Marc-Andre Fleury and Save Percentage: Part II
Last week, I took a look at how Fleury performed while the opposing team was on the power play this past season. Seeing that Fleury's power play save percentage was well above average (as well as a new career high), I'm now going to turn to Fleury's performance at even strength. The sample I'm using for this analysis was the same one I used in my last analysis. I'm hoping to find an explanation in this data that answers the question: What happened to Flower this year?
Let's jump.
Fleury finished this season with .908 even strength save percentage, which was the lowest of his career. For reference's sake, he had a .940 even strength save percentage in 2007-2008. Fleury also doesn't look good when he is compared to the other goalies in the sample: out of the 30 included, Fleury's ES save percentage was 28th. Here's some information about the sample:
| ES SV% | |
| Mean | .921 |
| St. Dev. | .008 |
| Range | .032 |
| Maximum | .937 (Vokoun) |
| Minimum | .905 (Deslauriers) |
You can clearly see that Fleury's even strength save percentage was well below the mean (about 1.5 standard deviations), and only the play (or lack thereof) of Jeff Deslauriers and Brian Elliot kept him from being last. It's obvious at this point that Fleury's even strength save percentage was the culprit behind his sub-par performance this season. But one of the issues that needs to be addressed is the play of the defense in front of Fleury this year, or more succinctly, shot quality.
There are some who believe that the skaters in front of a goalie have a negligible effect on the quality of the shots he faces; others have provided convincing evidence that shot quality exists, can be measured, and is significant. One way to measure shot quality is to look at the characteristics of shots a goalie has faced (such as shot distance, shot type, and manpower situation, among others). Then you use those factors to come up with the number of expected goals against, according to league averages. You can then compare expected goals against and actual goals against to get a measure of shot quality.
But since I have some time on my hands, I decided to try a different strategy. I went back and used the videos on the Penguins' website to re-watch all of Fleury's even strength goals against this year. My goal was to find out how many "soft" goals Fleury gave up and how many "normal" goals Fleury gave up. After agonizing over the definition of a soft and normal goal, I settled on using the definition of a scoring chance. From the guys over at Copper and Blue, a scoring chance is defined as a clear play directed toward the opposing net from a dangerous scoring area - loosely defined as the top of the circle and in and inside the faceoff dots. I didn't count a wrap-around as a scoring chance. For those who are visual people, I've outlined the scoring chance area in this diagram:
| # of Goals | |
| Chance Goals | 97 |
| No Chance Goals | 29 |
| Penalty Shot | 1 |
| Six Skaters | 2 |
| Screen | 17 |
| Tip-in's | 9 |
| Deflections | 3 |
| Own Goal | 1 |
| 1-on-0 | 11 |
| 2-on-1 | 2 |
| 3-on-2 | 1 |
| 3-on-1 | 1 |
| 4-on-3 | 1 |
Whew! That's a lot to digest. While one could spend hours combing through all of this, I'm only going to analyze the percentage of goals in which Fleury was at fault. By my count, Fleury was not responsible for 95 goals (chance + no chance with mitigation) and responsible for 31goals (no chance without mitigation + rebound negation). So Fleury was not responsible for 75.4% of scores and was at fault for 24.6% of goals. Also of note is that 77% of even strength goals scored were in the chance area and 23% were outside the chance area.
After playing around with this data for a bit, I realized that this would be much easier if I had a reference point to compare Fleury's numbers to. I wanted to repeat the process for a different goalie who played close to the same number of games as Fleury. I settled on Ilya Bryzgalov, who started 69 games and finished this season with a .920 total save percentage, a .928 even strength save percentage, and a Vezina trophy nomination. After repeating the above process for Bryzgalov, I came to these figures:
| # of Goals | |
| Chance | 72 |
| No chance w/o mititgation | 24 |
| Rebound negation | 10 |
| No chance w/ mitigation | 4 |
Finishing up the math, Bryzgalov was at fault for 31% of ES goals (34 goals) and was not at fault for 69% (76 goals). The first thing that sticks out from this analysis is that Fleury was a fault for a smaller percentage of his team's even strength goals than Bryzgalov. Bryzgalov's total save percentage is higher than Fleury's because of the difference in shot volume, but strictly in terms of ES goals against, this point of view paints Fleury in a better light. Another way to look at it is to compare "soft" goals per 100 ES shots against for each goalie. With 31 "soft" even strength goals and 1,383 even strength shots against, Fleury gave up 2.24 "soft" goals per 100 ES shots against. For Bryzgalov, he gave up 34 "soft" goals over 1,529 even strength shots against, or 2.22 soft goals per 100 even strength shots against. Fleury clearly wasn't burdening his team with an extreme percentage of "soft" goals this season. There's a case to be made that he was just as focused at even strength as Bryzgalov was.
