Pensburgh wrapup: Bill Guerin
by Hooks Orpik on May 24, 2010 6:00 AM EDT
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PrintOK, so here's the deal. The season ended a little earlier than anybody wanted, but now that the inital shock of losing has worn off, it's time to look back at each player and break things down. We'll look at how they did over the course of the season and where they stand for next year. These looks are in no particular order and will run each week-day for players who played a significant amount of time this season for the black-and-gold.
I like to imagine Bill Guerin never doesn't have a beer in hand. (also nice face, Max)
"I meet with them every single day, ... So if I seem a little goofier next year, you'll understand why." -John Bunting (former UNC football coach)
Season stats: 78gp, 21g, 24a 45p, -9, 75 PIMs
Playoff stats: 11gp, 4g, 5a, 9p, +3, 2 PIMs
Month-by-month Pensburgh grades:
October: B
November: B-
December: A-
January: B-
February: B-
March: C-
Playoff: B-
Interesting stat: Despite playing mainly first line minutes with Sidney Crosby, Bill Guerin only scored 13 even strength goals in 89 games. Guerin joins Teemu Selanne, Tomas Holmstrom and Brad Richards as the only 20+ goal scorers in the NHL this season to score more power play goals than at ES.
The Good: At 39 years old, Guerin was the undisputed gray beard of the Pitsburgh Penguins. He worked through back and elbow injuries to remain in the lineup for most of the game. Guerin was on the Penguins power play in the role of screening the goalie and doing a lot of dirty work in front of the net to grant the rest of the players more space. Attempt to recall a PP goal scored by the Pens this season and chances are in that highlight #13 is standing right on the doorstep, blocking the view of the goalie and drawing a crowd of defensemen.
The Not-so-good: Even strength production just wasn't there. Guerin scored just 29 ES points and was a -9, indicative that more goals were going in than he was contributing on, a big deal when you're playing top line minutes with one of the league's best offensive weapons in Sidney Crosby. Coming back from his elbow condition, Guerin only had one point (a goal) and 3 shots on goal in the last three games of the Penguins season, it appeared he had worn away to nothing.
Final verdict: Perhaps more than anyone on the roster, you can't just measure Bill Guerin's hard statistics to see his value to the team. He was a great leader in the room for the largely young team, he kept things loose but still maintained a certain sternness and focus. It's not easy to take the net-front role on the PP, but Guerin provided that. For a guy that will be 40 this November, the unavoidable question is if he's willing and able to endure the rigors of another NHL season.
Question: Will Guerin be back? He accepted an over 50% pay-cut to return to the Penguins in 2009-10 and with the team again dealing with salary cap restraints, he'd likely have to take another reduction in salary. Have Guerin's skills eroded to the point where he's not a viable Top 6 winger for a team that intends to contend for a championship or is his total efforts (on and off the ice) enough to make him a priority?
Debate and Vote: As a fan, would you accept Guerin back next with the black-and-gold next season? Or is what he brings to the table on the ice just not enough to justify giving him a roster spot and a salary for a team that may be in a slight transition?
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I’m a huge Billy G fan. I wish the Pens would have got him 10 years ago. Hes had a great career, a hall of famer IMO. I think the Pens need to look in another direction to fill a top 6 role. Nothing against Billy. If hes still available and willing to maybe play a 3rd line role or something I’d do it….Not to play with Sid though.
If the price is right, then by all means sign Billy G. His presence in front of the net on the PP is extremely valuable (my only question is, what the hell was he doing standing at the side of the net for the regular season?), but he just won’t do on Sid’s line anymore. At the same time, the veteran presence he brings is unlike anything that an Armstrong or a Talbot brings to help Sid in that he makes his double job as Captain and top player easier. However, with our cap situation he may be the best option with Sid. I can’t see them breaking up the 3rd line (assuming they sign Cookie) and he did not work with Geno on the 2nd, but I think he’s still to good to be playing 4th line minutes.
So final verdict: Bring him back, but at the right price and possibly not as a 1st line wing.
I've told [a 9 months pregnant] Nathalie that she can't have the baby on a game night. I'm not missing a playoff game. -Mario Lemieux in 1993
I think most agree he’s not a top six forward anymore. And I’d like to see the power play go with a guy who has better hands than Guerin in front of the net. I know he was an important piece to our team last year, but I think it’s time we say goodbye.
Pittsburgh sports all the way
It’s not that his hands are bad…it’s just that he’s slow. In my opinion, he’s perfect in front of the net on the PP, he’s just too slow to play with Sid. He’s also still got a pretty damn good shot.
