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When Marian Hossa spurned the Penguins, they acted quickly to replace him and ended up back in the Finals

The Pittsburgh Penguins mortgaged a lot of their future when they sent two young roster players (forwards Colby Armstrong and Erik Christensen) and basically two first round draft picks (prospect Angelo Esposito and the rights to eventual 29th overall pick in 2008 that became Daultan Leveille) for free-agent-to-be forward Marian Hossa and Pascal Dupuis.

The gamble by GM Ray Shero largely worked; Hossa scored 12 goals and 14 assists in 20 playoff games on Sidney Crosby's wing and was a major reason why Pittsburgh played deep into the spring.  Hossa was arguably the top skater on a Penguin team that jumped from 1 playoff in in 2007 to 14 playoff wins in 2008.

It takes, of course, 16 wins to hoist the Stanley Cup; so Hossa and the rest of the Penguins had to watch Henrik Zetterberg, Nicklas Lidstrom and the rest of the Red Wings skate off with the Cup in June 2008, and on Mellon Arena ice no less.

After the jump, how the pieces fell into place after the Hossa's July 2008 decision to sign with the Cup champions Red Wings.  The fall-out from his choice and Shero's moves since then have shaped the Pittsburgh Penguins 2009 Stanley Cup finalist roster, as well as the rosters for the years to come....

Star-divide

Marian Hossa's decision: Detroit

Hossa, who played for 10 seasons where he was told, earned the right for free agency and play for a team of his own choosing.  He had suitors from all around the league, including a reportedly huge offer from the Edmonton Oilers, at $9 million a year.  The Penguins made what they knew would be their best offer to Hossa; reportedly five or seven years (his choice) at somewhere between $7-$7.5 million per.  For a team that already had a lot of money tied long-term into young stars Sidney Crosby ($8.7m annually), Evgeni Malkin ($8.7m), Marc-Andre Fleury ($5m) and Ryan Whitney ($4m) it was an invitation for Hoss to join that core.

Then Detroit jumped in with a proposal of their own.  They couldn't match the money that a team like Edmonton could, or even the term that Pittsburgh could due to the contracts they had tied up themselves.  But they sold Hossa on joining a team that just won a Cup and lost virtually no pieces of the puzzle.  Clearly last summer they had the best chance to win it again, if they don't right now.  Hossa signed the dotted line and set his course.

If Hossa had offered his services to Pittsburgh on a one-year deal, it's about a slam dunk that the Pens management would have accommodated his wishes.  But that was never an option that Hossa chose to give the Pens, he cast his lot and his Cup chances with Detroit. 

 

Pittsburgh signs a winger in free agency

Pittsburgh management momentarily reeled, but then they moved on, as they had to, the clock was ticking in free agency.  The Pens quickly sent out feelers to at least offensive wingers Markus Naslund, Jaromir Jagr, Brian Rolston and Miroslav Satan and signed Satan to a sensible one year $3.5 million contract.

While Satan certainly hasn't worked out as a top line winger, his contributions to the Pens post-season run has been admirable and tangible.  And, since they only signed Satan to a one year deal, they'll have the salary cap space to look again this summer for another offensive winger.

 

Room to re-sign Brooks Orpik

Then the Penguins signed UFA defenseman Brooks Orpik to a six year deal worth $3.75 million.  While the Penguins had other defensemen emerge this season (namely Mark Eaton and, to an extent, Philippe Boucher), Orpik has been a top pairing defenseman all year long, providing a lot of stability and a physical presence to a blueline that needed it. 

Orpik had the opportunity for a bigger money contract (reportedly a lot of interest and/or solid offers from Los Angeles, NY Rangers and Atlanta) but he choose to stay with the Pens. 

If Hossa signed with Pittsburgh, there's a 0% chance the Pens would have had the flexibility to feel good about offering Orpik a big money, long term contract.  He wouldn't have received an offer from Pittsburgh and would have ended up slipping away much like Ryan Malone did.

 

Signing Jordan Staal

When Hossa departed, the Penguins added Jordan Staal to their long-term plans with a four year deal worth $4 million per in January 2009.  Granted, Staal was and is a big part of the Penguins future, so perhaps they would have found a way to lock him up for the future regardless of whether of not Hossa signed.  But with $7 million not committed to the payroll for the next five years, it certainly was a lot easier to give another player a sizable chunk of the salary cap to a forward.

This is speculation-- especially given how much Pens management likes Staal-- but perhaps they would have traded him before his restricted free agency would have hit this coming summer.

Sometimes the best moves a general manager makes are the ones he thinks better of and doesn't go through with.  Staal, just 20 years old with over 245 games of regular season and playoff experience, is a hulking center who figures to grow into a 3rd line role and maybe even a 30 goal / 40 assist scorer in his prime.  Perhaps if Hossa was a Penguin for longer, Staal wouldn't have been.

