Matt Cooke hit on Marc Savard: Over the line?
Matt Cooke walks a fine line: his job is to hit, to provide grit and to make it tough on the opponents. Hockey players are ingrained to "finish your check" from the time you start playing, and Cooke did what he's been taught to do and what keeps him employed; he finished his check.
Unfortunately, this time, Cooke's hit to Marc Savard knocked the Boston player out momentarily and gave him a concussion. No one ever likes to see a player hurt and knocked out, but is this a suspendable crime or just a hockey play gone bad?
After the jump, the video, and why the NHL needs to step up and define if a dangerous and high-probability injury play is just an unfortunate occasional byproduct of playing a fast and brutally physical game, or if such hits that end up to the head (whether intended or not) have a place in the game.
(Courtesy of Pensburgh contributor GhostWalker40)
As you can see, Cooke swoops in from the side of Savard and drills him. The arm/shoulder is down but it doesn't appear Cooke was attempting to lead with an elbow. Savard is in a dangerous and vulnerable position since he just played the puck and didn't see Cooke coming, but at the same time, that's a play that Cooke needs to make to check a guy who is playing the puck.
As I mentioned in the game recap, this hit is eerily similiar in circumstance, and unfortunately in result, to an earlier hit this season when Philadelphia's Mike Richards hit Florida's David Booth.
Richards was given a game misconduct on the play, but the NHL chose not to suspend him (emphsais mine):
...there were a number of reasons that led to the decision not to suspend Richards: he did not target Booth's head; he did not leave his feet to deliver the blow; he did not hit an unsuspecting player; he is not a repeat offender; and he did not hit Booth late, as it was determined the blow was delivered less than a half-second after Booth passed the puck.
By those standards: Matt Cooke didn't seem to really target Savard's head anymore than Richards did to Booth. Matt Cooke did not leave his feet and he did lead with his shoulder. Not sure how the league could rule that Booth (or Savard) could NOT be an "unsuspecting player", as neither saw it coming, but both did cut across the middle, make a pass and hang around, which usually does mean you're going to receive some contact at that level. Cooke's hit probably passes the NHL late test as well -- sure it looks bad in slow mo, but watch again at real speed and it's clearly not a truly late hit, even if the puck was played before Cooke got there.
Which leaves one key issue: Cooke is a repeat offender, just this November he was suspended two games for a hit to the head of New York Rangers forward Artem Anisimov. That hit, while similiar, has some key differences: #1 Cooke lines Anisimov up from a longer distance and contacts him further from the play of Cooke/Savard or Richards/Booth. Cooke also leaves his feet and deliberately raises his arm, connecting to the taller player with his elbow.
Cooke's suspension list does not stop there, however: in January 2009 he was suspended 2 games for a hit to the head of then Carolina forward Scott Walker. According to TSN.ca, Cooke also was suspended for 2 games back in 2004, though a quick search didn't hash up the reason (please comment if you remember it).
Now the NHL has a problem: you have a player with a history of walking the fine line between physical and dirty, one who's no saint and has often strayed the line. You also have players being wheeled out of NHL arenas far too commonly due to hits to their head. The NHL has vowed to crack-down on these types of hits, but they let Richards off the hook for supplemental discipline on a similiar play. Cooke wasn't even penalized on the ice for the play, whether that has any bearing on further debate remains to be seen, but it's at least valid that the four officials who saw the play unfold in real time didn't deem this a vicious or clearly intended shot to the head.
Cooke's got to play physical, he's got to finish checks and make opponents play, but he also has to walk the fine line and try not and swoop in and deliver dangerous shots to the head of vulnerable players. They're all peers and a little more respect is needed. It'll be nice if the NHL sends the message that these dangerous hits can not be tolerated, and not just by guys who've done it and been suspended before. It would probably be unfair if Cooke sits for a while when Mike Richards got away with basically the same (if not worse) hit, but discipline has to start somewhere, and unfortunately for Matt Cooke, he might be the guy the NHL makes an example of.
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I thought of the same thing when I saw this hit. And frankly, I thought Richards’ hit on Booth was worthy of suspension, regardless of what many have said and will continue to say about his shoulder. Therefore, in that same light, I really do feel that Cooke is deserving of a suspension for this hit. If anything, he’s already the owner of a reputation that the NHL does not look kindly upon. I’m thinking five or more games for this one, since he has been suspended earlier in the year as well.
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Cooke is going to get a few games for this one. And its well deserved. I hate seeing hits like that no matter who is involved. Since the Olympic break its seems like Campbell is handing out suspensions a little more often. I could see Cooke getting 5 games for that one. I have to say tho Puckdaddy has a whole post dedicated to this say saying that it is nothing like the Richards hit on Booth. Thats B.S. it was the same exact play. Cookes reputation certainly has a negative effect on the situation. You cant let who the player is cloud your judgement like the NHL does. It was the same kind of hit. I thought Richards should have got at least 5 games, Ill say the same for Cooke. Cooke is a decent player when he just plays, I realize his job is to be an agiatator, but I sure would like him a lot more if he stopped doing crap like this.
Cookie is one of my favorite Pens
But this was bad form and he knows it. He needs to be suspended because I really hate to see ANY athlete being taken off the pitch on a stretcher, regardless of the team.
Given his history he will certainly garner a suspension. Five games sounds about right, given that he got 2 in November. Also 5 games means he misses the Boston game, which would help avoid a retaliation hit (at least to Cooke). In reality he should get 4, and then be allowed to face up the Bruins and take what they offer him (hopefully just a fight and then move on). But the league will not allow players to police themselves, and will likely make it five for that specific purpose. I can’t imagine being longer as Cooke clearly didn’t intend to injure, he kept skating, completely unaware of the type of hit he just made.
That is a good point. 4 games and let Cooke come back to play Boston and have to answer the bell with a fight against Shawn Thornton or Milan Lucic.
We all know Cooke much prefers to talk and irriatate rather than drop the gloves, but he definitely owes someone on Boston for this one.
Wayne Gretzky had it wrong: 100% of the shots Gary Roberts doesn't take DO go in.
by Hooks Orpik on Mar 8, 2010 9:45 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
What I don’t agree with is everyone saying you can hand out punishment based on what happened after the hit….
My Question is why?
This is how our Justice (real world) System works now?
The only way to deter the behavior might just be to say…“if you make contact to another players head, at all, and an injury happens because of it, you will get X games suspension” It’s really the only way to police this stuff, no?
Personally I don’t like the hit…was it late…probably not….was it an elbow….not really maybe on follow through…did he leave his feet…no…..will he get a suspension…yes….was it dirty…no. (to be honest he barely made contact with Savard (except it was his head)
The reason I do not like the hit is because to say that a player can’t react in a second to pull up or try avoid another player is BS, IMO. The sport is full of split second decisions and players ducking in and out of traffic at full speed. Cooke most likely could have pulled up or redirected his body.
"Let the Rabbits wear glasses"
What I don’t agree with is everyone saying you can hand out punishment based on what happened after the hit….
My Question is why?
This is how our Justice (real world) System works now?
It sure does. You get into a barfight with a guy and knock him unconscious, you get 90 days in jail. You kill him, you get 15 years.
I’ll take it.