This analysis also doesn't paint the Pens' defense in a positive light. The defense was not the victim of a goaltender letting in a lot of soft goals, as Fleury was on par with Ilya Bryzgalov. What did happen is that the Pens gave up more even strength goals over fewer shots compared to the Coyotes, which looks like a below average defense giving up high quality shots. A thought experiment provides further proof. In terms of even strength goals against, the Penguins were 22nd in the NHL, giving up a total of 161 even strength goals, while the Coyotes were first at 131 ES goals against. Now imagine that the Pens' defense becomes average. The 15th ranked team allowed 148 goals, 13 fewer than the Penguins. With 13 fewer even strength goals against, Fleury's ES save percentage jumps to .918 and his total save percentage climbs to .913, only .001 away from last year's .912 total save percentage.
Without repeating too much, it doesn't look like Fleury had an awful year. If fact, it doesn't even look like he had a below average year. His power play save percentage was a new career high, and it was well above average among starting goalies this year. While his even strength save percentage was very low, it seems to be more of a product of the defense in front of him. Fleury was no less focused at even strength than Vezina nominee Ilya Bryzgalov, and had the team in front of him played even average defense, his save percentage would be right where it was last year.
I think it's important to remember that Fleury's path to success hasn't been without obstacles that would have hampered a lot of other people. As an impressionable 19 year old goalie, Fleury played 21 games behind an absolutely terrible Penguins team. Instead of letting that experience destroy his confidence and stall his development, he battled on. Though many doubted him, he eventually was able to hoist Lord Stanley's fabled trophy above his head on June 12, 2009. And for those who say he was a below average goalie riding shotgun on a talented team, here's Fleury's stat line in the four Stanley Cup Final wins last year: 118 SA, .949 SV%, 1.50 GAA. Possibly the scariest part is that Fleury hasn't reached his peak yet. When that time comes, I really hope that Marc-Andre Fleury is still wearing a Penguins uniform.
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Comments
Wow GoPens! The work you put into this post is incredible. I wouldn’t have the patience to do it. But, I definitely enjoyed reading it and appreciate the work. While we would all love to see Fleury be spectacular and carry the team beyond its weaknesses day after day and game after game, we all know that it takes a team of players to win. From a purely subjective and non-evidenced-based viewpoint, it did seem that Fleury was thrown off his game a bit more at times this season when he either let a soft goal in or the defence let him down, but overall, I’m not worried about that at all. As you said, he has shown a strength well beyond most of his 25 year old counterparts. I look forward to many good seasons ahead. Thank you again for an excellent read.
great post. i feel like all of my swearing at the defense this year has been slightly justified.
STAAL FOR SELKE. SIDNEY FOR EVERY OTHER ONE OR JUST THE HART AND THE MESSIER LEADERSHIP AWARD. THAT IS ACCEPTABLE.
Thanks Katie. It was actually quite startling re-watching all those goals again. Some of the gaffes we made that put Fleury in a bad position were just terrible…
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i can imagine. poor darling flower.
STAAL FOR SELKE. SIDNEY FOR EVERY OTHER ONE OR JUST THE HART AND THE MESSIER LEADERSHIP AWARD. THAT IS ACCEPTABLE.
by katielynn906 on Jun 15, 2010 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Very nice work. I never believed Fleury was the goat, and still believe he’s going to be a very very good goaltender. A lot of NHLers are rookies at 28, 29. . . I did believe the pens defense was a significant problem, and I also believe the offensive turnovers were not too awesome either, which put a lot more emphasis on the defense being not too stellar as well.
But I just watch the games, so this analysis was really interesting to see all of that fleshed out.
Thanks for the compliment Max.
And I’m with you on the point of Flower not being the real goat. There were too many times this season when we made fundamental defensive errors that simply can’t happen.
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My head hurts.
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by Great Ice-Pectations on Jun 15, 2010 4:24 PM EDT reply actions
That is an amazing article, wow! Really, really nice work.
It does make sense about our D; I’ve been screaming about that all season. There were the times when it looked like Fluery gave up way too many soft goals, but from your data, it speaks voulumes about the Pens lack of D. Big time.