 

Adding the final piece at the Trade Deadline

Needing a winger for Crosby, the Penguins dealt one of their core young players, Ryan Whitney, for forward Chris Kunitz and a prospect in February.  Do they feel the need to make that deal if Hossa was around all year?  Maybe, maybe not, we'll never know.

But the Penguins saw another opportunity and ended up trading a 3rd round pick to the NY Islanders for their captain and former Stanley Cup Champion Bill Guerin.  All Gurerin has done is score 13 points (6g + 7a) in 16 playoff games, good for third on the team behind Crosby and Malkin.  Guerin's also added the unquantifiable measure of veteran leadership and presence that the team had needed and benefited from too.

The Penguins had to send the at-the-time-ineffective Satan to the minors to wrangle Guerin's prorated $4.5 million salary to fit under the cap.  But if Hossa was still on the roster (and payroll) the move to acquire Guerin would have been impossible to make.

---

 

So basically we've got at least Satan + Guerin + Orpik for Hossa.  While there's no doubt Hossa is an impact player at both ends of the ice and one of the best snipers in the game, the Penguins have replaced his allotted would-be salary with 3 contributing players to another Stanley Cup finalist team.  Hossa helped to get the Pens to the finals last season, but the players who've came on in his stead have helped the team get back this season.

This series of decisions and other related personnel moves (like Whitney for Kunitz) and moves they did not make (like possibly trading Jordan Staal) is why we're at where we are today.  And now Marian Hossa is one win away with the Red Wings from meeting his old team for the whole thing and the ultimate validation of his summer decision.

Would the Penguins be where they are now if they still had Hossa and less depth?  We'll never know for sure.  Sidney Crosby scored 6 goals last spring, he's got 14 now.  Malkin had 22 points last post-season, this time around he's got 28 in fewer games.  Crosby and Makin have carried the weight, showing that the decision for depth over top-flight skill has apparently been a good one so far.

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Excellent post. I think you hit it right on the head with this line:

Would the Penguins be where they are now if they still had Hossa and less depth?

That’s exactly it. I mean, it’s certainly hard to say whether the Pens would be here again with Hossa but there’s no arguing Pittsburgh’s added depth this season. Don’t forget Ruslan Fedotenko too. That guy is having one hell of a playoff run so far. If Pitt re-signs Hossa Tenk plays somewhere else.

I think having the depth ultimately trumps in the end, but we still have a series to decide that. One guy can get hurt. One guy can slump. But to have a solid reserve of three to four consistent guys who go out and do their job every game really gives Pitt the egde, imho.

I could care less about Hossa. He missed a long-term deal that guaranteed money right before the league will likely take a bit of a hit to the salary cap. Good luck testing that in the offseason – and landing with a “good” team for a long time no less. But I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t giddy in thinking he may walk away without the Cup once again.

Follow the Penguins on SBN @ Pensburgh.com and twitter.

by FrankD on May 27, 2009 12:01 PM EDT reply actions  

I think Fedotenko was more or less the replacement for Malone on the second line, but he very well could have been out of the Pens price range if Hossa was re-signed, another good point. I guess we’ll never really know what it would have been otherwise, but it’s definitely a possibility no Fedotenko too.

by Hooks Orpik on May 27, 2009 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

good point. Maybe they would’ve just picked Satan as a Malone replacement instead of Tank, or vice versa. Either way it winds up costing Pitt a producer in the playoffs.

Follow the Penguins on SBN @ Pensburgh.com and twitter.

by FrankD on May 27, 2009 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Fedotenko woke up for the playoffs and has been a beast compared to the regular season, i’d hate to see him go.

by JasonGoPens on May 27, 2009 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Insert “I told you so” here.

by PensFan024 on May 27, 2009 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was thinking of Fedotenko, too (but I’ve got NYI-tinted lenses). I love watching him when he’s playing like this.

Sweet post, Hooks. I was looking forward to this review.

Lighthouse Hockey: Side effects may include Weight gain and frequent game loss.

by Dominik on May 27, 2009 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Tavares or Hedman? I’m actually kind of been dying to know who the Islanders will pick since I read an issue of the Hockey News that previewed the draft a few weeks ago. It’s kind of exciting. When is the draft?

by kellyn on May 27, 2009 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Is that by any chance the issue that ranks the guys in the draft? I’ve been trying to get my hands on that issue and can’t find it at the book stores.

Follow the Penguins on SBN @ Pensburgh.com and twitter.

by FrankD on May 27, 2009 8:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

I probably used the word ‘read’ as a euphemism for “flipped through it briefly before putting it in the ever-growing ‘must read’ pile of books and magazines on my bedroom floor in favor of Teen Vogue and my English Lit textbook,” but, yeah, it ranks the top one hundred prospects going into the ‘09 draft, including a few in depth articles about the big name prospects (Tavares and Hedman) and mini-profiles of the top sixty. The only issue of The Hockey News I ever found on a news stand or in a bookstore was the special Yearbook edition that came out before the ’08-’09 season.

