Sidney Crosby's Point Streak Ends: Penguins Lose to Islanders 2-1 in Shootout
by FrankD on Dec 29, 2010 11:00 PM EST
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Islanders Blog: Lighthouse Hockey
Well, at least the pressure's off for Sid as he heads into the Winter Classic, right?
It wasn't the most exciting of games for the first two-and-a-half periods or so, but it definitely got exciting at the end when the threat of Sid's streak really started to take hold. I don't normally bash referees because I never praise them (and I'd like to run a balanced bias in that regards), but there were some really sketchy calls throughout the game for both sides, one of which even resulted in a penalty shot for Kris Letang.
You win some, you lose some, and in some cases you can squeak out a point. The Pens managed the latter, losing to the Islanders 2-1 in a shootout.
When Rick DiPietro stopped Mark Letestu to seal the win for the Islanders, he skated off like his team clinched a playoff spot for the first time in four seasons, jumped into the arms of teammates and collapsed to the ice in a heap of victory (risk of injury: 70%). When the buzz died down and he was named the first star of the game, he stepped aside to chat with the Islanders PA announcer about the game and even dished an elbow to the glass at a Penguins fan who was flashing the front of his jersey (risk of injury: 40%).
"It's good to be back," he said. "I missed a couple of games..."
And that's when I started to laughed.
All kidding aside, DiPietro owned that game for the Islanders, stopping 36 of 37 shots and stepping up his game in the shootout to make sure the Islanders earned that extra point. Even though Letang learned his lesson from the penalty shot and managed to beat DP in the shootout, it was Evgeni Malkin's goal that completely threw DiPietro off (risk of injury: 64%). Unfortunately New York had Marc-Andre Fleury's number, beating him on three of four chances.
The first period was your prototypical bland, boring and trap-ridden game. The second period at least saw some scoring, even if I didn't wake up until the seven-minute mark. But hey, just in time to see Chris Conner find the back of the net for the fourth time this season on an assist from Tyler Kennedy. Good things happen when you crash the net, but unfortunately the Pens weren't able to capitalize on that game plan for the remainder of the night.
Josh Bailey was easily the best offensive player for the Islanders tonight, buzzing around the net all night and registering the team's lone goal early in the second. Looks like spending a little time in the AHL worked out well for him, much to the Penguins' chagrin.
Still can't put aside the fact that the Penguins had a chance to ice it in overtime while on the power play and just couldn't get it done. Oddly enough, that was only the Penguins' second power play in the entire game. Guess the refs were harder to bribe in this one.
Somewhere in the depths of Nassau Coliseum, DiPietro is raising his hands high above his faux hawk celebrating his fifth win of the season (risk of injury: 33%), and no one is going to take that away from him. The Pens on the other hand will take the trip back to Pittsburgh to rest up before Saturday's Winter Classic at 1:00.
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like what puck daddy said..
“So Crosby’s streak ends (and god willing, so does his facial hair until the playoffs). But tonight was a reminder why Sid the Kid is the biggest story in the NHL this season: What would have otherwise been a inconsequential tune-up with a conference also-ran before the Classic became an epic battle that had fans buzzing around the League.”
Sid for president!
No “My Thoughts” tonight because I’m enjoying my vacay away from college. However, 24/7 has inspired me to do a big write up on Episode 3 tomorrow.
About the game: it was a trap game, like I thought it would be. The Pens didn’t give the Isles enough respect and they paid for it.
As for Sid, what a streak man. I’m a little sad to see the stache grow, but it was a hell of a run while it lasted.
My Thoughts on the Pens & Twitter
"A player's game is a composition. Sometimes it's a line, sometimes a paragraph. Right now, Crosby's game is a novel." -Scott Burnside
Posted a little tidbit
over at my blog.
/shameless plug
My Thoughts on the Pens & Twitter
"A player's game is a composition. Sometimes it's a line, sometimes a paragraph. Right now, Crosby's game is a novel." -Scott Burnside
by AllieLXXXVII on Dec 30, 2010 1:07 AM EST up reply actions
This may be a stretch
but, Sid’s streak may be the reason we only got 1 point… It seemed like they were trying to get Sid the point more than they were trying to win the game at the end of the 3rd… I mean I can’t blame them for funneling the puck to Sid(as he is the best player), but they seemed to pass up better chances just to get him the puck… and it may have cost them. Ultimately, not a big deal… I don’t see the Pens being hurt by that missing point when all things are said and done… just saying… :)
Hopefully there will be a stache-less Crosby for Saturdays game… and hopefully he doesn’t go into a funk now for a few games/weeks and just continues on what he’s been doing. And like 3maria said above, it’s crazy the amount of attention Crosby brings to a game between the one of the best teams in hockey, and one of the worst.
I do like the way DiPietro plays, I like that he moves the puck and he’s a little unconventional… although, I would have like to have seen Kunitz pound him there at the end.
They passed up chances, but they didn’t pass up chances for Sid. I didn’t notice anyone forcing it to him.
If anything, TK not burying that open net was pretty big.
My Thoughts on the Pens & Twitter
"A player's game is a composition. Sometimes it's a line, sometimes a paragraph. Right now, Crosby's game is a novel." -Scott Burnside
by AllieLXXXVII on Dec 29, 2010 11:50 PM EST up reply actions
In the overtime power play it almost looked like Geno was purposely avoiding Sid. Very strange.
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by PensAreYourDaddy on Dec 30, 2010 2:40 AM EST up reply actions
Seemed liked that to me too. Except, Geno wasn’t really doing much with the puck with anyone, let alone Sid…he did not look good tonight at all.
My Thoughts on the Pens & Twitter
"A player's game is a composition. Sometimes it's a line, sometimes a paragraph. Right now, Crosby's game is a novel." -Scott Burnside
by AllieLXXXVII on Dec 30, 2010 2:59 AM EST up reply actions
agreed. Though, I agree with Allie, too. Geno had a terrible game and just seemed to be separate from everyone else all game. But, Hockey Central saw that Geno didn’t pass enough in that last 2 minutes to have a discussion about whether or not Sid would be angry that he didn’t get to touch the puck on the OT power play
I noticed too
I thought he avoided Crosby because of the way the Isles had played Crosby all night. They worked to neutralize Crosby and dared the rest of the team to beat DiPietro, which they failed to do more or less. Malkin was taking what the Isles gave him.
