Pens to move Staal to 2nd line and acquire a new center by the trade deadline?
by Hooks Orpik on Feb 2, 2010 1:45 PM EST
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PrintThe Pensblog gets the ball rolling with a new, intruiging trade deadline strategy that general manager Ray Shero might consider:
Is Staal's play of late making the Pens contemplate a shift in thinking?
As in, bumping Staal up to number-2 center and trying to acquire a solid two-way third-line center?
Think about it: Staal and Craig Adams are sub 50% faceoff guys and Evgeni Malkin is sub 40% in the circle. As a result, Sidney Crosby (57.2%) has to bear a heavy burden, he's currently taken 37% of the Pens faceoffs.
Bumping Staal up to 2nd line forward of course creates a problem: it takes Malkin out of his natural position. Malkin is proficient on the wing, but arguably not at his most effective. If Geno can settle into a winger role and get comfortable there, it of course resolves the problem of not having enough skill on the wing. The $64,000 question is, can Malkin do that? Is he willing?
There's little doubt Staal's been playing good enough recently to be a 2nd line center, and whether or not Malkin plays on his line or with Crosby, it adds a whole new dimension to the offense.
Here's what the assumed lines would look like post-trade deadline (assuming full health, which we all know is a fleeting concept)
Kunitz-Crosby-Guerin
Malkin-Staal-Fedotenko
Cooke-TRADE-Kennedy
Dupuis-Talbot/Adams-Rupp
Finding a checking forward isn't that difficult to do, but finding a "sellers" at this trading deadline might be, as only four teams are out of the playoff hunt. Let's set the standard of being an honest, hard-working center that's at least 50% proficient this season on a team that is amongst the 4 lowest in the league (TOR, CAR, EDM, CBS). The player must have a reasonably friendly contract and bonus points if the player is a FA to be. Plus/minus isn't a good indicator for us here, since these guys come from teams where they allow more goals than they score (so everyone ought to be bad there) but it is important to have a +/- relative to teammates.
Behind the jump, possible candidates for the Penguins if GM Ray Shero wants to shift Malkin to wing and bump Staal up a line for this playoff run:
Wayne Primeau
#18 / Center / Toronto Maple Leafs
6-4
225
Jun 04, 1976
Salary: $1.4 million (expires 2009-10)
Reasons for Yay: Very strong 55.8% in the faceoff circle, good size, expiring contract and reasonable cap hit, plays for a team that probably would trade him
Reasons for Nay: Probably better suited as a 4th line center than a 3rd for a contender at this stage of his career. Like Crosby, is left-handed, so his strong side isn't as strong as Sid's, so what would he really offer?
Matt Cullen
#8 / Center / Carolina Hurricanes
6-1
200
Nov 02, 1976
Salary: $2.875 million cap hit (expires 2009-10)
Yay: Has Stanley Cup experience with the Canes, almost surely is on the trading block, is better all-around player than just a checking line center, is a plus player on a bad team.
Nay: Only 48.9% winner of faceoffs this season, his salary might be too much for the Pens to take on, also is left-handed
Samuel Pahlsson
#26 / Center / Columbus Blue Jackets
6-0
204
Dec 17, 1977
Salary: $2.675 million cap hit (expires 2011-12)
Yay: Has Stanley Cup experience with the Ducks, solid 53.9% at faceoffs this season
Nay: Doesn't provide much offense, has a contract for two more season that's a little too rich.
There could be other options out there, but I think clearly Cullen is the best choice. He might not be the pure "checking" center or defensive specialist, but he's a speedy player with experience and plays a smart game. In my head at least, Cullen could look pretty good in between Matt Cooke and Tyler Kennedy on the Pens 3rd line.
Hopefully, as the Olympic break passes, teams may be willing to sell players, but I wouldn't count on it. 13 teams are set up in each conference to think they can compete for the top 8, which is going to mean not much of a supply.
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Short and to the point and very accurate.
And if not Letestu, why not just have Talbot center that line?