I bought a subscription for the magazine – and I was supposed to get a free keychain with the logo of the NHL team of my choice on it, but instead of the Devils key ring I asked for they gave me – of all things – a Penguins keychain instead, which I think is all part of some sort of nefarious conspiracy plot hatched by Jim Balsillie in conjunction with THN to convert all Devils fans into to Pens fans so Balsillie can buy the Devils, move them to Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan, change their name and fire any and all personnel left over from the team’s trapping days, thus simultaneously ridding the world of ‘boring’ hockey and granting Mike Brophy’s plea to the Hockey Gods that the Devils never win the Stanley Cup ever again – not they need any outside help to ensure that that happens.

But anyway, it’s a Canadian publication, and I don’t live in Canada, so I usually get each issue a few weeks after it comes out and I’ve never found a copy of THN at any news stands or bookstores since the Yearbook issue. I wonder if maybe they don’t sell it America, or if they do, maybe only in major American cities or cities with an NHL franchise or something. I have no idea.

by kellyn on May 27, 2009 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah I’ve found a few here and there on newstands but those specialty issues are normally hit or miss. Not to be a pain, but did it hit stands this month or last?

Follow the Penguins on SBN @ Pensburgh.com and twitter.

by FrankD on May 27, 2009 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

PS

The only reason I ask is because I refuse to spend $6 for shipping on a $6 issue. If I can get it on the shelf somewhere (if it came out this month) then I’m all for it.

Follow the Penguins on SBN @ Pensburgh.com and twitter.

by FrankD on May 27, 2009 10:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Because it’s the Draft Preview, I think it’s one of the four specialty issues they put out every year (according to the publishing information, the specialty issues come out in February, April, August & October). I got the Draft Preview sometime in late April, so it probably hit the stands last month.

by kellyn on May 27, 2009 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Salary wise Satan ($3.5m) plus Orpik (3.75m) adds up to Hossa, with the monkeying of demoting Satan to fit Guerin in too.

But maybe the Penguins would have had to sign 2 $1 million a year players instead of one $2 million player in Fedotenko for more depth if they had signed Hossa. That’s about the only thing I see there.

by Hooks Orpik on May 27, 2009 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

my 2 cents

I would add that the lack of depth would have been a killer this postseason had Hossa signed (and the other pieces had fallen as you suggest). With Hossa (and without Staal, Kunitz and Guerin), the Pens would have been a more skilled but softer team. One that might easily have folded against either the Flyers or the Caps.

The subtext to this post is that all Pens fans owe Ray Shero a big tip of the hat. Given the number and consequence of the decisions that had to be made this past offseason, and given the adversity the team went through during the regular campaign, the job Shero did on the personnel end really is remarkable.

P is for Latrobe.

by holiday park on May 27, 2009 12:14 PM EDT reply actions  

As a result, maybe Pens fans will show a little faith and won’t call for his firing next year…nah, that is about as likely as Shero cutting Fleury and trading Staal. Oh well, luckily HE is the one running the team.

by Rougue_Behaviorist on May 27, 2009 8:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

I know I posted this earlier but I think it bears repeating.

I hope we can be gracious to Hossa. The guy did something any of us could understand. He took a chance to win a championship. He didn’t take the long term stability of the Pens deal. Or the big bucks of the Oilers deal. He went with the "franchise" who offered him the best chance to hoist the cup. I know it sucks when a big time player leaves for another city. But at least Hossa did it for the respectable reasons. I also think this is a case of the best deals are sometimes the ones you don’t make. I like the Pens financial flexibility. And I also think Guerin, or Jagr could be a realistic addition next year. Who knows.

But to summarize I don’t like the fact that Hossa left for the Red Wings, but I can respect that move. I hope others can as well.

Success without honor is like an unseasoned dish, it will fill you up but it won't taste good. - Joe V. Paterno

by carolinaeasy on May 27, 2009 12:20 PM EDT reply actions  

I don’t expect he will be received in a particularly gracious manner. On the ice, he’s going to be hit fiercely, and come game 3, he’ll be booed upon every touch of the puck. Personally, I have no problem with this. I won’t say that he left for immoral reasons, but he is a turncoat nonetheless, and I feel like any mistreatment he garnishes from the pens and their fans(within rules and guidelines) is well-deserved.

-David
sixminutecynic.blogspot.com
www.piratesmix.com.

by pascaldupweevil on May 27, 2009 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hossa will be hit pretty aggressively but I doubt, from a penguin player’s perspective, that it’s from bitterness, but rather because Hossa is a dericate rittle frower. Although certainly we, as fans, will still get our cathartic joy from watching it.

by pensomniac on May 27, 2009 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

I have a completely different take on it. Hossa did not leave for respectable reasons. He wanted the easiest path to the Cup. He wanted a guarantee. He didn’t want to have to work for it because he felt as if he was owed the Cup for playing in Atlanta for all those years on crappy teams, even though his star burned bright there. Yes, he had every right to ditch the Pens and sign with the Wings. But he didn’t do it for reasons the Hockey Gods would appreciate.

