Kovalchuk to the Devils fallout...Where does Pittsburgh turn from here: Dallas Stars? Whitney? Ponikarovsky?
by Hooks Orpik on Feb 5, 2010 8:00 AM EST
in Rumors
55 comments
Given the Penguins tight-to-the-cap situation, as well as Ilya Kovalchuk's desire to maximize his contract/test free agency (possibly in the NHL as well as the KHL), there wasn't any traction for him getting dealt to Pittsburgh.
But now that he's been dealt not only to an Eastern Conference rival, but a division leader in the New Jersey Devils it raises the obvious question -- do the Pens need to answer?
After the jump...
There's a rumor floating around the interwebs that the Dallas Stars (who are seeking a puck moving defenseman or two) might make a good trading partner for the Pens. Dallas is interested in Kris Letang or Alex Goligoski, some names being brought up from the other end:
James Neal
#18 / Left Wing / Dallas Stars
6-3
205
Sep 03, 1987
Cap situation: 800k this season, RFA after it
Neal is about everything the Penguins lack -- he's a skilled goal-scoring winger that has size, a good shot and is reliable in all three zones. He's young, skates well and though he needs to be signed, could be a cog next to Sidney Crosby or Evgeni Malkin for years to come.
Jamie Benn's a rookie, and he's impressed; stepping right into the lineup and producing points at an impressive rate for a 20 year old. He's got two more seasons on his entry level contract and physically will only fill out more and continue to improve as he gets used to the NHL game.
To get either of those guys, assuming Dallas is interested in trading a young scoring winger for a young puck-moving defenseman would cost the Penguins Goligoski -- signed at a reasonable $1.833 million for two more years or Letang -- a 21 year old RFA-to-be that hasn't realized his total potential. Would Shero be feeling that aggressive? The defensive unit is currently thin as it is, even without the inevitable injuries.
The "sellers" have two fimiliar faces:
Ray Whitney
#13 / Left Wing / Carolina Hurricanes
5-10
180
May 08, 1972
Cap situation: $3.550m expires this season
Maybe the Pens are Whitney (who has a no trade clause) first choice, maybe they're not. Whitney scored 77 points in 82 game last season (and 11 more in 18 post-season games). He's got something in the tank, and he's got the skill and speed to stick on any contenders' Top 6. Will it be with the Pens? Will Carolina be asking too much? Does Whitney really favor Pittsburgh over all others? Remains to be seen.
Alexei Ponikarovsky
#23 / Left Wing / Toronto Maple Leafs
6-4
220
Apr 09, 1980
Cap situation: $2.105m (UFA after this season)
"Poni" has almost 500 NHL games to his credit, and he's proven to be a decent point producer. He's got good size, but questions about his heart and consistency remain. Brian Burke has proven he's willing to move anyone at anytime, so he's very well on the block. Riding shotgun to a Russian in Malkin might be just what the doctor ordered....Or maybe not.
Shero has his options, and if history repeats itself things could get interesting. Hey, on a four day break between games, it's nice to throw out names.
At the end of the day, I don't expect the Pens to deal either Letang or especially Goligoski. Though they'd love to add a big, young goal-scoring winger, time has shown it's tougher to get an NHL caliber defenseman that can skate and move the puck. Time will tell though.
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I am a huge fan of Kris Letang, and Gogo. But I would trade either one for James Neal anyday. James Neal is a beast. Hes a physical power forward that flat out can score goals. I have been dreaming about the Pens trading for Neal all season hes one of my favorite players. Two problems though, the pens would have to make a deal for a defenseman if they trade one of the two. And second I dont know if the pens could afford neal after this season. To me if this deal gets done it will be Letang going to Dallas because Gogo has a lower cap hit than Letang will.
With the ownership situation going on with the Stars there are rumors that payroll could be reduced even more come next season. I am wondering if they will be able to afford all of the young talent they have now. Plus they have to find a starting goalie this summer. There are a lot of things about a deal with the Stars that could make sense. Im praying….
If I had to rank em in order of my interest, I’d say
- James Neal
- Alexei Ponikarovsky
- Jamie Benn
- Ray Whitney
I wouldn’t be upset with any of them to be honest, although I would be happier with Benn in the long run because he’s a young kid who can likely develop into an even stronger player in Pittsburgh’s system. But I’m also a huge fan of Neal and Pony is a pretty solid player as well.
