Mario Lemieux interested in buying the Pittsburgh Pirates?
by FrankD on Jan 30, 2010 9:05 AM EST
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PrintWord on the street today is that Mario Lemieux may be interested in buying the Pittsburgh Pirates. Does this guy like a challenge or what?
From the Post-Gazette:
Mario Lemieux and Ron Burkle, co-owners of the Penguins, recently made an unsolicited offer to buy the Pirates in a face-to-face meeting with that team's owner, Bob Nutting, but the offer did not receive a response.
Sources on the Penguins' side last night described the offer made by Mr. Lemieux and Mr. Burkle as "very serious," without divulging a dollar figure, and said they remain interested in following up.
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Not a good idea
I don’t see how Miracle Mario’s gonna be able to save the Pirates. As far as we know, he knows next to nothing about baseball.
Although if he pulls this off, the city’s gonna owe him something, like an entire boulevard in his name or something
Lemieux and baseball
That means literally nothing. Do you think 66 is going to be the one coaching, managing, and signing the players? You appoint people who know what they’re doing to do those tasks.
granted
I wish my Bulls knew that ahead of time, but that’s another blog.
But you can’t deny that it helps that he’s spent pretty much his entire life learning and watching hockey. If I knew nothing about soap I wouldn’t invest in a cleaning company.
Please, for all that is holy, let this happen. But first we need the dumb shits that own the Pirates to actually sell, but they won’t because they know it’s a fucking cash camel because Pirate fans are as loyal as they come and will still buy tickets, merch, everything. But Nutting is a real prick, and if he wouldn’t sell to Cuban, I doubt he would sell to Mario.
To address Alighieri, I don’t think it would be a bad investment, just because you have no idea how a sport is played (which maybe Mario is a big baseball fan) it doesn’t mean you can’t own a team, plus, it doesn’t mean that he would be running the team, but rather someone who does know baseball, and really well.
Still, I would prefer Cuban, because we all know he would just pump money into the team to try and get a winner, which is something I don’t think Mario would do; he’s just not familiar with an unlimited cap space.
Nutting is a tool and has no interest in winning for this team, or for our city. Fucking ass-hat. Sorry for the swearing, can you tell I’m passionate about this?
A bee in a bird's nest never made no honey, and a bird in a hive sang no song.
The Pirates have been spending one of the highest amounts of money in the draft the past two years. Our minor league ranking went from the bottom 3 to the middle of the road in two years. We have Andrew McCutchen already up with Pedro Alvarez and Jose Tabata coming this year. It’s not pretty, but it never is during rebuilding. Now, we could have stayed with the team of “stars,” but they seriously only netted us 67ish wins a year. Getting rid of them cost us 5 games last year. 5. Do some research, figure some things out. Now, I’m not sure Nutting will open his checkbook in 3 years when the Pirates minor leaguers should start coming up, only he knows that, but for now I’m willing to wait and see how it goes. After almost a full decade of Dave Littlefield signing Pat Meares, Mike Benjamin, Derek Bell, Joe Randa, Matt Stairs, etc. I’m willing to give Huntington a chance. So should you, if you care about the Pirates. Then again, Pittsburgh fans usually turn on their teams when they’re bad and come back when they’re good. Always happens.
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by blackjackfishtaco on Jan 30, 2010 12:30 PM EST up reply actions
Don’t think Nutting’s going to be interested. The Pirates finally are on the right track and actually have a process going as it pertains to getting better. Getting an entirely new owner(Who doesn’t know anything about baseball no less) really wouldn’t help the Pirates.
But I don’t think Lemieux knowing nothing about baseball really matters much. I mean, a lot of teams in the league have investors and owners that know nothing about sports. It’s a business venture. One can even argue that in the past a guy like George Steinbrenner knew nothing about baseball. All he had was a checkbook with a ton of zeros to buy players in demand. If Lemieux and Burkle did join forces, then I can see Burkle being the checkbook while Lemieux just kinda sits back and keeps his interest vested in the actual investment, not the operations. Then down the road Burkle may buy Lemieux out to own the team entirely, which is something Burkle has wanted to do for a while now with a baseball club.
