Ilya Kovalchuk traded to Devils
by FrankD on Feb 4, 2010 7:49 PM EST
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PrintWell, the wait is over. Ilya Kovalchuk is a Devil and Anssi Salmela, a former Devils prospect, will return to Jersey. In exchange, Johnny Oduya, (this season's) Penguin killer Niclas Bergfors, Patrice Cormier, and a 2010 first-round pick will head off to Atlanta.
SBN's NHL page is all over the Kovalchuk trade
ESPN has a bit on it as well
Also keep your eyes on In Lou We Trust and Bird Watchers Anonymous for each SBN blogger's take on the moves
Immediate reaction: This doesn't bode well for the Pens. Although they've done a pretty solid job of containing Kovalchuk this season, the Devils are another animal all together. Now with Kovalchuk on board, they have a potent offensive threat to go with an already solid defense.
Concerns?
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I wonder how Kovalchuk feels about going to a trap system. Must be loving it.
"Where can you go from there? Where? ... Nowhere. Exactly. What we do is, if we need that extra push over the cliff, you know what we do?"
And only my first thoughts, which didn’t last long. The more I mused on the trade and thought about it … I came to this conclusion which have also been brought up here, at the bar with my friends last night, and at other SBN hockey-centric blogs.
Just curious … Why, as Pens fans, are you “scared to death of the Devils” as genomachine-O puts it in one of his points below?
"Where can you go from there? Where? ... Nowhere. Exactly. What we do is, if we need that extra push over the cliff, you know what we do?"
Not scared to death...
We have the two best players in the game (humor me, Mr.Caps fan). There is no reason to be scared. The cause for concern is that we have scored exactly 2 goals in 4 games against the Devils this year and they potentially got exponentially better offensively. Even if their D is a little less good, we still need to solve Marty and stop them from scoring, which has gotten more difficult with the addition of Kovalchuck. (Even if 2009 Pens killer Bergfors is gone)
The cards are on the table, Ray, what do you have up your sleeve?
I'll be happy to oblige ...
Correction:
We have the two best players in the game behind that selfish, dirty, mutha’uckin caveman
Humored enough?
Substitute concern for “scared to death.” Semantics aside, I was just curious. I’m actually arguing some similar sentiments of concern over at the Rink and elsewhere. The Devils have legitimately become a contender (on paper) and even with the way the Caps’ offense is rolling right now, I think it’s pretty fair to say I’m weary of Jacques squad come playoff time. Weary enough to have devilish nightmares …
I also think it would be a tremendous mistake to be as dismissive of the Devils and brodeur as a fellow Rinker puts it …
Vintage Marty isn’t going to show up for two reasons:
1) It isn’t 2000.
2) Stevens, Nieds, Rafalski et al. don’t play for the Devils anymore.
"Where can you go from there? Where? ... Nowhere. Exactly. What we do is, if we need that extra push over the cliff, you know what we do?"
Correction of a correction
We have the two of the three best players in the game including that selfish, dirty, mutha’uckin, dirty, knee-on-kneeing, dirty, POS, dirty, no defense playing, dirty, snaggle-tooth, dirty, one dimensional, dirty, caveman.
Fixed. (and for those that remember me saying I would never say AO doesn’t play defense again, over on Japer’s, I lied. :D)
Agreed on dismissing Marty and the Devils. On paper they have everything needed to make a deep cup run, other than a true offensive defenseman. It will be fun to see how this plays out.
yup I’m hearing the same. And maybe a prospect or pick in there as well.
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Hard to believe thats all they are getting after what the rumored asking price was. They should have demanded Zajac
Don’t they already have a top-line center in Peverley?
Bergfors/Oduya seems decent for Kovy, depending on what the prospect/pick coming Atlanta’s way is.
Hey, an out is an out - unless you're Mario, in which case it's probably two outs. -UtesFan89
Why can't Mendy bust a long TD run? We could use it.
If there’s a prospect or pick. I’m thinking that may be the last thing ironed out, if it’s there at all. But as of right now, the Devils still walk away winners.