Whitney. Meh. Still not sold.
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Yea Im praying for James Neal, but with Benn you get a similar type player and hes has 2 more years on his entry team which would be attractive to a cap tight team like the pens. However Benn i dont think has the same potential has Neal does.
I really think the Kovy deal yesterday raised the price on Ray Whitney out of the Penguins league for a rental player.
I love Letang and hes going to be a superstar, but Im sorry if you can get Neal for him, I would do it.
I just dont know what Neals going to be looking for contract wise next year.
I need to calm down im excited about the thought of getting Neal.
by genomachine-O on Feb 5, 2010 8:28 AM EST up reply actions
I think getting James Neal is a pipe dream. I don’t know who we would give up other than Letang. They aren’t going to take Goligoski for James Neal. 30-40 goal wingers don’t just grow on trees (ask GMRS).
Benn would be great to pick up. I think trading Goligoski for Benn (and maybe something small) is more likely. Unfortunately, the Pens are built to win now, and it’s hard to say when Benn will be an effective scoring winger.
Obviously, I’d love to have Whitney, but we’ll see what it takes to get him. Ponikarovsky can look lazy, but he has been a plus-player for the past three years on bad Maple Leaf teams. I also heard (per McKenzie), that Toronto expects no worse than a 2nd for Poni. Maybe our 2nd round pick and a prospect for Poni?
It’s not like the Pens do anything with their 2nd round picks anyways.
agreed
getting James Neal seems quite unrealistic… I’m also not sold on Benn. If a team is missing the playoffs one year I don’t think it’ll look to trade some of it’s best young players.
Therefore I think Ponikarovsky is the best option out of these 4… we don’t have to give so much away to get him and if he is a good fit a new contract can be negotiated, if not then it’s a pure rental deal.
You have to see it for yourself...
There’s some solid options here. I think the only answer as to what Shero might do will be in terms of whether he is looking for a short term fix or a long term fix.
Of the options listed above, there’s only Benn who you can get at a good price for a number of seasons. The other three are potentially very short term fixes.
For me, I’d go with Ponikarovsky based on the idea that he would be playing on the second line with Feds and Geno. He’s got experience, a 20+ goal scorer, a manageable cap hit, and he’s a +4 on a team that’s -45 on the season!
Any chance Kulemin could be an option as well?
My main problem with these deals is that I’d hate to see Letang or Goligoski leave. Isn’t Gonchar a UFA at the end of this season as well? Could the Pens afford to potentially lose two puck moving defensemen? I think whatever deal does get done will probably involve more than just a couple of players though.
by crosby_in_sydney on Feb 5, 2010 8:50 AM EST reply actions
Gogo for Neil and a pick or
Talbot and a pick for Poni? (hate to move Talbot, but doubt they’d take CFA or Goddard)
Pens don’t have the cap room for 3.5M unless they move Kunitz, and I just don’t see that happening. Sonic is a beast and should play out his contract by Sid. He brings the hammer, which is something the Pens were sorely lacking at this time last year.
Not only would the Stars not trade James Neal and a pick for Gogo, I doubt they would do James Neal for Gogo and a pick.
James Neal was on a 40 goal pace, and he’ll probably end up with at least 30. And he is young and tough. His value is higher than Gogo’s, and probably Letang’s.
Yea Benn is a more realistic option. Im just dreaming about Neal playing with Geno or Sid/
by genomachine-O on Feb 5, 2010 10:16 AM EST up reply actions
wholeheartedly agree
why would the Stars do that? Neal is an absolute gem, and while GoGo can be as well, Neal’s type is much harder to come by. I don’t see any reason the Stars would trade Neal or Benn honestly. He’s their best goalscoring prospect. He’s going to get much better, it would be idiotic to trade him now. Ponikarovsky and Whitney are a different animal, and these are the types of players that are more likely to be moved. Both would probably require our first round pick + a little something extra. IMO
Some thoughts...
Neal would be a beast on the Pens and would instantly warrant a place in front of the net on the PP. While I would love to see it, 30 goal wingers don’t come cheap (or stay cheap) and we don’t have a lot of cash to work with.
Benn isn’t going anywhere. Could develop into a 30 goal guy and for $822k/per it would be crazy to trade him knowing you are losing Neal over the summer.
Ponikarovsky is a good choice, but again we have cap issues.