Think about it. Why would Hossa leave the Pens if he really wanted to work for the Cup? The Penguins are guaranteed to be a competitive team year in and year out for the next 5+ years with Crosby and Malkin in the lineup, Fleury in net, and a good, young defensive corps to boot. The Pens would also probably be able to retain Staal for a few years, or at least get quite a few top draft picks for him if he needed to be moved for cap reasons. However, it would be on Hossa’s shoulders to lead and produce if he stayed with the Pens. He couldn’t be a tag-along like he’s been for Detroit this post-season (6G, 6A, tied for 17th in scoring). Hossa would have to put out numbers like he did with the Pens last year on a consistent basis in order for the Pens to raise a cup with him on their team. Which would also mean that Hossa would have to work for it.

Hossa took the easy way out by bailing for a “sure bet”. It takes hard work, grit, determination, heart to raise the Cup. You know, all those qualities inherent in a sure bet/easy decision. The Hockey Gods are not amused.

Pens in 6.

by gorgalor on May 27, 2009 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hossa worked for a cup for a number of years before taking off for detroit. It’s not like this was his third year in the league or something.

by PensFan024 on May 27, 2009 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ray Bourque played 21 seasons with the Bruins before he went to Colorado to win a Cup. Hossa spent 6 seasons with Ottowa, then 3 with Atlanta before he bailed Pitt for his one and only shot at the Cup. At least, that was the justification he tried to make signing with Detroit for less money.

by gorgalor on May 27, 2009 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

True i think alot of people forget about the Ottawa years, i don’t consider him a traitor or anything i will however laugh when we win the cup and he’s on the wrong side AGAIN

by JasonGoPens on May 27, 2009 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

So do you have a in with the Hockey Gods?

Saying he didn’t work for it is preposterous. The guy has worked for a cup since he dreamed of being in the NHL. He went were he felt he had a chance. I don’t like the fact he went but at least he didn’t pull an AROD.

Success without honor is like an unseasoned dish, it will fill you up but it won't taste good. - Joe V. Paterno

by carolinaeasy on May 27, 2009 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hossa had a damn good chance at winning the Cup last year with the Pens. And would have had a great chance at winning the cup with the Pens this year, too. And would have had for the next 6 years if he signed the long-term contract that was offered to him. If winning the Cup was Hossa’s #1 goal, It could easily be argued that hanging around with the Pens would have been Hossa’s best shot.

I still insist that Hossa has chosen the easy road, and has acted accordingly in the playoffs. Hossa is riding the coattails of everyone else around him, and has let everyone else take responsibility for the heavy lifting. Look at his performance in this year’s playoffs: Dan Cleary has more points than Hossa! So does Guerin, E. Staal, Havlat, Fippula, Backstrom, etc. If not for Hossa’s 3-point effort in Game 4, he’d be looking up at Chad LaRose and Jussi Jokinen in the standings. That sounds like a whole lotta coasting and not a lot of working. And Edmonton offered him a 9-year, $81M deal???

by gorgalor on May 27, 2009 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

i wouldnt ever classify winning a stanley cup as easy, regardless whatever team you’re playing for. he felt he was improving his odds & making it easier/feasible, but not easy.

by t1mmy10 on May 27, 2009 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

That is just insane

I was going to go into why, but what is the point. Suffice it to say that as a free-agent the earned the right to go wherever he wanted, as per the collective bargaining, without having to justify himself to you our anyone else.

by Rougue_Behaviorist on May 27, 2009 9:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

While you are most certainly correct, that does not mean Penguins fans are not entitled to any unfavourable thoughts or opinions theye may have of Hossa for his actions. I’m not a Penguins fan (at least not in the conventional sense – my heart belongs to the Devils but it developed a soft spot for the Pens during the regular season and over the course of the playoffs) but even I remember feeling rather unimpressed when I read that Hossa jumped ship to sign with the team that had beaten the Penguins in the Stanley Cup Final, not because I felt he owed loyalty to a team he played only thirty games for, a total that includes both regular season and playoff games, but because it seemed as though Hossa was attempting to hitch a ride to a championship with a team that did not/does not need him to win the Stanley Cup. By defecting to Detroit and openly stating it was because he felt it gave him the greatest chance to win a Cup, Hossa denigrated himself to the hockey equivalent of a mercenary, which he is most certainly within his rights to do, but that does not mean people will respect or praise him for it, nor should he expect them to.

by kellyn on May 27, 2009 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

stop fibbing

its more then just a soft spot. admit it

:P

" I AM CAPATIN CHAOS, and this is my trusty Sidekick cato. Say hello Cato"
Dom Deluise 1933-2009, Cannonball run

by oldtimehockey09 on May 27, 2009 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hossa going to the Red Wings for what he considered his best shot at a Cup isn’t really mercenary behavior, that’s having your pick of teams and being competitive. The ultimate goal is to win the championship and based on his given reasons, joining any other squad would have been handicapping himself unnecessarily. Players routinely take substantial discounts in other sports to play for clubs they feel have the best shot: See the Celtics and their Big Three last year or a number of Patriots acquisitions during the ‘01-’04 stretch.