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From what Im reading Oduya has not been good this year and makes 3 million, but yeah if the pick and prospect is good then its not a bad return
Hearing now that the prospect is one Mattias Tedenby
and that Atlanta gets NJ’s first rounder next year, as well.
Good?
Hey, an out is an out - unless you're Mario, in which case it's probably two outs. -UtesFan89
Why can't Mendy bust a long TD run? We could use it.
Change Tedenby to Cormier, via McKenzie.
Hey, an out is an out - unless you're Mario, in which case it's probably two outs. -UtesFan89
Why can't Mendy bust a long TD run? We could use it.
still seems like people aren’t sure of the extras yet. Palmieri, Tedenby, Cormier and a pick have all been thrown out there by the masses. I can’t imagine it’d be all of those but I don’t want to speculate which of the four are entirely accurate either. It’ll be confirmed in a few I’m sure.
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I don’t think this looks good. Until we figure out a way to stop the Devils scoring on us, who cares if Kovalchuk can’t play defense.
The Devils could be like the Colts a couple of years ago: have no defense whatsoever but just score score score until YOUR defense gets tired.
A bee in a bird's nest never made no honey, and a bird in a hive sang no song.
That’s some kind of irony you’re working with there.
by Hatt the Moople on Feb 4, 2010 8:11 PM EST up reply actions
Last update I read was; Oduya, Bergfors, Palmieri/Tedenby, and a First…
Avalanche fan stuck in the PBurgh area.
http://twitter.com/TSNBobMcKenzie
He confirms it.
by Hatt the Moople on Feb 4, 2010 8:15 PM EST up reply actions
Bob MacKenzie is reporting Patrice Cormier. I cannot believe they traded that kid.
by Hatt the Moople on Feb 4, 2010 8:14 PM EST up reply actions
Cormier instead of Palmieri/Tedenby, I mean.
by Hatt the Moople on Feb 4, 2010 8:15 PM EST up reply actions
Isn’t he a bit of a PR problem now?
Hey, an out is an out - unless you're Mario, in which case it's probably two outs. -UtesFan89
Why can't Mendy bust a long TD run? We could use it.
At the moment he is, but he’s only 19 and still a hell of a hockey player. He’ll be welcomed into the NHL next season with open arms.
by Hatt the Moople on Feb 4, 2010 8:17 PM EST up reply actions
This is a good deal for the Devils. One of most explosive offensive players in the league to compliment an already good offense. Plus, Brodeur in net? If things gel with Kovy the Devils could be scary.
I’ll be surprised if he does gel. I don’t see Kovalchuk as a guy that would excel in a Jacques Lemaire system, though I’ve been wrong before.
by Hatt the Moople on Feb 4, 2010 8:19 PM EST up reply actions
I think that’s what makes him dangerous, to be honest
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This is a good point. I live in MN and remember watching the Wild’s relatively boring offensive system under Lemaire. You would think there would something Lemaire could do to to make his system a little more adaptable to Kovy though.
by packallday555 on Feb 4, 2010 8:34 PM EST up reply actions
All right. Looks like it’s official:
Johnny Oduya, Niclas Bergfors, Patrice Cormier and a first-round pick will head off to Atlanta.
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Add in salmela from the thrashers.
Great deal for the Devils. just incredible. Lou is a genius. (yes I’m a devils fan, but anyone could look at those point totals and agree).
If Salmela is in on it then the Devs are getting back their own prospect. Interesting.
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On a side note, I purchased tix to the Leafs/Devils game last week. Wonder if he’ll be in town in time for it tomorrow night.
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forgive me if i’m wrong, but i’m watching the caps v. rangers game and they were making a big fuss about how he’d be playing against the rangers on saturday. unless the game is tomorrow, i’m thinking he’ll be there.
yeah I’m watching that game too. Pretty exciting actually.