In other words, in overtime, the Pens put winning the game before Crosby’s streak. This is only right given the fact that Pens needed to “take care of business” against a weak team. The Pens’ schedule during January is brutal. Dropping a point in an overtime loss to the Isles and two points to the Senators does not help the Pens win their race for the Conference title.
s.zielinski
I do agree to a certain extent that the Isles were trying to deny Sid the puck. But putting the streak aside, getting the puck to Sid on the power play (or any other time) has been the recipe for success, and there were a couple of opportunities to feed him in that sequence. Also, it wasn’t like Geno and Tanger were taking advantage of the extra attention Crosby was receiving by setting up some scary good chances.
Like you, I was far more concerned about getting the two points. I was basically yelling at Steigy and Errey for the last few minutes of regulation into overtime because all they could talk about was the streak, and even celebrating (practically) a missed opportunity because it might increase the odds of Sid getting a late goal.
In a way, it’s nice for the streak to be over. Feels like the pressure is off now, plus it means the Caps won’t have a chance to end it Saturday (or Sunday).
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by PensAreYourDaddy on Dec 30, 2010 9:27 AM EST up reply actions
In a way, it’s nice for the streak to be over. Feels like the pressure is off now, plus it means the Caps won’t have a chance to end it Saturday (or Sunday).
I agree that the streak became a distraction for the team. It’s one thing to worry about a player’s streak (or his stats in general) when a team has a three goal lead; it’s counterproductive to worry about it when a team is fighting for a win.
Steigy and Errey are not always sources of good sense!
s.zielinski
I thought he avoided Crosby because of the way the Isles had played Crosby all night. They worked to neutralize Crosby and dared the rest of the team to beat DiPietro, which they failed to do more or less. Malkin was taking what the Isles gave him.
If that’s his reason, then that’s pretty weak. There’s a hell of a lot of room on a 4 on 3 PP. Sid was open a number of times and Geno never passed to him but maybe once.
My Thoughts on the Pens & Twitter
"A player's game is a composition. Sometimes it's a line, sometimes a paragraph. Right now, Crosby's game is a novel." -Scott Burnside
by AllieLXXXVII on Dec 30, 2010 1:29 PM EST up reply actions
It did look like towards the end of the game that they were more interested in getting Sid his point then getting a win.
Also, it doesn’t help matter when Steiggy & Errey don’t shut up about the thing. The whole third period it seemed like that’s all they were worried about.
As far as Geno, I think he was desperatly trying to get a shot through, hoping for a rebound for Sid. Also, the Isles were really overplaying Sid on that OT pp and Geno knew it.
I don’t really dig the way DP runs around with the puck before trying to play it. Seems like his is close to a rules violation there and when he throws the puck up ice toward the opposing goal.
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by PensAreYourDaddy on Dec 30, 2010 2:38 AM EST up reply actions
Frustrating game because the Penguins doubled up the Islanders in total shots and attempts and ES shots and attempts. The Islanders lose this game nine times out of ten. Unfortunately it just wasn’t the Penguins’ night.
Malkin is so frustrating. He keeps digging a deeper and deeper hole for himself every night.
Hockey Blogger at Pensburgh.com
We’ve got to give Geno some credit—he’s played some great games for us lately.
Tonight, however, was one of the worst games I’ve seen from him in a while (maybe all season) and a big step back from him.
My Thoughts on the Pens & Twitter
"A player's game is a composition. Sometimes it's a line, sometimes a paragraph. Right now, Crosby's game is a novel." -Scott Burnside
by AllieLXXXVII on Dec 29, 2010 11:51 PM EST up reply actions
and a big step back from him.*
My Thoughts on the Pens & Twitter
"A player's game is a composition. Sometimes it's a line, sometimes a paragraph. Right now, Crosby's game is a novel." -Scott Burnside
by AllieLXXXVII on Dec 29, 2010 11:51 PM EST up reply actions
he's played good games and put up some points
but he consistently loses the puck and/or makes stupid little errors that are really frustrating
In a sentence, that’s a very good way of putting Geno’s game.
Overall, he’s very talented, but the little things bring him down tremendously.
My Thoughts on the Pens & Twitter
"A player's game is a composition. Sometimes it's a line, sometimes a paragraph. Right now, Crosby's game is a novel." -Scott Burnside
by AllieLXXXVII on Dec 30, 2010 1:12 AM EST up reply actions
It’s just mind boggling that Geno can have such a bad game versus such a bad team.
Hockey Blogger at Pensburgh.com
As mind boggling as the entire tea having such a bad game against such a bad team.
by SlayerGhaleon on Dec 30, 2010 1:23 PM EST up reply actions
True, but Malkin…was pretty terrible.
My Thoughts on the Pens & Twitter
"A player's game is a composition. Sometimes it's a line, sometimes a paragraph. Right now, Crosby's game is a novel." -Scott Burnside
by AllieLXXXVII on Dec 30, 2010 1:32 PM EST up reply actions
Lost point the most disappointing
This game was on on-line, but I couldn’t watch and it is just as well. Frustrating to put up nearly 40 shots against RICK DiPIETRO and NOT get more than 1 past him. Kind of like the other night vs. the Sens and Jumbo Elliot. Would have been nice to have one of those 6 vs. Atlanta go in vs. NYI. Oh well not to be.
Great run for Sid, but it had to end sometime. Not good reading Malkin was so bad but that’s Malkin. Some nights he’s an absolute beast others he’s Casper the Ghost or worse, a liability. Another good effort for MAF, nice to see him put his terrible start further and further in the rearview mirror. Here’s to a good team outing on New Year’s Day. Hopefully they can play it and moreso the Pens pick up 2pts! Happy New Year. Go Pens Go!
The team overall had a good game: outshooting/attempting the opposition 71-35 at even strength is a pretty solid performance. Malkin was very bad last night, much worse than any other player in my opinion.
Hockey Blogger at Pensburgh.com
yeeeeep.
sidney crosby is better than me.
by katielynn906 on Dec 30, 2010 2:09 AM EST up reply actions
I think this sums it up quite nicely.
