absolutely the key to the Pens’ success, and when he sputters they sputtered.
And he was BAD in game 3. Game 4, again, is all on him.
Swing by The Flyer Frequent. You have nothing better to do.
I disagree
Fleury definitely didn’t have his best game the other day, but I wouldn’t put the blame for the loss on him. When Flyers players can skate untouched directly in front of the net, I do not blame the goalie when one of them scores… anyway he’ll be back in form tomorrow to put us up 3-1!
go pens!
Fleury fell to the same three goal deficit that Biron did in Game One. Different score and outcome of course, but the deficit is just the same. I agree with Cyroose’s comment that the Pens’ D left him out to dry. But to credit the Flyers (see? I can do it), there was no stopping them in that first period rush. Lupul’s drop pass to Carter was a thing of beauty, matched only by the moves he used when he literally walked right in on Fleury untouched. I also mentioned in yesterday’s thread that the pattern is starting to develop – big win in game one, goaltending duel game two, big win in game three…goaltending duel in game four?
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Is this a serious question? Anyone who has watched these two go head to head for the past 2 years knows that Fluery is the better goalie. Biron played well, not great, yesterday and Fluery had a bad game, as did the Pen’s D. One game doesn’t make a series and we all know a series doesn’t begin till the road team wins. I see that happening tomorrow and the Pens wrap it up by Thursday.
Life is about one simple choice, get busy living or get busy dying
The fact that his own team couldn’t name him number 1 definitively over Nittymaki for alot of the season is enough to know he’s not better then Fleury. Some days he’s better then Fleury, but most days he’s not. . Fleury can be hot and cold too, but he’s more consistent then Biron, and Fleury is a big game goalie. When they are both playing at their best Fleury is head and shoulders above Biron.
Phili B
I’ve told you guys before and I’ll say it again: most of these guys don’t speak for all of us. Please don’t make the assumption that, just because one sports writer in our city is extremely misinformed, that makes all of us misinformed.
That said, there’s no debating Biron was the better goalie on Sunday. That’s more on Fleury than on Marty, though. At the same time, Biron has been “good Biron” in games 2 and 3, for the most part. He’s giving the Flyers a chance to win the games, and that’s all I want out of him.
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I’ve told you guys before and I’ll say it again: most of these guys don’t speak for all of us. Please don’t make the assumption that, just because one sports writer in our city is extremely misinformed, that makes all of us misinformed.
But it’s just too much fun…
Follow the Penguins on SBN @ Pensburgh.com and twitter.
Agreed that Biron was definitely playing better on Sunday than Fleury. Biron also played very well on Friday, that final goal was pretty much unavoidable, being that the Pens had a 2-man advantage. Although I like Fleury more, I give Biron props for some excellent saves he has made.
by Presidentjlh on Apr 21, 2009 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Anybody holding out hope we get Biron from WAS/MON series from last year? Because last year’s Conference Finals, as everyone here acknowledges, the Flyers were not playing well in front of him. With this year’s D corps and last year’s Biron, maybe the comparisons can actually be worthy of comparing. (Fleury is the better goalie, but he has bad days too)
by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 21, 2009 10:25 AM EDT reply actions
Game 4 puts this question to rest
Wow What a show by Fleury stopping 45 of 46 shots. He was competing so hard through every screen, that big glove save when he was super screened said it all.
Biron had notihing he could have really done on sids goal except try to poke check the puck from ever getting to him. Kennedy kind of has Biron’s number, but his D did leave him out to dry a bit on that 1 too.
Biron couldn’t have done what Fleury did tonight.
When Fleury is in the Zone, he’s always in position, knows where the puck is, is aggressive challenging far out of the crease, and then there are the attributes that coaching and work ethic can’t get you, athleticism and cat like reflexes.
Phili B
when biron “wants to” he’s solid, but no where near fleury’s calibur, apparently fleury hasnt even reached the level a 1st round goalie should be. the only younger goalie id rather have then fleury is mason on cbj, mason with our defense. we’ll probably sign biron, let nitty go, draft someone, or bring someone mediocre up from the phantoms and either ride biron for the season and hope our offense does it, we’re eons away from having a goalie carry our team.
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