I think Talbot needs to prove he can stay healthy as this point before we start working him into the third line. I don’t know. Obviously you can bank on putting him in a place like that but you can’t bank on his health at the moment. Seems a bit risky to assume he can take on that role when he hasn’t done much throughout the year to prove he can.
But this is likely just me being overly cautious.
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Letestu’s been very solid in the games he’s played. (Incidentally, the Pens are 4-0-1 in those games). Also, he’s very good at faceoffs. Right now, he’s at 59.5% in 42 attempts. Talbot is 26.2% with the same number of draws. With Crosby out of the Chicago game, Bylsma turned to Letestu to win that critical last-minute faceoff—which led directly to the Staal goal and OT. The Pens don’t need to look elsewhere for another center.
Yes.
I was thinking the same thing, that Talbot is pretty much horrible on the face offs.
A bee in a bird's nest never made no honey, and a bird in a hive sang no song.
nice comment, monge. I don’t know how much faith the team would have in a guy with so few NHL games, but I agree Letestu’s impressed me every time he’s been in the lineup. I’d hope he gets the chance, but I don’t think the team will entrust a regular spot in the lineup to him.
I’d like to see him get the chance though. Letestu might not be as proven as Adams, but you could easily argue he’s a better player.
"I'm glad I got drafted first, because no one remembers number two." -- Alexandre Daigle
Don’t like it. The Pens strength is their depth at center. That’s all there is to it. Keep shopping for wingers Mr. Shero.
I agree completely. The 3 have worked well, why mess with things. No way Malkin should be on the wing. Go buy a winger.
I somewhat agree...
But why are so many people willing to sacrafice either of the top two lines for the third.
Regarding Malkin playing wing. I think he would make a better winger than center. I hate to take the puck out of his hands like that, but his strengths seem, to me at least, to project him as a winger. I’ve been wanting him on the wing for years. After the last two games it seems like Disco Dan might be tinkering with the idea as well.
I really don’t think it’s a good idea to go looking outside the organization for a 3rd line center (Talbot, Adams, Letestu, Jeffrey…). Even if it’s only short term I believe it’s better if they trade for someone to be for a winger or a stable stay at home defender.
You have to see it for yourself...
Who’s out there that’s affordable and from a team willing to deal?
No upgrade over Eaton, McKee or Orpik.
I think the Pens have enough muscle, they just need to hope for some luck and health to get them all back for the playoffs
"I'm glad I got drafted first, because no one remembers number two." -- Alexandre Daigle
I think disrupting the power and dominance that the third line of Cookie-Staal-TK has shown us will be horrible. This line is amazing, and is feared or at least causes problems throughout the entire league. I would prefer getting a Winger and hope that Malkin just starts pulling his weight on the faceoff.
A bee in a bird's nest never made no honey, and a bird in a hive sang no song.
What about Alexei Ponikarovsky? His cap hit is only $2.105, and he’s on pace for 27G, 29A. He’s said to be a responsible two-way player, sets up in the crease, and is a left shot LW. Plus he’s Ukrainian, so you’d think he’d fit in well with Malkin and Fedotenko. I just don’t know if Brian Burke is still shopping him, now that he’s sent so much of his offense off to Calgary…
I didn’t even mention him because his cap hit is 3.75m for the next two years, so he’s not even in the ballpark.
"I'm glad I got drafted first, because no one remembers number two." -- Alexandre Daigle
It wouldn’t matter for an expiring contract, there’s a little wiggle room that could be exploited (trade.waive Adams and/or Skoula)
"I'm glad I got drafted first, because no one remembers number two." -- Alexandre Daigle
I will agree that our strength at center is rooted in having Staal front the the third line creating match up problems with opponent’s third lines. But I think that the efforts of Cooke and TK are just as much a reason as Staalsy’s greater play.
