Sidney Crosby vs. Alex Ovechkin: Round 6,831,232

Good point, gorgalor….Every year Crosby has improved his faceoff percentage. Every year I think he’s dedicated himself to refining his game as a more complete player with and without the puck.

I don’t think Ovechkin’s taken as many steps to improve away from the puck. Totally subjective on my part to say that, but that’s how I see it.

Neither will probably play much PK time as their coach’s don’t want them hurt (see Datsyuk, Pavel breaking his foot blocking a shot) but I think Crosby’s game is more refined and will continue to improve over the years. Crosby also plays a position more conducive to playing defense and the whole length of the rink, which gives him more room for improvement. Wingers don’t have to have that much defensive reponsibility.

AO is a puck hog that takes cheap runs at anyone he can hit on the ice, and has no concept of playing defense.

You’re a hack. Seriously, get a real argument.

He takes umpteen million shots from every angle possible, and had a shooting percentage last year of .106 on 528 shots.

Is the point to have the highest shooting percentage or the most goals? Cuz I don’t remember anyone scoring more goals than him.

He might not have the entertainment value that AO does, but Crosby will easily win more Cups than AO throughout their careers.

It’s a team game, what’s your point?

Also, it’ll be interesting to see what happens to Ovie once another superstar emerges in Washington, be it through trade, or internal development. What if it wasn’t all about AO 24/7?

This is a great point. Doesn’t everyone remember how he pouted all year long while Mike Green got Norris hype? Or how he Nick Backstrom has consistently been getting more leaguewide attention? Or when Varlamov was singlehandedly (in some circles) given credit for winning the first round of the playoffs? He’s a great teammate that doesn’t hesitate to give credit to other players, whether they be 4th line guys or stars. This is a non-issue that you are creating with your own bias.

AO will never be better than he is right now. It’s all downhill from here.

On what grounds to you base this? Stud players get better through their 20s. His prime will be somewhere between 27-32, just like any other player. Barring injury he’s going to continue to get better, and let’s face it, the injury thing could bite any player at any time. It’s easier to see Crosby’s increase in face off percentage because it’s easy to quantify. It’s harder to see a wing’s defensive addition so people just aren’t going to give AO credit for it. If you watched him every game you’d see he has continued to work and improve in that area.

Ovechkin? You’d build WWE franchise around…

…I coulda sworn that there was an NHL franchise built around him.

I would say that the reason Crosby has won more playoff games and a Stanley Cup is not because he is better than Ovechkin, but because Malkin and Fleury are better than Ovechkin’s teammates. Remember, Malkin was deservedly the playoff MVP, not Crosby.

I definitely agree. Hockey is too much of a team sport and has too many moving pieces to pin all the success (or blame) on just one guy in most cases. “Your best players have to be your best players” as they say, but you also need the support players (Fedotenko, Talbot, Eaton, Scuderi, etc) to come through or you have no chance of winning it all.

Crosby could score 0 points in the Olympics and Canada’s stacked enough to win the gold. Probably the same for AO and Russia. Would either be deserving of ultimate credit in that scenario?

All of this. Well said b_rider.

I completely agree with your assessment that all three players play different games, and most of who we might determine is the “best player” comes down to personal preference. The only point that I do have an issue with is the assertion that team results should not matter.

You are right in point out that the Pens assortment of players were better than the Caps’ equivalents, which partly has resulted in Crosby/Malkin > Ovechkin in the Cup department. However, hockey is a team game, and selecting a “best player” should also include an assessment of how that player performs in a team capacity, and affects the players around them. Unfortunately, determination of such team leading skills/attributes are subjective and difficult to measure without having your name firmly etched in the Stanley Cup. In the Pens’ post season run last year that culminated in a Game 7 win over the Red Wings in Detroit, the Pens stars (Crosby, Malkin, et al) were able to overcome a 2-0 deficit, and a Game 7 in Washington to defeat the second seeded Caps. Simply put, if Crosby/Malkin have similarly great seasons to Ovechkin, tie goes to the player with the most rings. After all, it takes more than just talent to win the Cup.

You know, I haven’t thought about that, but now it seems so obvious I want to slap my own forehead for missing it!

Solid point. A center’s role on the ice is entirely different of that expected from a winger.

Dead on Jeff. That is really issue at hand. But, Malkin and Ocho play different positions, but I feel a comparison can be made because although they play different positions, they do play similar roles.

I agree with this. It’s going to be a debate that follows their careers (hopefully long, healthy careers for all parties involved; for the sake of the players, fans of the teams, and anybody that just enjoys good hockey) and I don’t think there will ever be a definitive year that people will say “this is conclusive.” They are all awesome players. No team would turn them down and torturing numbers won’t ever change that.

and?

There’s no comparison between Jagr and AO so I don’t know what your point is with that. AO has played 4 seasons and been the cornerstone of a rebuild. There’s still time; I don’t see how Crosby/Malkin winning a Cup first is at all definitive in respect to the argument about their respective talents. Hopefully this story is going to play out over 15-20 years with all parties staying healthy.

If you look at the list of successful shootout artists AO isn’t anywhere near the top; and I think if you look at the list of best shootout scorers you’ll see that most of them aren’t what you’d consider elite talents. It’s not really a correlation. I actually disagree that AO has much more individual talent than Crosby, but ok. To say that AO doesn’t play a team game or work on his weaknesses is just not accurate. You played the game so I assume you realize you can’t get to the level he’s at without a ton of hard work. He’s one of the hardest workers on the ice and always gives his all.

I’m not sure what you meant by the “Gretzky” and “Lemieux” comment. If you mean that they are both elite talents and it comes down to a matter of taste and people will always argue about who they like more, then I completely agree with you. Notice how I haven’t once tried to convince anyone that they should think AO is better than Crosby/Malkin (and I seconded b_rider when he said it’s a matter of preference, as well). I’m over that. I’m responding to ridiculous characterizations of AO that make him sound like he’s lucky to even be in the league. Look at the comment that drew me out of the shadows of internet lurking and ask if you really think that’s an honest evaluation of AO. He won two straight MVPs as voted by the media and the players; you can disagree with the most recent one (I don’t think you can really disagree with the 07-08 one) but you can’t really think that the players and media are so ignorant as to grant the MVP award to such a deficient player, with such glaring weaknesses and flaws, can you?

I’ve actually played the game for many years and still play the game (and, fwiw because i guess it matters I’ve skated on NHL ice as well). At least you can recognize that I am cool and smart. I also speak French – in Russian