"Darling, you say Brooks Orpik 'checked' that guy. He did not 'get under him and put him into the wall'."--Beloved to me, Winter 2007
Cocktails With the Penguins, where Pens fans toast victories and drown defeats.
by GreenEyedLilo on Mar 8, 2010 10:30 AM EST up reply actions
Fair or not, he’ll get slapped with a really stiff suspension here. 5, and maybe more with the GMs meeting on this issue this week. He knocked out a star player with a really dirty hit directly targeted at the head. Booth was moving fast, Savard was not. Cooke hit exactly what he was aiming for.
You had me at no problem.
No one can say that Cooke ‘hit exactly what he was aiming for’ except for Matt himself. From the video he skated through and hit the person he was aiming for, ie the shooter, who’s head was down, and Cooke was watching the shot while finishing. Very poor technique for a check, as you should watch who are hitting. But his reaction immediately afterward and then when he realized the player he hit was down, suggested that he didn’t exact ‘target’ his head, but wanted to make sure he got hit after his release. Heck it’s a one goal game, and Boston was developing some improvement in th offensive zone in the 3rd. And while Savard was not moving fast, his shot moved him toward Cooke as he was skating directly at Savard. Again Matt made a cardinal sin by looking at the puck and seeing his ‘target’. As a fan of Cooke, I truly hope he wasn’t ‘head-hunting’ and like many here I am trying to give my team player the benefit of the doubt. Suspension worthy — yes much more so that the November hit. Worthy of a 10-game suspension I hope not, but the league has no consistancy on these things.
Yea I think Cooke just became the poster child for hits to the head. I expect him to get a severe punishment.
by genomachine-O on Mar 8, 2010 11:50 AM EST up reply actions
Matt Cooke will probably be suspended on the grounds of being Matt Cooke alone. That said, the hit looks kinda bad to me, and the result is definitely bad (hopefully not as bad as what poor David Booth experienced.) I hope a head shot was not Cooke’s intent, but I also think Cooke knows what he’s doing when it comes to delivering hits. I would not mind if he was suspended for a few games.
I’d love to see a clear and consistently applied policy in the NHL discouraging hits to the head, but I’d love to see a lot of things that I’m not expecting to actually happen.
I also think Richards should have been suspended.
"Darling, you say Brooks Orpik 'checked' that guy. He did not 'get under him and put him into the wall'."--Beloved to me, Winter 2007
Cocktails With the Penguins, where Pens fans toast victories and drown defeats.
I’ll have to look at the hit in more detail, but from what I’ve seen it is similar enough to Richards’ hit on Booth. The x-factor will likely be Cooke’s reputation.
For what it’s worth, I’m a Flyers fan and I thought Richards should have been suspended when the Booth hit happened. But I also think the NHL should just have an outright ban on hits to the head, whether they are led by shoulders, elbows, etc. They’re just too dangerous.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
So you think the Stevens on Lindros hit should have been penalized? You think Ovechkin on Jagr should have been penalized (wait… did I really just ask that here?)? I don’t want to watch a style of hockey that doesn’t allow those hits. A per se ban is too much. I do agree with a per se ban on blind side head shots. If you are going to blindside a guy, you had damn well catch body. These guys are so good at hitting, and they are taught to hit for center mass, that it’s simply unacceptable to let a guy line up someone’s head when you know that they aren’t going to dodge at all. There’s absolutely no reason Richards and Cooke couldn’t have driven their shoulder into the body of their victim, but both chose to go for head shots.
Killer_Carlson and Steckel Me Elmo are like brothers to me. And when I say brothers I don't mean like actual brothers. I mean it like how black people use it, which is more meaningful, I think.
Feb 21, 2004. Vancouver Canucks forward Matt Cooke was suspended for two games without pay by the NHL for spearing Matt Johnson of the Minnesota Wild
Are you guys really justifying this hit???
This was a low down, premeditated hit to the head! There is absolutely no difference between this hit and Richards hit. There are three fundamental differences between these two hits. The first is the angle in which Cooke hit Savard. Cooke had a straight line towards Savard’s body but where did he chose to hit him? The head. Richards hit on booth was coming from behind and at a bad angle, causing an accidental hit to the head. The second difference is Cooke’s elbow. Cooke purposely might have not stuck out the elbow but the hit on Savard’s was clearly his elbow. Richards hit on booth was a shoulder. The third difference is unfortunately his rep. Richards has had no prior altercations but Cooke has had more than a hand full. Look for Cooke to be suspended at least 5 games. Example: Cam Janssen suspended 5 games for his February 13 hit on Matt Bradley.
Premeditated? Seriously? Says the the fan of the team with the player that does the MOST premeditated and questionable hits.
"Half the game is mental, the other half is being mental." - Jim McKenny
All of OV’s “Questionable hits” were not all entirely his fault, all of his bad hits resulted from the opposing player trying to avoid his hit. This is clearly not the case here.
Hold up!
ARE YOU JUSTIFYING MALKIN’S CHEAP SHOTS?!?!?
He’s been getting away with it for years!
Cheers! From your friendly hockey board troll.
by Goon-Squad on Mar 8, 2010 2:35 PM EST up reply actions
Not the topic at hand, please stay on it
Wayne Gretzky had it wrong: 100% of the shots Gary Roberts doesn't take DO go in.
And the Richards hit
is valid?
Cheers! From your friendly hockey board troll.
by Goon-Squad on Mar 8, 2010 4:41 PM EST up reply actions
Yes because it’s a very similiar hit that unfortunately had an identical result.
Wayne Gretzky had it wrong: 100% of the shots Gary Roberts doesn't take DO go in.
Oh. I see.
Ovie and Richards just happen to be the Pens biggest rivals, so any mention of Malkins dirty past is off limits.
I understand now…
Cheers! From your friendly hockey board troll.
by Goon-Squad on Mar 8, 2010 4:52 PM EST up reply actions
If Malkin hits someone by swooping in from the side and they take him off on a stretcher, then it’s relevant.
Since he hasn’t, it’s not. Also I said to cut it out about Ovechkin, bringing his name up to incite is not relevant to this play either.
Wayne Gretzky had it wrong: 100% of the shots Gary Roberts doesn't take DO go in.
Incite?
I didn’t realize I was at fault here.
I coulda swore his name was mentioned a few times before I arrived…
Please erase all of my previous posts with any mention of AO & Geno in them and we’ll just start fresh, okay?
Cheers! From your friendly hockey board troll.
by Goon-Squad on Mar 8, 2010 5:01 PM EST up reply actions
It’s no big deal, I know you didn’t bring the topic up, but I’m asking to move on anyways, there’s no need to incite about Malkin’s “cheap shots” which are for a different place (not here) and different time (not now).
Wayne Gretzky had it wrong: 100% of the shots Gary Roberts doesn't take DO go in.
I’ll be up in less than a month for a Pens game.
(And I fully endorse “buy Hooks a beer night”)
Wayne Gretzky had it wrong: 100% of the shots Gary Roberts doesn't take DO go in.
First round
is on me!
Cheers! From your friendly hockey board troll.
by Goon-Squad on Mar 8, 2010 5:14 PM EST up reply actions
If you ever get to Amsterdam/Oxford i could offer you a beer.
