Who sits?
by Hooks Orpik on Mar 5, 2010 12:05 PM EST
37 comments
Alexei Ponikarovsky has his visa issues cleared up and is expected to be in the lineup tomorrow when the Penguins play the Dallas Stars. Veteran Bill Guerin missed the game with minor back spasms and his status is unknown, but it doesn't seem like a long-term injury. Which means the Pittsburgh Penguins face the prospect of having a forward that dressed last night becoming a spectator in the very near future.
It's a good problem to have: too many players that are playing well and only a finite number of jerseys to hand out. But a good problem is still a problem. Injuries or ineffectiveness could change the story in a heartbeat, but for now let's look at the candidates to become healthy scratches.
Pros of scratching him: 0 goals, doesn't win many faceoffs (42.7%)
Cons of scratching him: Only right handed faceoff man, does good work on the PK, is a good, physical forechecker
Pros of scratching him: Dreadful season hampered by injuries, not scoring, not winning faceoffs and not really standing out for good reasons
Cons of scratching him: Because just maybe it's a bad idea to scratch the guy who scored the team's only Game 7 Stanley Cup Finals goals.
Pros of scratching him: Can have a better skating 4th line without him
Cons of scratching him: Lose a lot of size, toughness and pseudo-enforcer, not to mention a goal scoring touch that can't be ignored
Pros of scratching him: Other players have worked harder and produced more than the guy who's been on Malkin's line nearly all season long
Cons of scratching him: The All-European connection could be huge with Ponikarovsky and Evgeni Malkin. Plus he's playing well in the brief time after the Olympic break (3 points in 2 games)
Pros of scratching him: Doesn't take faceoffs, unlike some other guys
Cons of scratching him: Arguably has been the best forward not named Crosby, Malkin or Staal the past couple weeks. He's producing (5g, 7a in last 18 games), he's killing penalties, providing effort, taking shots, throwing hits
Which one player will get the tough news that they're out (for the time being, at least)? None of them really should be pulled out of the lineup, but it's looking like some good players are getting lessened roles as the team adds improved skill.
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I’d sit Adams. He’s not winning faceoffs and even though he’s decent at playing physical, forechecking and PK’ing the Pens have plenty of guys who can fill the same role.
Since Adams is the only righthanded center I’m worried that keeps him in the lineup. But if you don’t win many draws, what’s the good of having him in there?
Gotta round Talbot back into shape. That’s one of the big priorities right now is getting him back in the groove.
Wayne Gretzky had it wrong: 100% of the shots Gary Roberts doesn't take DO go in.
I was almost going to say Max, but you make a great point—Max needs the time if he’s going to get back to where he was last season. Maybe he and Adams should trade off? I don’t think there’s anyone else on the team I would sit; it has to be one of those two.
by Hatt the Moople on Mar 5, 2010 12:23 PM EST up reply actions
But did we miss him.
Obviously the team didn’t miss him much (they won and scored 5 goals) but Guerin’s absence over a long stretch would be a different story.
Wayne Gretzky had it wrong: 100% of the shots Gary Roberts doesn't take DO go in.
Nah, can’t say I did. The PP looked stellar. The top line played well. It’s possible to get by without him. But I will admit, come playoff time I’d like to see him back in the lineup.
Follow the Penguins on SBN @ Pensburgh.com and twitter.
You missed the obvious choice
What about TK?
I don’t think that’s either obvious or a choice at this point.
Wayne Gretzky had it wrong: 100% of the shots Gary Roberts doesn't take DO go in.
I must disagree
Tk has been a liability on alot of nights. I don’t know why everyone thinks that the sesame street line can’t be touched. I must reiterate that TK would be my choice to sit out.
I don’t sit TK for the same reason I sit Adams instead of Max. Speed is the name of the game and Talbot can bring the wheels. TK is a gritty, fast skater as well. So of the aforementioned players in this post, my pick is Adams.
Follow the Penguins on SBN @ Pensburgh.com and twitter.
Sesame Street Line? Is that what they are called? Why is that, I no longer live in the ’Burgh, so I am out of the loop.