He turned down hefty packages from Edmonton and Pittsburgh for less money and fewer years in Detroit – that’s pretty much the antithesis of mercenary behavior. I certainly respect him more as a competitor than I would have if he had taken the largest available contract – mercenary would have been apt at that point.

Does Detroit need him to win a Cup? Empirically, clearly not, they won last year with essentially the same roster. However, if you watched the Chicago series, they lost some really key pieces and kept right on ticking in their juggernaut way. Hossa’s (arguably) the third best player in that group behind Datsyuk and Lidstrom. You could argue that Zetterberg is better, but that could go either way – you really knew it when either 40 or 81 were on the ice, they were both making dominant plays in each end. He’s an elite player and a major contributor wherever he skates, be that in Detroit, Pittsburgh, Atlanta or Ottawa.

by Knee high to a duck on May 28, 2009 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

first off. fantastic screen name. secondly again i dont think him turning down the contract offered to him by the pens is the culprit in the anomosity here. i think it is more about the way things went down during that period. no one i think is faulting him for wanting to go to a proven winner. but when you and your agent give all indications of an intent to stay in the burgh then you pull chocks like that it left a sour taste in everyones mouth.

" I AM CAPATIN CHAOS, and this is my trusty Sidekick cato. Say hello Cato"
Dom Deluise 1933-2009, Cannonball run

by oldtimehockey09 on May 28, 2009 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

That would rankle me too – it ensures that the Pens have to keep enough resources available to sign him while other key free agents get taken off the market. There’s an opportunity cost to having that kind of offer rejected, so that’s perfectly fair.

I just disagreed with the use of mercenary, at least in the sense that the word is normally used.

And thanks. I took it out of a Doc Smith book. (Really old science fiction, one of the greats).

by Knee high to a duck on May 28, 2009 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

the funny thing is, every where he has left that team has gone on to win the cup. there is something to be said for having a little bit of heart and intestineal fortitude

" I AM CAPATIN CHAOS, and this is my trusty Sidekick cato. Say hello Cato"
Dom Deluise 1933-2009, Cannonball run

by oldtimehockey09 on May 28, 2009 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Say what? He was drafted by Ottawa, which remains Cup-less, moved to Atlanta, which remains in search of it’s first playoff victory, to say nothing of a series, moved to Pittsburgh, who are back in the finals and now with the Red Wings, who are playing in the finals again.

by Knee high to a duck on May 28, 2009 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

there is some thread on here some where. a guy came up with an intresting stat but i will get you the particulars. yes atlanta is the only no show and needs to be disregarded….ill find it dont you worry.

" I AM CAPATIN CHAOS, and this is my trusty Sidekick cato. Say hello Cato"
Dom Deluise 1933-2009, Cannonball run

by oldtimehockey09 on May 28, 2009 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think you meant gone on TO the Cup because Ottawa didn’t win either. Atlanta never had a place past the first round and Pitt lost with him on board.

Follow the Penguins on SBN @ Pensburgh.com and twitter.

by FrankD on May 28, 2009 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

correct. somthing about a hossa curse. i dunno…its on here somewhere i know it. if not i will start going through records

" I AM CAPATIN CHAOS, and this is my trusty Sidekick cato. Say hello Cato"
Dom Deluise 1933-2009, Cannonball run

by oldtimehockey09 on May 28, 2009 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

boy waas i wrong

i was about as wrong as a neo-conservative on human rights. anyway i did find an intresting little tidbit below

Consider the following
2005-06: Edmonton loses 3-4 to Carolina
2007-08: Pittsburgh loses 2-4 to Detroit
2008-09: He now plays for Detroit

Three finals in four years. Played in all three outdoor games. Hasn’t won jack shit. Ladies and gentlemen, the new Martin Gerber…Ty Conklin.