There is a knack to flying: it's learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.
by Sid the captain on Mar 8, 2010 5:39 PM EST up reply actions
Hey Hooks, are you going up for the Atlanta game, and to see the Cup?
by PensAreYourDaddy on Mar 8, 2010 6:13 PM EST up reply actions
That is my plan to go up for that weekend, yes, but I haven’t commited 100% yet.
Wayne Gretzky had it wrong: 100% of the shots Gary Roberts doesn't take DO go in.
Excellent, I hope you get to go. If you happen to see me in my blue Letang jersey and my wife in her blue Crosby jersey, feel free to come up and say hi and I’ll gladly buy you that beer, assuming you aren’t opposed to drinking at a 1pm game ;-)
by PensAreYourDaddy on Mar 8, 2010 10:29 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah… I bet you do. When’s buy F&B a beer night?
Killer_Carlson and Steckel Me Elmo are like brothers to me. And when I say brothers I don't mean like actual brothers. I mean it like how black people use it, which is more meaningful, I think.
Will you be at the game on the 24th?
by PensAreYourDaddy on Mar 9, 2010 7:44 PM EST up reply actions
As of now I’m not going, and those tickets are a hot commodity so probably not. I guess it’s possible though.
Killer_Carlson and Steckel Me Elmo are like brothers to me. And when I say brothers I don't mean like actual brothers. I mean it like how black people use it, which is more meaningful, I think.
Then I’ll drink one in your honor….the one sane and somewhat reasonable Caps fan that I know of.
Just kidding….I don’t think you’re all that reasonable.
by PensAreYourDaddy on Mar 9, 2010 8:02 PM EST up reply actions
All of OV’s "Questionable hits" were not all entirely his fault, all of his bad hits resulted from the opposing player trying to avoid his hit. This is clearly not the case here.
Untrue. He boarded Kaleta, ran over someone from behind last year. That’s not the topic nor the point, and we have enough debate about Ovechkin here, so please no more for this topic.
Wayne Gretzky had it wrong: 100% of the shots Gary Roberts doesn't take DO go in.
Is that right?
Malkin has been getting away with cheap shots for years!
At least Ovie took his punishment and settled down his assholery, unlike said cheap shot artist.
http://goonsquadhockeyblogs.wordpress.com/2009/12/03/cry-me-a-river/
The proof is there. If you can handle it…
Cheers! From your friendly hockey board troll.
by Goon-Squad on Mar 8, 2010 12:05 PM EST up reply actions
The MOST? You are ridiculous. Guy is one of the leaders in hits for the league every single year and has 5 hits that people bitch about and only 2 or 3 of them were even bad hits. Lets try to rise above this and have a serious discussion about this. Ovechkin’s hitting is no different than Ryan Callahan or Dustin Brown, but because those guys are relatively nobody compared to AO, nobody pays the same kind of attention to them. All 3 guys play hard and hit everything that moves, and I’ve seen all 3 throw a bad hit. Keep things in perspective.
Killer_Carlson and Steckel Me Elmo are like brothers to me. And when I say brothers I don't mean like actual brothers. I mean it like how black people use it, which is more meaningful, I think.
Elbow makes contact, absolutely, but it’s tight to the body. As posted above I don’t like the hit, but this is NOT a text book elbow.
"Let the Rabbits wear glasses"
i agree, not text book elbow but the elbow hit him none the less. The bottom line is that the whole hit could have been avoided if he had gone for his body. Savard never moved!!! Cooke easily could have changed directions toward the body of Savard but choose to let his elbow meet with savards head.
Yea we know
and we all get that. It was bad judgment on Cookie’s part and he will pay for it no doubt.
Are you guys really justifying this hit???
The article and every comment, to a comment has said that no one is happy or proud of this and the Cooke is and should be about to be suspended.
Wayne Gretzky had it wrong: 100% of the shots Gary Roberts doesn't take DO go in.
by Hooks Orpik on Mar 8, 2010 11:38 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
This hit all boils down to Cooke’s judgment. To me, it looks like he hits Savard more with his bicep than he does shoulder or elbow. True, Savard’s head was down, but Cooke should have read the situation a little better and when he realized that he was going right past the head- which let’s face it, this is Cooke’s job, like mentioned above, so he knew what he was doing and seeing- he should have pulled up, or at least turned in to take the whole body instead.
He’ll get suspended, whether we like it or not. Compare it to any hit you want to, but a head hit is a head hit, and the league needs to get this thing figured out.
"Half the game is mental, the other half is being mental." - Jim McKenny
He deserves to be suspended. 4-5 games sound right to me. His elbow is down, but I don’t think that makes it any better, he comes in practically from behind, not the side. Whether he intended to hit him in the head or not, I personally don’t think he did, doesn’t matter. It’s just a completely reckless hit and one that deserves punishment.
I might be the only one who feels this way, but as a hockey player for 20+ years, I feel I have to say something. As a player, you have a responsibility to protect yourself as well. Savard has his head down coming across the middle of the ice, has just taken a shot, and gets drilled. This happens all the time. Unlucky result of a fast game. Whoever said the NHL should “ban hits to the head” has obviously never played the game. It happens, you put yourself as risk when you go out there, and everyone who plays contact hockey knows this.
We do not live to be able to eat and make money. We eat and make money to be able to enjoy life. That is what life means and that is what it is for.
--George Leigh Mallory
Oh well you played the game so we should just all listen to you, you must be right. Your beer league hockey team must have a different mindset than the entire NHL. The GMs are meeting right now to discuss how to ban hits to the head. So apparently the people that actually play the game have a problem with it, Even if the people that pretend they did on message boards dont have a problem with it.
by genomachine-O on Mar 8, 2010 11:58 AM EST up reply actions
Dude, relax. I was just trying to bring up the idea that there is some responsibility on a players part to keep himself safe. People get hit in the head in hockey. Concussions happen in hockey. I had a number of them myself. (Insert your bad joke about me being brain-damaged here) I dislike the idea of one-size-fits-all rules in a game where there are lots of gray area occurrences. It’s kind of like the rule about ALL pucks going in off skates being disallowed. Eventually the league realized that that was stupid. There needs to be room for interpretation.
We do not live to be able to eat and make money. We eat and make money to be able to enjoy life. That is what life means and that is what it is for.
--George Leigh Mallory
There's TOO MUCH room for interpretation
as it is.
Something should have been about this issue years ago, but never was.
I’d love to talk about your brain damage because momma smoked cracked while pregnant and fed you leaded paint chip soup, but knowing that you got your eggs scrambled because the game you love doesn’t love you back is no laughing matter.
Cheers! From your friendly hockey board troll.
by Goon-Squad on Mar 8, 2010 12:18 PM EST up reply actions
there not neccesarily trying to come up with one rule that will encompass all head shots. They need a basis to go from though. Campbells rulings have been inconsistent and thats part of the problem. There is some responsibility on the players no doubt. But when a player is hit from the side, where he cant see the on coming player coming, in the head, thats a play that can be elimininated from the game. There is no way Savard could see Cooke coming. It looks like Cooke targeted Savards head. Savard had no way to protect himself. If Cooke just takes the body on him thats fine, but theres not need to hit him in the head like that.
by genomachine-O on Mar 8, 2010 12:19 PM EST up reply actions
Definiely, the consistency (lack there of) kills the NHL. They say they want to cut out head-shots but they don’t always suspend for it. They need to establish some sort of line and stick to it. Unfortunately for Cooke, it’s looking like he could be the guy they set the example of.
