As the dust settles.....
by Hooks Orpik on May 13, 2010 7:00 AM EDT
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PrintIf I know Penguins fans, it's even after the crushing blow of last night's elimination at the hands of the Montreal Canadiens, they want to know what's next.
Well, actually, they want to play the blame game, but someone else can do that. I have no use pointing out that Marc-Andre Fleury didn't make enough stops, the defense turned too many pucks over and were out of position, and the forwards didn't score enough. There's no singular reason, the team just didn't play well enough and didn't rise to the occasion, especially after some deep, deep playoff runs that might have left them with nothing in the tank.
So play blame game if you want, but I'm gonna look ahead and see what's next. You're invited, after the jump.
Now that the dust is settled, here's what the Penguins look like for next season, based strictly off who has contracts (line suggestions are my own).
Chris Kunitz - Sidney Crosby - AAAAAA
Pascal Dupuis - Evgeni Malkin - BBBBBB
CCCCCC - Jordan Staal - Tyler Kennedy
Mike Rupp - Maxime Talbot - Craig Adams
Healthy scratch: Eric Godard
--That's approx. $30.425 million spent on the salary cap (about 53.5% of the expected salary cap of again $56.8 million). And there's some major holes there. Can Eric Tangradi transition into an NHL job, on a winning team in a Top 6 role? What of Nick Johnson, Mark Letestu and Dustin Jeffrey, any chance they make it? Will the team look to bring back Matt Cooke? Most importantly: can they get some skill to play with Sid and Geno?
Alex Goligoski / DDDDDD
EEEEEE / FFFFFF
--That's $9.083 million spent, and a LOT of pieces to the puzzle to fill in there. Will Sergei Gonchar and/or Jordan Leopold be brought back? Is that even an economic option? Can Ben Lovejoy slide into the NHL lineup, after now three years of being a pro? Which free agents will Pittsburgh target here? There's a lot of questions.
Marc-Andre Fleury
This tandem will make $6.1 million, and it's no question they'll be the guys on the roster. The questions will be reserved for how Fleury will bounce back after a disappointing 2010 playoffs.
--
So, more or less, that's how we stand. The questions will be the same: can the Pens find enough skill up front to surround their great centers, and can they get enough reliable bodies on defense to keep it moving the other way, and can the goaltending hold? If Ray Shero learns from the mistakes the club on the ice made this spring, and satisfies all those questions, the Penguins should be in good shape for another deep run.
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I am not advocating a Jordan Staal trade, but I think the Pens wings this playoff were a weakness. Last year guys stepped up and performed above expecatations. That didnt happen this year. I hope Shero can find a way to get a little more talent on the wings for Sid and Geno.
Trade Staal and we never win a Cup again. The bottom line is Geno HAS to be put at wing. I know he’s not the most comfortable there, but the fact is he is that when it comes to center small-number responsibility (i.e. faceoffs) he is absolutely awful. The guy was born to be a winger, and unfortunately was bred wrongly as a center. He needs to be moved to Sid or Staal’s wing.
by lostprophetRJX on May 13, 2010 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd.
I’ve been saying that Geno should be on Sid’s wing for as long as I’ve cared about the Penguins. Admittedly I started caring about them when a kid from my hometown was drafted by them, so I’m not a long-term fan, but Geno is a great player who plays like a winger even though he’s positioned at center.
And, well, Crosby needs someone on his wing who can (a) keep up with him skating and (b) actually finish his setups.
Trading Staal would be a huge mistake, though. And putting Geno on the wing would give Staal more time that he richly deserved.
Look upon my 62% faceoff win rate, ye mortals, and despair!
Although thinking about trading either is absurd, I’d trade Geno before Staal.
While some have said (and I totally get their point) that the strength of our 3rd line is amazing, I really think Geno should be Staal’s wing on the 2nd line. I think keeping Sid and Geno separated puts more pressure on teams to defend 2 lines.
Put it this way: I wouldn’t be sad to see any Ukrainians leave us at the moment. Like genomachine-O, I want at least one really good winger. (And as much as I enjoy looking at and listening to Bill Guerin, I know he can’t quite cut it.) It’ll be interesting to see what decisions Shero makes this summer.
"Darling, you say Brooks Orpik 'checked' that guy. He did not 'get under him and put him into the wall'."--Beloved to me, Winter 2007
Cocktails With the Penguins, where Pens fans toast victories and drown defeats.
Well thought i’d say this here. I’d like to throw out some thank you’s to faces that wont put on the flightless bird jersey next year.
Gonchar- you were a whipping boy your first year here. I think the next few might have been the best years of your career. This past year made it evident that the end is closer than we may have thought. Its still going to be hard to watch him go, but I wish him luck.
Guerin- I wish the Pens could have got him 10 years ago. he became a fan favorite (and mine) almost instantly and was crucial in last years playoff run. Judging from interviews after the game, I think Billy G played his last game in the NHL. I’m proud that it was in a Pens uniform.
Fedotenko- I’ll try my best to be nice….He was great in the playoffs last year. Goodbye
Cookie- You do somethings that drive me crazy. I also understand that his skills are very underrated by most. He was one of the most consistent Pens all year. Hes been great during his time here. I hope hes willing to take a 2 year deal to stay with the Pens.
Ponikarovski- wait the Penguins have Ponikarovski?
I think Eaton will be back next year and theres a chance for Leopold too.
Couple Things
1. Mark Letestu did not look out of place as a 3rd line center and the Pens need a big winger to go to the net with either Sid or Geno. I know it was 3 years ago but you can’t underestimate what Staal and Geno did together that first year. Maybe they should at least try Staal at the wing next year.
2. Gonchar and Gogo are offensive defenseman who are SERIOUS defensive liabilities. Gonchar is a proven veteran who runs that power-play, but is old and expensive. Gogo is young and cheap, but an unproven commodity. Looks like this year the Pens are going to have to make some choices and I don’t see how they bring Sarge back unless it is at a MAJOR discount and I don’t see Gonchar taking less money at this stage in his career especially since he already has a ring.
3. I love Billy G. as a guy’s guy, but it is BEYOND clear that his time as a top 6 forward are O-V-E-R over. I would bring him back at just above League minimum and give him a 4th line slot with PP time, I don’t think he will take that so I see retirement in his future.
4. Cooke needs to be brought back, but he may have made himself to expensive with his playoff showing.
5. I would bring back both Eaton and Leopold but under no circumstances does the Gogo-Leopold tandem stay together. That is one of the worst pairings I have ever seen! Eaton doesn’t make the sexy plays, but he makes all the right ones and if he leaves we will be sorry.
6. Poni and Tenks, adios amigos!
7. Tangredi is seen as the future of Pittsburgh’s wingers, can he handle the pressure? Remember the Pens traded Ryan Whitney to get him, so how good can he really be?
Life is about one simple choice, get busy living or get busy dying
I agree with most of yor points.
For #1, though, I think Geno goes to the wing and Staal stays at center.
Hey, an out is an out - unless you're Mario, in which case it's probably two outs. -UtesFan89
Hard work always beats talent if talent doesn't work hard.
Agreed
Staal handles the defensive responsibilities and the other things that come with the center position much better than Geno. I’d love to see Geno on Sid’s wing more consistently though, something we saw alot more of against the Habs
The glare of the spotlight is harsh, and the pressure that success breeds immense. We revere our heroes, but expect much. And criticism can come as easily as praise.
Personally I thought Letestu played GREAT hockey for a guy thrown in the mix. He reminded me of what TK can do when he was really on his game (which I havn’t seen too much from TK recently). I think He can easily fill a 3rd/4th line center role.
I would take Leo over Eaton, without factoring economics of the situation.
Cooke, I could take or Leave, he does his job, and plays well, but he takes a lot of stupid penalties. I’d like to find a tough guy who is just slightly better at managing his brain.
Lovejoy should be up next year. He has all the tools, lets give him a chance to use it for a full season.
Not enough money to plug the many holes
Tangradi almost HAS to assume a Top 6 role.
For everyone who says the Pens “don’t have a winger to play with Sid and Geno” that is technically incorrect. They have ONE: Kunitz. And he makes about $4M/year.
Top free agent RE-sign priority: Matt Cooke.
Fills his role exceedingly well, and shouldn’t be too pricey.
Top free agent TARGET: A defensive defenseman.
Great write up Hooks. Surprisingly enough, I am not at as upset as I thought I would be after last night’s loss, maybe because it was so lop-sided? Anyhow, I would like to see Cooke back and he is the only NECESSARY piece that I see. Gonchar would be nice to have back but at a much cheaper price. Gogo is still young and has some areas to improve. I am undecided on Leopold as he had his bright moments as well as the ugly ones.
I think it is important to maintain Staal on his own line as a center. The Pens do not want to become a 2 line team and I fear that is what would happen.
I think Letestu has a shot at making the team but he has to show up in training camp and I also think it is important to resign Lovejoy and have him on the big club next year as well.
Guerin, Feds, and Poni need to go. I love Guerin for what he has done but the money is better spent elsewhere.
Surprisingly enough, I am not at as upset as I thought I would be after last night’s loss, maybe because it was so lop-sided?
It’s because we all knew it was coming, even though we didn’t think it would be 2nd round against the #8. The defensive liablities and PP struggles all year were indications that we were in trouble in the playoffs.
D needs to be a priority
While the forwards from the Cup team remained largely intact, the ‘09-’10 Pens were missing two key elements: Hal Gill and the Piece. Their replacements? Jay McKee, Jordan Leopold and GoGoSplat.
Let all the UFA D-men go, promote Lovejoy and try to find 2 reasonably good puck absorbers.
I’m dead serious when I say that Geno and Sid should be playing together. Staal has proven that he’s more than your average 3rd line center and his line can be defensively AND offensively productive.
My theoretical lines:
Kunitz – Crosby – Malkin
Dupuis – Staal – Kennedy(perhaps switching Kunitz and Dupuis, idk)
Tangradi – cheap John Madden type – find another Kennedy type
Rupp – Talbot – Adams
shrug
Who Dat?™
Tough call.
What you have here looks like the Brian Burke setup of top-six skill / bottom-six grinders. Obviously, he’s had success with this format, but The Pens have won in the past using Crosby, Malkin, and Staal all as centres, and I’m inclined to believe that they could do it again. Having such awesome talent at centre for three lines is something that most teams are not prepared to handle.
"Defense! Defense! Common! Do you call that blowing!?"