My Thoughts on the Pens & Twitter
"A player's game is a composition. Sometimes it's a line, sometimes a paragraph. Right now, Crosby's game is a novel." -Scott Burnside
by AllieLXXXVII on Dec 30, 2010 2:33 AM EST up reply actions
Isles deserved the win. They worked hard all game as usual, and the Pens didn’t take them seriously enough. Nothing else to say.
No team that traps the whole game deserves to win anything. That crap is what killed hockey before the lockout, and if it were possible to make rules forbidding it, they should.
I understand your feelings—it’s boring—but the Isles aren’t exactly an offensive force right now. They used what they had available. I can’t blame them for that.
"Darling, you say Brooks Orpik 'checked' that guy. He did not 'get under him and put him into the wall'."--Beloved to me, Winter 2007
Cocktails With the Penguins, where Pens fans toast victories and drown defeats.
by GreenEyedLilo on Dec 30, 2010 9:36 AM EST up reply actions
Sports rules are arbitrary to begin with (I mean, it’s not like the rules of hockey are the laws of physics), so what’s one more arbitrary rule added to the mix to keep the game moving?
I don't have a problem with it
It’s not like it’s cheating or anything… yea it’s annoying and like was said, boring… but still, it’s effective…
It’s not like it’s cheating
I didn’t watch hockey in the ’90’s, but I’ve heard from some people on here (as well as Mario’s infamous comments about the garbage league) that the trap involves a ton of cheating. Watching the one game last night seemed to confirm this. Every time anyone tried to get a puck deep or move through the neutral zone, the pens were interfered with, grabbed, clutched and everything else. What especially infuriated me was that the referees had the nerve to call Letang for interference on that BS play when the Isles had been doing (and continued to do) much worse the entire game.
The same is true for MTL last year. I really have yet to see a team effectively trap without employing all of the clutching, grabbing, and interference that the rule changes were supposed to get rid of.
Hockey Blogger at Pensburgh.com
Then trapping should be against the rules. It’ll never happen, but it’s horrible for the game and the sport. And it’s cheating.
Hockey Blogger at Pensburgh.com
That’s not really true.
The object of the trap is to funnel a player to the boards where he has to dump it in with little speed to chase the puck. Then the defensive team’s D-men go back get the puck and head up ice. When you have a goalie who can handle the puck it works really well. New Jersey in the late 90’s is the perfect exaple of this. Also, Detroit used a similar trapping system called “The Left wing Lock”, where they let the center and right wing wait at the blue line and have the 2 D-men and the left wing back at center ice and they would attempt to funnel a player with the puck. It’s just no forechecking. They sit back and wait.
BTW, the notion that these team’s didn’t score a lot is not accurate. Back in the late 90’s & early 2000’s Detroit was regularly among the league leaders for goals. Also, believe it or not, New Jersey, who’s become synonymous with trapping and defense actually lead the NHL in goals for in 2001.
I will say this, it is very boring to watch. With all the dumping and backing off, it really is hard to enjoy as a spectator. And fans didn’t like it much and it showed in attendance and TV rating. This is the main reason the league wanted to get rid of it and decided to become more stringent with it’s rules. But for coaches who could care less about TV rating & needing wins, it helps close the gap between highly skilled teams and teams not so highly skilled.
90s trap hockey made me one of those fans who left the NHL fandom for a while. I switched to Junior and other hockey as much as I could because I couldn’t stand the game I was seeing on TV and in the stands. It completely hampered skill players and was incredibly boring to watch. It was particularly hard to watch after growing up with hockey during the scoring days of the 70s and 80s. I never, ever want to return to that game of the 90s and up to the lock-out, and I’m certain the NHL doesn’t. It doesn’t sell. It isn’t fun. It denies the skill of the skate and the pass and dramatically slows and stalls the game.
I was born in ‘68 and I’m from New England, so by the time I was of any age to remember – it was just after Orr’s heyday but right around the time LaFleur was the best player in NHL and Gretzky was just about to enter the league. So I too remember the 80’s and first half of the nineties and agree with you whole heartedly, the game was wide open and very fan friendly, but I could never leave it. I’m a sucker for NHL hockey I guess. To me the seasons between the 2 lock-outs (‘94-’04) are the NHL’s dark ages, with 95-96 being an anomaly for some sreason.
Hall Gill does this in the playoffs every year, when the rules change.
Not that I’m bitter.
(I’m really effing bitter)
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Dec 30, 2010 6:04 PM EST up reply actions
this made me laugh.
sidney crosby is better than me.
by katielynn906 on Dec 30, 2010 6:33 PM EST up reply actions
I know it’s probably no consolation now, but we got a big taste of it last year in the playoffs as well.
Hockey Blogger at Pensburgh.com
then the refs need to call penalties for holding/interference
Every team interferes with/holds up other players, it’s just there is a certain extent that is considered allowable, even if the rules don’t specifically state. I mean allowing one team to do it some and then not allowing another team to do it because they do it more often doesn’t really make sense IMO.
Also, interference and/or holding isn’t cheating… it is a penalty… but it’s not cheating. If we used that logic, then fighting would be cheating.
I realize the trap isn’t fun to watch and is very annoying, but there really isn’t anything wrong with it…
Fighting isn’t against the rules. If it were it wouldn’t be allowed or encouraged. Holding and interfering with a player outside the rulebook is cheating. It’s cheating because it gives a team an unfair advantage over another. And the fact that the refs aren’t calling holding or interference penalties shouldn’t come as a surprise to anyone: those “let ’em play” games are the epitome of this mindset.
Hockey Blogger at Pensburgh.com
Fighting is against the rules. That is why they get penalized for it. In fact, it gets a major while interference and holding are only minors. Your logic on this is incorrect. The idea that the trap is cheating is just plain silly. It’s boring and overall bad for the game, but it is not at all cheating.
Put on your dancin' shoes.
If fighting really were against the rules, then teams would be forbidden to have players whose sole job is to fight. Just because the league hands out a superficial penalty to each player doesn’t mean its against the rules because fighting majors have NO EFFECT on the game: play continues as normal, five-on-five hockey, afterward. Any other penalty, which usually isn’t paired with a coincidental minor, gives the other team a powerplay. I think it’s impossible to argue that fighting is against the rules when teams are allowed/encouraged to keep enforcers on their rosters, and the NHL has designed fighting penalties to have NO EFFECT on the game, unlike every other penalty.