And yeah, the game is tomorrow but a snow storm is expected to hit the northeast as well. He better fly in tonight…
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pleasantly surprised about it, haha.
oh, dang, i forgot about that snowstorm. i’m in nyc and no one’s telling me how much is expected. family’s in philly (i know) and they were saying max of 14 inches or so. i hope he’s there for your sake!
heh well if they’re expecting 10-20 inches around the arena in NJ then you can’t be far off from that in NYC, although it normally snows a bit less in the city than it does on the other side of the Hudson.
Stock up on essentials. Batten down the hatches. Work out your weekend hockey schedule and ride it out. :-)
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I hope you witness my own personal man-crush #3, Phaneuf,in your programs,treat him badly,as per the Burke program-because, all in all, it’s still Quebec vs the rest of Canada.
At first I thought you had three man crushes and Dion ranked third. I wasn’t going to judge or anything, but I was curious who ranked in the top two spots. Then I realized you were just pointing out Phaneuf’s jersey number. haha
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I think we can still beat the Devils and I think if he went to Washington it would have been worse, but still after Washington this would be the second place I would pick where I didnt want to see him go. Answer it Ray! Scott Niedermeyer
No way Niedermayer fits with his $6.75 million salary…And his play is slipping too.
Shero doesn’t need to make the biggest splash, just has to make the right one.
"I'm glad I got drafted first, because no one remembers number two." -- Alexandre Daigle
Dead on Hooks!
You took the words right out of my brain Hooks! This trade makes the Devils very scary, but if we get a (consistent) scoring winger and / or a physical D-man I think we’ll be just fine.
I personally would like to see Alexei Ponikarovski (Leafs) as a Penguin, especially since it seems like Shero isn’t shopping for Ray Whitney anymore. I’ve also heard Peter Mueller’s (Coyotes) name thrown around but I’m sure he’ll be sought after by many teams if he’s on the block.
I guess we just play the waiting game now and hope this news gave our Pens a little wake-up call. We’re only 1 point behind Jersey, but we need to turn it up a notch from here on out to stay at 4th place or better in the conference. Shero hasn’t let us down though, and I doubt he’ll start now.
by GenoTheGreat on Feb 4, 2010 11:54 PM EST up reply actions
Seriously
Obviously this makes the Devils look a lot stronger, but…
I’m surprised no one has really mentioned the fact that Kovalchuk, as a Devil, will have to be much more defensive and patient. Do you guys think he could really (and most importantly, want to) play a trap game. I mean, the guy thinks he’s worth $12 mill a year, so who knows if he will even adopt their system. I could see this failing in many ways, not only in July.
871
by PensFan8725 on Feb 4, 2010 8:59 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
As far as adopting their system, I guess he doesn’t have much a choice at this point. But to be honest I think that first PP unit is going to be intense. He has one hell of a shot from the point. Parise is a threat as well. Elias. Langenbrunner. No matter how you mix it, the Devils were a good team before Kovy. Now they’re just scary good.
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Does it really matter? At this point Lemaire may create a line with him to compensate for his lack of defense. Lamoriello made a great move, they needed a ‘star’ player there in NJ to pu some people in the seats. In spite of their success they very rarely sell out. Some times I’m surprised at how many empty seats you see on TV anyway. And it goes back several years, not because of the economy now. Great move by Lou, Comier is going to be nothing but trouble , at least at this point (already suspended right), and got the star he needed. And as a Penguin fan I thought that lately he was loosing it.
At this point Lemaire may create a line with him to compensate for his lack of defense.
You can always teach a player defense and how to play (Elias, Sykora were Devils). Can’t teach that shot he has.
"I'm glad I got drafted first, because no one remembers number two." -- Alexandre Daigle
Good point Hooks, as usual. I don’t think Kovy does not know how to play defense, he may (like so many of the Russian scorers)unwilling to do so , in order to possibly score more goals (unproven point). We see this trait on Kovalev ( now improved), Ovy (now getting better), Geno (???). What do you think
Well look at Gabby’s numbers under Lemaire compared to not under Lemaire. And that’s just on the Rangers, imagine if he were playing under Bylsma or Boudreau. I don’t expect Kovy to put up better numbers than he did in Atlanta. Still, Zajac, Parise, and Kovalchuk is a scary line.