I think MAF is a good goalie but he is currently being paid as a GREAT one. If he can peak, then he will abe able to stop alot of those shots no matter what the D does or doesn’t do…that comes with time and experience. And patience.
Can he become a great one and earn his $5 million salary? I think he can.
If and when he does that, if he is still wearing a Pens jersey it benefits all of us.
Again, great data!
One Who Lives And Breathes All Things Penguins
by PensFanInDenver on Jun 15, 2010 7:08 PM EDT reply actions
Thanks for the compliment PFID.
You bring up a really good point regarding salary. Fleury is being paid elite money, but it’s much too early in his career to tell if he is actually an elite netminder. That won’t become obvious until he’s about 28 years old. The positive thing is that he’s proven he can be a starter in this league, which isn’t an easy thing to do. The next step is becoming more consistent at a higher level.
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Unfortunately, by the time it becomes evident that he’s either an elite goaltender or not, the Penguins will have spent in the neighborhood of $25MM to find out and Fleury will likely be past his age of peak performance, which typically hits at about age 25 for “good” goalies.
It is my considered opinion, and one that would likely never net me a top-notch goalie if I ever happened to be an NHL GM, that there are very, very few goalies worth $5MM per season because their performances are too dependent on luck to justify spending nearly 10% of your cap on one. As much as I hate to say it, and I think their performance this year bears it out, the Flyers had the right idea this season. Go cheap, but just make sure your guys are NHL-caliber (i.e., staffing our net with Dany Sabourin as starter and me as backup isn’t going to cut it).
there are very, very few goalies worth $5MM per season because their performances are too dependent on luck to justify spending nearly 10% of your cap on one.
I completely agree. The non-stop shuffling in the NHL goalie leader board is evidence that the overwhelming majority of goalies have the same level of talent, and luck and pp SV% drive outlier results. But there are those few who consistently perform at the top of the chart, like Lundqvist, Vokoun, Kiprusoff, Brodeur. I hope that Fleury can slowly climb into this level of company.
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Wow
Mail that to the Penguins. They need analysis like this for both their personel purposes and for media writeups.
they are looking for a staff writer intern!
STAAL FOR SELKE. SIDNEY FOR EVERY OTHER ONE OR JUST THE HART AND THE MESSIER LEADERSHIP AWARD. THAT IS ACCEPTABLE.
by katielynn906 on Jun 15, 2010 8:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Unfortunately I don’t live in Pittsburgh. But that would be such a cool job!
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Haha thanks a lot Justin. I would hope they have people smarter than me crunching all the numbers.
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I don’t think there’s any question that the D was pretty awful this season. I see a small hole in your analysis though:
What’s Fleury’s SV% against shots from the scoring area vs. shots from outside the scoring area, and how does that compare to the other goalies in the league? I suspect it’s not going to be terribly different, but I can’t help but wonder. I realize that we’re starting to talk small sample size when we get into discussions like this (~200 shots is not exactly a lot), but there’s little choice when comparing active goaltenders.
What’s Fleury’s SV% against shots from the scoring area vs. shots from outside the scoring area, and how does that compare to the other goalies in the league?
It actually never occurred to me to go ahead and look at the problem this way. But one thing that would stand in the way is that you’d have re-watch every game and figure out how many shots came from each area. That’s an insane amount of work just for Fleury, and doing it for other goalies as well isn’t a realistic option for me.
But if there’s a conceptual way we could attack, I’d be down for that :)
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I know CSN Mid-Atlantic shows scoring chances data (unofficial) during games, so I guess they’d have compilations one could ask for. I’m not sure if FSN PIT does too.
I think all the Canadian teams have someone counting scoring chances (Copper and Blue, Vic Ferrari I think too).
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by red army line on Jun 17, 2010 6:42 AM EDT up reply actions
I think FSN PIT does record scoring chances as well, but the issue with that would be whether missed shots or blocked shots are counted as chances even if they come from the scoring area. If they are, then you wouldn’t be able to calculate a SV% because you’d have more than just SOG, which is the only thing I’d be after. The other difficulty is figuring out how many shots on goal came from outside the scoring chance area and MAF’s SV% on those.
Don’t get me wrong, I think there’s some merit to this point of view, but I was mainly after a metric that analyzed Fleury’s soft vs. normal goals allowed, and compared them amongst other goalies.
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I don’t have any way of knowing how accurate this is, but surprisingly enough the World Wide Leader has shot location data for every game, at least this season.
Here is the first game of the season.