Wayne Gretzky had it wrong: 100% of the shots Gary Roberts doesn't take DO go in.
Actually there is a way Savard could have seen Cooke coming. He could have kept his head up. I’m not necessarily justifying the hit, but Wyo has a point. You need to protect yourself. I don’t want to see hockey turn out like the NFL where the aggressor bears all of the responsibility of the hit.
even if his head is up Cooke came from behind him during the shot then to the side at impact. Theres no way for Savard to see him. Either way, whether Savard could see him or not it was a hit to the head and theres no need for it.
by genomachine-O on Mar 8, 2010 1:18 PM EST up reply actions
Having your head up does not mean just looking right in front of you. Being aware of where other players are (both yours and the opponents’) is part of playing good hockey. Saying there is no need for hits to the head is like saying there is no need for knee to knee checks. Of course there isn’t, but they happen.
We do not live to be able to eat and make money. We eat and make money to be able to enjoy life. That is what life means and that is what it is for.
--George Leigh Mallory
Whoever said the NHL should "ban hits to the head" has obviously never played the game.
That was me. I did play, actually. (I was a goalie, and a bad one at that.)
To be clear, I wasn’t suggesting that a hit to the head becomes an automatic suspension, game misconduct, etc. Make it a roughing or charging penalty and the league can review it later. If the player carrying the puck has some responsibility to protect himself (true), the defender also has responsibility to take the body and not the head (also true).
Yes, it’s a fast game and accidents happen. There is no way to eradicate hits to the head entirely. Penalizing them – even for two minutes – could make players be a bit more cautious. That’s all.
No matter which side you take, the NHL needs to clearly define a rule regarding this issue and stick to it. I think we all agree that the league does a lousy job with consistently enforcing its own rules.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
Bullshit.
There is NO similarity between the two hits, except that they both resulted in unfortunate head injuries. In Richard’s case, he made every effort to use his shoulder, and was obviously just trying to make a body check. In the criminal act last night, Cooke not only used his elbow (although you could argue he kept it tight to hte body, hence no elbowing) but was obviously targeting Savard’s head – he could have easily hit him in the body but aimed specifically for his outstretched head. In my world, that indicates intent to INJURE, not intent to make a good hockey play. Cooke should be suspended, fined, and possibly drawn and quartered. While the outcomes were both (potentially) equally unfortunate for the afflicted players, my take is that Richard’s instance was one of hockey simply being a violent game and sh*t happens; the Cooke hit was a blatant attempt to injure another player and should be stamped upon by the league with iron boots.
Richards could have avoided Booths head if he wanted to just as Cooke could have. Thats why they are similar. Both blind side, both could have avoided head shots and didnt.
by genomachine-O on Mar 8, 2010 12:01 PM EST up reply actions
You are wrong. The hits are virtually the same.
by PensAreYourDaddy on Mar 8, 2010 12:22 PM EST up reply actions
How, both Cooke and Richards could have squared up and hit there guys on the body(both from the side) but neither did.
by genomachine-O on Mar 8, 2010 12:22 PM EST up reply actions
The difference is the timing!!! Richards & Booth are intersecting at such a speed that it is impossible for him to stop when Richards decides to make the hit on Booth. You can even see Richards is trying to hit his body but ultimately fails and hits his head. Cooke on the other hand sees Savard, who is standing still (a.k.a not moving), makes a b-line for him and instead of going for his body hits his head. Sure maybe Richard could have not been so out of control when he hits booth but there is only one hit that I can tell had enough time to think twice about.
Neither hit is late so it’s not about stopping your momentum. The problem is they both hit guys that didn’t see it coming and thus were not going to dodge the hit, and yet they both chose to make head contact. Trust me, if either of them wanted to go shoulder to shoulder they could have. Both are exceptionally skilled hitters. They saw an opportunity to drop a kill shot and took it. Maybe the rules don’t technically penalize that play (depending on how you interpret the extremely vague NHL rulebook) but both hits were of evil intent in my opinion.
Killer_Carlson and Steckel Me Elmo are like brothers to me. And when I say brothers I don't mean like actual brothers. I mean it like how black people use it, which is more meaningful, I think.
True,
but, Cooke is now a repeat offender, and Richards, having been put under the microscrope once before, won’t get that free pass if he were to ever do it again.
If the league can manage to pass swift judgement on the key stars in the game, (Example: Ovie) then possibly the message will get across and these types of hits will stop.
Until then, it’s a free for all…
Cheers! From your friendly hockey board troll.
by Goon-Squad on Mar 8, 2010 12:13 PM EST up reply actions
Umm, Savard is standing completely still. The line of ‘attack’ that Cooke took was entirely of his own making. Booth was in motion – adding that uncertainty to the actual location of the hit by Richards.
But,
a hit to the head is a hit to the head.
Right?
Cheers! From your friendly hockey board troll.
by Goon-Squad on Mar 8, 2010 5:26 PM EST up reply actions
In my sports experience, hitting something that is in motion while you are also in motion is typically more precise than hitting a stationary target. You mention that Booth was in motion, but he wasn’t exactly skating a serpentine pattern up the ice. I doubt Richards had much trouble figuring out where Booth was going to be when he got there.
by PensAreYourDaddy on Mar 8, 2010 6:20 PM EST up reply actions
Dude, what’d you play – golf?? Just kidding, but that is certainly NOT my experience (admittedly not hockey, but football and rugby entail just as much if not more contact). If someone is standing still you can definitely target a certain part of the body, whereas if you’re both moving you aim for ‘center-of-mass’ and hope for the best! I believe that the difference between the two hits (Richards vs. Cooke) is the same as the difference between “inadvertant” and “avoidable”.
Goon-squad, I am not even gonna go there. That’s for the league to decide. And while I personally feel the NFL rules about it are silly because sometimes it just happens, it does give them the mechanism to limit the happenstance and punish those determined to be deliberate … like Cooke’s.
I think Richards’ hit was much worse because a) he was moving much faster and b) he clearly launched himself at Booth while I think it’s fair to say Cooke just skated through Savard. I don’t like either hit at all but I have a hard time seeing the Cooke hit as worse than the Richards hit.
Killer_Carlson and Steckel Me Elmo are like brothers to me. And when I say brothers I don't mean like actual brothers. I mean it like how black people use it, which is more meaningful, I think.
have we heard if cooke’s gonna be suspended/how long he’ll be suspended for? sorry if it’s been posted and i missed it.
thank you!
now if you’ll excuse me, i’m wussing out of this debate.
by katielynn906 on Mar 8, 2010 12:35 PM EST up reply actions
Matt Cooke changed his angle right before hitting Savard.
Watch him the whole way in, eh can’t not see Savard as he approaches, then he changes angle to line up Savard’s head. He didn’t look surprised or even look to see if he just hit someone. If he wanted to check Savard he would have come harder, the way he did it is exactly the way you go up and give a cheap shot at an opponent and try to get away with it.