I've told [a 9 months pregnant] Nathalie that she can't have the baby on a game night. I'm not missing a playoff game. -Mario Lemieux in 1993
He does have a decent shot but he doesn’t have good hands. I remember all too vividly the many times he would send rebounds wide or whiff on deflections. I think someone with quicker hands would be better on the powerplay.
Pittsburgh sports all the way
His hands aren’t good, but they’re not that bad. I remember those times too, but I think he’s probably the best guy for the price right now. I think Rupp could also be in that conversation. I can’t include Cooke, Kunitz, or even Adams and Talbot because of size issues. Yeah you could put Cooke, Kunitz, or Kennedy in front on the PP, but their size would have them at a pretty big disadvantage.
Overall, I think he’s the best guy that we’re going to get in front for the price and the size. It’s just a bonus that he’s still got a decent shot and hands.
I've told [a 9 months pregnant] Nathalie that she can't have the baby on a game night. I'm not missing a playoff game. -Mario Lemieux in 1993
Although I’ve always rather thought Guerin had a rather irritating penchant for speaking out of turn when he would be better served to keep his mouth shut (for example, I thought that what he said about Matt Cooke deserving to be suspended for the Marc Savard incident was inappropriate for a number of reasons, and his almost pathological inability to keep his opinion to himself was one of the things that got him a one-way ticket out of New Jersey early on in his career) I think Guerin brings a lot of intangibles to the Penguins. I think he’s proven that he’s capable of keeping up with Sidney Crosby in the sense that his size and net-front presence gives Crosby the time and space to create chances and can result in more than a few garbage goals. I thought the fact that the Penguins played better with Guerin in the line-up during the playoffs than without him was rather telling, as he is one of the few players on their roster with both the size and willingness to take the punishment that goes hand-in-hand with being a net front presence. I also think that his presence in the locker room is beneficial to Crosby, as he can lean on Guerin for his knowledge and experience when everyone else is looking to him to lead the charge from the front on the ice. Although Guerin is no Mark Recchi, I think he’s quite capable of holding his own for another year, though a propensity to injure more easily as a result of age in addition to cap space is an important factor to take in to consideration. What the Penguins could really use is a young Billy Guerin in the prime of his career, though I hardly know where they could find a player like that considering their cap space and everything else going forward.
I think Billy G’s gotten to the point of his career that he will decide whether he wants to come back. If he doesn’t feel like hanging it up, he’ll just tell the Pens management and sign for the vet’s minimum. After that it’ll be the onus of the Pens to find a rotation spot for him.
I still think he’s capable of playing with Sid as his kind of physicality and his willingness to use that big body isn’t anything you can find in the FA market. Worst case for us is that he plays on our 3rd or 4th line and in our PP/PK units. He knows he’s gonna not gonna get a big contract, especially from us and I’m fairly sure he’s a good enough guy not to demand that from us.
Note: Today’s my 21st birthday… I’d say cue the celebratory music and party hats but I’m melancholy. Nothing can be done… On to more hockey talk…
I'm 21 now... I still feel 20 and I still feel way too old.
Just so I never have to answer this again. I'm from Singapore so whenever you see me online, I'm either sleep deprived or just waking up.
HAPPY BIRFDAYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
STAAL FOR SELKE. SIDNEY FOR EVERY OTHER ONE OR JUST THE HART. THAT IS ACCEPTABLE.
by katielynn906 on May 24, 2010 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions
ahem, mi mi mi….Happy Birthday to you, Happy Birthday to you, Happy Birthday Alighieri, Happy Birthday to you!!!!!!!!
Two weeks ago I was of the view that Guerin was now just too slow and the Pens should make no effort to bring him back. Then I started to study how the Pens might address the salary cap and there are real problems there. The Pens MUST resign either Cooke or Guerin (at $1.5-$1.8M), and 2-3 WBS players are going to have to be on the roster. The Pens need RWs for Crosby and Malkin, and a LW for Geno.
The free agent crop of RWs is just horrible. The only RW FA that interests me is Colby Armstrong, who would play with Sid and perhaps could be signed for $2M. Nick Johnson, who I thought looked NHL ready and played well with Geno when he was up last year, becomes his RW this year. The only decent FA LW for Geno that I think might fit under the cap — and only if Guerin is resigned —is Vinny Prospal ($1.8-2M).