I agree. I believe that having strong centers on three lines is a luxury and Pittsburgh needs to keep it that way. Staal is definitely better than a 3rd line center, but I think he fits that roll perfectly for the Pens.
Fleury
Well you guys might not want to play the blame game but I will. Let me remind you I have been following the Pens for 40 years (since their existence) my dad and I would walk to the arena and buy tickets that night and sit on the glass, oh the memories. A lot of blame to go around but the biggest of all is Fleury he stinks and stunk all year, inconsistent does not describe his play. The first goal last night was terrible a pee wee goalie would have stopped that. I am tired of hearing he won the cup last year he did not the team won it for him, and yes the team is to blame this year also they didn’t have it in the end. Fleury my friends never had it all season and certainly didn’t have it in the playoffs. Even the other night when the Pens won 2-1 that goal he gave up at the end was terrible that should have been a shutout and that’s how I would describe his play all year as terrible. So go ahead and chastise me all you want the truth is the truth he stunk and rarely gave the Pens a chance to win. I am not saying he is done but he either is hurt has personal issues going on or has just lost it. Rebound after rebound letting easy goals in that is not a Stanley cup winning goalie. Don’t get me wrong I will still support him and the team just telling you what I saw and most of the hockey world saw also.
A Goalie's #s are strongly influenced by the D in front of him...
Fleury doesn’t deserve that much blame. He was hung out to dry all series. No goalie will consistently stop glorious opportunity after glorious opportunity. And when the D continually breaks down, and the goalie starts to expect to get hung out…
Similarly Halak doesn’t deserve all the credit. Certainly he has played exceedingly well, but Jacques Martin is a wizard and employed an excellent system in front of him. Want proof? He has Canadiens fans thinking of Hal “I’m the Slowest Player in the NHL” Gill as a Norris Trophy winner.
Fleury was better last year b/c the D in front of him was better.
by Diomedes7 on May 13, 2010 9:14 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Agrred
So the first goal last night was the d’s fault?
by slick wrister on May 13, 2010 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions
1st goal was a bad goal its on Fleury. But 1 goal isnt enough to dismiss a 25 year old #1 overall picks career. The team played terrible. I know its easy to see a goal go by a goalie and blame it on him. But theres more that goes into, you just have to understand what your watching.
by genomachine-O on May 13, 2010 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Ya the team collectively played the worst game i’ve ever seen. That first PP we had i just couldn’t beleive we set the PP up twice but them fumbled the puck or made a terrible pass to ruin it, i don’t know who Geno was passing to he must have been on drugs hallucinating.
by JasonGoPens on May 13, 2010 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions
HuH?
What I am watching? I am not being smart here but I have watched and played hockey for years (40 plus) I think I know what I am watching a goalie who does not play positional hockey and thinks his athleticism can save everything. What I watched this year was a goalie who “didn’t know whether to cry or wind his watch” agreed the defense and team was not the caliber it was last year. But a stanley cup winning goalie has to make saves when its crucial and MAF did not do that all year. He was pathetic. I am not saying he should be gone but mark my words if this guy doesn’t start playing positional hockey his career will not be that long. He stunk bottom line maybe he’s hurt maybe he has some personal things going on I don’t know all I know is soft soft goals and not playing his position trying to do to much with the puck just stop it and keep it out of the back of the net.
Get some rest boys and come back in September renewed. GO Pens I still love ya and always will.
by slick wrister on May 13, 2010 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Any player needs to have that basic talent first. There are some things that can be taught, and 10/10 if I have a choice between two young players who are equally effective, but one with smarts and the other with talent, I pick talent. That smart game—here, positioning—can be taught. Not athleticism.
And Fleury has backstopped a team to a SCC. He wasn’t good enough against MTL, but I’d bet any team outside of New York City and Raleigh and Sunrise (probably someone else there too, I’m sure I’m forgetting someone) would swap goalies for Fleury in a heartbeat.
Cидни Kросби: Александр Oвечкин, он твой папа теперь
Capitals Coming: for Capitals fans who can bear reading something less intelligent than a story at Japers' Rink
by red army line on May 13, 2010 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions
wow a caps fan with a better defensive play than either team had all playoffs nice……hey I tried….im no dane cook…..ha
by genomachine-O on May 13, 2010 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Your probably right. It’s just frustrating to see him make some really, really tough saves only to let in soft goals because of his poor positioning.
by packallday555 on May 13, 2010 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions
i dont think the 1st goal last night was a positioning thing, maybe a technique issue, but thats different.
by genomachine-O on May 13, 2010 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Certainly teams will try to expose any weakness (coughgame7capspenshighglovecough). I guess it’s a combination of the defense picking up the slack (like MTL’s D blocking shots = fewer rebounds, of which Halak is prone to give into the slot) and the goalie reading the shot better.
Cидни Kросби: Александр Oвечкин, он твой папа теперь
Capitals Coming: for Capitals fans who can bear reading something less intelligent than a story at Japers' Rink
by red army line on May 13, 2010 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Agree with you. The defense stunk, but Maf from last year would have made the majority of those saves. I agree with the slick wrister comments. I’ve also been following hockey for many years. I know when the goalie is let down by the defense. The defense is not as good as it should be, but neither was MAF this year. Let’s hope for a better season next time.
Fleury wasnt good last night, he was under par all season. I just think that goes hand and hand with a poor defense.
by genomachine-O on May 13, 2010 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions
So the team won game four against Philly last year, when the team gave up over forty shots on goal and over six PPs?
by SlayerGhaleon on May 13, 2010 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions
I think you may be right here. Fluery was horribley inconsistent all season long. I realize the defense in front of him wasn’t very good all year but he is supposed to be one of the top goalie’s in the league right? He needed to step up and make some those saves. In each of the 4 games we lost to the Canadiens, Fluery played pretty poorly. Yesterday’s game was a horrible game for him. The first one he let in was awfully soft, as well as the second. Hard to blame him for the Cammalleri one timer but Moen’s shorty was terrible. Fluery also was horrible game 6.
Again, I realize the defense in front of him didn;t play very well all year but if he really is a top goalie in the league then he needs to step up and make the saves.
by packallday555 on May 13, 2010 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Again, I realize the defense in front of him didn;t play very well all year but if he really is a top goalie in the league then he needs to step up and make the saves.
I’m sorry, but it just doesn’t work that way long-term. Single games, yes, even portions of a season, yes, but long-term, the defense really does dictate how good the goalie can be. Fleury is mediocre mostly because the defense wasn’t any good. That’s the long and short of it.
Should have phrased that better. I meant he needed to step it up in the playoffs. He just let in way too many soft ones.
by packallday555 on May 13, 2010 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions
i agree put people will always point out specific weak goals and say thats the norm with Flower. he gives up some softies no doubt. But at this point in his career hes come up with the big stops more often than he has failed too.. He had a bad series…so did the whole team.
by genomachine-O on May 13, 2010 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Exactly. I feel often that I have to keep the two Fleury sides away from each other, because I sit almost smack dab on the fence about the guy. It’s not that I can’t make up my mind about him, but he seems to be either a love him or hate him guy, and I think he’s pretty much just okay with the physical talent to be a whole lot better if he or his coaches could somehow harness it. I do worry that it might be like trying to catch lightning in a bottle, though.
Essentially, I disagree with the people who think he’s elite, and I disagree with the people who think he’s crap. :)
I agree, Justin
I think, however, that MAF could BECOME elite if he has better D in front of him—not just b/c it would help his #s (w/c it would)—but also b/c it will help his confidence.
When you know you are going to get hung out again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again…it wears on you.
And that’s why D should be Shero’s priority >>>> wingers.
Without an improved D you ALSO run the risk of permanently ruining your $5M/year netminder’s psyche.
The 1st line will be the same: Crosby-Dupuis-Kunitz
I’d like to see the 2nd line be: Staal-Malkin-Tangradi
With a new center for the 3rd line—maybe Adams, Rupp, Talbot, Letestu—or maybe an INexpensive FA. RE-sign Matt Cooke and you’re set (w/ TK at RW).
We already have plenty of 4th liners….
Then, Ray Shero can focus on the D.
yea I’m with you I think Im somewhere in the middle as well. But find myself in situations every single day at work having to defend Fleury. So maybe I talk myself into being more of a Fleury guy than I really am. As long as hes good enough to win, thats fine with me. That didnt happen this year, but I’m not going to say hes a terrible goalie. the 2 SCF appearances would suggest otherwise. Lets hope Flower clears his head this offseason and comes back mentally fresh. I think the mental part of the game is Fleurys biggest issue.
by genomachine-O on May 14, 2010 7:40 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree with this part of Malsy’s post:
“Let all the UFA D-men go, promote Lovejoy and try to find 2 reasonably good puck absorbers.” Except maybe keep Leopold to run the power play. If he’ll sign cheap.
Fleury isn’t going anywhere, don’t waste your breath. Neither is Staal. The centers are locked up 1-2-3 and will be that way as long as Shero is the GM.
Letestu was great, and he’s welcome to center the 4th line on occaision, but I like guys who can play wing also to do that job on a permanent basis ala Adams, Talbot, Rupp. (because it’s not a permanent type position)
I think Rupper started to show signs of wear by the late season/postseason. I’d like to find a younger Rupper if it can be done.
WIth the exception of Brooks our Dmen are SOFF SOFF SOFF like marshmallows. I don’t want to see Goligoski next year trade his fumbling bumbling ass away please for the love of god.
We'll give you Schenn and Grabovski for Staal!
I kid, I kid…
"Defense! Defense! Common! Do you call that blowing!?"
yea sounds good, cuz that last trade worked out so well. how about the rights to Ponikarvoski for Caputi?
by genomachine-O on May 13, 2010 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions
We have a no refund policy.
Just ask Darcy Regier, who gave us a 2nd rounder for Dominic Moore.
"Defense! Defense! Common! Do you call that blowing!?"
Center Strength - One More Try
Shero was lauded for sticking with 3 strong centermen last year as Pens hoisted the cup.
Now all I hear is that Pens need wingers. Trade Staal.