Skate by like nothing happened.
I’ve defended Cooke before, but this hit, his angle of approach change, I mean if he checked Savard on that play they would have awkwardly bumped into each other, they both would have fallen down and as a hit it would be a huge fail. Richards was either trying to kill Booth or hit him hard, Cooke was in now way trying to hit Savard, he was trying to elbow him in the head.
He would have had to change his angle to make any kind of hit on Savard. I’m not sure how you think this would not have been a pretty good hit had Cooke gotten the body. He had good momentum, Savard’s a smaller guy and would have gone down hard just the same.
by PensAreYourDaddy on Mar 8, 2010 12:26 PM EST up reply actions
Banning head shots will be like banning knee-on-knee. It’s very subjective and enforcement will be difficult. Look at the NFL where head shots to the QB are illegal but some guys get penalized and/or fined, and some don’t. That said, I agree with doing everything to minimize any player getting carted off the ice (head, knee, or otherwise).
That's part of the problem.
Penalizing some players and not others sends a mixed message of sorts.
Ovie had his day in court, Malkin hasn’t, (yet), Richards had his, (was somehow exhonorated) and Cooke is now deemed a repeat offender.
If the league doesn’t slam everyone, evenly, there is no real justice.
BTW, how in the fuck does Bertuzzi still have a NHL career?!?
Cheers! From your friendly hockey board troll.
by Goon-Squad on Mar 8, 2010 12:50 PM EST up reply actions
Regardless of what we think his "intention"may be, when the NHL takes very firm and concrete steps to specifically prevent and penalize hits to the head, I think you will find events like the Cooke on Savard hit will be reduced dramatically. You will still have hits to the head, which will be unavoidable, in a fast physical game, like hockey, but as soon as every player in the league learns to adjust their game, play will be much safer. Players will make efforts to avoid even a “potential” hit to the head.
to respond to my own post…its sort of in the same boat as high sticking. If you got read of the penalty, the number of “inadvertent” high sticking would probably skyrocket. And not because people are actively TRYING to whack someone with their stick, but because they are no longer actively trying NOT to whack someone with their stick.
Stevens on Lindros
Honest question, was Stevens suspended for his hit across the middle that basically ended Lindros’s career?
Seems like more of a sign of the times...
then that they are complaining about Cookes’ hit. He did exactly what that “HOFer” did when he played with NJ. And he was lauded as a hard-nosed player at the time. Cooke could’ve gone more for the body I agree. But he hit a player no different than would have happened if he was a receiver going across the middle in the NFL. Same shit.
And?
That’s exactly the point here.
The league failed to take this issue seriously last March, and are now ‘attempting’ to get something done about it.
10, 15, 20 years ago these hits were not seen as being dirty, cheap or blind sided, but now that the long term effects have been seen something has to be done, and soon.
The NFL has made some changes, haven’t they???
Cheers! From your friendly hockey board troll.
by Goon-Squad on Mar 8, 2010 1:41 PM EST up reply actions
The difference between the Lindros/Stevens hit and any of the ones we’re talking about now was that Lindros still had possession of the puck when he was nailed. Booth and Savard both had already either shot or passed the puck (although it was a split second from when they did to when they were creamed).
I hated Stevens as a player, but I don’t think that was a dirty hit at all.
Still.
If a player gets nailed in the head while in possession of the puck, is it not still a hit to the head?
Cheers! From your friendly hockey board troll.
by Goon-Squad on Mar 8, 2010 2:39 PM EST up reply actions
There are some situations where you can completely justify a hit when the player being hit is just out of position.
Stevens wanted to check Lindros. He was coming up on him, ready to put a shoulder into his chest. Lindros, as he commonly did, had his head down, staring at the puck. That shoulder to the chest now becomes a shoulder to the chin.
I can’t watch videos at work (they’re blocked), so I could be wrong, but I remember it as Lindros weaving around players and just as he crossed the blueline, Stevens came in and got him (and it was one of those hits where you check him with your shoulder but then push off with your arm so it looks like it’s an elbow).
God, I can’t believe I’m defending Stevens so much.
Again...
…if a player gets nailed in the head while in possession of the puck, is it not STILL a hit to the head?
Cheers! From your friendly hockey board troll.
by Goon-Squad on Mar 8, 2010 3:01 PM EST up reply actions
Yes, there should be certain situations where it wouldn’t be suspendable. Just like there are certain situations where an opposing player hits a goalie shouldn’t be (and isn’t) interference. Or when a defensive end tackles a QB below the knee.
These things should not be (and aren’t) black and white.
Hell, even no-touch icing (which I support) doesn’t mean that any time a puck is shot from the other side of the red line would mean that icing would always be called. There needs to be interpretation.
Okay.
I believe that’s why none of us are employed by the NHL and have no say so in the matter.
If fan opinions counted, Cooke would have been hung already, and that’s coming from HIS OWN fan base.
We’ll see if their year of ‘reports and investigations’ have determined anything more to warrant some form of base-line decision and one- punishment-fits-the-crime across the board.
Cheers! From your friendly hockey board troll.
by Goon-Squad on Mar 8, 2010 3:29 PM EST up reply actions
Yes it was.
Stevens perfected the art of giving people concussions.
All of his “knockout” hits were the same: He hit people squarely in the jaw with his shoulder and followed through with his elbow. He did it in such a way that the elbow follow-through appeared momentum-based. It was not. His hits on Lindros, Francis, and Kariya were identical.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
He got away with it throughout juniors because nobody was big enough to make him pay. He carried bad habits to the NHL and got taught a lesson.
Killer_Carlson and Steckel Me Elmo are like brothers to me. And when I say brothers I don't mean like actual brothers. I mean it like how black people use it, which is more meaningful, I think.
I don’t think so, no. That’s back when hockey was a tough sport. (kidding)
Follow the Penguins on SBN @ Pensburgh.com and twitter.
The problem with this hit, is that it is
100% legal. As was the Richards hit. Until the rules are more clear, an “oopsie” body-check/shoulder-check that “misses” and results in a concussion will be legal and will happen.
They have to at least get a rule in there before suspending everyone who inflicts injury within the rulebook.
His earlier suspension was based on the fact that the dude was a foot taller than him so he had to leave his feet AND get the elbow up just to make contact with the head, which made the malicious intent quite obvious. This hit was delivered with the shoulder, right after the puck left the stick, and his feet were planted as he glided through it. It was ugly, but it was legal.
No sir.
You are wrong.
That was NOT a legal hit, and the NHL will prove that with their decision.
Cheers! From your friendly hockey board troll.
by Goon-Squad on Mar 8, 2010 3:00 PM EST up reply actions
Then why was no penalty called? In the opinion of the officials, there wasn’t a penalty.
Even if after the damage had been done, they could have racked Cooke up with a misconduct and tossed him, but they didn’t.
I find it hard to believe all 4 on-ice officials missed this, especially when they blow the whistle almost immediately.
I’m not saying it’s a clean hit, but it wasn’t penalized for a reason.
Wayne Gretzky had it wrong: 100% of the shots Gary Roberts doesn't take DO go in.