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I don’t know — if Mario became a co-owner of the Pirates, he would have to start attending their games too, and I would feel a little bit jealous, like “dad’s with his other family tonight.”
I suspect that it was Burkle’s idea, since the article says he has expressed interest in baseball teams in the past. If he still wants a baseball team, this would be a perfect situation for them.
The one reason this news makes me happy is that if they are thinking of acquiring the Pirates, that probably indicates that they expect to remain owners of the Penguins for the time being. I remember a few years ago they wanted to sell the team but it fell through — but now it seems like both Lemieux and Burkle enjoy being part of the organization. They got to be part of the Stanley Cup victory in a way that wouldn’t be possible if they had sold the team, and now I can’t imagine them selling the Penguins. Since I’m afraid of what new owners would do, I’m glad that it seems like they want to stay involved.
I use to watch the Pirates religiously a long time ago when they made it to the playoffs 3 years in a row and ended up blowing it, 3 years in a row. I swore off baseball & haven’t watched even 1 inning since.
I bet most people couldn’t even name a player on the Pirates, I know I couldn’t.
Mario should just pay attention to the Pens, forget baseball.
I’ve fallen off the circuit as far as baseball goes too. I grew up a huge Yankee fan back in the day. Baseball was my sport of choice growing up and I played it for almost 15 years. But then one day I just woke up and said, “I don’t want to do this anymore.” Even at that time my interest in watching it was minimal. The strikes and the “soft” salary cap didn’t help matters much. If there’s one thing I really appreciate about hockey, in financial terms of course, is the challenge of building a strong, talented team and keeping it all under the cap. It’s almost like a skill in and of itself.
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I played baseball all through my childhood. My mother had season tickets in the late 70’s and I went to a lot of games during that time. I was all into the world series back then & even went to a playoff game or 2 (hey, I was 10, don’t remember how many I went to).
by GhostWalker40 on Jan 30, 2010 8:16 PM EST up reply actions
There's an analogy in Detroit
Mike Illitch owns both the Red Wings and the Tigers. Tiegrs were good in the 80s, declined early in the 90s, when the Wings were rising, and it wasn’t until after the lockout, and the salary cap was imposed that the Tigers rose off the mat to put together a competitive team.
Granted, it’s nowhere near that simple, as there are so many other factors involved: a nightmare of a Tigers GM named Randy Smith chief among them, but you’re not going to convince me that that timing it’s purely coincidence.
On the other hand, the Tiegrs making it to the World Series in 2006, the Wings remaining competitive throughout the decade, and the Tigers nearly making the playoffs this year argues that it is possible to manage teams in both sports succesfully. Pittsburgh has a smaller market, less money available, but a savvy owner could make it work, and Mario’s success with the Pens argues that he might be able to make it work.
(Of course, he had the fortune of 4 straight picks in the top 2 of the draft…that helps matters a bit)
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This isn’t a matter of liking your team when they are good and not liking them when they are bad, this is a matter of Nutting not caring. If I didn’t like the Bucs when they sucked, and we can all agree that they are God awful, then I wouldn’t have posted anything to begin with.
This boils down to Pittsburgh being a winning city, and its fans being winning fans and wanting to win. You mean tell me that if the Buccos were good enough to win the World Series you wouldn’t have bragged your ass off? I know being from Western PA living in this hell hole called LA I would have been all over my friends, because we would have truly been the City of Champions. But no, Nutting doesn’t care, and I’m tired of hearing this give Huntington a chance BS because we’re rebuilding. Ya, we’ve been rebuilding for the last 20 years now almost and you can’t say we had losers in the front office like Littlefield, because, again, if Nutting really cared, he would have made the right moves the first time. Seriously, I’m sick and tired of this rebuilding talk and they’re making the right moves. Who are these people they’re signing? Do you know? I don’t. But what I do know is as soon as they start showing some value, I’m not going to be surprised when they trade them away like they have every other player lately.