I think Shero WILL give the Center Strength tactic another year.
looking at the numbers:
Untouchable or not replaceable at the 2010-11 price tag —
Sid 8.7, Staal 4.0, Dupuis 1.4, Talbot 1.05, Kennedy .725
Orpik 3.75
Overpaid?:
Geno 8.7 (2008-9 version not overpaid … 09-10 version vastly overpaid
Does he get back to it, or does he prove to be too moody to be worth the price tag)
Letang: 3.5 … offensive potential is off the charts if he learns that his wrister is
more effective than his slapper
Gogo: 1.833 … he really regressed after a great start
CLEARLY OVERPAID:
Kunitz 3.725 b/c he forechecks hard? Not enough for my taste
No Comment
Adams .55 /Godard .75 are worth price tag … replacing them would probably be more expensive
2010-11
Geno needs to raise his game like Sid, if not I would trade him over Staal.
Could get a top-flight winger AND defenseman for 8.7
This is not the early 90s. Pens can keep the Center-3 together IF
they can develop from within.
I would rather see them suffer through the growing pains of Tangradi, Letestu, Conner … then to see a merry-go-round of proven but fading players (Guerin, Feds, Poni,) try to be grafted onto Sid & Geno’s lines
Some consolation:
If Poni goes out and gets $3.5M – which isn’t bad for a 20-goal scorer – will you feel better about Kunitz? He’s overpaid, but not TERRIBLY.
"Defense! Defense! Common! Do you call that blowing!?"
Kunitz had a bad game last night. When hes healthy though hes the Pens 4th best forward after the big 3. I think hes a good fit for Sid. You dont need snipers on both sides. You need someone that will retrieve pucks, bang bodies and open up space. He does that great. kuni really changed my mind this year, hes a good player.
by genomachine-O on May 13, 2010 9:38 AM EDT up reply actions
I’d rather have kunitz at what he’s making than Poni at any price at this point. He played the entire playoffs like it was the preseason. Disgusting effort. Having said that…I thought it would work out famously when the move was done…
You will never get fair return in a trade for Geno. Hes going to be the better player no matter who you trade him for. IMO whoever get the best player get the best of the trade. Its not going to happen anytime soon.
by genomachine-O on May 13, 2010 9:40 AM EDT up reply actions
whoever get the best player get the best of the trade.
i don’t think that’s true at all in the modern NHL, not with the inherent value of draft picks and cap space.
by Natty Bumppo on May 13, 2010 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions
yea but draft picks are hit-or-miss. Players of Genos skill and caliber dont come around very often.
by genomachine-O on May 13, 2010 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Then how much do you value cheap young talent that merely doesn’t serve to be a “backup” and offers (hopefully) a bit more consistency in game? I mean, similar deal with an Alexander Semin or an Alex Kovalev (though Geno > either of them), with regards to skill and potential to take over a game any night.
Cидни Kросби: Александр Oвечкин, он твой папа теперь
Capitals Coming: for Capitals fans who can bear reading something less intelligent than a story at Japers' Rink
by red army line on May 13, 2010 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions
I think it is time for Gonchar and Guerin to move on – sad to say, but it is time. Feds and Poni need to move on as well. I’d like to see Letestu move up to the roster as well as Lovejoy. We need to acquire a defensive defenceman to settle the D. I think we should keep Gogo, personally. Growing pains, for sure, but I still see the talent and the promise. Like Petesburgher, I see a glaring need for a top flight winger and if anyone had to be traded to get it, then I would NOT recommend Staal. I see him as more critical to the team than Geno. I love Geno, so this isn’t against him specifically. I just can’t see the centre model working with the current amount of money sitting there. Put Letestu in the centre on that lower line, Staal on the second line….I could go on and on. It doesn’t feel good to recommend Geno go, but again, I can’t see the future if we spend that much down the centre to the extent that rotating wingers are needed.
So...WHAT, exactly, was wrong w/ Geno ALL year?
Rossi has said shoulder injury, but what about his head?
What about his heart?
What about his legs and lungs?
He didn’t seem “right” all year.
Last year, I thought he CLEARLY should have won the Hart.
This year…not so much.
Anyone know?
The only thing I can think of is that puffy-lipped girlfriend sucked his…energy.
He seems to pout when dosen’t score, he seems like a moody 13 year old girl on the ice this year. There have been bursts in certain games where he looked like he did last year but those were far and few between.
I have no idea what’s up with him but he needs to get his shit together and quit being a little girl.
by JasonGoPens on May 13, 2010 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions
I dont buy what everyone is saying that Malkin had been pouting all year. Hes a guy that when isnt getting the results he wants loses some confidence. He had a down year, but he played with gargage as linemates all year, complete garbage.
by genomachine-O on May 13, 2010 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Well you can blame the line mates, but they were just as trash last year. On top of that Crosby commands the other teams top d line, so Geno is always playing against the 3-4 dmen, you gotta step up playing against a lesser opponent.
by JasonGoPens on May 13, 2010 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions
Yea your right Talbot and Fedotenko play terrible in the playoffs last year. I said geno didnt have a good year. Being a little girl? your anger towards him sure seems to reverse that comparison.
by genomachine-O on May 13, 2010 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions
you’re gonna question a guy who just 11 months ago won the Conn Smyth?
by mcnulty4prez on May 13, 2010 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Ya i am, did you watch him this series, and even this season. I’m not saying get rid of him, i see what he can do, but why isn’t he doing it.
by JasonGoPens on May 13, 2010 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions
It was great and all when he won that but that’s in the past. There is no denying he had a drop-off this season. He took stupid penalties all year and only seemed to play hard every 4-5 games. The garbage line mates thing is an excuse. Crosby doesn’t have much more to work with and he did great.
I think Malkin should move back to wing with Crosby. He just isn’t a C. He is terrible on faceoffs, and he doesn’t play very good defense either. Why not put him on the wing with one of the best passer’s in the game? He has a wicked shot, and being out there with Crosby would make things difficult on opposing defenses. Plus, playing on the wing would limit his defensive expectations a bit as well.
by packallday555 on May 13, 2010 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Oops meant “defensive responsibilities”, not “expectations”.
by packallday555 on May 13, 2010 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Comments like this are just so lazy. A person in the middle of a competitive and grueling physical contest makes a face that you don’t like so you question his effort or heart or character. You have no insight into another person’s character or drive when all you do is watch them play sports on TV.
It’s so easy to cite character issues when an athlete has a bad year. If he’s visibly frustrated, he’s a pouty child. If he’s stoic, he has no fire. People have bad years at their jobs. It does not sufficiently prove some kind of character flaw.
You are not empathic. Your posts and trollishness indicate nary a hint of insight or attention paid to the people around you. Clearly, you are the man we must ALL trust to look into someone’s eyes through your TV and from miles away and see his very soul.
by ThisYearsModel on May 13, 2010 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Interesting thought! Sensitive much? Last time I checked, people are allowed to develop their own opinions and in today’s world, nobody is allowed to have a bad year at work! I don’t know what disillusion world you live it! Athletes are paid to perform, sometimes OVERPAID! If they can’t do it, they need to move on and not waste the fans’ time or MONEY! Because that is what it all boils down to isn’t it? Even your useless comment? MONEY! You’re paid to do a job. If you struggled…would you still be there? I don’t know you, I don’t care to know you, but something tells me the answer is a resounding NO! Don’t be so sensitive and the world will be a much better place!
by Wags24 on May 13, 2010 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Neat.
If people perform poorly at work, do you assume it’s a character issue? If so, you’re guilty of lazy thinking. That’s all I’m saying.
Also, if I did struggle at my job, my employer would not jump to the conclusion that I lacked character. My employer would not jump to that conclusion because that is a poor assumption to make. I’d get the guidance I needed to get back on track and become successful again. Same goes for the people who I supervise. So, what was your point again?
Lastly, good job trying to change the subject to Malkin’s performance. I’m not defending his performance. I’m pointing out how absurd it is to assume that you know something about an athlete’s desire just from watching him play.
by ThisYearsModel on May 13, 2010 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Honestly, I don’t care what Malkin’s issue is. I don’t think he played that bad. I will take MALKIN on a bad day over 95% of the league. He’s human. He can show a sour face every once in a while if he want’s to…that’s life. I was attacking you attacking someone else on here. You say their comment was useless…at least they were talking about hockey. You were talking about their OPINION! You want pathetic…that’s pathetic! Ohhh, and guess what, this may sting a bit…but as a FAN, Diomedes7 can say whatever he/she pleases about players. Whether it’s jumping to conclusion about their character/heart/whatever! You attacked them…not the comment!
by Wags24 on May 13, 2010 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions
You were talking about their OPINION!
I won’t pass judgement on the other things said, but I feel like that’s the reason why we’re posting here in the first place—to discuss opinions. Now, maybe TYM was more attacking than normal, but he/she has a point. We can’t really say a hockey player, who has guts and talents far exceeding any of ours—combined probably as well—a “pouty child” or similar. Especially a guy one year removed from 2nd in Hart/Pearson (Lindsay)/Ross/Smythe/Cup.
Cидни Kросби: Александр Oвечкин, он твой папа теперь
Capitals Coming: for Capitals fans who can bear reading something less intelligent than a story at Japers' Rink
by red army line on May 13, 2010 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions
You’re right…but that’s how it gets handled? Sad! That’s all I am saying!
“I’m pointing out how absurd it is to assume that you know something about an athlete’s desire just from watching him play.”
Why is this absurd? It’s what the media does every single day and we get paid to do it! It’s easy to attack somebody’s opinion of a player because, like he says, that requires LAZY THINKING! No thought process of his own. As I am sure this fella matriculates at some high class institution, I am quite certain they understand the value of his/her opinion when it comes to destroying someone’s thoughts!
“You are not empathic. Your posts and trollishness indicate nary a hint of insight or attention paid to the people around you”
Really? I would argue they were emphatic with their comments! To be quite honest!
by Wags24 on May 13, 2010 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions
i'm guessing injury + fatigue
I’ve always been a Geno defender here, and I won’t stop now. My guess is that his down year was a combination of injury and fatigue; the theme of this season, for me, was the team collectively running out of gas as the season wore along, and I don’t think Geno was any different.
And I don’t buy all the pouting/dogging it talk some Pens fans trot out. Beyond tiredness and injury, I think he just has a different style of play that can appear nonchalant. As I recall, we drafted a French-Canadian guy back in 1984 who had a similar “gliding” style to his skating, and who came in with questions about his work ethic. And that worked out OK for us.
P is for Latrobe.
by holiday park on May 13, 2010 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Well, he has always had “conditioning issues” since he came into the league. He had an off year. It happens. In fact, the whole team outside of Sid and Dupers had an off year in my mind. All this talk of trading his is for the birds. No one will be saying it when he is hovering around 100 points next season. It has to be frustrating to have all the guys that don’t work on Sids line be shifted down to Geno’s. And, I know everyone has been hard on Tenks (deservedly so), but Geno’s production disappeared when he was pulled from the lineup. I think he is the type of guy that needs consistent linemates that know where to be and where Geno will be. He’ll bounce back.