As far as the trap is concerned, if it can’t be implemented without hooking, holding, clutching, and interference, then it should be against the rules. I have yet to see a team cleanly execute the trap without trying to gain an unfair advantage by bending the rules on obstruction minors.
Hockey Blogger at Pensburgh.com
Well, if they are clutching and grabbing, they will be penalized for it.
I DID watch hockey in the 90`s, and there was still good hockey being played. Fans these days need goals and results (ie – new rules and shootouts), but some of us still appreciate good defensive hockey. The Trap is an extreme form and can be boring to watch, but if it wins games, then who really cares what the fans think?
by LastSonOfKrypton on Dec 30, 2010 10:21 PM EST up reply actions
I agree, the trap is horrible, but obviously as their record shows teams that trap do not really get rewarded. The Devils trap too, and they are garbage.
Get in the fast lane Grandma, the bingo game's ready to roll!
by PensForTheWin on Dec 31, 2010 10:17 AM EST up reply actions
The pens outshot/attempted the Isles something like 84-42 over the whole game, and 71-35 at even strength. The Isles deserved to win nothing tonight: they relied on luck and their goaltender. The Pens dominated in possession and chances but the things outside of their control were too much of an obstacle tonight.
In a sense, the silver lining is that even with the Penguins visibly not giving it 100%, they still dominated the Isles.
Hockey Blogger at Pensburgh.com
And that’s why relying solely on stats to analyze a game is farcical at best. The only reason we did all that is because we have more talent than the Isles. The Isles played a whole lot better than we did in this game despite that, and they deserved to win because of it. Period.
by SlayerGhaleon on Dec 30, 2010 1:20 PM EST up reply actions
Why did they play better? I saw a team in the Isles that did basically nothing all game play against a team in the Pens that pounded the Isles and did everything but score.
Because they trapped up the neutral zone and instead of countering it, the Pens got frustrated and made a lot of dumb passes and stupid mistakes. This lasted the majority of the game.
Meanwhile, the Isles stayed patient and stuck to their system, thus limiting their mistakes. They easily shut down both Crosby and Malkin because of it, and thus won the game, as they deserved to.
by SlayerGhaleon on Dec 30, 2010 1:27 PM EST up reply actions
They easily shut down both Crosby and Malkin because of it, and thus won the game, as they deserved to.
Go ask any Islander and I bet they will tell you that keeping both of those guys off the score sheet was anything but “easy.”
My Thoughts on the Pens & Twitter
"A player's game is a composition. Sometimes it's a line, sometimes a paragraph. Right now, Crosby's game is a novel." -Scott Burnside
by AllieLXXXVII on Dec 30, 2010 1:41 PM EST up reply actions
The Pens didn’t perfectly counter the trap, but that does not mean they didn’t dominate the Isles. The outshot and out attempted them, and they also out-chanced them, so no one can say “well most of the pens’ shots were from the outside while the Isles got good chances.”
Hockey Blogger at Pensburgh.com
The Pens didn’t respect them as much as they should’ve but the Isles did not play better than the Pens. For a few minutes to start the second, maybe, but the whole of the game? No way.
My Thoughts on the Pens & Twitter
"A player's game is a composition. Sometimes it's a line, sometimes a paragraph. Right now, Crosby's game is a novel." -Scott Burnside
by AllieLXXXVII on Dec 30, 2010 1:40 PM EST up reply actions
If the Pens did give more respect (and also act like they knew this game did count in the standings), it’s easily 4-0 Pens at the end of the second.
Hockey Blogger at Pensburgh.com
Agreed.
My Thoughts on the Pens & Twitter
"A player's game is a composition. Sometimes it's a line, sometimes a paragraph. Right now, Crosby's game is a novel." -Scott Burnside
by AllieLXXXVII on Dec 30, 2010 2:01 PM EST up reply actions
Oh come on...
respect is the reason the Pens lost? That’s like saying Crosby is a great player because he REALLY respects the game of hockey… the Pens didn’t play that great and didn’t get a few bounces. That’s hockey… The Isles played well and were able to keep the game tied and force the shootout which is basically a crapshoot once you get there.
That’s like saying Crosby is a great player because he REALLY respects the game of hockey…
You’re entitled to your own opinions, but that really is one of the reasons why Sid is so great.
the Pens didn’t play that great and didn’t get a few bounces. That’s hockey… The Isles played well and were able to keep the game tied and force the shootout which is basically a crapshoot once you get there.
They didn’t play great, but they still played much better than the Isles.
And you’re right, it is a crapshoot, which is why GoPens! was making the case that they were lucky to win. Bounces and the shootout.
My Thoughts on the Pens & Twitter
"A player's game is a composition. Sometimes it's a line, sometimes a paragraph. Right now, Crosby's game is a novel." -Scott Burnside
by AllieLXXXVII on Dec 30, 2010 7:24 PM EST up reply actions
Why did they play better or deserve to win? What can you point to in that game that says they were such a better team than the Penguins???
Hockey Blogger at Pensburgh.com
Amen
This debate is comical in the sense that people are saying they took the opponent for granted and played half-way or a step short. On the flip side the shot numbers are being used to show they dominated the game. Shot numbers are just that – numbers. A team can take 100 shots or even shots on goal, but if you put all 100 shots in the goalie’s crest, the boards or the protective netting which letang was able to find – it is meaningless. All I’m saying is that you’ve got to create scoring chances – shooting is just a means to that end – and tonight they didn’t find that end against a goalie who played well and a team that utilized a defensive scheme that the pens continue to struggle against under their current style.
I can’t in all good conscience even begin to speculate that they took this team for granted. From top to bottom in this league any team can beat any team on any given night.
I think 24/7 has been pretty telling that this is not a cocky or arrogant team. Some nights you just don’t have it.
by josh7x on Dec 30, 2010 3:58 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Some nights you just don’t have it.
Exactly.
On a side note, I’m not saying Letang didn’t do it at some point, but it was Geno whose shot somehow ended up in the protective net late in regulation or overtime. At least that’s the one that really sticks out in my mind.
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by PensAreYourDaddy on Dec 30, 2010 4:16 PM EST up reply actions
The officials must have missed it then because I thought they moved the face off outside the zone on that one.
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by PensAreYourDaddy on Dec 30, 2010 5:01 PM EST up reply actions
They did.
