UPDATED: NHL investigating FSN Pittsburgh for withholding tape of Flyers' goal, network suspends staff member, son of former Penguin Lowell MacDonald
Pic posted by 700 Level
Update [6:11pm] - The Post-Gazette's Shelly Anderson reports that FSN Pittsburgh has suspended a staff member responsible for not sending the video replay along to the NHL. To make matters worse, and only further strengthen conspiracy theories, the man suspended is the son of former Penguin Lowell MacDonald (1970-78).
[Original Post:]
Remember when Simon Gagne put a shot on net against the Penguins last Thursday night and we all more or less agreed it looked like a goal? Well, we weren't the only ones, outside of Flyers fans of course.
The league is investigating why we didn't get all angles of the replay," Meagher said.
Meagher said FSN should have sent all of the replays, and that it does not have the right to pick and choose which replays it sends.
"You can't have that happen," he said. "The league is concerned and it is being addressed."
The NHL is apparantly investigating FSN Pittsburgh for having potentially withheld tape during the replay portion of the game. As you may recall, the ruling on the ice was a no-goal. After a video review in which it seemed like the refs had inconclusive evidence that it would remain a no-goal, FSN Pittsburgh showed an angle of the goal that more or less concluded that it was in the net.
In the end it might not matter much because the Flyers still won the game 7-4, although one could argue that Simon Gagne was robbed of his 500th career point (he'd later pick it up on home ice Saturday night). But for posterity's sake, more so since no one wants to give Flyers fans more reason to believe in any sort of conspiracy theories, I really hope this doesn't turn out to be a bigger deal than it should be.
This is going to get weird. Especially given the fact that one of the FSN Pitt announcers (can't remember which one and don't want to single out one over the other) said, "We saved that one!" when the FSN-Pittsburgh angle was shown after the ruling. Simon Gagne has also gone on record as saying the network should be "fined heavily."
As you can imagine, Broad Street Hockey is all over this as well both here and here.
Video of the goal/no-goal call after the jump.
UPDATE: Includes FSN clip and the NHL.com clip
UPDATE: Here's the FSN clip:
And here's the other one:
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This is awful. It lends credence to anti-Penguins consipiracy theories even though the Penguins organization itself wasn’t involved. Also, it’s super-easy to imagine the shoe on our own feet—of course we’d be as upset as the Flyers and their fans are. I hope this can get resolved really quickly, but I have a feeling this will linger for a while.
That “We saved that one” comment is defo suspicious. We’ll probably have a different announcer at FSN Pittsburgh (and a few other different people on the crew) before this is over.
"Darling, you say Brooks Orpik 'checked' that guy. He did not 'get under him and put him into the wall'."--Beloved to me, Winter 2007
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Mike burned all his bridges at FSN. Not going to happen.
by SlayerGhaleon on Jan 12, 2010 2:05 PM EST up reply actions
Honestly, I’m not mad about the situation at all if we’re talking in the context of the game. I wasn’t even mad at the time because at that point I felt pretty confident in the Flyers winning at that point. Besides, Gagne was allowed to get his 500th point at home on Saturday because of it.
I’m bothered by the fact that it’s just such an egregious error on FSN’s part. It takes something away from the game. It’s cheating the game. And if this happened once and if the NHL is reliant upon broadcast crews to get video, how often does this sort of thing happen and go unreported? It’s a scary thought and I think every hockey fan should be upset about it when thinking about it in that regard.
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by Travis Hughes on Jan 12, 2010 3:58 PM EST up reply actions
It also shows a ridiculous level of incompetence on the part of the NHL. In my mind there is absolutely no reason the NHL shouldn’t know what camera angles are available in every arena. They should already know where cameras are in the Igloo and they should realize when an angle is missing. Sure, in the heat of the moment the war room might overlook and angle or forget, but that’s not acceptable either. There’s a reason the NHL is a premier sports league that makes literally hundreds of dollars a year.
Now let's say you and I go toe to toe on bird law and see who comes out the victor.
by Rob Parker on Jan 12, 2010 4:25 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I think you’re right on about the bigger point here. It’s not about FSN… You would think the NHL would have a better handle on this stuff.
I know sometimes that NFL teams will sometimes not show a controversial replay on their big screens, but that has nothing to do with what a referee looks at.
It’s good that they’ll get to look at something like this before it happened at a time that actually mattered.
Right, what they show in-arena is a separate issue. You can be damn sure the NFL knows exactly where the cameras are in every stadium and knows what feeds are available. Apparently the NHL doesn’t.
That’s not to say I don’t think it’s atrocious behavior by FSN, because it is. I don’t care how strong your rooting interest is there is no justification for something that could manipulate the outcome of a game. But it’s pretty obvious to everyone that FSN screwed up; I don’t think anyone is defending them, that’s why I’m more concerned with the big picture stuff on how the NHL allowed it to happen.
Now let's say you and I go toe to toe on bird law and see who comes out the victor.
I agree with that: don’t even put it in the hands of the home team. They’re all biased and guess what angles they’re going to highlight?
You come at the king, you best not miss.