You can consider this a prediction for the Penguins if you’d like, but really…Kunis. (from nucks misconduct the party likes its 08 thread)

" I AM CAPATIN CHAOS, and this is my trusty Sidekick cato. Say hello Cato"
Dom Deluise 1933-2009, Cannonball run

by oldtimehockey09 on May 28, 2009 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Interesting stat on ConkBlock? He has less than a period of playoff experience under his belt, all recorded when Roloson went down with an injury in the third period of Game 1 in the Stanley Cup finals in 2006 against Carolina. How did Conklin respond? He blundered it away with an atrocious gaffe that cost the Oilers Game 1.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKrDzJdgrsU

by gorgalor on May 29, 2009 1:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

respectable reasons?

yes. but he didnt hafta basically lie about it to our faces while he was doing it (or at least thats the impression i got). thats not respectable.

by t1mmy10 on May 27, 2009 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree with you, carolinaeasy

I don’t think people give Hossa enough credit for what he did for this team, despite is absconding for Detroit. First, I should say that I don’t think that the Penguins mortgaged their future – 2 third line players, a prospect/project at center (if you haven’t noticed, we are not exactly thin at that position) and a draft pick is/was a small price to pay for the experienced all of our young stars gained by making it to the SCF. I for one don’t believe we make it that far w/o Hossa; moreover, I think it is obvious this year how much the Pens benefited from last years playoff experience. Therefore, I don’t know if we make it to either Stanley Cup Final without Hossa’s contribution (and Shero’s shrewd dealings).

So nobody has to agree with me but I remember Hossa fondly and don’t hold his decision against him. Now, don’t get me wrong, nothing would be sweeter than beating him this year, but again I don’t know if it would have even possible without his contribution last year.

by Rougue_Behaviorist on May 27, 2009 8:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

good point. after this thread im starting to think that this is proof that some of the best deals are the ones that dont go through. with hossa we dont have the depth and probably the defense we have now.

" I AM CAPATIN CHAOS, and this is my trusty Sidekick cato. Say hello Cato"
Dom Deluise 1933-2009, Cannonball run

by oldtimehockey09 on May 27, 2009 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'd just like to point out

That Detroit did not, in fact, “jump in with a proposal”…

H0$$A called THEM. Told his agent to call Ken Holland at the gas station and whore him out.
“One-year deal? Make less money than Lidstrom? Sure! Any male bodily organs I can give you? Why not?”
Holland was surprised and amazed. This was not something he seriously planned for.
Good on Marian for chasing and sacrificing for his dream, but he’s a craven tool. If he wanted to go running to Detroit, he could’ve been a bit more explicit about it. A “there’s one other team I need to see about July 1 and I’ll let you know” would’ve been more courteous than leaving everybody hanging, believing he’d be back.

by Exceeding repeating on May 27, 2009 12:58 PM EDT reply actions  

Detroit originally offered Hossa a four year deal…It was Hossa’s call to accept less money than Lidstrom and take a one year contract.

by Hooks Orpik on May 27, 2009 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why didn't he take the four-year deal, then?

He wanted to go to the team that gave him the best chance to win a Cup for one year? He wanted to be a Red Wing, but not so much that he didn’t want to cash out this July 1? Do all the Red Wings fans making noise all year about signing him long-term know this?

Yeah, his decision really looks even more principled in this retrospect. 9_9

by Exceeding repeating on May 27, 2009 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

The four year deal was for less than $7m a year.

Don’t be fooled, Hossa’s all about the $$$, he wasn’t giving Detroit a huge discount, just a one year window to get the Cup.

by Hooks Orpik on May 27, 2009 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

H0$$A?

no way. I’m shocked. There’s no question we’re better off without him, but I just want him proven rather hilariously wrong, and then disposed of. I really don’t care what he does after this, just so long as it’s without a ring.

But how much better would we be if we had Conkblock right now? (/sigh)

by Exceeding repeating on May 27, 2009 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Just excellent!

What an amazing write by Hooks, I am sincerely impressed with your analysis. I see it much in the same way. In a salary cap sport you need to make choices and in this case the choice was simple; one of the best players to play with the two best players in the game or depth.

I told my buddy last summer when Hossa left it was actually a good thing. Signing Hossa would have meant no Orpik and frankly D-men like him don’t grow on trees. Seriously, the Pens have had heavy hitters, Kasper-Ulffy, but none that were as defensively responsible as Orpik. The Pens have some good young D-men in the system, but none of them play the game the way Orpik does.

Not signing Hossa also freed up money to go after other guys. Gratned, in the regular season, Tenks and Satan did not live up to expectations, but have played major roles, Tenks especially, during the playoffs; which is what really matters.

Not getting Hossa also made it viable to keep and sign long term Jordan Staal. Now, I am not of the opinion that Staal is going to turn into a 30-40 guy. I just don’t see it as a third line center, which is all he will ever be as a Penguin. But, he has seemed to embrace his role as a third line checking center and frankly a tribe needs cheifs and indians.

The depth created by not keeping Hossa will lead the Pens to a cup victory in 6 or 7 games for I feel that the Crosby and Malkin are playing like crazed animals that can not be stopped. Detroit will play better D than any other team the Pens have seen thus far and 87-71 will not be putting up rediculus numbers, but they will still be a force. Detroit has 2 ligit lines as well so you figure they cancel each other out. It comes down to 3rd and 4th liners (depth players) to get that 1 goal a game to tip the scales and I love our bottom 5-6 guys more than theirs. I love our goalie when compared to theirs, and with a less than 100% Lindstrom in the lineup I dare to say I prefer our D to theirs.