A bee in a bird's nest never made no honey, and a bird in a hive sang no song.
The problem I’ve noticed with the Pirates over the past few years, and this is coming from someone who has developed little interest in baseball but still keeps an eye on transactions, is that every time they finally have a decent core to keep building on, they trade them away. Nady. Sanchez. Bay. Now who do they even have to rely on other than more up-and-coming guys they can sell off down the line?
It just stinks of bad business. At least from where I stand.
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Exactly!
And I’m sure they’re going to keep doing it, because I’m convinced Nutting does not give a shit at all. It makes him money from the loyal fans still, and that’s all that matters.
I’m not even excited on the idea of Mario owning the Pirates too, I’m more excited about the idea of the Pirates being owned by anyone else.
A bee in a bird's nest never made no honey, and a bird in a hive sang no song.
Nady was never a star, or even a good player, for that matter. Particularly last year when he spent the entire year on IR, as I recall.
Sanchez was a good player, but unfortunately injuries have derailed his career. That said, Huntington was willing to keep him if he took a pay cut(because again, injuries) but he declined, so Neal traded him and got prospects.
Bay’s career has also plummeted after he left here. The only point of controversy in getting rid of him is that what we got in return was questionable.
I might also note that the Pirates were never a winner with those guys. What makes you think they’re some kind of good solid core?
by SlayerGhaleon on Jan 30, 2010 5:17 PM EST up reply actions
Um, when Bay got to the Red Sox he tore it up. Again, one of the bonuses of playing for a team that actually cares about winning and is in the running to win. And I believe this past year he was one of their home run leaders.
I don’t think anyone is saying they were winners with those guys, but the difference is that the Nutting never made any moves to try and get some stars for help out these players. Just like they are not trying to get a real star veteran player right now.
A bee in a bird's nest never made no honey, and a bird in a hive sang no song.
It had the buildings of a core. Take the Pens for example. Let’s backtrack a few years to when they only had Fleury, Crosby, Orpik. Picture that as Bay, Sanchez and Nady. What if in 2005, after the Pens drafted Sid and he put up 100 pts, they traded away Fleury and Orpik for two more future picks? Would they have even made the playoffs the following year? No. But they kept those guys around and made the playoffs, even if they lost in the first round. Then they came back the next year, with that same core, and advanced to the Finals. Then they lost. Then they came back AGAIN with that same core and advanced to the Finals, winning it all in the end.
What I’m trying to say is, you’ll get your core of guys but you can’t expect them to win overnight or anything like that. The Pirates never let anything manifest, as far as I’m concerned, similar to what the Penguins did. They had it, let them play together for a bit and then dished them off to start all over again. Like I said above just bad business.
And again, this is coming from someone with little interest in baseball anymore. But if I had to say I was a fan of anyone I’d go with Yankees just because I was raised in NY and used to be a huge fan when I was a kid.
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a couple of points
unlike fleury and orpik, nady and sanchez were not going to get better- they were going to get worse, and quickly. Nady ’s trade was one of the better things to happen to this franchise- he blew out his shoulder after that year, and netted jose tabata, a top 100 prospect in baseball, and ross ohlendorf, daniel mccutchen (possibly 2/3 of the starting rotation in 2010) and karstens. It should be clear now that Bay would not have stayed in Pittsburgh in 2010. That is one of the troubles of not having a cap- teams with money can pay outrageous prices (I m not saying a cap would have solved all Pirate problems).
Really, you have a real core only when you have a set of 4-5 players all about 4-5 years away from free agency- and a couple of holes that you can fille with free agents- Tampa Bay, for instance, with Longoria, Zobrist, Price, Garza, Upton all at the same time with a couple close to FA like Crawford and Pena.