Whitney is rental only and will not be the cog that takes over the top. Why waste time with this type of trade. Our core is solid for the next 4 years. Why bring in “pure” rentals?
Umberger has been shot down a bunch of times for his price tag alone.
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I’m against Whitney, I think rental players are a bandaid and don’t lead to long term success (Hossa). I’m not a fan of shopping Letang, but he’s an attractive player to a lot of teams looking for a young D with plenty of upside. Loveyjoy can come up full time, and engelland is still sitting in the wings. Weather you want to go into the playoffs with those two as full-time D men is another question.
BRENT
I would trade Gogo, but not Tanger. That being said, we are all forgetting about Lovejoy in the minors. He will be a very capable replacement and fit in as a top 6 defensemen.
I know Lovejoy isn’t an “offensive” defensemen like Gogo, but he moves the puck very well and good things happen when he is on the ice.
Gogo/Dupuis/draft pick for Neal
WE ARE.......PENN STATE!
Agree with the gogo not tanger for trade bait. I just think Tanger is gonna keep getting better and better, and while gogo is a beast, I think letang will be the better of the two in his own end for a long time.
I doubt we’d have to give up a young D, a winger and a pick to get Neal, he’s not signed past this season and is really cheap. Besides, Dupuis is one of our more consistent wingers. I’d say Feds is the only winger we can spare and only for someone even more clutch than he is in the playoffs, which we won’t get for him.
The only reason I was thinking Letang is because he is going to cost the Pens a lot more that Gogo does. Letang has a bigger upside.
But what would have a bigger impact for the pens right now putting a 25 goal guy on Genos wing or putting Lovejoy in for Gogo or Letang. The bigger impact I think would be a legit winger for Geno. They would get more production out of that . Lovejoy playing for Gogo or Letang wouldnt be a drop off at this point. If a few years maybe…but time is ticking on the window the pens have.
I disagree about Letang having more upside than GoGo. GoGo has a willingness to shoot that Letang may never develop, thus limiting his point production. Plus GoGo is signed to a very reasonable contract, while Letang will be looking at 3-4 mil per year. I think he’s worth that by the way.
How can you tell if a player is going to have a williness to shoot in the future? Hes averaging more shot per game than anyone on the team over the last few weeks. if Letang doesnt have a bigger upside then why are you ok with him getting 3-4 million a year?
by genomachine-O on Feb 5, 2010 12:03 PM EST up reply actions
Personally, I’m not as worried about our forward ranks—I have enough faith in them to perform when the time comes. Not to mention the fact that we’ve got guys like Nick Johnson, Mark Letestu, and Chris Conner to lean on if we get into trouble. I’d much rather see us pick up a responsibly defensive defenseman, much like we did two years ago when we picked up Gill. Someone like Steve Staios would be cool. I see us playing 11 forwards and 7 defensemen, as Sid, Geno, and Gronk take enough minutes for four centers as it is, so one more reliable stay at home defenseman would make me happy. I don’t think it’s a necessity, but if GMRS was to do something, this is what I’d like to see him do.
by Hatt the Moople on Feb 5, 2010 10:24 AM EST reply actions
If GMRS had to get either a winger or a defenseman, I would want the D-man.
About a month ago, when the Pens D were in the midst of their horrendous slump, I said I wanted the Pens to get Dan Hamhuis. That still hasn’t changed for me.
Insidepittsburghsports.com is reporting that the Pens are expressing interest in him. I would love to pick him up and sign him to a contract.
GOGO NOOO!
Love Gogo and Letang, but the Pens need a a bit of help and James Neal seems to fit the bill.
I say sacrifice Letang. He’s expendable in my mind, especially if he still thinks he’s worth $4 mill next yr. No way he gets that. And if the Pens give it to him they’re overpaying.
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Yea if the pens are trying to sign Gonchar and Letang for next year that gives us 1 more puck moving defenseman than we need. I count Lovejoy in there as well. He’s not the offensive threat of a Gonchar, but he certainly could be considered a puck mover.
by genomachine-O on Feb 5, 2010 12:50 PM EST up reply actions
First off
Hooks, another great post brother keep it up; I always enjoy reading your posts.
I would say our best bet would be either with Carolina because of the gift we gave them in the Rechhin ball back when they won their cup, maybe they can repay the favor.