He plays for the guy that used to say ‘safe is death’.
Gaborik scored 30 goals in 48 games in 2006-07 with Lemaire (pace for 51 goals without injury). He also scored 38 and 42 goals under Lemaire…..So it’s not like he’s suddenly breaking out
"I'm glad I got drafted first, because no one remembers number two." -- Alexandre Daigle
Kovy does not fit at all with NJ, and I’m guessing this will be coming back to bite them. The Dev’s have been cruising this year, and with Zajac, Parise, Langebrunner, Elias, Rolston, Berfors, etc, they should have added to their DEFENCE, not their scoring. Now with Oduya gone, they have a VERY unheralded and for the most part 2nd rate defence…so unless the Dev’s are planning another move to add a marquee defenseman, then I like the Pens chances to outscore NJ. Especially since no offense will be coming from the back end…I mean, who’s going to get the puck to all these skilled forwards anyways? They have one defenceman with over 11 pts (Greene – 24pts). So with all that said, Washington’s still my pick for scariest matchup come April…
PS – I hope Kovy rots in the KHL after this year anyways…asking for 20% of a teams available cap makes it quite obvious he is not there to help the team….and pretty nervy too, considering he’s a step below Sid/Geno/OV and wants to be paid more.
by LastSonOfKrypton on Feb 4, 2010 10:55 PM EST reply actions
PS – I hope Kovy rots in the KHL after this year anyways…asking for 20% of a teams available cap makes it quite obvious he is not there to help the team
That’s a good point. Kovalchuk’s agent is the same one that got Khabibulin paid, he’s very bottom line oriented. Who knows what teams is gonna give up $10-11 million a year for him.
I think the KHL could be a real possibility.
"I'm glad I got drafted first, because no one remembers number two." -- Alexandre Daigle
I think the KHL could be a real possibility
When the KHL is able to grab “in their prime Russian’s” away from the NHL, the rest of Europe is not far behind. Gone are the days when the best money is in the US. The new Russian oil and natural gas tsars will throw good money after bad the see these guys return home. I believe it is a foregone conclusion that he will sign in the KHL. Getting 20% of available cap space is not going to happen for ANY NHL player or the GM will be run out of town. I see him getting 12-15 per in Russia.
I disagree. The KHL’s top salaries are nowhere near what he would get in the NHL. He is not in a Jagr/Federov situation (end of career), nor is he Radulov/Hudler (younger players looking to make a quick buck).
He is one of the top 5 goal scorers in the world, and some NHL team will gladly pay him $8-9 million a year for 6-8 seasons.
(Look at this article from Mirtle last year: http://www.fromtherink.com/2009/4/23/849865/khl-salaries-slashed-in-redraft.)
He turned down $101 million/12 (with only $2mm in last 2 years, supposedly) from ATL ($30mm more than your MAX scenario).
I think you are under-estimating the power of the new Russian money. NJ Nets (NBA), Chelsea (UK) are some examples of teams that were purchased by these Russian billionaires. Because a current salary of this magnitude is not yet paid, does not mean there will not be a first for a dominant NHL goal scorer in his prime that is only looking for money.
Your story was written when oil dropped to $30/bbl. It is now $80/bbl. 267% more purchasing power in less than one year.
I’m not saying that there aren’t Russian oil billionaires out there. I’m saying that if, after just two years of operation, they had to readjust salaries across the board, a star player like Kovalchuk (and hopefully his agent) will look and see that the KHL isn’t the most stable league.
And what happens if oil again drops? It’s possible (it’s actually at just over $70 now) and probable. What will that do to the KHL?
And Kovalchuk turning down $102 million means that he didn’t want to continue to play in Atlanta, no matter what.