This is the best I think we can hope for:
Kunitz-Crosby-Armstrong/Guerin
Prospal/DuPuis-Malkin-Johnson
Cooke/DuPuis/Tangradi-Staal-Kennedy
Rupp-Talbot-Adams
Godard (for Flyers and some Western Conference games)
Oprik
LeTang
Gologowski
Lovejoy
Leopold
Eaton
(Engelland at WBS except for call-ups)
(NB: might have to be either Leopold or Eaton (about $2M each for each), plus a $1M or less Dman (e.g. Sydor, Boucher, or Skoula from the past—perhaps Mike Mottau?)
you know I liked Colby when he was here, sad to see him go. It seems like at every possible opportunity that pens fans start with the “Bring back Colby!”. I have been against it since he left. But really, with whats out there, is it that crazy of an idea to bring back Colby? He was ok with Sid in the past, no worse than Satan and Dupuis…whoever. Then again
From AJC:
Colby has been a solid contributor to our club and we do have interest in him as a player, but after some initial discussions with the agent and our understanding of what he would be looking for we’re too far apart at this time," Thrashers GM Rick Dudley told the AJC.
Armstrong said he was letting his agent handle negotiations.
Armstrong made $2.4 million last season and is looking for a raise.
by genomachine-O on May 24, 2010 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions
yea sentimental feelings crept into my evaluation as well, His career high with the Pens was 16g…22g with ATL.
by genomachine-O on May 24, 2010 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Colby’s a borderline second line winger at best. But he’s out of our price range now and isn’t the kind of winger we need next to Sid & Geno. He’s never been a scorer and that’s unlikely to change.
I think he’s a Kunitz type grinder along the boards… Not that we need that now.
I'm 21 now... I still feel 20 and I still feel way too old.
Just so I never have to answer this again. I'm from Singapore so whenever you see me online, I'm either sleep deprived or just waking up.
i hope we keep him around…at a fairly low price. i think billy g isn’t totally unaware that he’s been slowin’ down and he won’t demand an insane amount. i think he’ll stick around.
also, that picture is incredible.
STAAL FOR SELKE. SIDNEY FOR EVERY OTHER ONE OR JUST THE HART. THAT IS ACCEPTABLE.
haufbrahaus…or how ever the hell you spell it.
by genomachine-O on May 24, 2010 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions
agree. that’s a GREAT pic. when i think “Hockey Player” i see Billy Guerin’s shit-eatin’ grin, a wrap here or there, holding a beer — perhaps not unlike the monster-sized one in the photo above.
bandage on his elbow, beer in hand, classy watch, big grin on that mug shot… That’s Billy G alright…
Barring game day photos, anyone ever see him sans the beer?
I'm 21 now... I still feel 20 and I still feel way too old.
Just so I never have to answer this again. I'm from Singapore so whenever you see me online, I'm either sleep deprived or just waking up.
incredible? how? Cause of Billy G, Max? The OTHER guy? ; )
I'm 21 now... I still feel 20 and I still feel way too old.
Just so I never have to answer this again. I'm from Singapore so whenever you see me online, I'm either sleep deprived or just waking up.
a): the picture is just the embodiment of so much awesome.
b): i have no idea what you speak of. none. absolutely none.
STAAL FOR SELKE. SIDNEY FOR EVERY OTHER ONE OR JUST THE HART. THAT IS ACCEPTABLE.
by katielynn906 on May 25, 2010 12:00 AM EDT up reply actions
It's probably some surfer dude named Stall or Store...
It’s not a very good picture of him… Maybe this one.
nope… Still don’t recognize him
I'm 21 now... I still feel 20 and I still feel way too old.
Just so I never have to answer this again. I'm from Singapore so whenever you see me online, I'm either sleep deprived or just waking up.
He should retire, maybe work with the team in some capacity. What exactly is the price for someone who is good in the room, and can only play (maybe PP). Don’t misunderstand me I think Billy Guerin is a great guy and certainly a hockey legend. But age is something nobody can fight. He is slow, and has lost a step or two , this has become sadly more evident lately. We need now more than ever to think of an infusion of speed in the team. Certainly his role in the room can be passed to other players.
no one in the FA can still clear the front of the net like he does. If it’s for the veteran’s minimum, we can do a lot worse than him on our 3rd line. Maybe when Tangradi shows he can take the punishment of a full NHL season.
I'm 21 now... I still feel 20 and I still feel way too old.
Just so I never have to answer this again. I'm from Singapore so whenever you see me online, I'm either sleep deprived or just waking up.
i love this picture- i think billy g brings alot to the team- in a word experience. yea we have two major cup trips under our young belts but there is something to be said for the beer-drinking- shit-eating grin that is covered in salt and pepper stubble. i believe that he is an addition that helps to keep the team in check in the thick of things
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