List of players with a 50+ goal season and an 80+ assist seasons (Sid to join?)
by PensFan8725 on Mar 10, 2010 6:38 PM EST
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PrintI know he hasn't scored 50 goals yet, but it sure seems like Sid Crosby is going to become a 50 goal scorer in the coming weeks (how many of you would've laughed if that had been predicted in the preseason?). While that would be a nice accomplishment to an already big resume, the fact that he's had an 80+ assist season (in 06-07) is a pretty big accomplishment as well because it shows just how versatile he's become. What I'm wondering is how many players have had a 50+ goal season and an 80+ assist season (not necessarily in the same season)? Obviously, Mario and Gretz would be on that list as they've done it in the same season, but who else (Jagr, Messier?)? I bet that list isn't even in double digits.
Does anyone know how I can find this out?
EDIT: With a lot of help from PensAreYourDaddy, I've come up with this list with the player's all time points ranking and the year they first accomplished 50+ goals & 80+ assists (whichever came last):
1. Wayne Gretzky (79-80)
2. Mark Messier (89-90)
5. Marcel Dionne (79-80)
6. Steve Yzerman (88-89)
7. Mario Lemieux (86-87)
9. Jaromir Jagr (00-01)
15. Bryan Trottier (81-82)
18. Dale Hawerchuk (92-93)
24. Guy Lafleur (76-77)
51. Mike Bossy (81-82)
71. Pat Lafontaine (92-93)
Sid would be the 12th player on this list, and he'd be the first to do it since Jagr in 2001. It should be noted that every one of these players has over 1,000 career points and only Lafontaine and Bossy have less than 1,350; all but Jagr (as his NHL career only ended 2 seasons ago and he's still playing in the KHL) are in the Hall of Fame.
Pretty damn good company if you ask me.
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I guess you could compare the lists and find the players on both. Unfortunately, these are only top 50 so they don’t have everyone.
by PensAreYourDaddy on Mar 10, 2010 6:45 PM EST reply actions
I come up with the following:
Gretz, Mario, Jags, Stevie Y, Bossy and Marcel Dionne.
Sid and Ovie sure to join this year.
by PensAreYourDaddy on Mar 10, 2010 6:52 PM EST up reply actions
Plus whoever else didn’t get picked up because they aren’t top 50 all-time in either goals or assists.
by PensAreYourDaddy on Mar 10, 2010 6:53 PM EST up reply actions
You know what, I think I should just look through the list of 50 goal scorers and look at each of their stats to see if they’ve ever had more than 80 assists.
Ovi’s not going to have 80 assists this year and he hasn’t ever had an 80 assist season, so it’s just Sid for now.
871
Doh!!!
Yes, I momentarily got the numbers confused in my head. He will hit 50 assists this year…not 80. Oops. I never thought I’d find myself in the position of giving him more credit than he deserves.
by PensAreYourDaddy on Mar 10, 2010 7:08 PM EST up reply actions
You’re welcome. That site also lists players who have had 50 goal seasons. Based on that, add Lafontaine and Trottier to the group.
by PensAreYourDaddy on Mar 10, 2010 7:06 PM EST up reply actions
Great list and good fanpost, guys.
IMO there’s no doubt Crosby has the skill to be 50g, 80a in a season, but a big deal is teammates. Look at Jagr who had guys like Lemieux, Kovalev, Straka and Lang with him..Back in the more free-wheeling days maybe guys could do it by themselves but
Malkin is the only 30+ goal scorer the Pens will likely have next season (maybe Staal) and Crosby doesn’t get much time with them at even-strength. PP points are crucial but to get to 80 assists you have to have teammates converting to get the tough task of an assist per game.
Wayne Gretzky had it wrong: 100% of the shots Gary Roberts doesn't take DO go in.
I think you misunderstood what the list is, Hooks. The list is of players that have had seperate 50 goal seasons and 80 assist seasons, but it also includes players that have done it in the same season. Like Hawerchuck had a 50 goal season and, towards the end of his career, had an 80 assist season; he never had 50+ goals and 80 assists in the same season. Hawerchuk, Messier, and Trottier are the only players on the list not to have 50+ G and 80+ assists in the same season. I realize that putting Sid in the same class as some of these players is debatable, (I personally think he’ll have a hard time cracking the top 10, and maybe even top 20, all time scorers while playing the “new” NHL) but the fact that this list is only 10 guys deep even when it includes 50 and 80 in seperate seasons is amazing. Sid just needs six more goals to join them.
If I had been talking about 50 and 80 in the same season I would’ve had to include OV and Geno too. I would say that Sid or Malkin have the best chance to do this in the same season, even though OV has better linemates, because sometimes it seems OV only passes when he absolutely has to (he’s gotten better at passing, but it’s more of a result of having a great PP and pretty good finishers for linemates than anything).
871
I did fail to understand what your club was, my apologies for the poor reading.
Wayne Gretzky had it wrong: 100% of the shots Gary Roberts doesn't take DO go in.
by Hooks Orpik on Mar 11, 2010 11:11 AM EST up reply actions
The list of 50+ G and 80+ A in the same season:
Mike Bossy (64G 83A in 1981-1982)
Marcel Dionne (53G 84A in 1979-1980)
Wayne Gretzky (9 times!)
Jaromir Jagr (62G 87A in 1995-1996)
Pat LaFontaine (53G 95A in 1992-1993)
Guy Lafleur (56G 80A in 1976-1977)
Mario Lemieux (4 times)
Bernie Nicholls (70G 80A in 1988-1989)
Steve Yzerman (65G 90A in 1988-1989)
Two sets of teammates have done it the same year: Lemieux (69G 92A) with Jagr, and Gretzky (54G 114A) with Nicholls.