I hope you are right about the KHL. It will set a bad precedent for the next generation of NHL hockey. Or, we have a Euro league and a North American league in 10 years that meet for Lord Stanley’s cup. I doubt it, though, since the egocentrism that is North American hockey would never consider this upstart league world class for sometime, regardless of the quality of players at the top end.
And what happens if oil again drops? It’s possible (it’s actually at just over $70 now) and probable. What will that do to the KHL?
If oil drops to $30 again, it will be better to own guns and dry-bulk food since there will be riots on the streets and no one going to hockey games anyway. (only mostly a joke). And probable it will drop to $30, again? If you can predict this, we can make a shit-ton of money. I have a bunch of clients sitting on the sideline with buckets of cash. (not a joke)
“Now with Oduya gone, they have a VERY unheralded and for the most part 2nd rate defence…so unless the Dev’s are planning another move to add a marquee defenseman, then I like the Pens chances to outscore NJ.”
You seem to forget that this is the same unheralded/2nd rate defense that was 2nd in the league without Oduya or Martin. Think about it.
Great points LastSonOfKrypton and Hooks! I was just talking to my friend about this when we heard about the trade. I wouldn’t be surprised if the KHL offered him $15 million and he went chasing that money to Russia.
Team players make sacrifices to keep a team together (Crosby, Malkin, Brodeur to name a few), greedy players just chase paychecks (Hossa, Jagr, Kovalchuk, etc).
by GenoTheGreat on Feb 5, 2010 12:02 AM EST up reply actions
Martin will most definitely help, but I would still take the Pens D over the Dev’s anyday….
Gonchar > Martin
Letang > Greene
Orpik > White
Gogo > Mottau
McKee > Salvador
skly27 – 2nd in the league…in what? Certainly not scoring with the paltry totals put up by their defence corps. If it’s goals against, then I suspect that has more to do with Marty than anything… Dev’s have a solid, hardworking, blue collar defence, but I feel that they lack the impact defenceman that they should have got instead of adding a hired gun to an already potent offense.
Pressure’s on Shero now though, and if he wasn’t making a move before today’s news, he almost has to now.
by LastSonOfKrypton on Feb 4, 2010 11:40 PM EST reply actions
I’m going to piggy back off of what mikes0426 posted in the thread “Pens to move Staal to 2nd Line.” I was thinking about this at work tonight, and now I’m not so pessimistic about it.
Kovalchuk came from the Southeast division, where there is nothing. What kind of goal tending is in the South, and what kind of real scoring leaders or offensive power houses are there in that division?
Kovy is in the bigger, badder, more stocked Atlantic division now, as well as closer to playing the Northeast division. It’s easy to be the big kid on the playground when everyone else is smaller than you, but now Kovy is in middle school if you will, and there are kids just as big or bigger than he is. Let’s see how he does first before assuming he can do it all or will really blow up.
Plus, I like the arguments that he may not buy into the systems in New Jersey and may got chasing that dollar sign at the end of the year. It’s a lot harder to teach a solid offensive player defense, especially if they know they are a scorer.
A bee in a bird's nest never made no honey, and a bird in a hive sang no song.
Few thoughts on the trade
1. Thrashers didnt get enough. They got an unproven forward and average (mabye)defensemen and punk junior kid and a 25+overall pick.
2. As hockey fan, I’ll like getting to see Kovalchuk a little more.
3. As a Pens fan I’m scared to death of the Devils.
4. Does this force Ray Shero to look harder at making a move? He needs to do something to help his team beat the devils.
5. The price for Ray Whitney just went up even more.
6. Feel bad for Thrasher fans, the few there are, I really do.
7. He signs in the offseason for less money than ATL offered him. Waddell only made the offers they made him public to save his own ass with the public.
8. I dont think it was all about the money, to me I think he just wanted out of ATL and he knew what he was doing was going to get him out of there quick.
9. If hes really looking for 10+mil a year, he wont get it in the NHL, he will sign with the KHL next year.
NOthing
The Devils got KOVY for next to nothing in my opinion. he wants to win the cup, and i guess NJ is the best option to win. this is not good…
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