Put on your dancin' shoes.
Justin, if that question is for me, I didn’t mean he had an issue w/ his heart other than conditioning, as in “heart and lungs.”
From what I saw, this wasn’t just a matter of an “off year” or suboptimal wingers (he had them last year, too), there is something more. I’m NOT one saying “trade him.” That’s crazy talk. I’m just wondering WTF was up w/ him this year b/c he did not come close to resembling the Malkin we saw last year.
Off season FA issues
I don’t see the winger issue being that big of a deal. The Pens basically rolled out the same group that they had in ‘09, meaning there wasn’t a big dropoff talent-wise in ’10.
The reason the Pens struggled this postseason is simple: the defense was just average. It’s the area where the team MUST improve. While some fans are calling for the heads of GoGo and Letang, the simple truth is that the Pens are in an excellent position to improve their D while keeping the two young bucks.
(yes, Shero will keep them, because puck-moving defensemen are very, very rare, and you cannot argue that GoGo has trouble moving the puck)
We have 3 guys signed for next year. We need 4 more to start the season. Let’s assume Lovejoy makes it (i think that’s a pretty safe bet at this point). That means we need 3 more guys, 2 of them in a top-6 role.
Eaton and Leopold should both fetch around $2 mil per year contracts. That’s high for Eaton and low for Leopold, but both have age/injury issues. I think Shero will re-sign one of them. Leopold would probably be that guy, depending on his concussion issue.
So that’s 1 more guy right there. 2 more are needed, probably via FA.
The FA market for defense this year could make or break the Pens. A lot of folk have tossed around Anton Volchenkov as a potential pick-up, but he’ll command $4-5 mil a year, which is obviously too much for the Pens. Another big name is Dan Hamhuis from Nashville. He’s also in line for a big raise, something around $3.5-4 million a year. Personally, I think Shero will do all he can to sign Hamhuis. The guy is a solid D-man, one who can provide extra grit and toughness that the Pens currently lack. How many times did Ottawa and Montreal skate in the slot untouched? That has to be addressed.
There are other FA out there, but those two seem to be the biggest names. I think the Pens need to focus on Hamhuis (or someone who plays a similar type of game).
That leaves a 7th defensemen, and we’ve seen Shero pick up solid guys to fill that spot before. I assume he can do the same, since he and his scouts obviously know more about potential 7th D-men than a schmuck like me.
So let’s go with a perfect situation (i.e. Hamhuis signs for roughly $3.5 mil per year. Leopold around $2.5 mil, etc)
Orpik-Letang
Leopold-Hamhuis
Gogo-Lovejoy
7th
I like that. We really, really need a good D-man this year to replace Sarge, and i fully trust Shero to go out and get that.
Oh, and the silver lining of losing to Montreal? That awful powerplay will be revamped, and hopefully Mike Yeo will be gone. seriously, teams knew how to stop the PP in November and the coaching staff did nothing to address it. that’s inexcusable.
And finally, let’s not throw players under the bus. this team brought you a Stanley Cup 11 months ago. accept that they won’t win it every year, and congratulate any montreal fans you run across. their team played a fantastic series.
What about McKee i like him alot more than Leopold, and especially Gogo.
by JasonGoPens on May 13, 2010 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions
But I don’t think Bylsma likes McKee more than Leopold. And that will no doubt be part of the decision.
I do wonder, though: we need a stay-at-home defenseman, and those don’t usually come with much offensive prowess. And those are exactly the ones that Bylsma is less satisfied with (unless they’re Orpik). The trick will be to find someone who is positionally sound and hockey-smart, and to convince Bylsma that not every player needs to jump into the offensive zone on every play.
Or something like that.
Leafs fan living large in the Pitt and pretending like the drought is over. Go Pens!
Until last night
The pp was the best in the playoffs. And hasn’t been bad since Sarge came back in January.
I thought Leopold did well for himself, perhaps playing his way into a new contract in Pittsburgh. the main problem with signing him would be the concussion issues. McKee is a good 7th dman, but I think he could sign for more money and get more PT somewhere else.
and yeah I remembered that the Pens’ PP was rolling, but I think that was more of Letang finding his shot in the postseason. how many of his 5 goals came on the PP?
overall, the PP sucked all year. they could never sustain pressure or keep the puck in consistently, and those things are major, major problems.
by mcnulty4prez on May 13, 2010 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions
That was a decieveing stat because they went 4 for 5 in the first game of the Montreal series. Their PP was just what we thought it was. Terrible just like all year.
Put on your dancin' shoes.
Actually if you look at the PP
from the end of January on, it was something like 20%, and it was 30% in the playoffs. The “crap powerplay” was just that bad in January and before that the stats never recovered.
The deceit was in how bad the numbers made it look, not the other way around.
So if you take away the part where the PP was crap then it looks good? Well fantastic. If you take away all the games MAF looked bad he had a great season too. Take away all the games we lost to Jersey and Washington and the Pens were a 2 seed in the playoffs. The deceit was in saying we had a 30% PP unit because one of 13 games we hit 80% and hit 20% or less in most of the rest of the games. It is misleading to eliminate stats by taking away only the best or worst case scenarios. If you take the top outlier away you have to remove the bottom outlier as well. It’s like when people used to say if you took Willie Parker’s longest run away his YPC went down. No shit. If you take away my mortgage I have a bunch of extra cash.
Put on your dancin' shoes.
The point is that the power play was more than productive for the second half of the season and the whole playoff, regardless of your amateur, petulant assessment the day after the Pens lost.
I get it, you’re disappointed, but the fact remains that the personnel and coaches put up excellent power play percentages since January. Yes they were the same folks that put the under 10% numbers up the first half of the season, but to say they’re incapable is just dumb. They outperformed every team in the playoffs on the PP. Regardless of the two games that the PP came up empty.
I didn’t say they were incapable. I said they were terrible. Which their regular season 17% PP rate would indicate. Their playoff rate ended up at 26% which was best for third so far this year and best that was remaining. I simply stated that one game raised that to a deceiving level. Only once in the playoffs did they score more than one PP goal. They had an 0-6 night last night and a 1-9 night earlier. The PP sucked except for game one in the series. It stunk most of the year. So you can talk about how great they were since january and in the playoffs but the fact remains that a few more PP goals and they would still be in this race.
Put on your dancin' shoes.
that a few more PP goals and they would still be in this race
The Pens’ PP did do better than the #1 regular season power play by over 10%, for what that’s worth…it happens. I don’t know if you read Behind The Net consistently (link) but basically they’ve been running a series about how the Habs’ win over the Caps (and I guess this would extend to the Pens as well) was more or less pure luck in small sample size. I don’t buy it completely, but I think 7/10 series at least Pens win.
Cидни Kросби: Александр Oвечкин, он твой папа теперь
Capitals Coming: for Capitals fans who can bear reading something less intelligent than a story at Japers' Rink
by red army line on May 13, 2010 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t understand how they can call this all luck. Not one bit. It makes absolutely no sense and I hope Behind the Net is not a credible source.
by Wags24 on May 13, 2010 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I see that site, I wouldn’t exactly call anything on SB Nation a credible source.
by Wags24 on May 13, 2010 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I digress...
Judging by this type of resume…credibility is apparent! I was certainly wrong on the point!
by Wags24 on May 13, 2010 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions
THIS type of resume...
His writing has appeared in the Wall Street Journal, New York Times, San Francisco Chronicle, National Post, Globe and Mail and Toronto Star, as well as on ESPN.com, CNNSI.com, MLB.com, Puck Prospectus and Protrade. He has also worked as a statistical analyst for professional teams and agents in the four major sports.
by Wags24 on May 13, 2010 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions
What about Deryk Engelland? He and GoGo played well together in WB/S. What is his time frame for moving up to the big pens?
He’s another guy who could come in as the 7th guy. i dunno what GMRS will do, but I hope he gets that big, solid d-man first. that seems much more important than a high scoring winger IMO
by mcnulty4prez on May 13, 2010 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions
i just dont think Engelland is the answer. maybe a 7th, but even then I’m not sold.
by genomachine-O on May 13, 2010 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions
And how exactly can you be sure? He’s never been given much of a shot. The games he’s played, he played well. Heads up, moving the puck, defensively sound. I dont know how you can doubt him…you haven’t seen enough of him.
by Wags24 on May 13, 2010 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ve never been a fan of a fighting defenseman. Its really throws off the D parings. Its not like there are 11 other defenseman dressed. Just my opinion.
by genomachine-O on May 14, 2010 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Guerin retire. Poni and Feds happy trails. Gonchar only at a significant less money and short term (which he probably won’t agree) Eaton, yes. Kunitz depends on amount. Cooke yes.
A few thoughts.
There’s another factor that is being ignored; behind the bench.
The architects of the defense, offense, power play and penalty kill need to seriously re-evaluate their strategy and preparation.
Someone here suggested a while back that the Pens didn’t make adjustments to teams or even between periods. Some others countered that Bylsma was a Cup Winning coach and knew what to do. He didn’t do it for whatever reason.
Did they think this team could just skate and win? From the war room preparation, it looks that way.
This team became fairly predictable. Other teams knew it but for whatever reason, the coaching didn’t adjust.
The power play stopped being a power play in early January but nothing changed.
Teams that ran a “full-court press” against the Pens were successful; those who played traditional hockey, lost.
Too many “set-ups” for finesse plays to Sidney. When that stopped for a while, others started scoring.
Too many low percentage shots from way, way too far out.
They had trouble keeping the puck in the offensive zone when the opponents cleared it to the blue line.
No one in front of the opposing goalie. Because of that, goalies like Halak could see nearly every shot. Was Halak that good or could any goalie with an unobstructed view stop nearly all the shots? We may see in the Habs next series.
Good hitting and digging on the boards but not enough in-fighting in front of the net.
Overall passing the puck was atrocious.
Puck handling was pathetic once they fell behind.
No compensation against the trap.
Too many soft goals allowed regardless of a porous “D.” It seemed when Fleury was on, the "D’ played well but when he got flustered the “D” couldn’t adjust.
Too many lackluster periods, possibly thinking, “We’ll get ’em in the third!”