I personally am giddy with the idea of having Malkin, Staal and Crosby interchangeable on any of the top three lines. I remember back in the playoffs last year when we would double shift Malkin and Crosby on the 4th line, instantly raising the quality to equal that of a 2nd line. I would not be opposed to putting Letestu, Talbot or Adams penciled in to the 3rd and 4th lines, and then have Crosby/Malkin/Staal double shifted while we pick up a big defensive d-man. It may not be a popular view, but hey…its the internet, there aren’t consequences on the internet…
"Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force; like fire, a troublesome servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action." - George Washington
by Hockey Beard in SLC on Feb 2, 2010 2:44 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Personally, I strongly agree with you. Rotating Crosby, Malkin, and Staal to that “4th line” worked well last year, and I believe the rotation gives the 3 centers the extra ice time they should get at the end of a season and into the playoffs.
However, I still feel the team could use one more finisher to consistently put the puck in the back of the net. I like the defensive system based on positioning and shot blocking, and feel a big man on the blue line is going to require too many assets going the other way.
As always though, I’m sure Shero will find a way to make it all work.
R.J. Umberger
one or the rumor mills on espn stated that the pens are interested in RJ umberger and i think he would be a great choice. he is on a 8pt in 8 game pts streak, and is projected to have 53 pts for the year. he is 27, a hometown boy, and always has big games aginst the pens. he can play wing and center too.
they r rumored to be shopping letang posibly for this trade. y?
Hey Hooks!!
I recommended this line ( 71-11-26) during a gameday thread and you said I was being sarcastic!!!
Thoughts on it now that we’ve seen it come to fruition?
Trades
ship Adams out, bring Letestu up after he gets a bit more polished in faceoffs the rest of the season, faceoffs require more training and mehanichs than talent (although having it won’t hurt you). Primaeu would be OK, but has a hx of injuries including the latest one concussion. I say wait and see what’s available, unload some dead wood one way or another. I a rent a player is available so be it. Shero knows how to trade to IMPROVE the team, not just to get a new face in the locker room. Some of the names mentioned above are too costly in terms of money or trade or both. Like RJ, it would be great but reality says he won’t be playing for the Pens any time soon. Also I’m not sure the Jackets would trade him unless they get a lot in return.
A fourth round pick to the KHL? Hes in Europe now.
by biggoron on Feb 2, 2010 7:39 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
If we need a winger. . .
Sykora’s out there again. Maybe just let him sweat out not playing for a while and then offer him peanuts to come back.
A bee in a bird's nest never made no honey, and a bird in a hive sang no song.
Heard Rod Brindamour was on the trading block…
by stoopidtom on Feb 2, 2010 6:53 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Rod Brind’Amour is a shell of himself, unfortunately (think John LeClair in a Pens uni). No thanks, unfortunately I think he’s shot.
"I'm glad I got drafted first, because no one remembers number two." -- Alexandre Daigle
Agree. Someone presented Molinari with a similar question earlier this month and he more or less leaned toward “no” (without actually saying it).
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Wow… -25 and only 13 points… Did not realize he was a shell of his former self.
by stoopidtom on Feb 2, 2010 10:07 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
It was boys, don’t worry. Though I do think Satan could have come in handy.
A bee in a bird's nest never made no honey, and a bird in a hive sang no song.
satan is not the answer either. Ray Whitney I think would be the best fit as the short term solution. problem is too many other teams probably will be after him as well.
Randy: Ray Whitney has a no-trade clause an supposedly playing with Crosby is the #1 thing he’s interested in (more tomorrow on Pensburgh)
but then again Paul Kariya and Scott Niedermayer were gonna come play with Mario, so who knows if it’ll happen
"I'm glad I got drafted first, because no one remembers number two." -- Alexandre Daigle
Me too, it must have been a joke, after his comments about the coach. No more Pens for him.
That was a fake inteview from a Czech tabloid, Sykora never publicaly dissed Bylsma.
(I still don’t think Petr Gunn fits the Pens system anymore though)
"I'm glad I got drafted first, because no one remembers number two." -- Alexandre Daigle
Get rid of Skoula, get a stopper D-Man!!!