I was surprised to learn that they do things that way. I guess I had always assumed it wasn’t in the hands of the home team…
I would have also been surprised that Comcast was so cheap they wouldn’t do their own feed, but living in Comcast Country I realize how terrible they are.
Now let's say you and I go toe to toe on bird law and see who comes out the victor.
It’s kinda typical. I’d be shocked if FSN didn’t use CSN’s feed when in Philly. Maybe now they will, though, who knows.
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by Travis Hughes on Jan 13, 2010 5:11 PM EST up reply actions
Similar to the recent Mark McGwire steroids admission, you almost have to wonder, “Who else has done something like this?” Was FSN-Pitt the first to get caught? Have others gotten away with it? I guess we can’t expect a Mitchell Report or anything for something like this, but you almost wonder 1) Why the NHL doesn’t have a handle on the feeds instead of the network and 2) Will that change?
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In case you were interested: http://www.pensburgh.com/2010/1/12/1247477/buzz-manager-ranks-pensburgh-5th
Follow the Penguins on SBN @ Pensburgh.com and twitter.
We’re number 5! We’re number 5! We’re number 5!
Congrats to everyone, it’s the site and comments that make it fun.
(Don’t know how Pensblog, Down Goes Brown, Empty Netters and Puck Daddy didn’t make it, they’re definitely all in my top 5)
You come at the king, you best not miss.
Puck Daddy probably didn’t make it because he is part of Yahoo! They disqualified anyone attached to a major media outlet so I think Yahoo probably counts. DGB and Fear the Fin are the two that I thought were egregiously overlooked. Congratulations to you guys.
Now let's say you and I go toe to toe on bird law and see who comes out the victor.
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Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Travis Hughes on Jan 13, 2010 5:12 PM EST up reply actions
Bob Errey said it
“We saved that one”
I found it suspicious that they only showed the angle 1 time and then it seemed to just disappear from the face of the earth, but honestly, who cares? they still won by 3 goals that night
And I don't want to hear any sh!t about conspiracies
because this exact same thing happened to the pens on a much much much bigger scale. 2 years ago (the Hossa era) in the playoffs in the EASTERN CONFERENCE FINALS against the PHILADELPHIA FLYERS a clear-cut goal was called “no goal”. so if they start flapping their jaws just remind them of this…


Bad Analogy
I remember this incident and I agree, that was 99.99% likely a Crosby goal, and it certainly is a problem with the way the rule is written that the judges can’t use logic, in which case both Crosby and Gagne would have been awarded their goals and we wouldn’t be having this debtate. In the Gagne case, Johnson couldn’t have pushed the puck out of the net unless the puck had been in the net.
But beyond the inability of the video goal judges to use logic is where your comparison of the two situations fails. In the Crosby incident, Toronto had all of the available VIDEO angles but could not conclusively overturn the ref’s on-ice decision based thereon.
Your argument would hold up IF Toronto could use photographs taken in the building. Then, they would have had access to the shot taken by the newspaper reporter’s photograph which you cited and posted (it’s also why you didn’t see it until the next day). Heck, maybe they could start asking people in the seats to start sending their photos in by email before making a call!
But since they don’t have that access, that’s where your analogy ends. Because in the Gagne incident, an angle which WAS available to Toronto was INTENTIONALLY WITHHELD by the HOME TEAM’s video producers. That is a violation of the league’s rules which mandate that all angles must be provided to Toronto, regardless of whether or not they are broadcast. When the guy at fault is the son of a former Penguin, how can you not suspect collusion?
In short, a “fan” effected the outcome of the game, which is not fair to either team, or in this case, the player. Gagne currently has 11 career SHG’s. Let’s say that Gagne stays with the Flyers for his career and scores another 21 before he’s forced to retire. This “fan” in Pittsburgh robbed Gagne of an all-time Flyers record, unless you put an * next to his name with the caption “record setting goal disallowed due to Pens fan’s malfeasance”.
In short, if human fallibility results in a call gone wrong, that’s something that I think all hockey fans, and sports fans in general, can live with. If intentional misconduct results in a call not being made, you effect the integrity of the game.
I’m waiting for Lowell MacDonald’s public apology to Simon Gagne, to the Flyers and most importantly, to fans of the game. I’m suspecting it won’t come, but please let me know if it does and I miss it. I’m sure the NHL won’t be doing anything to publicize it.
guess I forgot to mention...
^ that camera angle was withheld during the live broadcast. these pictures didn’t come out until the next day
yes yes I do remember that. I made a post about it and everything. Good call.
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Not true
That shot was taken by a newspaper photographer. If you’ve got a video clip showing that angle and that was still a ‘no goal,’ I’d be shocked. If you go back and read the moderator’s post in the archive, there is no mention whatsoever that this video was withheld from Toronto. I would think Pens fans would have been similarly outraged had this situation happened to your team.
GW40 has it here I think. I can’t play it at the moment (eyes and ears around me and no headphones) to double check, but I think I remember hearing it in his clip
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otQ65J7A3M0&feature=fvsr
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heh, n/m, found some ear buds right after I posted that. Yeah, Errey says it right at the end of the clip
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