Too many teams with less talent took advantage of these problems and won while Pittsburgh played “Their Game” and lost.
Bylsma and Shero need to consider better game preparation, attitude and desire. These players may be pros but they’re still mostly kids that may need a little more maturity right now. Coaching has to recognize and fill that need.
Maybe there’s a lot more talent on the ice than behind the bench?
I agree with this, and i think we’ve all known it all along. I think that the fan part of your brain was not going to let your common sense part of your brain tell you that something was missing. As a fan you beleive blindly and ignore things that otherwise would make you think or even know that we weren’t going to the finals. We all know that this incarnation of the team wasn’t the same, weather it be the passion or drive, or the talent not showing up. We knew we weren’t winning the cup this year, we just didn’t want to accept it.
by JasonGoPens on May 13, 2010 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions
You’re right. There was always that nagging thought (this year) that “What if?” It wasn’t there last year. Cautious Confidence? Probably. But watching the same type of play for nearly every occasion got a little frustrating.
The same thing happened with the Steelers. They played one way all year and it seemed that Tomlin and his staff couldn’t or wouldn’t adjust.
by John Carter on May 13, 2010 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
I think you guys forget…we had a Coach not too long ago who was the stricter of the bunch. He FAILED miserably. One playoff run didn’t work with a talented team. Don’t destroy the team now. I don’t care who you are, you play as many games as the have with NO summers off (last two years), and you’re going to be tired. They looked tired…they’ll be back next year…
Sans GONCAHR, LEOPOLD, MCKEE, EATON, COOKE, TANKER, PONI, GUERIN…
It’s time to give some of the ‘A’ boys a shot! Let’s see what TANGRADI, SNEEP, LOVEJOY and LETESTU can do!
by Wags24 on May 13, 2010 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions
I think we should give Disco the benefit of the doubt for the forseeable future. If next season this kind of thing happens again, then yeah, that might be the problem. But right now no rash decisions need to be made regarding coaching.
by SlayerGhaleon on May 13, 2010 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m not saying to get rid of Dan. But his tactics and assistants need a re-look. In today’s NHL, you can’t stagnate. That’s what got semi-disciplinarian Therrien fired. He couldn’t change. Teams took advantage of his “It’s my way only” tack.
by John Carter on May 13, 2010 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions
Disco made plenty of tactical adjustments in this series. PopRocks had a great rundown of them over yonder.
by SlayerGhaleon on May 13, 2010 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Martin has very good regular season record…but a post season record of 46 wins and 54 losses. To win this year, he had to have good assistants for help, and he did despite less talent than Pittsburgh.
Dan didn’t.
by John Carter on May 13, 2010 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions
None of that makes any sense, but okay!
by SlayerGhaleon on May 13, 2010 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions
john carter- I dont think you can put that one on the coaches. If the pens didnt hit 3 post in game 6 no one is complaining about the coaching. Bylsma had won every series he coached in until last night. I dont think you can argue with his ways. The coach has no control over bad puck handling, bad passing…99% of your list.
by genomachine-O on May 13, 2010 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Too many soft goals allowed regardless of a porous "D." It seemed when Fleury was on, the "D’ played well but when he got flustered the "D" couldn’t adjust.
Good point here. That really is how it seems thinking back on the season.
Too many lackluster periods, possibly thinking, "We’ll get ’em in the third!"
Seriously. How many times did we absolutely pound a team one period, and then come out TERRIBLE the next period. It was so frustrating to watch too. Because when their playing well, it’s pretty clear they’re one of the best teams in the league, if not the best. Consistency was an issue all season long.
by packallday555 on May 13, 2010 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I still can’t believe people are still considering trading Staal. Are you kidding me? Your 300+ consecutive game player, who is your best defensive forward on the ice, and who can still score goals, all the while still trying to find and finesse his goal scoring abilities, a young guy and most likely the best Staal of them all. Come on.
I kind of want the playoffs to be over already just so we can see what moves are made in the off season. I hope every series from here on out is a quick and easy sweep.
Forwards wise, I hope Cooke signs again, and I think it’s time to see what the younger guys can bring, like Tangradi, Letestu, Conner. I’m kind of on the fence about Guerin. I think he can still play, but more as a third line guy.
As for defense, Gonchar is out. He’s over the hill. And Goligoski? I think this year has shown that he’s not an NHL player. Send him down, or get rid of him. Keep Leo, so he can fit into a solid role, and go out and find some free agents to fill the rest. I think McKee is great, but he is slow, however I wouldn’t mind if he stayed around as like a 3rd liner.
And yes, we definitely need to find a new PP coach. Yeo is out. Byslma gets the wake up call.
"Half the game is mental, the other half is being mental." - Jim McKenny
“And Goligoski? I think this year has shown that he’s not an NHL player. Send him down, or get rid of him”- that to me is just as ridiculous at trading Staal. This was his first full year in the NHL. How can you dismiss a player after 1 year. Gogo has a ton of talent, and at the beginning of the season was playing like one of the top dmen in the league. A lot of people here were campaigning for him to make TEAM USA. Just give up on him, come on dude your comments are usually more accurate than that.
by genomachine-O on May 13, 2010 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Gogo played pretty well when he was paired with McKee in the playoffs. I think he just really needs that “stay at home” partner. Leopold was not that partner for Gogo.
Beginners luck I call it. And what happens next year if he pulls the same kind of crap and mistakes?
"Half the game is mental, the other half is being mental." - Jim McKenny
He’s young. He has time to grow.
And for what it’s worth, he’s been better than Alex Pietrangelo in the NHL. That’s the consensus top prospect in hockey two years running now.
Cидни Kросби: Александр Oвечкин, он твой папа теперь
Capitals Coming: for Capitals fans who can bear reading something less intelligent than a story at Japers' Rink
by red army line on May 13, 2010 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions
“That’s the consensus top prospect in hockey two years running now.” Nope…he sure isn’t! You should choose your words wisely because Taylor Hall is the top prospect. Pietrangelo has already played NHL games…no longer a prospect. Hasn’t been since 2009 World Juniors! All eyes have been on Taylor Hall since then….more recently, you can throw Tyler Seguin into that mix! Not Pietrangelo. Year before Hall…Tavares was the top rated prospect…for about two years running! Pietrangelo has always been high, but he most certainly has not been the “consensus top prospect in hockey for two years running now.”
by Wags24 on May 13, 2010 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Hockey’s Future and THN have a 70 games barrier for “prospect graduation” or something like that. Pietrangelo still tops their lists. He hasn’t played many NHL games. I meant them. They’re the ones ranking Pietrangelo so high, and they are what I meant by “consensus.” I think the system they have is polling scouts, which sounds pretty good.
Cидни Kросби: Александр Oвечкин, он твой папа теперь
Capitals Coming: for Capitals fans who can bear reading something less intelligent than a story at Japers' Rink
by red army line on May 14, 2010 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Can’t send Go-Go down…he has a one-way contract! Unless of course, they put him on waivers and he clears! That’s unlikely!
by Wags24 on May 13, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Um, that’s not how it works.
He has to clear waivers because he’s played either 3 years or 70 games in the NHL. For young players, it has nothing to do with the status of his contract and everything to do with how long and active he’s been since signing his first contract.
I’m not sure I understand. When he signed is extension a little while back, it was a one way contract. The big rave was that everybody was excited to see how Gogo would do when he did not have to worry about being sent to WB so I am not sure what you are talking about. I understand the CBA has different length contracts for young guys; however, his entry-level status is no longer an issue since he survived his first, ELC.
by Wags24 on May 13, 2010 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions
In 2007-2008 there were 10 players with 1-way contracts that were exempt from waivers. Read the link in my last comment.
And why do I care that there were 10 players exempt from waivers? And considering Gogo is not on that list…he can be put on Waivers…correct?
by Wags24 on May 13, 2010 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I take that back. I’m still not sure where you are going with this…
by Wags24 on May 13, 2010 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I was confused by this too. EA Sports has the NHL waivers wrong.
One-way contract means at any level of play you make the same amount of money.
Two-way contract means you have different salaries depending on level, generally some amount in the AHL and around double that in the NHL.
Waivers works based on games played.
Cидни Kросби: Александр Oвечкин, он твой папа теперь
Capitals Coming: for Capitals fans who can bear reading something less intelligent than a story at Japers' Rink
by red army line on May 14, 2010 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s the exact same thing that happened to Miro Satan last season. The pens had no room for him under the cap and at the deadline, had to put him on waivers. He cleared waivers and they still had to space so they sent him to Wilkes-Barre…just like they could do with Gogo…if he cleared! Which is HIGHLY unlikely.
by Wags24 on May 13, 2010 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions
And Gogo was their best defenseman before Gonchar came back from the Koci-induced injury last season. The only reason he didn’t stay up was economics.
Well then what the hell happened to him this year? You can’t deny that more often than not fans were left shaking their heads or yelling his name in disbelief and frustration because he did something completely stupid or was too busy falling on his ass when he should have been playing defense.
"Half the game is mental, the other half is being mental." - Jim McKenny
Sophomore slump.
Leafs fan living large in the Pitt and pretending like the drought is over. Go Pens!
That doesn’t mean anything. By the logic of “it was his first full year” that means that you are generally expected and it is ok to have a shitty first year. I don’t buy that at all.
"Half the game is mental, the other half is being mental." - Jim McKenny
I don’t totally buy it, but I’d like to cut him a little more slack than you.
We had great expectations for him, and he fell short of those expectations. I think that’s a big part of the so-called “sophomore slump”: our perceptions of how well he should have done, versus how well he was actually able to live up to those expectations in the immediate.
Leafs fan living large in the Pitt and pretending like the drought is over. Go Pens!
yeo needs to go! our power play has been near the bottom for tooo long under his watchful eye!
by malkin in the middle on May 13, 2010 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions
IMPOSSIBLE To Trade STAAL!
For all of you who have never played the game, coached a game, or have been a part of a good hockey program, there is absolutely NO WAY the Penguins can trade Jordan Staal and here is why. Decent NHLers come every season. Guys who can come into the lineup and have an impact. Via free agency or through our own home-grown program down in Wilkes/Barre. Fact of the matter is, you don’t replace a defensive stalwart like Jordan Staal. Defensive-Offensemen don’t come around too often. To have a guy on the roster who can clearly score goals, is a good faceoff man, kills MAJOR penalties, and can match up against anyone the league has to offer…and for, let’s face it, a bargain rate! You’re not going to find it. Penguins have enough trouble defensively, the LAST thing you want to do is give up your best defensive-forward who can play on both sides of the ice.