Life is about one simple choice, get busy living or get busy dying
Cookie Monster (Cooke), Big BIrd (Staal) and I dont even know which one the hell TK is supposed to be
Wayne Gretzky had it wrong: 100% of the shots Gary Roberts doesn't take DO go in.
Definitely not. He is a fast, gritty guy who can make things happen when crashing the net.
by packallday555 on Mar 5, 2010 12:43 PM EST up reply actions
Fedotenko
If the guy isn’t on one of the top 2 lines he’s wasted as a 4th liner. The guy is also a -14 despite playing on Malkin’s line all season.
Now if they are going to team him up with Malkin and Ponik then yeah either Adams or Talbot should sit.
He will remain with Malkin though simply because of Poni being brought in. Tank has been obnoxiously inconsistent this year with his game, so this better snap him out of it.
by lostprophetRJX on Mar 5, 2010 12:33 PM EST up reply actions
Plus coaches never like making higher salary players healthy scratches unless they are reaaally sucking (i.e. Wade Redden).
by lostprophetRJX on Mar 5, 2010 12:34 PM EST up reply actions
coaches hate it or their bosses hate it?
Life is about one simple choice, get busy living or get busy dying
I don’t think that’s a big consideration for Fedotenko.
First of all, he’s not making a lot, relatively speaking, second of all the best players are going to play. If he fits that mold, fine, if a guy doesn’t, he shouldn’t be playing, and won’t under Bylsma. No matter what the paycheck says
Wayne Gretzky had it wrong: 100% of the shots Gary Roberts doesn't take DO go in.
Which is the way it should be. If you’re not performing to what you can, let alone what’s expected of you, you should sit even if your making a $10mil paycheck. I was watching NHL Powerplay one day though and a Ranger fan called and talked about either sitting or sending guys down to the AHL and they made a completely understandable point that some coaches and GMs won’t do it because it makes them look bad as well.
by lostprophetRJX on Mar 5, 2010 1:13 PM EST up reply actions
But you’re right, Feds wouldn’t be as big of a deal as say a $4mil+ top six winger.
by lostprophetRJX on Mar 5, 2010 1:14 PM EST up reply actions
TK – no way! He is the spark-plug of the best 3rd line in professional hockey. Sure he is struggling to do what he needs to do, dump and chase, but with actual competition on the roster now I reckon coach’s words will sink in more now. If he doesn’t change though, Dupuis would fit that niche nicely.
Talbot – no way! Being a hockey player who has also recovered from shoulder surgery I will be the first to tell you that it does take time to get better. I am not sure what type he had but I know it took me nearly 18 months to feel “better-better”, not just good enough to be out there. Talbot is a bad-ass pro so I don’t see it taking 18 months, but what he needs now is minutes to get that timing, strength, and confidence back. The Pens need Talbot. Ask yourself what were defining moment of last year’s playoffs. Philly- the Talbot fight, Caps-game 7 breakaway save vs. Ovie, Canes-Malkin’s play, Detriot-Talbot’s 2 goals in game 7. Notice a trend?
Rupp- no way! Big man who can skate, score, and send a message. Duh! Unlike Godard, Rupp can play playoff minutes for this team.
Dupuis – no way! He has been the Pens 4th best forward all year. Outside of the big 3 who has played better night in, nigh out.
Adams – OK! A right-handed face-off specialist who never wins face-offs and does what several other forwards can do only not as well. Duh! It’s kinda obvious at this point.
Tenks – maybe? 9 goals, 25 points, and -14 playing as a top 6 forward with Malkin. That is unacceptable. If he doesn’t click right away with Malkin and Poni then I say Tenks sits in the press box.
Life is about one simple choice, get busy living or get busy dying
I think it’s Adams for sure. No way we should sit Dupis. He has actually been pretty good this year. He is fast, physical, and a decent finisher. No way we should sit Rupp. He’s a big guy with a lot of size, and is actually a pretty good finisher. I actually liked seeing him out there with Crosby as his big body was able to take some pressure of Crosby, as well as winning some battles along the boards. Feds is more questionable. He has a pretty nice shot but sometimes he just disappears. I think he-Malkin-Poni could have some magic together though. Talbot is probably the guy who should switch off sitting with Adams. He has been good in the past, and I like the grit he brings out there but he just hasn’t been cutting it.