I would love either of the two wingers in Dallas. Giving up GOGO or Tanger is a huge loss, but we do have some mighty good defensive prospects coming through our system. If we get rid of Tanger almost definitely means we can sign Gonch.
We give up Tanger too we may be able to get a little bit more out of them.
I look at it as we give up a great talent, for a great talent that can help us put points up like Washington.
The only thing I’ll say is that I hope Ray Shero isn’t freaking out at this like we are and makes a rational decision.
Yeah, no doubt. In Shero I trust, and all that.
I think people around here are getting a little too freaked out. Yeah, it’s Kovalchuk to the Devils, and we haven’t beaten them yet this year, but it’s not the end of the world. We’re still one of the best teams in the league, one that only needs a minor tweak here and there(which Shero excells at). No reason to spite the forest for the trees here.
by SlayerGhaleon on Feb 5, 2010 5:13 PM EST up reply actions
Personally I would strike both Stars players form this conversation. The Stars possible sale would mean that they would want to shed salary not give up valuable and cheap assets. The Stars are not making it to the Finals this year with how stacked the West is, so why would they mortgage their future for this year?
That depends on how bad Dallas wants a puck moving defenseman. Its not really mortgaging the future if they were to aquire a young defenseman. Its probably not going to happen, but its fun to speculate anyway.
by genomachine-O on Feb 5, 2010 12:06 PM EST up reply actions
Would someone please take Eaton for a bag of pucks….As for the discussion above, most want something for nothing, there are major needs on the Penguin team and they don’t come cheap. Letang and his future salary goes [power scoring forward comes in], Gogo, Lovejoy [NY fans love this kid], and Gonch sure up the puck carrying defenseman the rest of the year. Gonch takes $3.5, he stays, if not cya, it’s been nice and FA here we come. I can assure you in the coming week [s] we will see one of our wingers, a WB/S prospect and a draft choice go and in return a physical [ not a 5’10" type, if you get my drift] stay at home defenseman arrives.
I can’t stand Eaton either. Though I think considering our injury bug this year we should try and get a hot tub or a couple ice packs for him instead.
A bee in a bird's nest never made no honey, and a bird in a hive sang no song.
You can’t have 6 allstar defenseman. For 2 million Eaton is about the best your going to get. Unless you draft and develop someone.
by genomachine-O on Feb 5, 2010 12:53 PM EST up reply actions
Hatt the Moople is right. We have some really good young players in WB/S that I think could definitely make an impact for us. Plus, you never know what kind of magic they could come out with in the post season. An example would be Justin Abdelkader in Detroit. In the finals he blew up in the first few games. Plus don’t forget we’ll have Kunitiz coming back, which can move Dupuis, who has been playing the first and second line, around even more.
I still think a D-man should be our first priority. But that does not mean giving up Letang or GoGo. I think they are still too young and like others have said, they haven’t really reached their full stride yet.
A bee in a bird's nest never made no honey, and a bird in a hive sang no song.
Don't we already have Benn in W-B?
I think his name is Luca Caputi.
"Never mistake motion for action." - Ernest Hemingway
Im a big Caputi fan, but no. Benns played a half a season in the NHL already. Caputi hasnt made it 2 weeks.
by genomachine-O on Feb 5, 2010 12:52 PM EST up reply actions
I was just thinking about the style of player
and projecting that into the future.
"Never mistake motion for action." - Ernest Hemingway
Yea i guess their similar, but Caputi is not helping us now Benn could.
by genomachine-O on Feb 5, 2010 2:18 PM EST up reply actions
Eaton worth Two million, he’s not worth 2 bits. Forcing passes when pressured, gets beat up in the crease [i.e. clears no one in front ] and in the corners..most of the time he ends up with snow on the back of his pants, can’t cover one on one for crap and continuely gets beat. Who can tell me he’s worth 2 Mil?? Big deal, he takes a slapper when he is wide open. That’s worth 2 Mil??
You have to be thinking of Skoula. Eaton has not been that bad. Hes not flashy, when hes playing his best you dont notice him. Thats the way he is, I dont see Eaton getting beat one on one very much. Look around the league and find me a defenseman that make 2 million that would be that much better.
by genomachine-O on Feb 5, 2010 2:11 PM EST up reply actions
I think Eaton’s been a little shaky lately, but I wouldn’t be as harsh as the OP was.