My Thoughts on the Pens & Twitter
"A player's game is a composition. Sometimes it's a line, sometimes a paragraph. Right now, Crosby's game is a novel." -Scott Burnside
by AllieLXXXVII on Dec 30, 2010 5:03 PM EST up reply actions
Mine too — the one where he forced the pp faceoff outside their end?
Hockey Blogger at Pensburgh.com
people are saying they took the opponent for granted and played half-way or a step short
They did.
On the flip side the shot numbers are being used to show they dominated the game.
The penguins did dominate the other team. This isn’t news, but the Islanders are a really bad team. It’s entirely possible (in fact, it happened last night) that a team could not be at their best and still dominate their opponent if the opponent was that bad. The Penguins controlled possession like no one’s business.
A team can take 100 shots or even shots on goal, but if you put all 100 shots in the goalie’s crest, the boards or the protective netting which letang was able to find – it is meaningless.
There has never been a team in the history of the league that has outshot the opponent by 100 and lost a ton of games because they put all of the shots in the goalie’s chest. This idea that some teams are just much better shooters, i.e. have a much greater shot quality, really isn’t true. The differences at team level in ES S% is very, very minimal, perhaps negligible. If a team is dominating in shots, then they will win more often than not. You can come up with all the crazy hypotheticals you want, but we’re not trying to model those: we’re trying to model the real life game.
All I’m saying is that you’ve got to create scoring chances – shooting is just a means to that end – and tonight they didn’t find that end against a goalie who played well and a team that utilized a defensive scheme that the pens continue to struggle against under their current style.
The Penguins out chanced the Isles last night. What more do you want? And to say the Penguins struggled isn’t as accurate as saying the Isles got incredibly lucky. Had the Penguins not been able to generate as many shots against last night (which the trap is supposed to prevent — and it failed in that regard), then the Penguins would have struggled.
Hockey Blogger at Pensburgh.com
what more do i want?
goals and wins of course – especially when we’re playing a really bad team as you describe them – that’s the point I’m trying to make on this one. My crazy hypothetical was just to make the point that using shots and numbers as the definitive be-all-end-all to dominating a game is not always going to pan out. At the end of the night they had 38 shots on goal. 84 and 71 are cute numbers, but I don’t think they tell the whole story (and before we get too far off topic – yes i realize that shots that aren’t taken on goal can become scoring chances).
One post I read claimed luck, bounces and decisions were our downfall – but it goes both ways if you look hard enough – we had a penalty shot that was suspect that could have won the game in regulation (good luck) – Letang backhands the opportunity into the netting (bad luck). Deps wiffs on a clearing chance (good luck) – TK shoots the puck wide of the empty net (bad luck) Fleury looks stout for 65 minutes (good luck) – looks awful in the shoot-out (bad luck).
I have no problem agreeing that they did not play the greatest hockey last night and that they are better and played better than NYI. I still don’t understand how one can rationalize with any certainty that the team took the islanders for granted. How is that proven beyond opinion?
As for the trap – it’s just my opinion that it is their achilles heel. The trap still requires a team to execute and play mistake free hockey for it to work flawlessly – in this case their goalie did his job when they were able to overcome it. I just happen to feel that it is not a coincidence that they play poorly when teams implement it. NJ did it to them six times last year, I remember a game against washington last spring where the caps utilized it to their advantage and won and last night they didn’t look particularly fluid.
goals and wins of course
The Pens did a lot of things right last night and with those shot totals they would usually come away with a win. The fact that they didn’t doesn’t mean the Isles were better — they were just lucky.
and numbers as the definitive be-all-end-all to dominating a game is not always going to pan out
When would this happen? Find me a hockey game in which one team DOUBLES UP another in shots and attempts, out chances them, but somehow doesn’t dominate the other team. When we talk about domination we talk about possession. Sometimes all of this possession means 7 goals, other nights it only means one; luck and other factors make quite a bit of difference. But it still doesn’t change the fact that there was domination.
84 and 71 are cute numbers
What does this mean?
I still don’t understand how one can rationalize with any certainty that the team took the islanders for granted
.
I’m not sure what you mean by this, or the previous paragraph. Yes luck goes both ways, and the Penguins were unlucky to lose a game in which they doubled up the opposition in shots and out chanced them. While it’s clear the Penguins were the better team from the numbers, my own opinion (and apparently the majority opinion) is that the Penguins didn’t appear to take this game too seriously. That’s consistent with the above point: the Pens are that good where they can dominate an Isles team while not taking them too seriously. It’s rare in the NHL, but the Penguins are very good and the Islanders are very bad.
Hockey Blogger at Pensburgh.com
with those shot totals they would usually come away with a win.
Did you watch the Montreal series last year? Simply outshooting the opponent does not mean they will usually win. If it did, then the Pens would have eventually overcome the Habs. They didn’t because you have to take quality shots.
Put on your dancin' shoes.
Did you watch the Montreal series last year?
A seven game series in hockey does not disprove years and years of data. No hockey stats person, not Justin, not me, not anyone on SBN or anywhere, has ever said that a team that outshoots its opponent will always win. Looks at the Isles game: luck plays a huge role. Over the course of a small series, anything can happen. A team can be out chanced, out shot, and out attempted, but if their goalie is hot, luck is on their side, and the referees do not call obstruction minors, then there’s nothing the other team can do.
I know this conclusion is frustrating for some because we like to the have control over what happens to us, but even if a team does everything right, sometimes you don’t win. It’s a necessary evil in hockey.
Hockey Blogger at Pensburgh.com
It’s hard to counter the stats argument you make now because you’ve clarified your position on domination as possession. That certainly helps me see your point much more clearly.
I choose to look at it much more differently because of how cruel the game can be and how fast the tides can turn. I just think numbers and years of stats take you so far in the course of defining a game. Someone mentioned the Pens/Habs Series as an example which was shot down – the Habs/Caps series was very similar in the first round – if i’m not mistaken Washington more than doubled them up in shots the last two games and Montreal won both games. Yes these are only small snapshots, but that is what every game is.
Domination to me is just having your way with a team – the coyotes game a few weeks back would be a recent example in my mind, but I’d bet the box score would not necessarily reflect such domination. On the flip side – I bet we dominated the hell out of Boston earlier this year by the numbers – how’d that one turn out? Hanging around with NY to me just means we didn’t play great that night and didn’t take advantage of the opportunities.