Question Penguin nation, with all that has been said about whether it was a good or bad thing to let Hossa go do we boo or dare I say cheer Hossa on Igloo Ice? I can be argued that Hossa leaving was the best thing to ever happen to the Pens. Thoughts…..

Lastly, do the Pens keep playing 7 D? It was worked, but I think the Pens are going to need to role 4 lines to wear the WIngs out. But what has Boucher done to deserve getting a seat in the press box? Plus playing 11 forwards means more of what the Pens have best, centermen.

Life is about one simple choice, get busy living or get busy dying

by Dr Tre on May 27, 2009 1:01 PM EDT reply actions  

don't boo him

it pissed me off when he left, but everyone is right, the pens depth really would have taken a huge hit if he had stayed. what we DO know is, the pens have made it back. ya know how when philly boos crosby and crosby shuts them up every time? you want to take that chance with hossa? he’s kind of a streaky player, so i hope the fans at mellon don’t give him any extra motivation. he left to win the cup, so he said. this is his chance. don’t light a fire inside him by booing him every time he touches the puck. sid makes other teams pay, hossa could too.

by blaze1344 on May 27, 2009 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

If I were there, I would give the man a standing ovation...

and then root with all of my heart and soul that he assumes the very same dejected position sitting along the boards as the Penguins hoist the cup in the Igloo.

Booing Hossa would be tasteless and show a less-than-fully-developed hockey I.Q. In other words, I expect him to be booed every time he touches the puck

by Rougue_Behaviorist on May 27, 2009 9:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well now that Jagr is overseas Pitt fans need someone to boo.

Follow the Penguins on SBN @ Pensburgh.com and twitter.

by FrankD on May 27, 2009 9:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

agreed

" I AM CAPATIN CHAOS, and this is my trusty Sidekick cato. Say hello Cato"
Dom Deluise 1933-2009, Cannonball run

by oldtimehockey09 on May 27, 2009 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

great writeup hooks. i think its safe to say that had we signed hossa we wouldnt be here today. no brooksie is a blow to this defensive core that i dont think they can handle.

" I AM CAPATIN CHAOS, and this is my trusty Sidekick cato. Say hello Cato"
Dom Deluise 1933-2009, Cannonball run

by oldtimehockey09 on May 27, 2009 1:06 PM EDT reply actions  

If I take off my Black and Gold glasses personally I applaud Hossa for what he did. He went to Detroit for less money looking for the opportunity to win a championship. In my mind that is commendable. Now, as a Pens fan it is a little insulting to hear that he thought Detroit gave him the best opportunity this year instead of sticking it out with the guys he just went all the way to the finals with. In the end though, it benefited the Pens. Don’t forget that Malkin didn’t sign his contract till after Hossa left town too. Is Geno’s contract as big or as long term with Hossa in town?

by PensFan024 on May 27, 2009 1:42 PM EDT reply actions  

So would Hossa have left if somehow he knew we would be in the finals again, with our engines firing on all cylinders? Would he have left for greener pastures if it was just as green on the side he was on? Well hindsight is 20/20 and i think he is starting to regret that now, i’ve been watching Detroit through the playoffs and they don’t look as dominant as they did last year, Datsyuk and lindstrom are hurting, Osgood has not dominated either, i bet in the back of his head he is already smacking himself for leaving.
But good point on Malkins contract, would we have given him the same one? who knows, but i think Malkin or Hossa, Malkin is an easy choice.

by JasonGoPens on May 27, 2009 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Given how the members of the team that have been picked up in Hossa’s wake have produced, I have serious doubts that a Hossa-laden Pens team would make it back to the Finals. BTW Jason, I’m glad you decided to come over here to Pensburgh and share your thoughts instead of just stirring the ‘Canes fans into a Rage-tinged frenzy. I gotta give it to you though, you’re like the Jarrko Ruutu of Blog Commenters. Just don’t bite anyone’s finger off. :)

-David
sixminutecynic.blogspot.com
www.piratesmix.com.

by pascaldupweevil on May 29, 2009 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

i'll add that

It’s one thing when a star player chooses not to sign with your team; that happens, and shouldn’t be taken to heart. Then again, the way in which Hossa handled the situation with the Pens was, in retrospect, spectacularly lacking in class. If you really want to play for another team, that’s your call to make; making public statements about how your current team isn’t good enough for you is unnecessary and insulting.

Ultimately, being a professional hockey player is about more than just you and your success. Being part of a team and part of a community is important also. What Hossa showed Pittsburgh last offseason is that the team didn’t matter to him and that he didn’t care about the fans here. He’s just a mercenary. And I like my team more without him.