Eaton’s contract is hardly the worst one on the team relative to his contributions, and it expires after this season, so it’s really not a big deal to me.
"I'm glad I got drafted first, because no one remembers number two." -- Alexandre Daigle
Yea if hes worried about Eatons contract I’d love to hear what he thinks about Kunitz…..
by genomachine-O on Feb 5, 2010 2:51 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t think finding an upgrade on the wing for Geno or Crosby in the penguins price range is an option right now, but there are some minor tweaks they can make to improve the team.
First, they need to either a) trade Skoula, or b) put Skoula on waivers to make cap space. The same could probably be done with Godard (not much need for Godard, and besides, Mike Rupp can fight (sorta) if he has to).
The pens need a better 4th line center (one that can win faceoffs) and a 7th DD. Atlanta would be a good place to get these now that they are rebuilding….again. Jim Slatter has a great FO% and Mark Popovic has been strong with 32 blocked shots and 21 hits in 18 games. Both are defensively responsible (each are only -3 on the Trashers). The pens could probably get these two for a combination of low draft picks and maybe prospects. Both teams win as Atlanta rebuilds and the Pens gain depth and defence for the playoffs. The salaries of these two are also within the budget, so that works out as well.
And because I know someone will mention this, Lovejoy and Letestu are decent as well, but I think Letestu could use the rest of the year to develop and Lovejoy needs more ice time then a 7th D would get. Let him come up next year if the pens get rid of Eaton.
that was well thought out, but I wouldn’t trade anything for Popovic when we have Lovejoy waiting in the wings. What’s the point of the 7th defensman? if one of the top 6 get injured, just get Lovejoy in there from WBS. Skoula is a fine healthy scratch guy. I guess what i’m saying is I’d rather have Lovejoy than Popovic if one has to play. Jim Slater had a great game vs us this year, but other than that…he’s nothing special. I’d rather have Talbot playing that role once he’s finally healthy. Ideally we would trade Kunitz/Dupuis(bad) & pick(good) to Carolina (even though they want no salary coming back….good luck with that) for Whitney. Replace Eaton with Lovejoy and enjoy the ride.
Our centers (except Crosby) aren’t exactly excelling at faceoffs, and Talbot sucks at faceoffs; I’d rather see him on a wing. Thats why I suggested Slater, he’s great in the faceoff circle, he’s on a team that is going to be rebuilding, and he isn’t special, which means he’ll be cheap.
You have a point about bringing up Lovejoy except he doesn’t practice with the team regularly as a callup, which puts him at a disadvantage. I would rather see Lovejoy replace a top six D next year and get a rental player for the 7th this year.
It doesn’t need to be Popovic, he was just my first pick of their defensemen, and it certainly doesn’t have to be Atlanta, I just thought they would be looking to sell.
I don’t think we’ll be trading Kunitz because of injury problems and high salary, and I like Dupuis’ play this year(although, I’m not sure he’s first/second line material). If the pens put too much into a trade to get someone like Whitney, it would poke too many holes in their depth and end up hurting them.
One thing we can agree on: Skoula sucks and we won’t be able to trade him, but waivers is a nice option.
i think it might be time to just to just wait if the only way to get a wing is to trade gogo or letang. i really want to see how tangradi develops, he might be ready to go next season.
looking at his stats and from what i’ve heard from an interview with the wbs beat writer Tangradi is not looking like an option for next year. Not to start the season anyway.
by genomachine-O on Feb 8, 2010 8:50 AM EST up reply actions
Can the Pens really afford to give up GoGo or Letang for a winger with Gonchar potentially leaving at the end of this season? Getting rid of either of those two guys only ups Gonchars value to the team.
by crosby_in_sydney on Feb 6, 2010 2:01 AM EST reply actions
Letang may leave after this season too. I don’t think GoGo is going anywhere, given the fact that they locked him up before the season even started. He and Orpik will be the only two d-men guaranteed to be on board next season.
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I think Shero is going to try his best over the Olympics to get a deal done for Gonch and/or Letang. That would probably make his life a lot easier come deadline time having a little better idea of whats his d will look like next year.
by genomachine-O on Feb 8, 2010 8:56 AM EST up reply actions
Proposal
Letang + Dups + Adams for Neal + Niskanen + late round pick
by stoopidtom on Feb 6, 2010 6:11 PM EST via mobile reply actions
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