Jumping back to the shots per game numbers – The Pens have lost 14 times this year – I’d be willing to bet that the Pens have outshot their opponent in at least 10 of those losses. I’ll have to check my facts when I get a bit of time over the weekend – but if this is true – would these losses be the result of merely bad luck or taking each opponent for granted?
Yes these are only small snapshots, but that is what every game is.
That’s why relying on one game, one series, or even one year of data is risky. Looking at all the years of data put together, teams that out shoot the opposition win more often than not. Period.
Domination to me is just having your way with a team
Let’s say Team A out shoots Team B 45-15. Team B wins 2-0. Did Team A not dominate that game?
On the flip side – I bet we dominated the hell out of Boston earlier this year by the numbers – how’d that one turn out?
Josh, you need to stop talking about one game here or one series there. Those don’t prove anything.
The Pens have lost 14 times this year – I’d be willing to bet that the Pens have outshot their opponent in at least 10 of those losses.
So? If you’re arguing that the Pens should stop out shooting the opposition, I challenge you to find an NHL coach who would adopt that philosophy on the ice.
Hockey Blogger at Pensburgh.com
I’m certainly not arguing that they should fail to outshoot their opponents – on the whole, I agree with your position in the broad spectrum. It is a recipe for success.
My original thoughts were a follow-up to a comment made by SlayerGhaleon – “And that’s why relying solely on stats to analyze a game is farcical at best”
The example you provide would certainly be considered domination based on your definition. However, when watching the Pens I would never take solace in those stats if they are losing that game 2-0.
This has been a great debate, but I’m going to have to concede to you as the point I’m trying to drive home is rooted in the fact that dominating a game statistically means nothing on the individual game basis – if I can’t use those as evidence – I’m screwed.
As to the trap, the Pens of this season are a different team from last year. They’re much better, and they’ll be fine against the trap. Teams that trap today are teams that lose in the long run.
Hockey Blogger at Pensburgh.com
They weren’t fine against the trap last night. What are you basing this opinion on? I have seen no evidence to suggest that they will be fine against the trap this year. I am open to this being true, but you will have to show me.
Put on your dancin' shoes.
If the Penguins play the trap, and out shoot the other team 71-35 at even strength, and 84-42 overall, I’d argue they’ll be just fine against the trap this year. I’ll take those numbers any day of the week.
Hockey Blogger at Pensburgh.com
Like others, I don’t think the Penguins took the Isles seriously. I also thought that they all looked at least a step off, except for Fleury. (And then he lost it in the shootout.) An exhausted, distracted team isn’t likely to win against motivated opponents, no matter how good they usually are. It was like watching children attempt to study a couple days before summer vacation—they were looking ahead.
DiPietro struck me as a bit jerky, but he took the mustache off Crosby’s face and he’ll be on IR again soon enough, so let the baby have his bottle. I get amazed at how good he really can be when the stars align and he’s healthy. I remember how Beloved thought the Wings would just roll right over the Isles last season when they visited Nassau, and how DiPietro shut them out and the result was lopsided. It’s not just the Penguins and their fans who’ve suffered from underestimating a motivated Islanders team.
I hope everyone on the team benefits from some rest, and the Winter Classic ends a whole lot better for the Penguins. I also hope they never, ever underestimate a team again.
"Darling, you say Brooks Orpik 'checked' that guy. He did not 'get under him and put him into the wall'."--Beloved to me, Winter 2007
Cocktails With the Penguins, where Pens fans toast victories and drown defeats.
agreed on most of the points you make… I’m not sure the Isles outplayed us tonight, but the Pens definitely were scrappy and not on their game.
Noticed it in a couple of comments above, but Geno’s play struck me as a particularly bad last night… his passes were all over the place, his decisions were not simple enough to be effective and his shots were wide or right in the breadbasket of DiPietro…
Here’s hoping the 2 days of rest help the Pens relax and regain their focus and precision.
You have to see it for yourself...
Noticed it in a couple of comments above, but Geno’s play struck me as a particularly bad last night… his passes were all over the place, his decisions were not simple enough to be effective and his shots were wide or right in the breadbasket of DiPietro…
Agreed. I have no idea what happened to Geno over the last 18 months. He’s such a shadow of his former self.
Hockey Blogger at Pensburgh.com
Malkin
It’s like he’s a bystander, looking in…..at the window….outside the glass while the
rest of the Pens are inside, working out, laughing, joking, being a TEAM.
Hockey keeps us sane. Life would suck without it.
Let's go Pens! Let's go Canucks!
Sidney Crosby can shoot waffles my way, any day...
by PensFanInDenver on Dec 30, 2010 2:06 PM EST up reply actions
He may be inconsistent, but he’s not this.
My Thoughts on the Pens & Twitter
"A player's game is a composition. Sometimes it's a line, sometimes a paragraph. Right now, Crosby's game is a novel." -Scott Burnside
by AllieLXXXVII on Dec 30, 2010 2:11 PM EST up reply actions
agreed.
sidney crosby is better than me.
by katielynn906 on Dec 30, 2010 2:13 PM EST up reply actions
I agree PFID’s description might be too harsh, but I think inconsistent is starting to become a big understatement.
Hockey Blogger at Pensburgh.com
I may be making this a lot more technical than it is by saying this:
I thought, last season, describing Geno as inconsistent was actually an overstatement in the sense that (for all we knew) he was just having a down year. Now that he’s been inconsistent like this for a year and a half, it’s not an overstatement anymore nor is it an understatement—it just is what it is.
Just wondering, GoPens!, if calling him “inconsistent” is an “understatement,” then what would be the correct way of putting it, in your opinion?
My Thoughts on the Pens & Twitter
"A player's game is a composition. Sometimes it's a line, sometimes a paragraph. Right now, Crosby's game is a novel." -Scott Burnside
by AllieLXXXVII on Dec 30, 2010 5:08 PM EST up reply actions
Consistently below elite. I think inconsistency implies he’s an elite player, but he just doesn’t reach that level every night. I think he fails to reach it so often that he’s not inconsistent, but rather consistently below average.
I’m not sure that clears things up though :/
Hockey Blogger at Pensburgh.com
No, no that clears it up. Thanks. =]
I think he fails to reach it so often that he’s not inconsistent, but rather consistently below average.