I agree with Bla Razor. Let’s face it: Skoula has trouble ice-skating just like “clumsy Hal”. Get rid of Skoula, he’s the weak-link, and get a solid D-Man so we can stop other teams from giving us heart-attacks like Buffalo did the other day when they destroyed our D early on. We don’t need to mess with the 3rd line or get more offensive firepower. Solid defense and discipline is what helped us win it last year and we will need it again this year to stop the Caps, Jersey, Chicago, etc. Could we get somebody like Kaberle?
"Let's Go Pens!!"
Nittany Lions 4 Life
Definately Agree but I'm not crazy about your picks
I think there are a couple of other NHL teams that are starting to slip out of the playoff race that you can find better centers on. I kinda’ like Saku Koivu from Anaheim and also Eric Belanger from MIN is a cheaper cap hit. Both are becoming free agents at the end of the seaon I think.
Saku Koivu 3.2 Million 717 Faceoffs Taken 51.2 % F/O Plays 2rd line
20 Goal Scorer +/- 7 so good in his own end
Eric Belanger 1.7 Million 647 Faceoffs Taken 58.3 % F/O Plays 3rd line
20 Goal Scorer +/- 0 so not a big liability in his own end
My picks weren’t the best but both Anaheim and Minnesota are just a handful of points put of the playoffs…It’s hard to see them packing it in and selling useful players….Especially when 3 teams last year made great runs from Feb to April (STl, CAR and the Pens) to get into the playoffs
"I'm glad I got drafted first, because no one remembers number two." -- Alexandre Daigle
by Hooks Orpik on Feb 2, 2010 11:26 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
No your picks weren’t bad I just thought there were better players that MIGHT be available (only my opinion though). As for MIN and ANA they are only a bit out of 8th now but…..they are starting to slip which could be good for Pitts. The other thing is that the trade deadline I think is not until the end of FEB. So maybe they might slip even further. But anyway, the fact that they need a good third line center with a F/O % higher than 50 is the smartest thing I’ve seen anyone write yet. It’s acutally great that you picked up on it. So koodoos, we’re in agreement. I hope the Pitts managment sees the same thing and fixes it. Cheers.
Something to think about
Have you ever wondered why Ovechkin is doing so good? I mean a +/- of like 35 or something and he’s scoring a goal a game. The same goes for the big line in San Jose. Let me give you a name David Steckel (Capitals), ever heard of him? A forth line center who takes 800 faceoffs, more than Backstrum but only plays half the minutes of Backstrum. How is that possibe? Let me tell you. Simple…it’s coaching. If the puck is your own end and there’s a F/O put steckal out and let him expel his energy for the 30 seconds it takes to get the puck out of your own end. Then when it goes up ice, CHANGE UP, out comes ovechkin’s line. No wonder the clown scores so many goals he gets to play 80% of his shifts in the offensive zone and don’t have to worry about playing defense. That means he doesn’t have to worry that much about playing in his own end. MORE TIME in the offensive end means more points all because you have a dependable 3rd or 4th line center to get the puck out of your own end during Defensive zone faceoffs.
NOW lets take Crosby. The most faceoffs in the league. 1200. Plays 22 min a game, and since he’s the only one on the penguins with a F/O % over 50%. It’s a fair statement to say that half his shifts are spent taking critical draws in his own end (NEEDLESSLY) and that if he losses the draw he has to recover the puck, then skate a 190 feet while tired and then CHANGE UP, let malkin out. WTF. Are you kidding ME? You can’t have a 8 million dollar man taken critical def. zone faceoffs and playing a checking role simply because you haven’t found a Two way center with a F/O % over 50. GET SOMEBODY and let CROSBY LOSSE in the OFFENSIVE ZONE more OFTEN, let him use his energy in the offensive zone to get points not spend valuable shifts, time, and energy getting the puck up ice cause you don’t have a DAVID STECKAL.
