The Atlantic Division's Top 10 forwards
by Hooks Orpik on Jul 30, 2009 6:00 AM EDT
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Let's take DMG's idea that he had at Japers Rink, fashion it towards the Atlantic Division and get started over here with our own debate, shall we?
Behind the jump the sure-to-be controversial Top 10 rankings of forwards within the division...Malkin or Crosby, who will be #1? And did I really list three Flyers? Gross.
#10 - Jordan Staal - Center, Pittsburgh Penguins
Homer pick? Perhaps but Jordan Staal put up a fair number of points and ought to only improve his production. His two-way play makes him one of the best PK'ers in the division and helped him get invited to Team Canada's Olympic camp. That's worthy enough to crack this list.
#9 - John Tavares - Center, New York Islanders
no stats
The 18 year old Tavares is the most touted draftee since, well, Sidney Crosby. But that alone won't help him climb these rankings, he starts at the nine spot but could quickly be a Top Fiver if he establishes himself in the NHL as quickly as he did dominating in Juniors.
#8 - Simon Gagne - Left Wing, Philadelphia Flyers
Gagne has some injury question marks but has made it mostly intact through three of the past four seasons. Here's his goals/points stats in those three seasons: 47/79, 41/68, 34/70. That's big time. There's little doubt that when healthy, he'll fill the net.
#7 - Marian Gaborik - Left Wing, New York Rangers
Like Gagne, Gaborik has had durability concerns, but little concern about his pure skillset. Anyone that can average over a point/game in Minnesota's old oppresively defensive system has some talent. Now on broadway and unshackled from the neutral zone trap, it'll be interesting to see how this newcomer does.
#6 - Patrik Elias - Left Wing, New Jersey Devils
Often overlooked, Patrik Elias can be quietly a very consistent and dynamic offensive player. Elias finished 21st in the league in points and he's been doing it for a while. Elias has averaged 28 goals since the 1999-2000 season, that's a long time of consistencty.
#5 - Jeff Carter - Center, Philadelphia Flyers
Carter has a breakout season in 2008-09 when he finished 2nd in goals scored to Alex Ovechkin. Carter has the size (6'3, 200) and skill to be a premiere NHL forward for a long time at just the age of 24. He's got size, a good shot and a willingness to go into the high traffic areas to score them.
#4 - Mike Richards - Center, Phialdelphia Flyers
Versatility is a good thing to have as a hockey player and Richards excels in many areas. He serves as the Flyers captain, he can score goals and set them up, he led the league in shorthanded goals and was a few votes shy of winning the Selke trophy for the best defensive forward in the league. Richards also plays an abrasive style that annoys opposing players and fans equally, but there's substance behind it. Mike was credited with 147 hits and tied for the league high (among forwards) with 90 blocked shots.
#3 - Zach Parise - Left Wing, New Jersey Devils
Parise, listed at 5'11 isn't an imposing player in stature, but he sure is when it comes to production. 2008-09 saw him ranked 3rd league-wide in goals, only four players outscored him and they were superstars in Malkin, Ovechkin, Crosby and Datsyuk. Further, Parise was 3rd in shots on goal, tied for 7th in game winning goals and had the 8th best plus/minus in the whole of the NHL. It might be argued no forward had a finer all-around regular season than Parise did in 08-09. But alas, that's only good enough to get him recognition as the 3rd best forward in the division at this point in time.
#2 - Evgeni Malkin - Center, Pittsburgh Penguins
Can you rank the reigning scoring champion in the regular season AND the playoffs as just the second best forward in his division? Maybe it's a 1 and 1A situtation, but Malkin gets the nod here as the #2. Geno has displayed dominance, improving his assist and point total every season in the NHL. When he's on his game there isn't a more forceful offensive player in the league. For Malkin to get to #1 he's got to improve his consistency a little, he can seem a little aloof for shifts/games, the peaks and valleys of his game are still there even though he's undoubtedly a star. Also Malkin has struggled in the faceoff circle (42.4%), another small blemish that detracts from this ranking, even if he did lead the league in turnovers and is more than adequate without the puck.
#1 - Sidney Crosby - Center, Pittsburgh Penguins
Again, probably controversial to slot Sid ahead of Geno, but given Crosby has a superior point/game average and does display the consistent play shift to shift, game to game, he's the choice as the top dog in the Atlantic. Crosby's working on rounding out his game, becoming more fluent in the defensive zone and in 2008-09 won more than 50% of his faceoffs for the season. Crosby also took 1600+ faceoffs, good for 5th in the league there. His team leans on him for the important times and that's another reason to boost him here. Crosby dealt with a myriad of nagging injuries throughout the regular season which kept him out of the top of the points race, but seems certain to be a contender each and every year. He's the captain of the Stanley Cup champs and led the league with 15 playoff goals (10 at even strength). That's why Sidney Crosby is the Pensburgh top forward in the Atlantic.