Well…I don’t know if I’m at that point. I don’t think he’s an elite player anymore, but I think he could turn around tomorrow and decide to be elite again and he would be because he has so much talent.
My Thoughts on the Pens & Twitter
"A player's game is a composition. Sometimes it's a line, sometimes a paragraph. Right now, Crosby's game is a novel." -Scott Burnside
by AllieLXXXVII on Dec 30, 2010 5:47 PM EST up reply actions
But, I will say, that I’m getting to that point.
My Thoughts on the Pens & Twitter
"A player's game is a composition. Sometimes it's a line, sometimes a paragraph. Right now, Crosby's game is a novel." -Scott Burnside
by AllieLXXXVII on Dec 30, 2010 5:47 PM EST up reply actions
I agree with this for the most part, but I think it is a bit harsh to say he is below average. I remember last year someone on hear was telling me how stupid I was to say that Geno wasn’t even in Crosby’s league.
Put on your dancin' shoes.
I remember last year someone on hear was telling me how stupid I was to say that Geno wasn’t even in Crosby’s league.
I don’t understand this, mind going into a bit more detail?
Hockey Blogger at Pensburgh.com
What gets me and either saddens me or frustrates me (it depends) is the inconsistency.
In the past 18 months since the Smythe, we’ve seen flashes of brilliance from Geno, so it’s not like his talent has disappeared. He teases us, then bam(!)—right back to the old Geno.
My Thoughts on the Pens & Twitter
"A player's game is a composition. Sometimes it's a line, sometimes a paragraph. Right now, Crosby's game is a novel." -Scott Burnside
by AllieLXXXVII on Dec 30, 2010 2:11 PM EST up reply actions
Happy New Year to everyone that I won’t see around before the WC :D
Hey, if you’re gonna call us birds you might as well call us chickens.
The universe moves depending on where Sidney Crosby is on the ice - IHeartPenguins
Recently-converted Certified Grabbo lover
oh, and seeing Sid swear on TV was a nice change
Hey, if you’re gonna call us birds you might as well call us chickens.
The universe moves depending on where Sidney Crosby is on the ice - IHeartPenguins
Recently-converted Certified Grabbo lover
I loved it, honestly. I mean, I could read his lips the past few seasons, but hearing it was even better than listening to NASCAR in-car radio. I really want something similar for the NHL now—be able to dial in to a specific player or group of player’s on-ice mics online and get an uncensored feed. (I don’t think that could work all the time, however. The technology and logistics are simply too different.)
"Darling, you say Brooks Orpik 'checked' that guy. He did not 'get under him and put him into the wall'."--Beloved to me, Winter 2007
Cocktails With the Penguins, where Pens fans toast victories and drown defeats.
by GreenEyedLilo on Dec 30, 2010 11:13 AM EST up reply actions
She probably is around more people who say the words on the show than you are.
You’d be surprised how much teens cuss.
My Thoughts on the Pens & Twitter
"A player's game is a composition. Sometimes it's a line, sometimes a paragraph. Right now, Crosby's game is a novel." -Scott Burnside
by AllieLXXXVII on Dec 30, 2010 5:08 PM EST up reply actions
/looks innocent
Hey, if you’re gonna call us birds you might as well call us chickens.
The universe moves depending on where Sidney Crosby is on the ice - IHeartPenguins
Recently-converted Certified Grabbo lover
Uh huh
My Thoughts on the Pens & Twitter
"A player's game is a composition. Sometimes it's a line, sometimes a paragraph. Right now, Crosby's game is a novel." -Scott Burnside
by AllieLXXXVII on Dec 30, 2010 5:48 PM EST up reply actions
You’d be surprised how much teens cuss.
This actually surprises people?
Hey, an out is an out - unless you're Mario, in which case it's probably two outs. -UtesFan89
Hard work always beats talent if talent doesn't work hard.
Hey, if you’re gonna call us birds you might as well call us chickens. -Leafer87
ARE YOU F#$%ING KIDDING ME!!!! ADAMS!!! JESUS TAPDANCING CHRIST YOU HAD 24 SQUARE FEET AND YOU MISSED IT ALL!! - OlenWhitaker
Yes, and you kids—Leafer, too—can swear in French.
It sounds much nicer in French!
Hockey keeps us sane. Life would suck without it.
Let's go Pens! Let's go Canucks!
Sidney Crosby can shoot waffles my way, any day...
by PensFanInDenver on Dec 31, 2010 2:25 PM EST up reply actions
ooh permission to swear?
Hey, if you’re gonna call us birds you might as well call us chickens.
The universe moves depending on where Sidney Crosby is on the ice - IHeartPenguins
Recently-converted Certified Grabbo lover
en francais
Follow the Penguins on SBN @ Pensburgh.com, twitter and now on the official Pensburgh Facebook page
bien sur. This shall be interesting :P
Hey, if you’re gonna call us birds you might as well call us chickens.
The universe moves depending on where Sidney Crosby is on the ice - IHeartPenguins
Recently-converted Certified Grabbo lover
It will. =D
Hey, an out is an out - unless you're Mario, in which case it's probably two outs. -UtesFan89
Hard work always beats talent if talent doesn't work hard.
Hey, if you’re gonna call us birds you might as well call us chickens. -Leafer87
ARE YOU F#$%ING KIDDING ME!!!! ADAMS!!! JESUS TAPDANCING CHRIST YOU HAD 24 SQUARE FEET AND YOU MISSED IT ALL!! - OlenWhitaker
Given the way Lindas1st (jokingly) reacted, it might surprise him.
My Thoughts on the Pens & Twitter
"A player's game is a composition. Sometimes it's a line, sometimes a paragraph. Right now, Crosby's game is a novel." -Scott Burnside
by AllieLXXXVII on Dec 31, 2010 2:51 PM EST up reply actions
I finally have a really clever sign idea for a game, and we’ve decided against going to the Winter Classic because LaGuardia’s still backed up and we’re traveled out. (Sorry, our tickets are already spoken for.)
So my SIL will make and hold it for me: “#87, start a new streak today, not a new mustache!”
"Darling, you say Brooks Orpik 'checked' that guy. He did not 'get under him and put him into the wall'."--Beloved to me, Winter 2007
Cocktails With the Penguins, where Pens fans toast victories and drown defeats.
