Some thoughts on the Best of 3 Finals
by holiday park on Jun 5, 2009 4:51 PM EDT
22 comments
For entertainment and discussion:
1. What a difference a year makes. In last year's Finals, while the Penguins competed hard and gave us a game 5 for the ages, the Red Wings were clearly the stronger team, taking a stranglehold in games 1 and 2 that they never really relinquished. This time around, the gap between the teams has narrowed considerably. Even when falling behind 0-2 in the series, the Pens played solid (if imperfect) games both times, which could not be said last year. And their execution on home ice has been a thing to behold. Raise your hand if you suggested at the beginning of the postseason that this year's team was arguably better than last year's (raises hand).
2. Mea culpa. Sometimes you're happy to admit that you were wrong about something, and sometimes you aren't. If the Pens manage to finish this thing off and bring the Stanley Cup back to Pittsburgh, I will be very, very, very happy to admit that I was very wrong about Dan Bylsma.
3. What's up with the Red Wings? While the Penguins need to be commended for their play in all four games of this series, it's reasonable to wonder at how the supposedly unbeatable Red Machine has let Pittsburgh take control of this series. To what extent do injury and fatigue have to enter into the discussion? The Wings went through a bruising, brutal 7-game series with Anaheim and a physical series against Chicago, and they're absorbing a fair number of bumps from the Pens as well. And at this point Pavel Datsyuk has just passed Peter Forsberg on the all-time list for "number of news items written about an injured foot". A lot of things likely explain why the Pens were able to even the series at home, but it's fair to wonder: are the Wings running out of gas?
4. True or False: Evgeni Malkin will go down as one of the top 6 or 7 players in NHL history.
5. True or False: When Malkin and Fleury are at the tops of their games, the Penguins are almost impossible to beat.
6. D-FENS. I'm sure, any day now, the hockey press will realize that the Penguins know how to play defense. They shut down the versatile and gifted Philadelphia forwards in round 1 and Eric Staal and Ray Whitney in the ECF, and have largely kept the Red Wings skill players in check. The only player to have a field day against this team was Ovechkin, and let's face it, Ovechkin really is that good.
7. Mea culpa part 2. I haven't been able to take part in the game threads here in games 3 or 4 because of work, but I did want to apologize for losing my cool a bit on the game 2 thread. My job is kind of unimaginably stressful lately, and I was kind of on a short fuse that night. My bad.
8. Game 5 predictions. The pressure would seem to be squarely on the Red Wings Saturday. If you're Pittsburgh, you don't mess around this close to the finish line. So long as they don't have to kill off 18 or 19 Wings power plays, and so long as the linesmen enforce the offsides rule for BOTH teams, the Pens are playing well enough to take this next one on the road. And if they do, one thinks that not even (another) federal bailout will be enough to save Detroit.
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6) great point about how key our defense has been
3) there is no doubt injuries/fatigue/taking time to apply for AARP membership is partly playing a role in the series. that, however, is no excuse because in such a long season w/ long playoffs the ability to stay healthy & near 100% is just another quality like actual skill in defining whether a team is great or a championship team.
8) no doubt all the pressure is on the wings. its on them to “hold serve” cuz if they dont, pens will be rolling into the igloo with the series 3-2 & a ton of momentum. that place would be rockin. some analyst on espn said it best with something like “detroit looks like they know they can lose and pittsburgh looks like they know they can win.” and thats a dangerous thing to give an underdog team (yes, we werent underdogs by THAT much but its a lot different from believing you can win it from the ppl who beat you the year before, than the opportunity staring you back in the face). on the other side i’m sure pittsburgh doesnt wanna hafta play a game 7 in detroit. HUGE game coming up.
As weird as it may sound, I think Game 5 will be easier to win than Game 7. Its essential the Penguins come out firing on all cylinders, or we may be facing elimination back in the Igloo.
At the same time, the Red Wings won’t want to lose 3 in a row and will be looking for their home crowd (and possibly Datsyuk) to re-energize them for another home victory.
"Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force; like fire, a troublesome servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action." - George Washington
by Hockey Beard in SLC on Jun 5, 2009 4:53 PM EDT reply actions
I really think we need to wrap up game 5, there is a 2 day break for 6 and again for 7. So let’s get em while they are down.
Agreed, G5 is going to be the linchpin of the series. Without it, the Pens need to win another 2 straight but with it, they get to have a chance to close it out on home ice.
i think the momentum factor after games 3 and 4 are a bigger deal for the younger Penguins then it is for the Red Wings. Detroit has got some savvy veterans who won’t get rattled by yesterday’s performance, where as the Penguins will be able to look back and say: “See, all the hard work that the 3rd and 4th lines do pays off eventually, keep it up.”
"Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force; like fire, a troublesome servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action." - George Washington
by Hockey Beard in SLC on Jun 5, 2009 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions
kewl
Wow, thanks for the promo to the front page! With regards to (7), it’s nice to know that someone doesn’t hate what I’m writing lately. :)
Anyway, yeah, if the Wings drop game 5 they’re looking at a 3-game losing streak against a strong team, and an elimination game on the road. So you’d expect the world from them tomorrow night. That said, beginning in game 7 of the Washington series, I’ve started to believe that this Pens team invariably steps up when the stage is set for them. They played an awesome game in that game 7, they played awesome games on the road against Carolina, and they played tremendous hockey facing a ton of pressure in games 3 and 4 against Detroit. A part of me believes that once these boys are rolling they’re rolling, and Bylsma will have them ready to execute in game 5.
BTW, I could have added an item (9), which is that I’m very f’ing glad we didn’t sign Hossa. Can’t even count the ways in which that pleases me at this point.
P is for Latrobe.
My pleasure HP.