Hooks,
take a look at this:
http://nhl.fanhouse.com/2009/10/24/david-booth-taken-off-on-stretcher-after-devastating-hit-from-mi/
Cheers! From your friendly hockey board troll.
by Goon-Squad on Mar 8, 2010 5:55 PM EST up reply actions
That was NOT a legal hit, and the NHL will prove that with their decision.
I don’t think a suspension, which is likely, necessarily means the hit was against the rules.
Please explain which rule was violated with the hit.
by PensAreYourDaddy on Mar 8, 2010 3:19 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
You tell me.
I believe they are trying to institute something as we type.
Like they have been for the last year…
Cheers! From your friendly hockey board troll.
by Goon-Squad on Mar 8, 2010 3:23 PM EST up reply actions
Right, so they will “prove” it was not a legal hit by changing the rules after the fact.
Just making sure we were on the same page there.
by PensAreYourDaddy on Mar 8, 2010 3:57 PM EST up reply actions
Why do officials miss the calls they miss?
Why was Richards penalized so heavily in the game just to have the NHL decide otherwise after the fact?
Why is the sky blue?
Cheers! From your friendly hockey board troll.
by Goon-Squad on Mar 8, 2010 3:21 PM EST reply actions
That is a question for sure,
But doesn’t answer the question of:
“Which specific rule does this hit violate?”
Answer:
“None, which is why this hit keeps happening”
Yes.
But how do they justify past suspensions for head shots if there isn’t an exsisting rule in place?
(That only works in Sean Avery cases)
Cheers! From your friendly hockey board troll.
by Goon-Squad on Mar 8, 2010 3:31 PM EST up reply actions
This is it...
…so far:
http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=26316
I guess it’s like a combo meal, but the cheese is always extra?
Cheers! From your friendly hockey board troll.
by Goon-Squad on Mar 8, 2010 3:34 PM EST up reply actions
What am I supposed to do with that? Go through each rule and state why it doesn’t apply? How about you pick the specific rule that makes this an illegal hit.
Usually they justify the misconduct penalties and suspensions on the maliciousness of the hit and severity of injury, not because it was an illegal play.
I cannot,
just as you can’t, just as the league can’t, etc.
Yet, here we are, waiting for ANOTHER suspension to be handed out on what is called an illegal, or dirty, or cheap – hit to the head.
The NHL doesn’t have to answer to the fans, or the players for that matter.
We either accept their decisions or don’t.
I won’t even try to justify this, or claim to know every rule, but as of 2 days ago, head shots were deemed illegal…
…somehow. Somewhere.
Cheers! From your friendly hockey board troll.
by Goon-Squad on Mar 8, 2010 4:23 PM EST up reply actions
“misconduct” it is the catch-all rule for the league. Much like Disorderly Conduct is the catch-all misdemeanor for the police.
Improper Lane Use?
Failure to signal?
Cheers! From your friendly hockey board troll.
by Goon-Squad on Mar 8, 2010 3:36 PM EST up reply actions
Fair to say he broke the golden rule?
by PensAreYourDaddy on Mar 8, 2010 4:08 PM EST up reply actions
He did,
whatever it may be, and wherever it may be.
Cheers! From your friendly hockey board troll.
by Goon-Squad on Mar 8, 2010 4:24 PM EST up reply actions
Nope.
I’m hated everywhere.
Cheers! From your friendly hockey board troll.
by Goon-Squad on Mar 8, 2010 5:28 PM EST up reply actions
My problem...
With the hit is that Cooke could have easily went for Savard’s right shoulder and still gotten the same, big hit without injury. It looks like he aimed for Savard’s head and that’s what’s probably gonna give him a suspension (if anything).
At least you see that
there is a problem here.
Pens fans see it. (Some do, anyways.) Bruins fans see it.
Hell, it’s the hot topic of the great meeting of the minds.
But, there was no call on the ice.
Why?
Richards was heavily penalized for his hit, yet the league backed down when the disciplinary actions were due.
Are the already shitty refs afraid to make a call, thinking that the NHL will just override it anyways?
If this is the case here, the refs are long overdue for some intensive re-training!
Cheers! From your friendly hockey board troll.
by Goon-Squad on Mar 8, 2010 4:37 PM EST up reply actions
I’ll be totally shocked if Cooke isn’t suspended at least 5 games.
I liked Cooke up until yesterday. Pens don’t need someone like that on their team. He’ll fit in good with the Flyers though
I was shocked
when Richards was let off the hook!
Now the league is back pedalling.
Cheers! From your friendly hockey board troll.
by Goon-Squad on Mar 8, 2010 5:02 PM EST up reply actions
I think Cooke should get suspended, but if Richards didn’t get suspended, neither should Cooke, for the exact same hit.
by GhostWalker40 on Mar 8, 2010 5:12 PM EST up reply actions
Say what?
Where exactly do you stand here???
Cheers! From your friendly hockey board troll.
by Goon-Squad on Mar 8, 2010 5:21 PM EST up reply actions
I stand by the notion that if Cooke were in Richards’ skates on the Booth hit, we’d be seeing a suspension. If Richards were in Cooke’s skates for the Savard hit, we’d see no punishment. Cooke reaps what he sows. It’s in his style of play and, as Hooks pointed out, it’s the risk he takes. Does this mean Cooke isn’t a dirty player? Hell no. We’ve seen enough of his antics (Anisimov hit for example) to determine his not exactly the most by-the-book guy in the league. But he’s getting a suspension for this because he’s Matt Cooke involved in a questionable situation.
Follow the Penguins on SBN @ Pensburgh.com and twitter.
You gotta love
those reputation calls!
Cheers! From your friendly hockey board troll.
by Goon-Squad on Mar 8, 2010 6:00 PM EST up reply actions
I may be imagining things, but I feel like Cooke once acknowledged his reputation in the league. I can’t remember exactly when it was, but I remember him saying something along the lines of “If it were me, I would probably be suspended” (paraphrasing of course). So I think he should be ready for what’s coming.
I remember something like that. It may have been after OV’s knee-on-knee hit on Gonchar in the playoffs last year. I doubt Cooke will be surprised by the league’s decision.
by PensAreYourDaddy on Mar 8, 2010 10:01 PM EST up reply actions
I liked Cooke up until yesterday. Pens don’t need someone like that on their team. He’ll fit in good with the Flyers though
I do wonder if this one hit may have changed management’s opinion of Cooke. It’s a shame because he’s been playing some good hockey lately, but this will be suspension #2 of the year, and his target’s only going to grow.
Even if he didn’t intend to do it, the arc of his career may have changed on this black eye he gave the team and organization.
Wayne Gretzky had it wrong: 100% of the shots Gary Roberts doesn't take DO go in.
That’s the point, he’s giving ammo to the Penguins haters, and they get enough of it with Sid being the face of the NHL as it is.
Notice the trolls that came to this thread? People just look for a reason to hate on a Penguins player or the team as a whole
by GhostWalker40 on Mar 8, 2010 5:10 PM EST up reply actions
Not me!
I’m an equal opportunity hater!
Cheers! From your friendly hockey board troll.
by Goon-Squad on Mar 8, 2010 5:15 PM EST up reply actions
Besides,
you opened the door for this one:
http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=26356
I’ll kick a man when he’s down. No prob!