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So what do you think? Crosby over Malkin justified after Geno had the superior statistical season? Only one NY Ranger makes the list, should a guy like Chris Drury or Nikolai Zherdev have cracked the top 10? Tavares at #9 could be seen as too high since he hasn't proven anything or maybe too low by some, since he's below guys like Gagne and Gaborik who can't stay on the ice for large stretches of time. If you want to make any differences or debates on rankings, feel free to make your case in the comments.
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John Tavares?
I’m confused on him even being placed in this ranking. The other 9 spots, I agree with.
Tavares scored 58 goals last year in juniors and is going to be the top dog for the Islanders from Day 1. I think his skill and potential merits him an entry.
Who would you list above Tavares: Zherdev or Drury? Hartnell? Kunitz or Guerin?
I think Tavares ought to be a better player than the above named, though it’s very possible some of them will be better in 2009-10.
Pensburgh.com -- it's like the Max Talbot of blogs*
*not just because we only work for 12 minutes a night
Your reasoning makes complete sense, I was just under the impression that this list would have been from players that had stats in the NHL.
Oh I gotcha. I admit it’s risky to list Tavares, every rookie is an unknown until they get out there, but the idea, to me, was the best 10 forwards in the division right now. By way of getting drafted, Tavares is just as much in the division as a new face like Gaborik, to me.
Gaborik has played in the NHL, of course, so he’s a known quantity. But still unknown how he’ll fare in the East Conference and under the bright lights of New York City.
Pensburgh.com -- it's like the Max Talbot of blogs*
*not just because we only work for 12 minutes a night
by Hooks Orpik on Jul 30, 2009 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions
I questioned Tavares, too, but you defended the point pretty well. The Islanders fans are sure happy enough to see him. It’s pretty obvious why. I’m interested in seeing how he does, too.
"Darling, you say Brooks Orpik 'checked' that guy. He did not 'get under him and put him into the wall'."--Beloved to me, Winter 2007
by GreenEyedLilo on Jul 30, 2009 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions
His first game is against the Pens. That means he’ll score a hat trick. It’s just part of that weird twist of luck for the Pens whenever they go up against a rookie. See also Carey Price or Al Arbour’s milestone win total.
Follow the Penguins on SBN @ Pensburgh.com and twitter.
Sid really needs a full healthy season. I guess playing 77 games and picking up 103 points IS considered a healthy season, but what I really mean is, one that doesn’t have him playing a few games hurt or hobbling around on some sort of undisclosed injury. Fans of other teams are always quick to jump on how much Sid “sucks” or how he can’t provide leadership because he lacks experience, but when you think about how many games he’s played injured or even how well he’s done in doing so, you really can’t knock the guy. Some don’t need to be loud and boisterous. They can just lead by example.
Follow the Penguins on SBN @ Pensburgh.com and twitter.
There are few things I love in an athlete more than a willingness to play hurt, but I do have to say I wish Crosby could do it less.
"Darling, you say Brooks Orpik 'checked' that guy. He did not 'get under him and put him into the wall'."--Beloved to me, Winter 2007
by GreenEyedLilo on Jul 30, 2009 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Very tough list to compile, because IMO it’s pretty top heavy, meaning a case for each of the top 5 being #1 could be made.
I’m going to have to disagree with you putting Crosby first though. I actually think Malkin is not only the best forward in the Atlantic, I’d be willing to argue he might be the best player in the NHL hands down. I’ve seen the guy from the juniors and I’ve always thought he was better then AO even, simply because his defensive game is better. Yes, he may be aloof at times, but maybe that’s just a cultural thing.
The bottom two (#9/10) are also pretty tough. It’s actually kind of sad, that you even have to consider Tavares, but like you’ve already said, there just aren’t too many other names that jump out at you. Here’s a couple that maybe worthy..
Zajac. He put up better numbers than Staal, plus he was an astounding +33
Okposo. Didn’t start out great, but finished pretty well. Next year with Tavaras at C, the kid could blow up.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Jul 30, 2009 2:59 PM EDT reply actions
Thanks for the join and comment.
I agree the case can be made for Malkin over Crosby…AndGeno over anyone. When he is “feeling it” and has momentum and confidence there is no better player. Like that Carolina series when he simply could not be stopped.