P is for Latrobe.

by holiday park on May 27, 2009 2:12 PM EDT reply actions  

Hossa

I am a pens fan, and I say put Eric Godard on the game 1 roster just to slam the but end of his stick into Hossa’s face and knock him out of the series. the result would be a certain suspension but hey…..Pittsburgh would be happy.

Better yet getting back to reality, just go win the dam cup and make him realize if he just stayed he’d be a Stanley Cup champ!!! Go Pens!!!!

by VETTMAN on May 27, 2009 4:46 PM EDT reply actions  

Players get ripped for the money-first attitude, but a guy makes a dumb financial decision based on desire to win and he still gets ripped. It only bugs me because he had the best of both worlds with the Pens — big guaranteed contract and highly competitive team. It wasn’t like spurning the Kings or Oilers.

by chicos_pants on May 27, 2009 4:58 PM EDT reply actions  

If you're an Arrested Development fan, you'll get this:

Game 7, Stanley Cup Finals. Detroit vs. Pittsburgh. Score is tied 2-2. 10 minutes into the first overtime. Hossa takes the puck, dekes the first forechecker, then builds up speed and heads into the neutral zone. BAM! Kunitz nails Hossa with a devastating check, crumpling him to the ice and leaves him dazed. Kunitz grabs the puck, and hits Crosby screaming in on the right wing. Crosby skates into open ice and rips a shot glove side on Osgood. The puck flies into the net, along with Osgood’s glove and arm attached. The crowd is agasp. All the players on the ice are in shock, on both teams. No one celebrates. Osgood skates to center ice where Hossa, still dazed from the check and the series of events that follows, now sits. Osgood looks at Hossa and says, “And that is why you don’t turn down a lot of money and the chance to play with Sidney Crosby.”

If only the NHL was rigged and they could pull this off…

by gorgalor on May 27, 2009 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

oh im willing to bet that someone in black and gold catches him with his head down

" I AM CAPATIN CHAOS, and this is my trusty Sidekick cato. Say hello Cato"
Dom Deluise 1933-2009, Cannonball run

by oldtimehockey09 on May 27, 2009 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Accidents happen.

Follow the Penguins on SBN @ Pensburgh.com and twitter.

by FrankD on May 27, 2009 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

why did i picture a bank safe falling on hossa? like in a bugs bunny cartoon

Lifes rough, wear a helment

by lambofgad on May 27, 2009 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

After he skates under a ladder and a black cat crosses his path (on the ice of course)

Follow the Penguins on SBN @ Pensburgh.com and twitter.

by FrankD on May 27, 2009 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

so you’re teaching him a lesson by teaching a lesson?

by chicos_pants on May 27, 2009 5:52 PM EDT reply actions  

I don’t know what it is exactly — there’s something about Hossa being a ‘climber’ that does bugs me. Playing for the reigning champs is viewed as a step above playing for the runner up. It shows as weak a commitment to the Wings as it did to the Pens. You get an equal sense he’d ditch the Wings for a top tier team if the Wings slid a notch (not likely for now). At least when baseball players make the $$ move to the Yankees they get seriously paid. No one does it solely because they think the Yankees provide the best path to a ring.

by chicos_pants on May 27, 2009 5:59 PM EDT reply actions  

Yankees last won the World Series in 2000. I think they’re more like the Rangers lately.

by gorgalor on May 27, 2009 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Marian Hossa was a stud for the Pens last year. While I hated to lose him and ESPECIALLY hated to lose Ryan Malone to free agency, I often thought last year that the Pens had too many thoroughbreds and not enough plowhorses to win the Stanley Cup. You need roleplaying guys like Max Talbot, Ruslan Fedetenko, Chris Kunitz; remember Phil Bourque, Troy Loney, Bob Errey? You need solid defensemen, and last but not least, you need a veteran forward who’s won a Cup and is still desperately hungry for another one. In the early 90s, no one enjoyed those two Penguins Cups more than former Islander and four-time champion Bryan Trottier. Could Bill Guerin be this Pens team’s Trottier? Maybe. We’ll see! GO PENS!!!!!

by KrisLuvsthePens on May 27, 2009 7:25 PM EDT reply actions  

great analogy between Trotts and Billy

by Rougue_Behaviorist on May 27, 2009 9:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

amazing post. lets go pens.

12 down, 4 to go. Let's go Pens!

by jetpen89 on May 27, 2009 11:38 PM EDT reply actions  

Hmmm

I dont think people are mad at Hossa for leaving…You go where you want to go…I think the bitter thing about all that was that yes he wants to win a cup, but he strung the pens along until the last moment when all other possible aquisitions were signed by other teams…then leading cros and the management to believe he will sign, he surprisingly signs with Det….I dont dislike Hossa for wanting to play for detroit…I dislike him because of his actions during that transaction.

by farz on May 28, 2009 3:57 PM EDT reply actions  

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