Detroit sucks!
Move the Coyotes!
And fire Bettman!
Cheers! From your friendly hockey board troll.
by Goon-Squad on Mar 8, 2010 5:21 PM EST up reply actions
That's another problem.
Players that have been give a pass in the past, cannot be considered repeat offenders!
http://www.downgoesbrown.com/2009/11/nhl-suspensions.html
Cheers! From your friendly hockey board troll.
by Goon-Squad on Mar 8, 2010 5:23 PM EST up reply actions
He’ll fit in good with the Flyers though
Right, because the Flyers cheap-shot everyone. They have never had any skilled players, only 20 Riley Cote / Eric Godard clones. They only won the Stanley Cup because they beat up Clarence Campbell two years in a row. “Robert Earle Clarke” is actually an anagram for noted Satanist Bert Karle Roe-Klare, who started the great Flyer tradition of drowning puppies.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
by mikefive on Mar 8, 2010 5:22 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
If the skate fits...
Cheers! From your friendly hockey board troll.
by Goon-Squad on Mar 8, 2010 5:24 PM EST up reply actions
I guess sarcasm is tough to detect on teh intArt00bz.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
Sarcasm?
Is that what that was?
I coulda swore those were all facts in there!
My bad!
Sorry Philly!
Please don’t chuck any batteries at me!!!
Cheers! From your friendly hockey board troll.
by Goon-Squad on Mar 8, 2010 5:30 PM EST up reply actions
Much to mikefive’s credit, he is actually a “see it from both sides” sort of Flyers fan. We’ve had some debates here and there on both Pensburgh and Broad Street Hockey, but it’s never been from the views of a snooty Flyers fan rocking the orange and black glasses.
Follow the Penguins on SBN @ Pensburgh.com and twitter.
Yes. Always the classy Flyer fans...
…I think that’s sarcasm, but I’m not too sure.
Cheers! From your friendly hockey board troll.
by Goon-Squad on Mar 8, 2010 6:32 PM EST up reply actions
i’m not the most intellectual fan, so don’t kill me. i don’t think that any of us can know or will ever know cooke’s intention.
all i want is for savard to get well quickly and not to have any lasting brain damage.
that’s the way i see it.
I’m glad the weight of the world has not crushed your idealism yet. Give it a few years ;-)
by PensAreYourDaddy on Mar 8, 2010 6:31 PM EST up reply actions
The main reason this and the Richards/Booth hit was dirty is simply because the head could have been avoided. Coming in at that angle, there’s absolutely not reason why you can’t make contact with the body and still deliver a quality hit that knocks the guy down. Neither hit was late, neither player left their feet, neither player charged. No one except the Richards and Cooke can say if they truly targeted the head but the fact is that the head WAS avoidable and body contact would have given a perfectly fine hit.
by lostprophetRJX on Mar 8, 2010 5:04 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Both clubs
showed a ton of class by not brawling, sticking by his side and cheering for him when he showed some signs of life.
AHEM!
We all know that would NOT be the case if this had happened in Philly…
Cheers! From your friendly hockey board troll.
by Goon-Squad on Mar 8, 2010 5:17 PM EST up reply actions
The exact same thing happened after Richards hit Booth, which took place in Philly. There was no brawl. The fans were so concerned that you could hear a pin drop.
Your criticism of the Flyers has no basis in reality at all.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
Um...
…had that of been the Pens involved, and not the Pussycats from the Sunshine State, we’d be having a totally different conversation right now.
And you KNOW this!
Cheers! From your friendly hockey board troll.
by Goon-Squad on Mar 8, 2010 5:33 PM EST up reply actions
It isn’t really fair to say we know for certain how one fan base would react to a given situation.
For example, I wasn’t expecting the fans in Detroit to cheer wildly following Crosby’s injury in game 7 last year.
by PensAreYourDaddy on Mar 9, 2010 2:17 PM EST up reply actions
You weren't?
Your bad…
Cheers! From your friendly hockey board troll.
by Goon-Squad on Mar 9, 2010 3:28 PM EST up reply actions
yes
imo this is a suspendable hit. cook went right after his mellon and made no effort to pull up. g
" Lord Stanley, scratch thier names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009
Yes, it was a bad hit, but unfortunately, it was a legal hit. There was no elbow (people are saying there was, but there wasn’t. He keeps it down. If he did make contact with the elbow, it would be to the stomach or chest, which would make the head shot “incidental contact.”). Along with everything Hooks said, this was a legal hit. It wasn’t a nice hit to make, but it was still legal. There’s no rule against shoulder to head contact. There should be, but there isn’t. Hopefully Campbell realizes this and creates a rule this week, but doesn’t hand down a suspension to Cooke for the same reasons that he didn’t hand down a suspension to Richards.
by Hatt the Moople on Mar 8, 2010 7:10 PM EST up reply actions
There isn't?
The league’s rule book has several instances that seem to cover this kind of intentional contact.
Rule 21(i) calls for a match penalty for "an attempt to injure (in any manner)."
From Table 7, on page 135 of the rule book, Automatic Game Misconducts: "for a major elbowing penalty to the face or head."
Shoulder? Elbow? The elbow definitely comes up in the replays. It’s hard to tell exactly what part of the anatomy made contact with his head.
But the head was the target, and Cooke’s aim was dead on.
Cheers! From your friendly hockey board troll.
by Goon-Squad on Mar 9, 2010 3:27 PM EST up reply actions
Plagiarize much, Goon?
If you are going to use Jack Edwards’ words, you should at least cite him as your source.
by PensAreYourDaddy on Mar 9, 2010 5:28 PM EST up reply actions
Who?
I got that from a Fakebook board.
No source cited.
Cheers! From your friendly hockey board troll.
by Goon-Squad on Mar 13, 2010 10:40 AM EST up reply actions
At the time.
Cheers! From your friendly hockey board troll.
by Goon-Squad on Mar 13, 2010 11:33 AM EST up reply actions
Agree with you. All this people that are making comparisons, are not valid each hit to the head should be looked at individually and proper suspension applied. The elbow made contact with the head of the player when he was not in a position tosee it coming. This is the classic hit that can be dangerous it does not matter who delivers it inetntionally or not. In the case of Savard it is bad because he is vulnerable to more concussions. I am a Pens fan and had been for a long time, but I don’t like this type of hits. Those who engage in an argument as to wether Richards or Oveshkyn or whoever else where suspended or not, folks, that’s irrelevant here. I feel Cook should be suspended and for more than a couple of games. Next time he’ll think about it. It is impossible to say wether their was intent or not to injure. But any player should know that that is a dangerous hit for anyone to receive. The problem in the league is that their is a certain lack of respect for the opposing player in terms of career ending hits. Do not make any mistakes, this players know it. That’s why you will rarely see if ever a good player taking a chip shot at someone (with few exceptions). Part of it could be the instigator rule.
One of my favorite quotes on this subject
From Boston GM Peter Chiarelli:
“What I saw was that he was in a position of vulnerability,” Chiarelli said. “Now, that is not a criteria right now for supplemental discipline. But I think you have to look at the repeat offending. These are all things we have talked about before.”