Funny you should list Zajac and Okposo those were the two guys that it pained me to leave off. I gave Drury some consideration too, but he’s had a couple of lackluster seasons. I almost listed Zajac over Staal but gave the edge to Jordan in terms of his size and skill level.
Pensburgh.com -- it's like the Max Talbot of blogs*
*not just because we only work for 12 minutes a night
I think we are blessed that we are likely going to be arguing about #1 and #2 for a long time.
I’d go with Geno right now. In the past, he seemed like he’d be gassed for some shift- but that seemed to be less frequent late this season. I think he hits that extra gear, a “game-breaker” mode, on both ends of the ice more frequently than Crosby.
That said, I doubt Geno is as effective without Sid taking a lot of the spotlight. I’ll just be happy as long as they continue negating each other’s chances at MVPs.
I’d move Gagne up ahead of Gaborik and Elias simply because his game is so much more well-rounded. Gagne is one of the best PK guys in the league, and is obviously dangerous 5 on 5 and on the PP. Post-lockout/Hep C Elias doesn’t do it for me but I can’t think of a guy in the division that is ready to knock him out of the top 10. The one dark horse that I think could crack this list and hasn’t been mentioned is Claude Giroux. He should get a more prominent role this season and he’s got tons of talent.
Giroux was dangerous in the playoffs but we’ll hold off on him until he proves it for a full season…I definitely agree he is “one to watch”.
Pensburgh.com -- it's like the Max Talbot of blogs*
*not just because we only work for 12 minutes a night
I would put Giroux in Tavares’s place, personally. He displayed some pretty amazing skills in the NHL playoffs (against a team you might consider pretty good), while Tavares has yet to play outside of his age group.
I have to think the two x-factors in this division are Gaborik and Giroux. Giroux looks like he’s headed for a breakout year and if Gaborik can put together one healthy season, he’s a rich man’s Martin Havlat: skates like the wind, great shot and can find his teammates, too. Of course, if he gets injured all production bets are off.
by Knee high to a duck on Aug 1, 2009 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions
id put kunitz up there too i don’t think tavares deserves to be on this list yet. hasn’t proved anything at this level. and he is on the islanders
by guns dont kill people pittsburgh does on Jul 30, 2009 8:16 PM EDT reply actions
Personally, I’d rank Geno over Crosby. While Crosby is much better at face-offs, I think I really came away impressed with Geno’s defensive zone play this last year. The first two years in the league, Geno was a bit of a defensive liability. Often trying to do too much. Dancing through four skaters to get into the offensive zone only to lose the puck and cause a turnover. Last year, he still would do that every once in awhile, but unlike the past, he’d put his head down and skate hard to breakup the odd-man rush. And as stated, you have to love his game-breaker ability. When he’s on— it’s so evident, that there is no hockey player even in the same class.
If you consider what the player means to his team, then I’d rank Mike Richards at the #3 spot to be consistent with Crosby at #1 and Geno at #2. Mike Richards does everything you want your Captain to be. He’s under-sized, but sure doesn’t play like that. If you’re a Flyers fan, you can’t help but love that. (btw I am not a Flyers fan)
I’d move Zach Parise down to #4. Parise had an amazing breakout season this past year, but in considering how important a player is to the team, I’d still rank him below Richards.
Simon Gagne and Marian Gaborik have both been injury-prone in their careers. However, one is more injury-prone than the other. It’s difficult to say how many points Gaborik would’ve put up playing outside of Lemaire’s Wild system—but I think all bets are on Gaborik putting up more points under a Torts system. Still with Gagne’s Olympic gold, I’d rank him a spot above Gaborik.
I’d slot the unproven Tavares at #10 just to give the Isles some representation.
No love for Jamie Langenbrunner? I’d slot him at the #9 slot (substituting for J Staal). He’s tough as nails. Won several Stanley Cups. A more consistent scorer than Staal. And the Captain of his team. While Staal is likely to develop into a consistent 30 goal threat in his career, at this point in their careers, I think Langenbrunner is the better player, and more important to his team’s success.
If I had to place a New York Ranger on the list, I’d select Ryan Callahan. The closest player the Rangers have to the god of hockey, Max Talbot. Unlike his teammates, he isn’t an overpaid “has-been.” And makes the most of his size and talent. Torts loves the kid, and that’s saying a lot.
Where hockey injuries in San Diego are thumb blisters from playing too much NHL 09
Malkin's defense was a huge factor in the playoffs this year.
I can’t remember how many times I saw him backchecking or making a steal to break up the other team’s offensive rush. He didn’t do that as much in past years, but he was great late this last season.
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