It’s not going to happen and Shero knows this. So forget the TRADE STAAL tactic…if you want to be better defensively, you don’t look there!
by Wags24 on May 13, 2010 11:21 AM EDT reply actions
Absolutely! Staal is indispensable. Over the years we’ve had a few good defensemen but the best, Dave Burrows (in my 50 years of watching hockey, he was a better pure defenseman than Booby Orr. Bobby scored goals, Dave PREVENTED them) and Randy Carlyle were the two who stood out most.
Ulf and Murph were great but they had the benefit of a very solid team behind them.
Staal is in a league to be as great as Burrows and maybe get the reconition Davy never got.
Ask some (other) old timers about Burrows and compare him to Staal. Shero woiuld be committing defensive suicide to trade Staal.
by John Carter on May 13, 2010 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions
I dont think anyone is saying to trade Staal because hes not a good player. People just look at the $ the Pens have spent down the middle and the bag of pucks they have for wingers and Staal seems like the “logical” choice to make. Its harder to say we should trade guys that put up 100 pts a season. I dont think the Pens will trade Staal, but there are definetly a lot of upgrades needed.
by genomachine-O on May 13, 2010 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
STAAL is not the logical choice because of the reasons outlined above. He’s a shutdown offensive player and you’re not going to get that very often. He’s just a part of the offense as Crosby, just in a different role.
by Wags24 on May 13, 2010 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions
thats why i put logical in quotations it was sarcastic didnt know how else to do it. Its just like process of elimination 1. Crosby 2. Malkin 3. Staal. thats all i meant. Its not my opinion BTW I just trying to come up with a reason as to why people would want to trade staal.
by genomachine-O on May 13, 2010 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Good call! But you’re right, if it ever came down to it, that would be the order of top-3!
by Wags24 on May 13, 2010 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Maxim Lapierre
FA this year…would be better than COOKE!
by Wags24 on May 13, 2010 11:34 AM EDT reply actions
That jobber needs to stay away from Pittsburgh
I like Cookie and hope he is back.
I am Laura Nichols and I like Bacon.
BSD is an addiction, and this is the first step.
by carolinaeasy on May 13, 2010 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions
I like Cooke too but I think he will go the way of Jarko. He’s good, but for his role, you can pay a guy from Wilkes/Barre half that and be good to go.
by Wags24 on May 13, 2010 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Then why do you need Lapierre?
Isn’t is essentially the same role?
I am Laura Nichols and I like Bacon.
BSD is an addiction, and this is the first step.
by carolinaeasy on May 13, 2010 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions
I just looked at how much Lappy is making…yeah, scratch that!
by Wags24 on May 13, 2010 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Lapierre pulls a lot of crap on ice—he’s notorious for “whining” and being a diver (I think he got called three separate times for diving in Game 5 against Washington). Cooke is a bit more disciplined.
Cидни Kросби: Александр Oвечкин, он твой папа теперь
Capitals Coming: for Capitals fans who can bear reading something less intelligent than a story at Japers' Rink
by red army line on May 13, 2010 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions
the look on his face at various times in the serious was enough to make me want to drive to montreal and kick some french guy in the nuts
I am Laura Nichols and I like Bacon.
BSD is an addiction, and this is the first step.
by carolinaeasy on May 13, 2010 7:58 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
They were who we thought they were. The switch doesn’t exist. They played like they did all season. Weak PP, weak D, and not enough offensive production outside of Sid. If I’m going to play the blame game I blame Yoe for his terrible PP coaching and terrible defensive coaching. I blame Dan Bylsma for not leaning on Yoe. And we will be looking at Shero due to the lack of prospects down the road (but he can fix this still).
Put on your dancin' shoes.
First, condolences
If anyone knows how you feel this morning, it’s a Caps fan, and I know it’s not fun.
The main thing the Pens need, and it’s just what they’re going to get, is rest. With some extra time off, Crosby and Malkin probably go back to being dominant. When those guys are dominant, you can win games with journeymen wingers. When they’re not, you can’t. Malkin looked like he had nothing in the tank all year, and Sid certainly looked like he was out of gas in this last series. Hey, it happens. They’ve played a lot of extra hockey these past 3 seasons.
If it were me, I’d concentrate on keeping the strength down the middle and concentrate the available cap dollars at the D positions. Then add in warm bodies at the wings. With the $10M available, if you add a couple hot FA wings, you’re going to eat up the heart and liver of that cap space and then you’re truly screwed on D.
All the teams have holes, now, thanks to the salary cap. The Pens can bank on depth down the middle, competent defense and goaltending, and try to scrape enough goals out of the wings to make a run.
"You want to start being part of the Rink? Fine, but more’s expected of you than John/Jane Cap Fan. Carry the cause of informed discussion to the unwashed masses and don’t crap in the yards of other SBN sites if you decide to go over there. They’re passionate about their teams too, no need to troll elsewhere and/or be a sore winner." --BP
by fat_daddyo on May 13, 2010 12:58 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
+1
a clear, level-headed response to a bunch of hysterics over losing in the 2nd round after back to back SCF runs. well said
by mcnulty4prez on May 13, 2010 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Easy to be level-headed when it’s not your team. When the Caps went down to the Habs, I was calling for blood.
But I do think the Pens will be a dangerous team next year. The cap situation, and the farm team situation to an even greater degree, are trouble spots. But the difference makers on the roster are also in a league of their own.
We’ll see.
"You want to start being part of the Rink? Fine, but more’s expected of you than John/Jane Cap Fan. Carry the cause of informed discussion to the unwashed masses and don’t crap in the yards of other SBN sites if you decide to go over there. They’re passionate about their teams too, no need to troll elsewhere and/or be a sore winner." --BP
I said this a LONG, long time ago. Thanks for reassuring me though!
by Wags24 on May 13, 2010 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t know if anyone has said this yet but that crowd last night was AWESOME. If you where there, kudos for keeping it up.
Put on your dancin' shoes.
Yeah good job! Tons of you left before halfway thru the third period! Good work! As for those who stay…nice salute to the team! They brought you a cup last season, they deserved it! After all, you could be like Buffalo!
by Wags24 on May 13, 2010 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Defenseman UFAs
One’s I’d like to see Ray go after:
Anton Volchenkov 27 OTT $3,200,000
Willie Mitchell 32 VAN $3,500,000
Niclas Wallin 34 SJ $1,725,000
Francis Bouillon 33 NASH $750,000
Id love to see Volchenkov, but I think he played his way out of the Pens price range in the playoffs.
by genomachine-O on May 13, 2010 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions
He should get around Orpik money. But get him and you have two of the best shutdown defensemen in the game. Even Ovechkin isn’t breaking that wall.
by lostprophetRJX on May 13, 2010 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions
With all the Cap space we are about to free up…it’s POSSIBLE! Far fetched…but possible!
by Wags24 on May 13, 2010 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Yea, and as I mentioned just below there’s absolutely no one worth spending money on for wings. Dups and Kennedy will have to step up, Malkin honestly needs to move to wing permanently, and we gotta pray Tangradi starts next year. The money will be worth Volchenkov.
DREW DOUGHTY FOR NORRIS!
by lostprophetRJX on May 13, 2010 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
The trouble with Volchenkov is that he’s not too durable, and at times he’s not too quick. Crosby made a fool of him a few times in the first round, right?
Cидни Kросби: Александр Oвечкин, он твой папа теперь
Capitals Coming: for Capitals fans who can bear reading something less intelligent than a story at Japers' Rink
by red army line on May 13, 2010 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions
If we lose Gonchar and a few others…Volchenkov is a potential guy that I think everybody can agree, would be a NICE fit!
by Wags24 on May 13, 2010 1:14 PM EDT reply actions
We’re definitely losing Gonchar. Burnside on ESPN made a point that I thought right after the Moen goal: He looked like a guy that was well on his way out already.
And there’s absolutely no prime PP QBs in the UFA pool, so the plan will have to be 10 lashes for every time Letang misses the net until he gets his accuracy somewhat decent.
by lostprophetRJX on May 13, 2010 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions
He can run a second unit, but of the three mediocre PP QBs between him, Tang, and Gogo, I’d rather have the latter two before Leopold.
by lostprophetRJX on May 13, 2010 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Corvo was seriously banged up this season (got his leg sliced by a skate, out for a few months) but in previous years he was a solid PP quarterback. He seems to fit the Gonchar mold of more stationary, bombs-from-the-point type defenseman on the PP (as opposed to a Niedermayer/Green rover).
Cидни Kросби: Александр Oвечкин, он твой папа теперь
Capitals Coming: for Capitals fans who can bear reading something less intelligent than a story at Japers' Rink
by red army line on May 13, 2010 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Im sure the Bruins will take Guerin
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by bestbostonsports on May 13, 2010 1:20 PM EDT reply actions
I don’t think Guerin’s going to play again. He might be hanging them up, but who knows?
Follow the Penguins on SBN @ Pensburgh.com and twitter.
judging from his interview with FSN after the game i think hes going to retire.
by genomachine-O on May 14, 2010 7:29 AM EDT up reply actions
Now that Caputi trade looks really bad…
by lostprophetRJX on May 13, 2010 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Interesting article from The Hockey News
http://www.thehockeynews.com/articles/33579-THNcom-Playoff-Blog-Penguins-must-trade-Malkin.html
Follow me on Twitter http://twitter.com/marcy8771
http://marcyhockey.blogspot.com/
You know, hockey is a business just like anything else. But I’m sorry, you don’t trade somebody like that when you have them under contract for the next few years. Sorry Hockey News! Malkin’s final year of his contract, will revisit this subject. Until then….Geno’s a Penguin!
by Wags24 on May 13, 2010 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, franchise players like Geno you can trade if it’s absolutely necessary. But in this case, it isn’t. The guys ignoring the fact we won a Cup last year with a similar setup and ignore the fact that it’s worked in the past (i.e. Colorado).
DREW DOUGHTY FOR NORRIS!
by lostprophetRJX on May 13, 2010 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions
EXACTLY! Oh what a difference a year makes in the eyes of the media! Never amazes me! You’re dead on though…we traded Jagr! If we traded Jagr and the Oilers traded Gretzky…anything is possible. But, like you said, this isn’t one of those years! We don’t need wholesale changes…just a few tweaks!
by Wags24 on May 13, 2010 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions
We’re not in rebuilding mode either. You trade a franchise player if you’re in rebuilding mode (just not a laughable one like CP did with Jagr). This team is built to win NOW.