Also look at the San JOSE sharks that are tearing it up right now. Ever heard of JOE Pevalski, and Scott Nickel. No. Me either. Two centers with about a 60% F/O percentage. That allows the the Number one line to concentrate most of thier shifts and energy in the Offensive zone, and taking offensive zone F/O’s, which translates into more opportunities off of faceoffs by your best players, which means more goals …..thus in the end more WINS for the team. Get a David Steckal, Scott Nickel type player and Let the first and second lines take the offensive zone faceoffs.
by mikes0426 on Feb 2, 2010 11:40 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
This is why I think bringing up Letestu a bit more is a good idea. Let him take some of the load of Crosby.
Anyone know of a way to gather data on the percentage of draws in the offensive/defensive/neutral zone for players? It’s a longshot, I know, but it would be interesting.
"Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force; like fire, a troublesome servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action." - George Washington
by Hockey Beard in SLC on Feb 3, 2010 12:54 AM EST up reply actions
Forgot to qualify my statement about Lets…
Bring him up, and let him prove himself a bit more in this stretch before the Olympics. If he stays solid on the draws, then give him some more time. I am firmly in the school of thinking that we don’t need to deal for another centerman…D and a purely scoring winger are more important (in that order).
"Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force; like fire, a troublesome servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action." - George Washington
by Hockey Beard in SLC on Feb 3, 2010 12:56 AM EST up reply actions
The main reason that Ovechkin has such a crazy big + rating is that, when he’s on the ice, the other team thinks only about keeping him from scoring and not about scoring themselves. So he never really has to play defense — luckily, since it’s unlikely he could be made to do so…
I think crosby attracks as much or more attention then ovechkin when on the ice. Prime example is last year playoffs against Detroit. They had Zettenburg, Cleary, Lidstrom, & Refalski all out against Crosby and ignored Malkin. That’s arguable 4 of the best two way players detroit has, out against one guy. It’s not suprising that he didn’t get any points in that series. As I recall 4 or 5 days ago washington played detroit and Ovechkin didn’t get a point eithier. Anyway you want to look at it, if you have to take more draws in your own end you will waste a lot of energy, and give up a lot more scoring opportunities. It’s enevitable.
Also something else. Washington has a big advantage over Pittsburgh. Since the new division setup a few years back each division plays members of thier own division 6 times and members of the rest of the conference only 4 times.
In washington’s division is Washington, Tampa Bay, Florida, Carolina, and Atlanta. Wow what a load of quality teams and goaltenders. The only one of interest is cam ward with carolina is sucking it up this year. Florida goalie this year..ANYONE??..a good defensive team…NO. Diddo for Atlanta and Tampa Bay. That gives ovi 8 extra games against sub par teams to score more goals and land higher in the standing. Since the top in that divions goes 1st, 2nd, or 3rd automatically in the conference standing. Advantage for the playoffs as well.
In pittsburgh’s divsion there’s Pittsburgh, New Jersey, Philadelphia, New York Rangers, and Islanders. A lot harder division if you ask me with much better teams. You can’t even compare this division team’s points versus the Southeast (washington) because it would be misleading since they play the better teams more often.
On the Penguins….
The Penguins have the current best offer on the table for Ray Whitney as we sit here tonight.
Interesting blurb about Calgary and Carolina…what deal would be bigger? Staal? Ward? or just a bunch of guys?…Calgary has already dealt alot this year…
"Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force; like fire, a troublesome servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action." - George Washington
by Hockey Beard in SLC on Feb 3, 2010 3:15 AM EST up reply actions
Just for the record, we don’t bank a lot on Eklund/Hockey Buzz around these parts. It is a rumor on a few other sites as well, but when it comes to Eklund he just kinda skims what everyone else is saying and projects it as his own. Hooks will have something on Whitney later today.
Follow the Penguins on SBN @ Pensburgh.com and twitter.
Well yeah. Basically what I’m saying is, F Eklund and link to the other sites ;-)
Follow the Penguins on SBN @ Pensburgh.com and twitter.
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