Nady, Bay and Sanchez would have the makings of a core only if they were still improving and they are not- with the exception of Bay, the others were distinctly average players, with one Nady traded in a career year he wouldn’t replicate, and Sanchez trade was just good luck, and a bad move by a bad GM Brian Sabean in SF. You could go to McCovey Chronicles and see the Giants fans’ frustration at what they gave up. It netted Pittsburgh Tim Alderson, a top 50 prospect last year, who had his star dip a little this year, which made him available, but is 2 levels away form the majors at 20 years old.
You know, it’s one thing to be skeptical. As you say, Nutting has indeed made questionable decisions in the past, and I really don’t blame anyone for being wary out of principle of the 17 years thing. However, it’s entirely another thing to do what you’re doing, that is be obnoxious and ignorant.
No, we haven’t been truly rebuilding the last 20 years or so. We started to rebuild, but then Bonifay and Littlefield abandoned a true rebuild in the middle and signed expensive free agents at the end of their careers in a desperate attempt to get a winner. Needless to say, it didn’t work. That leads me nicely to my next point.
Yes, you can blame Littlefield for a large part of the Pirates current struggles. He made awful draft decisions(the 2007 draft being one of the worst drafts in baseball history) and thus left our farm system barren.
Now Neal Huntington has been put in charge of fixing that. How do you fix that with a small market team? You trade players who generally are mediocre to solid (or stars in the twilight of their careers) at their peak values and flood said system with talented prospects. This lead to the splash of moves last season. To wit:
Nate McClouth is a solid player, but he’s not a star. He’d be a fourth or fifth outfielder on a team with World Series aspirations. You know who is a star? The guy who replaced him, Andrew McCutchen.
In that same vein did they trade Nyjer Morgan for Lastings Milledge. Milledge actually has upside. All indications are that this season was Morgan’s one good season for his career; he’ll likely go downhill the rest of it.
As for Nutting not wanting to spend money, fishtaco up there noted that the Pirates have been spending one of the highest amounts of money in the draft the past two years. They also spent money on a training facility in the Dominican Republic. He also noted that their minor league ranking jumped up since last offseason, supporting my earlier assertion that what Huntington’s selling likely isn’t bullshit.
Finally, as someone who follows the Pirates, I actually do know these guys they’re signing. Octavio Dotel in particular was a valuable signing. A stopgap until we can get better sure, but in all likelyhood a good stopgap.
by SlayerGhaleon on Jan 30, 2010 5:48 PM EST up reply actions
Octavio "elbow of tissue paper" Dotel?
Good luck with a 35 year old, oft injured closer. That he represents an upgrade for the Pirates’ pen is a sad commentary of the pitchers in there now. But what do I know, i’m just a fan of an AL Central team who’s been watching Dotel underwhelm in that crappy division for portions of the past three years.
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Octavio "elbow of tissue paper" Dotel?
as you called him, can at least throw a strike, which, to agree with you, is an upgrade of the Pirates’ pen (and therefore is depressing).
The real issue here is I think the Bucs are paying Dotel 10$, and giving him a one room apartment to live in.
He’s ridiculously cheap, mainly because the relief pitcher free agents this offseason were as a group the cheapest in years. Basically, he bought extremely low, and will (hopefully) get a few good years of relief pitching for next to nothing. Definitely better than waiting.
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Jan 30, 2010 8:01 PM EST up reply actions
Ya I Remember Dotel . . .
. . . On MVP Baseball 2005. He would have one good year on that game and then suck it up the rest of the time, or be injured. He may throw strikes, but you can hit a strike. Just another example of the Bucs getting a player who, though he might be cheap and good on paper, in the end he’s usually a bust.
Communism looks good on paper, but in theory never works out.
A bee in a bird's nest never made no honey, and a bird in a hive sang no song.
I’m a Flames fan and have never posted here, but goddamn, how rich is Mario? Dude must be a zillionaire!
by Rod Blogojevich on Jan 31, 2010 9:08 AM EST reply actions
The guy made bank man. Think of all the sponsors. The video games. The autographs. The investments.
Credit to his hard work no doubt but also a firm pat on the back to his financial advisor.
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