DREW DOUGHTY FOR NORRIS!
by lostprophetRJX on May 13, 2010 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions
You bet!! And they have to win now!! WE all know this does not last forever!! Lots of BAD, BAD, BAD years in between the early 90’s and now!!! Including before the 66 pick!
by Wags24 on May 13, 2010 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions
thats true, i was like 7 when they won the cup in 92’ even then if you would have told me Lemieux would never win a cup again as a player I would have said no freakin way…..
by genomachine-O on May 13, 2010 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions
You and me both! You know what the funny thing is? Look how crazy the fans are about this! If the fanbase is this nuts, how do you think the players feel? It sucks, but I’m happy they get some rest! They deserve it!
by Wags24 on May 13, 2010 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions
All sorts of retardation jumping out of that article.
A) Do what I said at the top of the page. Force Geno to wing. He is built to be a winger. If he doesn’t like it, then you entertain a trade.
B) Though its possible because Kevin Lowe has the IQ of his shoe size, even he wouldn’t be that impaired to trade Taylor Hall, Paajarvi-Svensson, AND Sheldon Souray. Especially not if Hall is NHL ready.
DREW DOUGHTY FOR NORRIS!
by lostprophetRJX on May 13, 2010 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Pens would not entertain Souray…not after how he’s handled his situation there in Edmonton. Mario would not approve. As for your recommendation….I would force Geno to Wing LONG before entertaining a trade! You don’t replace Evgeni Malkin by committee!
by Wags24 on May 13, 2010 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t dismiss the way Souray handled things, but that was Edmonton. Not to mention they’d also be giving us a potential 40 goal scorer and a potential 30 goal scorer. Give it a couple years and we’d make the Caps now look like Florida’s offense lol.
DREW DOUGHTY FOR NORRIS!
by lostprophetRJX on May 13, 2010 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I like Souray a lot...
he brings a wicked shot, is good with his fists, and stands up for his teammates. However, he is a huge liability on defense, which is quite problematic for a defenseman.
"Never mistake motion for action." - Ernest Hemingway
that would be one of the most ridiculous trades ever. i dont even think the Rangers would take Souray at this point.
by genomachine-O on May 13, 2010 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions
They don’t need him, they already have the best Dman in the game, Wade Redden.
DREW DOUGHTY FOR NORRIS!
by lostprophetRJX on May 13, 2010 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Boy wouldnt that be a D pairing for the ages though.
by genomachine-O on May 13, 2010 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Yea so this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hy0pXTnx85Q
could happen twice in a game!!!
DREW DOUGHTY FOR NORRIS!
by lostprophetRJX on May 13, 2010 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Totally agree about Geno on the wing. No offense to him, but he’s not too great in the playoff circle, and tends to dipsy doodle around with the puck rather then pass it off to his wingers. But there must be a reason he’s still at center. No chemistry with other centers? Or he refuses to go. I personally love the idea of the second line being Staal at center with Geno on his wing.
Follow me on Twitter http://twitter.com/marcy8771
http://marcyhockey.blogspot.com/
Total agreement. How many times did Malkin try and just skate through the entire team only to eventually have the puck knocked away from him? Don’t get me wrong, he usually would make it by 1-2 guys, and it was always unbelievable to watch but it gets old when nothing usually comes from it.
by packallday555 on May 13, 2010 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions
MONTREAL (AP) — Police say 41 people have been arrested in the mayhem after the Montreal Canadiens’ Game 7 victory over Pittsburgh.
Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10133/1057946-100.stm#ixzz0npiKsImI
Yea Canada your really showing us uninformed Americans what being a hockey fan is all about. What a disgrace, for fans that sit on their high horse and act like the royalty of NHL fanbases, act like you’ve been there before you idiots. What an embarrassment.
by genomachine-O on May 14, 2010 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions
I want to address this winger thing ...
Most teams in the NHL build their offense around a top line — like in San Jose, with their Heatley/Thornton/Marleau line. Then these teams struggle to make sure their second line is good enough (the center of which is constantly questioned), and their third line is often seen as something less than a force to be reckoned with.
In Pittsburgh Ray Shero enjoys the spoils from a bunch of great draft years, and the organization has built our beloved team “down the center”. So we can’t afford Dani Heatley (he would look great by Sidney’s side!), but we can afford Chris Kunitz. Tenk and Poni didn’t work out the way we’d hoped, but they are the sort of players, in theory, that should work well with Geno.
And while Geno & Fleury didn’t have a great season, we do have something other teams don’t have: we have strength down the center. Our third line rocked this year, and we all know that Staal would be a second line guy (or a first line winger?) if he played elsewhere.
The winger thing isn’t so much a liability, as a tricky puzzle that has to be put together anew every year. Crosby elevates everyone’s play, so we get a strong first line just like everyone else’s team. And Geno and Staal bring light to the second and third lines, where other teams falter.
Obviously, it didn’t all work according to plan this time. But I don’t think the answer is to just give up the “strength down the center” idea in order to become like every other team in the NHL. Our unique structure gives us unique problems, but I still think it’s a good foundation.
Leafs fan living large in the Pitt and pretending like the drought is over. Go Pens!
It’s funny you mention San Jose as an example of building the offense around a top line, because the HTML line only came to fruition 1/4 through this season .The Sharks have actually emphasized in previous seasons of maintaining two well-rounded lines. Prior to Pavelski’s emergence, Marleau was the 2nd line center. In the current postseason, the Sharks’ 2nd line has been arguably more dominant than their top line. And naturally, 3rd lines on any team in this league will be less of a force to be reckoned with, including the Staal line.
The Penguins do have problems in developing home-grown talent at the winger position. Dupuis, Poni, Kunitz, Guerin are all veterans drafted and developed by other teams and all were acquired during the trade deadline. The Pens are then forced to bargain during free agency or at the trade deadline, which results in over-paying for less production. This sort of acquisition strategy is beneficial during the short-term, but inefficient during the long-term. That Poni trade for Caputi and Skoula is looking terrible in hindsight, because the Pens got rid of a arguably blue-chip prospect for a terrible rental.
Of the top 6 forwards on other teams:
Only Heatley and Thornton were not drafted and developed by the Sharks.
In Vancouver, only Mikael Samuelsson was not drafted and developed by the team.
In Chicago, only Hossa and Sharp were not drafted and developed by the team.
The Penguins’ strength down the center is their double-edged sword. When Crosby and Malkin are playing at the top of their game, it’s near impossible for opposing defensemen to contain them both. Unfortunately, when they struggle, their average linemates are less able to pick up the slack.
Patty Marleau: An Erotic Life
Picked overall #2
Adored by the faithful
Trade rumors abound
Turns-around career
Year of the Cup?
Joe Pavelski: Real- American Mojo
by Will Bulldozer on May 13, 2010 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s one double-edged sword that every single GM would love to have in their arsenal…guaranteed!
by Wags24 on May 13, 2010 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions
PENS' all year performance
It is unfair to name players who we believe underperformed last night! Well ok, Hallak did a greater job than MAF but what about the scoring power of those well payed forwards? And this is not only about what happened during this series. If you take a look to the number of goals scored during the season by the Penguins versus the Canadiens you will understand the this famour Penguins scoring power was not as strong as we believed…!
Trade Crosby and Malkin for the Great8 and Semin
That is my incoherent, nonsensical, retarded, and knee jerk reactionary post for this thread.
I am Laura Nichols and I like Bacon.
BSD is an addiction, and this is the first step.
I just wanted to take a moment and use comedy to show the absurdity of these post
I am Laura Nichols and I like Bacon.
BSD is an addiction, and this is the first step.
by carolinaeasy on May 13, 2010 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s not absurd if you think about it. People have the right to vent. At least here, you’re not venting around Caps fans and others that are just going to try to pick a fight. Does this thread really, REALLY mean anything? Absolutely not! But it’s fun to see everybody’s side of it! Nobody here really knows what happend…people do care! But guess what!?? The good news is, everybody’s blood will be boiling once again come October!
by Wags24 on May 13, 2010 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions
I understand and do feel it is necessary
we need to vent with people who care as much as we do, but at the same time it doesn’t hurt to realize this is crazy talk and have a quick chuckle now and again.
I am Laura Nichols and I like Bacon.
BSD is an addiction, and this is the first step.
by carolinaeasy on May 13, 2010 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Crazy talk indeed…I think everybody, for the most part, does realize that. It’s interesting to deal with hypothetical situations when it comes to this kind of thing! It’s a knowledgeable fan base just looking forward to October!
by Wags24 on May 13, 2010 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions
So I can have Sid, Geno, and Backstrom down the middle?
Done!
Cидни Kросби: Александр Oвечкин, он твой папа теперь
Capitals Coming: for Capitals fans who can bear reading something less intelligent than a story at Japers' Rink
by red army line on May 13, 2010 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Although it still doesn’t answer one of the age-old questions… what would Ovie and Crosby ON THE SAME LINE look like?
Look upon my 62% faceoff win rate, ye mortals, and despair!
This is why I wish the All Star Game was an actual game, just to see how frightening that would be.
by SlayerGhaleon on May 13, 2010 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Thought for new line combos next year
Everyone agrees Staal needs more ice time, yes? Two things to do:
A) I don’t know how much weight that Gogo-for-Neal or Benn rumor held during the deadline, but if it does you do that and put either next to Sid.
B) Force Geno to wing.
C) Make the Cooke-Staal-Kennedy line the second line. It can produce, and its basically a top-2-line shutdown line.
D) Max and Adams center the bottom 6.
DREW DOUGHTY FOR NORRIS!
Thanks for bringing back my day dreams of Neal playing on Sids wing……
by genomachine-O on May 13, 2010 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Im not sure i’m buying this theory that Geno was built to play wing a lot of people are throwing out there. When Geno is at his best he is dominating from end to end up the middle. Using the entire ice to his advantage. hes a very good skater with the puck. I think with him playing wing that really restrains him. Im not sold on that, but i certainly understand wanting him to playing Sid for a full season. I’d love to see what those 2 could do as well. i just dont think thats the best option.
by genomachine-O on May 13, 2010 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions
He still can use the ice as long as they implement a system for that line that allows for it. But the guy was very lazy backchecking this year and he’s abysmal at faceoffs.