I’ve been thinking about Hossa in this series and I just can’t allow myself to write him off just yet. I hate to think that his stick may pose as the difference maker in a Detroit win or a Detroit loss.
Follow the Penguins on SBN @ Pensburgh.com and twitter.
I agree…he has had his chances throughout the series. A couple of the famed “lucky bounces” we were talking about all this last week and he could easily have 3 or 4 goals.
(Thanks for my promote as well)
"Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force; like fire, a troublesome servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action." - George Washington
by Hockey Beard in SLC on Jun 6, 2009 1:03 AM EDT up reply actions
still . . .
If we’d signed Hossa, we probably would have traded away Staal. Meaning we wouldn’t have had someone to score that shorthanded goal last night. And if we’d signed Hossa, we probably wouldn’t have acquired Kunitz. Meaning we wouldn’t have had someone setting the table for that Kennedy goal. At this point I’m waiting to see Hossa’s photo on the side of a milk carton (and yes, if someone on this site could create a graphic of Hossa’s face on a milk carton that would be great). It takes all kinds of players to win a Cup, not just scorers. And the Pens have all kinds of players, to a degree they would not if they’d signed Hossa.
P is for Latrobe.
Yeah Hooks took a pretty good look at where we would be with Hossa before this series. As far as I’m concerned it’s way more beneficial without him, especially long term.
Follow the Penguins on SBN @ Pensburgh.com and twitter.
i remember that
And yes, long-term it’s not even close. I just think it’s also more beneficial short-term. It’s fascinating to me that Pierre Lebrun (on ESPN) had an interview with Randy Carlyle where the coach basically made the point I’ve made since this Finals matchup was set: you can wear the Wings down if you’re physical enough with them. With Hossa we would NOT be playing that style.
P is for Latrobe.
RE: Hossa on milk carton
I threw one together real quick using PowerPoint. You can view it on my Pens blog….I couldn’t get it to load up here….
I've learned.... That having a child fall asleep in your arms is one of the most peaceful feelings in the world.
All women are created equal, then some become firefighters.
Posted a link to the page on Fan Shots…..
It’s not the greatest, but it’s all I could come up with during my lunch time at work!
I've learned.... That having a child fall asleep in your arms is one of the most peaceful feelings in the world.
All women are created equal, then some become firefighters.
so kind of a break in discussion but Fleury played the game of his life last night…..he was almost flawless….which makes me so much more confident for game 5, also has anyone else noticed on games where we hold our own on the faceoff we do so much better. I really hope we do the same again in D-town.
by Hockey'syoungergun on Jun 6, 2009 2:12 AM EDT reply actions
game 1 was a fluke. i have never seen a team get whooped so bad in the circle in my life. we only won 20% or something like that.
" I AM CAPATIN CHAOS, and this is my trusty Sidekick cato. Say hello Cato"
Dom Deluise 1933-2009, Cannonball run
by oldtimehockey09 on Jun 6, 2009 3:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Definitely a fluke. Even game 4 we only won about 40-45% of the face offs but we still pretty much dominated the play in the later half of the game.
Staal needs to work on his draws, he only had a few wins and with the amount of face-offs he is on the ice for we need him to at least pull 50%.
I expect play in Game 5 to be similar to Game 4, we need to watch out for the bouncy-boards.
"Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force; like fire, a troublesome servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action." - George Washington
by Hockey Beard in SLC on Jun 6, 2009 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Re: #4 - Malkin one of the greatest
It is way too early to make predictions about the career trajectory of any of the Pens’ top players.
Malkin looks great now, but don’t forget that he has been pretty inconsistent so far in his career…. and again, he’s only 22.
Anyway, I think that 4 players on the roster could turn out to be great, if all goes well. Of course, that would be Crosby, Malkin, Staal and Fleury (ignoring rentals/graybeards like Guerin & Gonchar). Right now, everyone is down on Staal, but it’s important to remember that the kid is 20 years old. He can only go up. And that can be said for all 4. Each has the potential to be great, but only time will tell.
5 - 7 years from prime
and another thing to keep in mind is that all 3 of the Pens’ centers are still 5 years or so from entering the traditional “prime time” of their careers. Crosby can’t even grow a beard yet … for whatever it’s worth.
Also, we have them tied up in long-term contracts for the next 4-5 years…Which allows them the time to develop.
Like was said, the only way for those players is up.
"Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force; like fire, a troublesome servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action." - George Washington
by Hockey Beard in SLC on Jun 6, 2009 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Consistency on their wings.
We, and by me I mean YOU!(points at Ray Shero), need to start having some consistency on the wings. Don’t get me wrong, Shero’s done a fantastic job in my estimation… and It’s nice that we’ve gotten lucky the past two years at the trade deadlines with Hossa and Guerin/Kunitz, but I think these three young centers would really benefit from looking across the ice at the same guys for an entire season or two.
-David
sixminutecynic.blogspot.com
www.piratesmix.com.
by pascaldupweevil on Jun 8, 2009 12:19 AM EDT up reply actions
It may not be as much about age as, to borrow a term from Bill Simmons, odometer. It may be that players only have a certain number of games in them before their legs go and they’re not as effective, regardless of age. It’s certainly true of running backs in the NFL and it looks true in the NBA. Granted that the NBA isn’t anything like the NHL in terms of physicality, but those running backs absorb a lot of punishment.
The point is for players that start in the pros very young, the “Prime” may come earlier in their life than we’re accustomed to for players of lesser ability.
by Knee high to a duck on Jun 6, 2009 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree there is a lot of potential in these teams, but you also have to look at the current level of play. we are up against one of the best teams in the nhl and are even. If potential is what’s that’s called then it should be a great few years.
by Hockey'syoungergun on Jun 6, 2009 2:16 PM EDT reply actions
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