I think we should have a bit of a rotation between Adams and Talbot. Though is should work something like Adams sits 3-5 games then Talbot sits 1 game. The only thing Adams really does well is kill penalties but I’m sure a guy like Talbot, Dupuis, or Crosby could replace him and be just as effective if not better.
Probably comes down to Adams or Talbot
Of the two, Talbot has the higher upside – Adams has been more consistent. You use the rest of the regular season to try to bring Talbot up to speed (seeing as how the payoff is greater) while mixing in Adams (have Rupp sit occasionally, even give Billy G some rest for the playoffs) to keep Adams sharp. If Talbot is still playing poorly, than Talbot sits for the playoffs.
they’ve both been bad this year. Consistency is not good when you consitently suck at faceoffs and don’t provide any offense and aren’t on a shutdown line either. For me it has to be Adams, but I wouldn’t be opposed to Talbot, Rupp, whoever else is struggling or use it to give Crosby and Malkin some days off. It’s not a bad problem to have. Looking forward to seeing Poni with Malkin.
I’m pretty surprised Dupuis was even listed.
My vote would be to sit Adams – I think. How much does having a right-handed faceoff guy really help you when he’s only winning 40% of those draws? As far as his PKing, you’ve got Staal and Cooke for one line, then Dupuis and any one of Talbot/TK/Rupp for the 2nd PK unit.
I think back to how good the 2nd line was for stretches last year with Geno, Sykora, and Tenks, just don’t know that you can sit him yet.
Avalanche fan stuck in Penguin territory.
I almost didn’t list Dupuis, but he was a healthy scratch for a couple of playoff games last season, so if he was seen as the 11/12th forward on the team then, it’s realistic to think he’s a possibility to be scratched now.
Wayne Gretzky had it wrong: 100% of the shots Gary Roberts doesn't take DO go in.
Adams
I’d sit Adams at first, the guys a vet, he won’t have any problems sitting out for a while. Let him rest up a bit. Once Poni gets several games under him, then I would start resting guys on a rotation until injury negates this problem
I almost didn’t list Dupuis, but he was a healthy scratch for a couple of playoff games last season, so if he was seen as the 11/12th forward on the team then, it’s realistic to think he’s a possibility to be scratched now.
Wayne Gretzky had it wrong: 100% of the shots Gary Roberts doesn't take DO go in.
According to my math, we have 18 games over the next 36 days. Seems like we should be able to rest just about anybody at this point without it being taken as a comment about the way they are playing or their relative importance to the team.
Maybe we should start with Guerin if he is still having issues with back spasms.
by PensAreYourDaddy on Mar 5, 2010 2:51 PM EST reply actions
Could be I missed the whole point about not taking injuries into account in this discussion.
Rotate through the entire 4th line. I agree that Max needs to get back into the swing of things, but he may also need a break here and there.
by PensAreYourDaddy on Mar 5, 2010 2:55 PM EST up reply actions
Yea, that’s another thing I was thinking of. It’s not necessarily the greatest of ideas, but for some of the guys who need a rest here and there should definitely take advantage of the situation. A) This keeps the critical bottom 6 role players healthy heading into the playoffs. B) You can’t just sit Adams or whoever every game. Cycle people in and out. Offense and defense included. C) Use this advantage as a message sender. If someone is slacking or not playing to what they should cough*Eaton*cough*Gogo*cough then let them know how you feel.
by lostprophetRJX on Mar 5, 2010 3:33 PM EST up reply actions
rotating players too much though messes with chemistry alot! which is always a bad idea, because so much of hockey (and the Pens game even more) is jiving on no look passes, and puck movement. it means a lot when you’re used to a guy playing a certian way. our 4th line is not a goon line we throw out just to rest other players, and hurt people. we put them on the ice to score. granted we don’t expect it as much as we do from the other lines; however we still want them getting pucks in the net occasionally.
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