DREW DOUGHTY FOR NORRIS!
by lostprophetRJX on May 13, 2010 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Yea I mean I see both sides of the argument. Geno didnt have a great year. But Geno was terrific the previous 2 year, backchecking and playing at both ends. I just see them both as playmakers better at distributing the puck. Hey maybe theyll just have to ask Geno next year. Would you rather play with Sid this year or whatever washed up FA’s we can find for you. And hope he says wing. I think Letestu is a more than capable 3 or 4th line center along with Talbot and Adams.
by genomachine-O on May 13, 2010 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions
He was terrific backchecking the previous two years, which is what pisses me off! But not only has been been poor with smaller center responsibility, but I think his goal scoring potential is somewhat limited at center as well. I think playing with Sid pulling up to survey the attack zone on a rush, Geno would have a field day cutting in from the off wing like a true sniper. He’s got an amazing shot that he just doesn’t get to unleash unless he’s on the PP.
DREW DOUGHTY FOR NORRIS!
by lostprophetRJX on May 13, 2010 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions
We talked about how he loves coming up the middle on a rush. He can still do that as long as someone takes his spot, but I think he needs to branch out and also try cutting up the wing. I can honestly say I don’t remember him ever coming up the wing on a rush hard with the puck like Ovechkin does.
DREW DOUGHTY FOR NORRIS!
by lostprophetRJX on May 13, 2010 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Kunitz-Crosby-Dupuis
Ladd-Malkin-N.Johnson
Cooke-Staal-Kennedy
Rupp-Talbot-Adams
Orpik-Letang
Goligoski-Leopold
Volchenkov-Lovejoy
Line 1: That line has been great for the pens all year and I think that they could keep it together
Line 2: With Patrick Kane and Johnathan Toews getting huge pay raises next year, Andrew Ladd will certainly be let go, and he makes 1.5 M a year, but I think the pens could
lure him for about 2.5 M. Also, from what I’ve seen, Nick Johnson looks finally ready to make the jump.
Line 3: I don’t see Cooke making more money elsewhere
Line 4: the same
defense:
Line 1: no change
Line 2: Leopold has been outstanding and I see the pens keeping him
Line 3: Pure hope, but I think the pens could possibly have enough cap space to sign Anton “A-Train” Volchenkov, although he may charge upwards of 5 mil which may put him out of reach. Also I like what I’ve seen from Lovejoy this year and think he has what it takes for the NHL.
Thoughts?
By the way, did anyone elses day really suck today?
by stoopidtom on May 13, 2010 3:09 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
First: yes, I’m having a sad day. Not so much bad… but sad.
I’m intrigued by your N. Johnson comment, and I’d like to hear from more WBS followers about him.
Re. Cooke: his hit on Savard might play in our favour, because a lot of other teams will be hesitant to take him, what with the so-called liabilities he brings with him.
Agree about Lovejoy. I also like Engelland, but I know others don’t see him as a full-time NHL-er (or possibly as the 7th d?). Volchenkov would be a great add, and I kind of think Shero will at least put feelers out, what with his playoff performance. You’re right that affording him might be an issue, but that’s going to be tricky, regardless. D is an issue, and maybe Volchenkov will help.
Leafs fan living large in the Pitt and pretending like the drought is over. Go Pens!
Im not sure I see Ladd as a top 6 guy…then again I dont see Feds Poni, Talbot, and Guerin as top 6 guys.
by genomachine-O on May 13, 2010 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I would replace N. Johnson with Tangradi. Replace Leopold with Lovejoy and pair up Leopold with Volchenkov. I think Hamhuis is a possibility if Volchenkov signs elsewhere or instead of him especially if you are talking 5 mil range. I love Cooke, but you can put someone in that role for much less, so if he walks it frees up some more cap space to go after a shut down defenseman.
I want to see the Habs play the Sharks in the final...
only so I can see a test of the two basic theories that seem to keep reappearing in this thread. Montreal’s defensive system was tough on the Pens’ centermen. How will it work against San Jose’s top line? Will Gill be as effective with three high caliber offensive players on the ice as opposed to one? Of course there are a bunch of variables afoot here making it difficult to isolate one or two. Nonetheless, we can get at least an impressionistic comparison that might shed some light on the way the Pens’ lines are built versus the way the Sharks are constructed.
"Never mistake motion for action." - Ernest Hemingway
It would be an interesting match.
I’m having trouble not rooting for Montreal after they bumped off both Washington and Pittsburgh. That isn’t a fluke anymore. This is a team that I kept telling my friends was DANGEROUS, and suddenly I’m looking like a genius in the pool at work…
I think San Jose wins it, though. Neither the Caps nor the Pens were very defensively responsible this series. For the most part, the Sharks have been. They also bring with them a brutal and very deep offense, and they play a lot harder at the net than the Caps do.
Of course, San Jose has to face the best defensive team in hockey to get to the final, and the Habs aren’t there yet either. We might just see Chicago-Philadelphia, the way Boston is doing all it can to choke.
Look upon my 62% faceoff win rate, ye mortals, and despair!
I live up in the Detroit area
And all year people up here argue with me that “Cindy Crybaby” isn’t the Pens best player, Geno is. And all year I’ve been telling them, I don’t think Geno is even the 2ND best player on this team. That is Jordan Staal. I just don’t really think most fans realize what he means to this team on so many levels. This kid is going to dominate the Selke for years to come.
pens need to regroup
for those fans that watched the entire season like most of us did .last night was way too predictable. #29 played like he played all year….horrible…be honest guy’s he was off this year. one shutout on that team….save percentage and goals against near the bottom. i am a big fan …but talk about being off your game! i really can’t remember him stealing many games for us this year. if he plays like he did the last couple of years … the pens win 50 games …..better times are head!
the team lacked a shut down defensemen ….boy did we miss hal gil…shero thought mckee could replace him…i don’t know what he was thinking…… at the trade deadline i pleaded for a shut down guy…but no luck! as much as i like #44 he is no match against the other teams best player. he still runs around and losses his focus. #58 will be an all star real soon i just hope we keep him around long enough to see it. as for sarge …we will miss him but only for a short period of time. he plays soft and we need some more grit back at that blue line.
my main man malkin was bad this year…..to be a minus player on this team is absurd and as much as i like him he needs to learn to play both ends of the ice…..the 80’s are over and he needs to learn to get a little more dirty.
the one guy that i think should go is # 48….i believe he was a minus 8 in the playoffs…..wow !
one more thing to ponder…remember #66 is still making the calls and i am sure he will give mr. shero an earful on some of his in my opinion bad moves he has made recently.
by malkin in the middle on May 13, 2010 10:33 PM EDT reply actions
one more point re:perspective
I’ve seen folks here and on ESPN trying to compare this loss to the ’93 series against the Isles. Seriously, give me a f—-ing break: that loss was 100 times worse than this one.
It’s one thing to lose a series when you see your team’s flaws clearly. Much as we were all hoping for the best, anyone watching this year’s Pens could see the inconsistency down the stretch, the sloppy defense, and the power-play struggles. I’ll admit that I still had hopes of going back to the Finals after the Caps and Devils lost in round 1, but even at my most optimistic I thought we were getting waxed by whomever won the West. I was pulling for our guys, and I was disappointed when they lost last night, but I wasn’t shocked by it at all.
It’s something else entirely to lose a series when you literally don’t see it coming. In ‘93 the Pens were an absolute juggernaut. Think of a team rolling through the regular season like this year’s Caps; then imagine that group having proven themselves with two Cup titles; and then imagine them steamrolling through the first round. That was the ‘92-’93 Pens. Seeing them lose in the second round, when it was inconceivable that they could lose until that f—-ing overtime goal in game 7, was much, much harder to take than last night.
P is for Latrobe.
sorry, but...
my comment will only be related to the title of the thread… not it’s actual content…
I really needed a couple of days for the dust to settle inside of me… I haven’t been on the blog nor have I read anything about hockey in last day and a half…
A bit tired now… and I guess I’ll catch up later with the “who’ll be in for next season” topic as my hockey-hunger grows stronger and stronger during the summer… and for now… I’ll chill out for a while… but I’ll see you around soon!:)
Last, but not least…(those clichés;) I’d like to thank all of you – guys and some girls:) – for the great season of comments and sharing of opinions and emotions. Good times!
You have to see it for yourself...
Production
I think the ones to move on should be: Guerin,Poni, Feds,Leopold, Gonchar and Talbot. (yep, thats right, Talbot). There should be no question about keeping Staal. Definately keep Cooke and the rest of the team. McKee and GoGo played well together. I’m sure Shero will look around and find someone to add to the defense and a couple of good wingers. Love Guerin but I think he’s due for retirement. Love Gonch, but I think he’s gonna price himself right out of the Pens. Fleury and Johnson are excellent net minders. Easy for those to bash Fleury with some of his play this year, but he one guy you don’t want to count out. Definately keep Sid, Geno, Staal for the top three lines.
Gamma_Connie
Talbot’s under contract, and I don’t think they’d get much for him in a trade. And he’s pretty valuable, what with hsi ability to play multiple rolls on the team — center/winger, second/third/fourth line, pk, etc. And, of course, his ability to keep things light has been an asset to the team.
Hopefully Talbot will come back next season healthy and with a renewed regular season drive.
Leafs fan living large in the Pitt and pretending like the drought is over. Go Pens!
The one thing I hope is they get the flaws fixed next year. Shero has to learn to manage his cap a little better. He doesn’t leave himself much wiggle room to acquire the talent the Pens need. I understand we have some people waiting with the Baby Pens, but Sid needs a proven winger to help him out. I don’t see the Pens moving Malkin to first line winger like he should be.
1 thing that definitely needs addressed though is the discipline problem. Way to many bad penalties this year. I’m just hoping it’s because they were so gassed from 2 straight late season playoff runs.
And...
It hurts all the more when Philly fucking gets through too.
FOR FUCKS FUCKING SAKE, come on.
by Svedish Chef on May 15, 2010 8:28 AM EDT up reply actions
The Pens only have Orpik, Letang, and GoGo under contract.
They need to blow up the defence. It was way, way too SOFF.
That means letting Gonchar and McKee go and either Eaton or Leopold, too.
Then they need to bring in some FAs with grit and/or solid stay-at-home skills.
ORPIK – needs a gritty partner for a “shutdown” pairing.
LETANG – needs someone who plays D first, so he can develop his O skills
GOGO – see Letang, but also add b/c GoGo ‘s D is abysmal and he’s a midget.
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