"PensBurgh":http://www.pensburgh.com/
Messier, Trottier, and Hawerchuk never did it in the same season.
"PensBurgh":http://www.pensburgh.com/
Yeah, I posted that above. I was really surprised that Messier hasn’t done it in the same season, despite being #2 on the all time scoring list.
I was still kind of surprised that the list was still only 10 guys even when you included them in seperate seasons, just goes to show you what a versatile player Sid is.
871
I just looked up 50G and 100A for fun, and Gretzky did that 8 times, Lemieux once, and that’s it. Amazing.
Yeah, when you look at Gretzky’s numbers it almost fails to register how far out in front of everyone he was. Consistently too, year in year out just points on top of points
Wayne Gretzky had it wrong: 100% of the shots Gary Roberts doesn't take DO go in.
by Hooks Orpik on Mar 11, 2010 11:12 AM EST up reply actions
Let me ask everyone something. Would you all consider Wayne Gretzky the best hockey player ever? I’ve got a couple friends who were trying to tell me Ov and Sid are better then him, and there reasoning was that when Gretzky played the goalies were basically terrible because of the stand up rules. I didn’t ever really buy into this just cause if that was the case then why weren’t other players putting up ridiculous numbers like Gretzky and winning a bunch of Cups but I didn’t really start watching hockey until a year or two ago, so I guess I feel like I can’t be certain of it. Anyone care to chime in?
by packallday555 on Mar 11, 2010 12:00 PM EST up reply actions
I didn’t ever really buy into this just cause if that was the case then why weren’t other players putting up ridiculous numbers like Gretzky
I’d have to agree. A lot of guys were putting up big numbers, but no one came close to Wayner.
No doubt that Ovechkin and Crosby have harder shots, but they also have lightweight one-piece composite sticks, whereas back in the day it was just heavy wood sticks. It’s tough to compare eras, as everything changes, but overall I think you’d have to rank Gretzky #1.
IMO Lemieux had just as much talent, but early in his career he wasn’t as focused as Wayne (didn’t train, smoked cigarettes, didn’t diet, etc). Then you factor in all the injuries/illnesses Mario trudged through and there’s always the question “what could have been?”. Well “what could have been” was how it was for Gretzky, piling up all those awards, records and achievements.
I think the only people that would argue Crosby and Ovechkin are better than Gretzky are people who never have really watched Gretzky play, outside of maybe a couple highlight clips here and there.
Factor in the bigger implications of how Gretzky gave a shot in the arm to LA (and really opened the door for the whole Southern expansion) and it’s clear that no one else is going to be called The Great One.
Wayne Gretzky had it wrong: 100% of the shots Gary Roberts doesn't take DO go in.
by Hooks Orpik on Mar 11, 2010 12:21 PM EST up reply actions
The holy trinity of amazing hockey players is Wayne, Mario and Bobby. No one else currently playing, not even Sid or Ovie, is going to crack that group.
Both of those two have a legitimate shot at unseating whoever you pick at number four, though. They really are marvelous talents.
Only YOU can prevent idiots from commenting!
by Knee high to a duck on Mar 13, 2010 4:06 PM EST up reply actions
Gretz stands alone. No one saw the ice like that guy did; when you see highlights, its like he knew what everyone was going to do before they did it. Like everyone else was playing slower than he was, even though he wasn’t the fastest guy out there. I think also Gretzky’s physical tools were so much more limited than Ovie or Sid or Mario (size, strength, etc) and it’s really no contest. Seeing that guy play hockey was like a religious experience.
We do not live to be able to eat and make money. We eat and make money to be able to enjoy life. That is what life means and that is what it is for.
--George Leigh Mallory
Thanks for the opinions guys! I never watched the Gretzky aside from some highlights I’ve found, and his talent is blatantly obvious. Of course that is what a highlight type is designed to do haha but when watching him everything just looked so simple for him.
A guy that I have always been really impressed with is Jagr. I remember watching him when I was younger, and have looked at some highlights of him and the things the guy did were amazing. I don’t think think I’ve ever seen any other player just simply go around people the way Jagr did. His stick handles were just absolutely ridiculous.
by packallday555 on Mar 11, 2010 11:58 PM EST up reply actions
No question Gretzky is nymber one, but the player who stands out in my memory is also Jagr. Basically he’s the player that made me a hockey fan and a Penguins fan.
Of course this has to do with the fact that I was never able to witness Gretzky or Lemieux in their prime.
You have to see it for yourself...
I can’t dispute Gretzky as number one – he had the skills, the Cups and all the records.
However, it makes me wonder. If we could do an all-time draft, with all players being in their prime and no injuries, I can’t imagine passing over Mario with the number 1 pick. All I have to do is look at my “5 goals 5 ways” profile image to remember how amazing he was.
I respect Gretzy tremendously, and on a team full of hall of famers, he might be the best pick, but I would have to go with Mario’s deadly combination of dominating size and skill.
by PensAreYourDaddy on Mar 12, 2010 10:33 AM EST up reply actions
Not even a question
In an all time draft you take Gretzky over Mario simply because you can’t be sure Mario is going to stay healthy or stay focused on winning.
by catesinator on Mar 16, 2010 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions
It’s easy enough to do. That guy burned as bright as anyone but just fell off the face of the earth.
Gretz, Mario, Jags, Stevie Y, Bossy and Marcel Dionne.
I found Bossy pretty early on…..couldn’t forget about that guy.
by PensAreYourDaddy on Mar 11, 2010 5:59 PM EST up reply actions
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