I sincerely hope someone holds up that sign and that I see it and Crosby sees it. If there is another streak, and as stressful as it is to follow I sincerely hope that this begins another one, Sid needs to have a different superstition to keep it going….not that mustache.
I wonder if...
Crosby had Martin in there when he shaved off the mustache (assuming he shaved it), just to poke some fun at him.
Good luck with that
Honestly, it wouldn’t surprise me if Sid didn’t shave the stache just because things are going so well right now.
Now, for the rest of his career, he’s most definitely growing a stache every time he’s on a point streak—Sid’s so crazy, that there’s no lobbying him (even by his poor Mom).
You can run and tell that. =]
My Thoughts on the Pens & Twitter
"A player's game is a composition. Sometimes it's a line, sometimes a paragraph. Right now, Crosby's game is a novel." -Scott Burnside
by AllieLXXXVII on Dec 30, 2010 1:49 PM EST up reply actions
It’s worth a shot. I’ve never come up with decent signs for sporting events; we both really liked that one.
"Darling, you say Brooks Orpik 'checked' that guy. He did not 'get under him and put him into the wall'."--Beloved to me, Winter 2007
Cocktails With the Penguins, where Pens fans toast victories and drown defeats.
by GreenEyedLilo on Dec 30, 2010 5:59 PM EST up reply actions
By all means, go ahead and do it.
I was just sayin’.
My Thoughts on the Pens & Twitter
"A player's game is a composition. Sometimes it's a line, sometimes a paragraph. Right now, Crosby's game is a novel." -Scott Burnside
by AllieLXXXVII on Dec 30, 2010 6:11 PM EST up reply actions
Yea, but he only was crazy for the mustache
because he had the mustache for another reason, and then got hot(or stayed hot however you want to put it). He didn’t grow the mustache to create the point streak… I mean, next time he gets on a point streak, he’s not going to start growing the mustache, cause that could then have the opposite effect… He doesn’t change things to keep the streak alive, and growing the mustache after the streak already started(and is considered a streak), would be a change and thus ruin the streak.
I know he’s kinda crazy(his jock for instance), and maybe next time it’s something else that he keeps for a prolonged period of time… but I don’t think he’ll have a lucky mustache to fall back on for the rest of his career and keep bringing it out.
I’m saying that the next time he’s on streak, he’ll more than likely grow a mustache. I’m having a hard time following your first paragraph…lol.
My Thoughts on the Pens & Twitter
"A player's game is a composition. Sometimes it's a line, sometimes a paragraph. Right now, Crosby's game is a novel." -Scott Burnside
by AllieLXXXVII on Dec 30, 2010 7:26 PM EST up reply actions
Sorry
My point was that you don’t change things once you get on a streak, and growing a mustache after a streak has started would be a change.
It’s just a coincidence that this time, he was already growing the mustache and the streak started, so he kept it…
TSN's Top 50 NHL Players
#1 Sidney Crosby
-The legend grows with each passing year in the NHL; in Year 1 he became the youngest player to score 100 points; in Year 2 he won the Art Ross and Hart Trophies; in Year 3, he led the Stanley Cup playoffs in scoring; in Year 4, he became the youngest captain to win the Stanley Cup; and in Year 5 he scored 50 goals … but none of them was as important as the one that gave Canada an Olympic gold medal on home ice and sent a country into delirium.
link?
My Thoughts on the Pens & Twitter
"A player's game is a composition. Sometimes it's a line, sometimes a paragraph. Right now, Crosby's game is a novel." -Scott Burnside
by AllieLXXXVII on Dec 30, 2010 5:24 PM EST up reply actions
Thank ya, sir.
My Thoughts on the Pens & Twitter
"A player's game is a composition. Sometimes it's a line, sometimes a paragraph. Right now, Crosby's game is a novel." -Scott Burnside
by AllieLXXXVII on Dec 30, 2010 5:48 PM EST up reply actions
There should be many more links like that before season’s end.
My Thoughts on the Pens & Twitter
"A player's game is a composition. Sometimes it's a line, sometimes a paragraph. Right now, Crosby's game is a novel." -Scott Burnside
by AllieLXXXVII on Dec 30, 2010 6:46 PM EST up reply actions
87!!!!!!
Hey, if you’re gonna call us birds you might as well call us chickens.
The universe moves depending on where Sidney Crosby is on the ice - IHeartPenguins
Recently-converted Certified Grabbo lover
Why is there a Habs logo and a number 29 in the background?
I'm looking forward to reading Crosby's novel.
Because Sid grew up rooting for the Habs and his sister wears #29.
My Thoughts on the Pens & Twitter
"A player's game is a composition. Sometimes it's a line, sometimes a paragraph. Right now, Crosby's game is a novel." -Scott Burnside
by AllieLXXXVII on Dec 30, 2010 9:09 PM EST up reply actions
Ah. His sister. I was coming up all Ken Dryden, and it didn’t really make any sense!
I'm looking forward to reading Crosby's novel.
Wait, wait…I think it actually stands for his Dad’s number, who was drafted by the Habs.
Taylor Crosby just took the same number as her dad.
My Thoughts on the Pens & Twitter
"A player's game is a composition. Sometimes it's a line, sometimes a paragraph. Right now, Crosby's game is a novel." -Scott Burnside
by AllieLXXXVII on Dec 30, 2010 9:35 PM EST up reply actions
Ignore the ugliness and focus on the Awesomeness that is Sid. And Max
Hey, if you’re gonna call us birds you might as well call us chickens.
The universe moves depending on where Sidney Crosby is on the ice - IHeartPenguins
Recently-converted Certified Grabbo lover
Even if a gun was held to my head, or the NHL abolished all teams other than the Habs, I could not be a Habs fan…their fans are SO ANNOYING! There has to be a 90% fan base of bandwagon jumpers just for all the Cup wins – they have been pretty bad for the past 15 or so years.
Get in the fast lane Grandma, the bingo game's ready to roll!
by PensForTheWin on Dec 31, 2010 10:20 AM EST up reply actions
and about half the bandwagoners are from Toronto >.>
Hey, if you’re gonna call us birds you might as well call us chickens.
The universe moves depending on where Sidney Crosby is on the ice - IHeartPenguins
Recently-converted Certified Grabbo lover
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