Ok, so what he did is not something that he should be suspended for, but because he has had past transgressions, maybe he should be suspended?
I’m glad so many fans out there think this issue is so cut and dried, and yet the GM of the victim in this case can’t even figure it out.
by PensAreYourDaddy on Mar 8, 2010 9:28 PM EST reply actions
2 cents
Didn’t read all of the comments, just wanted to put my 2 cents in.
Cooke’s hit didn’t appear to be a shot for the head, he didn’t leave his feet and he didn’t even really raise his elbow… the hit wasn’t late(real time wasn’t even half a second later)Richard’s hit looked worse as he left his feet, seemed to jump into the hit way more than Cooke…
I feel bad for Savard(or anyone who gets hurt playing hockey for that matter), but it wasn’t a penalty so it shouldn’t be a suspension. Just bad luck…
I found this to be a pretty interesting debate here.
The first replay I saw of the incident on NESN looked to me like Cooke and Savard’s shoulders collided. On other angles it can look pretty nasty. The fact most of the replays are shown in slow motion doesn’t really do Cooke any favours.
People say Cooke is aiming for Savard’s head. I don’t really believe this to be the case. There’s really no reason Cooke would want to do that considering the Pens were up on the scoreboard and there were only a few minutes to go. Risking taking a penalty would just be stupid and Cooke knows there’s a time and a place for an agitator. This for me is simply a guy trying to finish his check and it didn’t quite work out how he’d planned. He looked pretty shocked when he was looking at Savard lying on the ice.
Savard clearly has no awareness of Cooke’s presence. I think that’s fair enough as Cooke is coming from his blind side and Savard is intent on shooting the puck. I’d be interested to know if Wideman gave any warning to Savard as he skated past because he potentially could have warned his team mate of the oncoming checker. I think the deviation of Savard’s right shoulder during his shooting action is also a factor in Cooke misjudging the hit.
So do you suspend a guy for a hit like that? For my mind, this sort of thing needs to be dealt with on the ice. There needs to be a mechanism where the NHL folks in Toronto can review the hit and say it’s worth X amount of penalty minutes. Then when the offending player is out of the box, you’d think that the opposition would be pretty keen to get him to drop the gloves. The Bruins didn’t really go after Cooke despite him not being given a penalty at all in this case.
The fact that the Richards hit was dealt with on the ice seems to be a defining factor in why he wasn’t suspended. With Cooke it’s the opposite and I think the NHL will suspend him, because if they don’t it suggests his hit was entirely legal.
In AFL (the Australian Football League) a player can be deemed to have made either ‘negligent’ or ‘reckless’ contact. This is a clear case of negligent contact. Until the NHL can determine the difference between negligent and reckless , and what penalty it deserves, I’m not sure they can really set any sort of precedent by suspending Matt Cooke.
by crosby_in_sydney on Mar 9, 2010 7:38 AM EST reply actions
Well said, and probably the most objective opinion yet. Thanks.
The world is a dangerous place to live - not because of the people who are evil but because of the people who don't do anything about it. - Albert Einstein
They do.
It’s called ‘Intent To Injure.’
Cheers! From your friendly hockey board troll.
by Goon-Squad on Mar 9, 2010 3:31 PM EST up reply actions
The ‘intent to injure’ argument is exactly the problem in this instance. It makes the decision emotional. How does one person decide another persons intentions? It’s a very black and white scenario .
There needs to be room for grading these types of incidents. A video that springs to mind is this: https://www.afl.com.au/Video/tabid/76/videoid/51421/tribunal+amendments+for+2010/Default.aspx#VideoPlayerB
While this video is by no means perfect, it gives examples of how different forms of contact are defined. If the NHL were to create such a video that shows clear definition between different actions, there would not be such a gray area. Players would understand this and act accordingly.
by crosby_in_sydney on Mar 10, 2010 7:35 AM EST up reply actions
I think the NHL will suspend him, because if they don’t it suggests his hit was entirely legal.
Well written, but you lost me a bit with the quote above. If the hit was not legal, what do you consider to be the infraction under the current NHL rules?
by PensAreYourDaddy on Mar 9, 2010 2:14 PM EST up reply actions
What I meant is that by Cooke not receiving any major or minor penalties during the game, this type of hit is in no way discouraged. That’s why I think the NHL would try to find a way to suspend Cooke.
Unfortunately the rules are too black and white for this particular situation to be defined easily, so hopefully the GMs can work towards finding a clear direction on how to approach this sort of incident.
by crosby_in_sydney on Mar 10, 2010 7:51 AM EST up reply actions
Think again...
The league’s rule book has several instances that seem to cover this kind of intentional contact.
Rule 21(i) calls for a match penalty for “an attempt to injure (in any manner).”
From Table 7, on page 135 of the rule book, Automatic Game Misconducts: “for a major elbowing penalty to the face or head.”
Shoulder? Elbow? The elbow definitely comes up in the replays. It’s hard to tell exactly what part of the anatomy made contact with his head.
But the head was the target, and Cooke’s aim was dead on.
Cheers! From your friendly hockey board troll.
by Goon-Squad on Mar 9, 2010 3:30 PM EST up reply actions
Plagiarize much, Goon?
If you are going to use Jack Edwards’ words, you should at least cite him as your source.
by PensAreYourDaddy on Mar 9, 2010 5:29 PM EST up reply actions
Cheers! From your friendly hockey board troll.
Read much?
Cheers! From your friendly hockey board troll.
by Goon-Squad on Mar 13, 2010 10:41 AM EST up reply actions
and now, a word from an extremely cynical hockey fan
My take on the Cooke hit echoes some of what I’ve read above. Was it a legal hit? Technically, yes. Should it be legal? Probably not. Though there has to be some leeway given how fast the action moves in a hockey game, Cooke was clearly trying to level a player in a fairly defenseless position. Will the NHL add a rule to discourage this type of hit? I’m not holding my breath. How long did it take the NHL to realize that crushing a player into the boards from behind was, you know, a bad thing?
The only conclusion I’ve been able to draw about this stuff over the years is that the NHL really doesn’t give a crap about the players. The league is basically the owners, and the owners only care about what makes them the most money. And for the most part, this is about (a) keeping star players on the ice, and (b) making examples of non-star players to give the illusion of caring about player safety and behavior. If Cooke had hit, say, Steve Begin like this, no one at the NHL level would care; but the Bruins are a much more appealing team when Marc Savard is on the ice, so the NHL acts like it’s serious about the problem. On the flip side, the Flyers are a more appealing team with Mike Richards on the ice. And of course, Lord help you if your name is Steve Moore and Todd Bertuzzi is an All-Star forward that year. Not that the NHL takes a different approach to off-ice stuff. I still scratch my head that Sean Avery got suspended 6 games for crude comments that “cast the sport in an unfavorable light”, yet Pat Kane beating up a cab driver over pocket change or Ovechkin shoving a reporter in Vancouver are somehow just fine in this regard.
P is for Latrobe.
Ahhh Bertuzzi
LOL I remember 1995 – 1996 I was skating at a rink in Florida called Incredible Ice and Bertuzzi was there teaching hockey camp and fighting on ice. This was before his “incident”.




