When you go there, you’ll have to click the little Close button right under the word FINAL. Then it’ll show you where all the shots were taken from, and the ones that went in are labeled G.
Wow, I’m going to bookmark this site and see if there’s anything interesting I can come up with. Thanks for the tip J
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It must have been very depressing to watch every single goal scored against the penguins this season in rapid succession. Good Job Sir!
ummm numbers don't add up
sorry, am I missing something here?
you say
the Penguins were 22nd in the NHL, giving up a total of 161 even strength goals
but the number of goals allowed in the graph (chance + no chance) is 126 and in the table below that (all) it is 175. 6 skaters would be a delayed powerplay and not ES, but that only brings it down to 173.
I assume this mean that of the ES goals against for the Pens, 126 where on Fleury and 35 on BJ, and others. but the table below is kinda confusing…
PhilG,
The table above simply further classifies the 126 ES goals Fleury gave up. The table isn’t adding any new goals, just delineating between goals that were odd-man rushes, off of screens, etc. Does that make sense?
Author at Pensburgh.com
OK, I understand what you are saying....
But the table doesn’t further classify the goals, it makes it look like he has 175 ES goals.
Six skaters would be a delayed powerplay and not ES, so that should not even be mentioned.
Penalty shot doesn’t count as ES either, does it?
All the mitigating circumstances add up to 46. (not counting the 2 delayed PP and the Penalty Shot)
So these are the mitigating circumstances. Some may be in Chance areas while others are from no-chance areas, right? you should block off the table as such and put them in the correct cells.
chance nochance
circ1 a b
circ2 c d
circ3 e f
circ4 g h
nocirc i j
This way you see the GA that are really stacked against him (chance + mitigating circ), as well as the ones that are really soft (no chance, + no mitigating circ). The table then helps to illustrate your point better. collapsing across cric1-4 would give all the mitigating circumstance data and you would be left with a simple 2×2 table.
Sorry, I am a Scientist and fishing up a Masters in Biostatsistics.
Been reading your posts and only want to help you present data better.
Six skaters would be a delayed powerplay and not ES, so that should not even be mentioned.
Penalty shot doesn’t count as ES either, does it?
Penalty shots do count as even strength goals if they were committed while a team was at even stregnth. And six skaters on the ice are also even strength because when there is a delayed penalty, a team removes it’s goalie and sends out a skater, thus maintaining six players on the ice for each team.
And thanks for the tip on data presentation. I didn’t intend for it to be that confusing.
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Very interesting analysis
One point it doesn’t cover is that, from my observation, Fleury seems to lack the necessary concentration at the beginning of the game; his performance seems to improve once he’s scored upon. It would be interesting to see when in the game the “soft” goals occurred, I suspect many more early than late. Perhaps this is just a question of needing work to get into the game, but no matter how bad the defense was, 1 shutout in 67 games started isn’t good enough. Perhaps a harder pre-game work out is needed.
Agreed...very interesting!
Seriously impressive work here. It would be interesting to see how the scoring breaks down per minute in the game as phineas points out. That said, this is great analysis!
-Bryan
by bryanewyatt on Jun 16, 2010 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions
I think it’s been shown that very early goals in a game aren’t indicative of the final outcome. Even if a team scores in the first minute of play, both teams still have roughly the same chance to win as they did when they started the game. Part of this is because the earlier a goal is scored, the more time there is for the team that is losing to come back.
And while one wants to see the number of soft goals reduced to 0 (which will never realistically happen with any goalie), this analysis wasn’t analyzing when Fleury gave up those goals and how they affected the outcome of the game. I was only concerned with his overall level of concentration while at even strength.
1 shutout in 67 games started isn’t good enough. Perhaps a harder pre-game work out is needed.
Shutouts are rare, and the difference between a goalie who gives up 1 goal in a game and another one who gives up 0 is probably luck and randomness in the long-run. Also, remember that shutouts are very much a team statistic, not just a goalie stat.
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Awesome work!
I’ve been waiting for my head to clear up a bit before even attempting to tackle this post and it was worth the wait. You did a great job of explaining everything, and the analysis and work you put into it is incredible.
One issue that I have, and it isn’t with your data, is the assertion by many that “this year’s D” is to blame for many of our woes. I interpret that as a comparison to last year’s Cup winning D. While what you have presented may support that, I am wondering if there really is much difference. At a high level, I can see that this year’s D and goaltending gave up fewer shots per game and just two more goals overall than last year’s team. Perhaps in your spare time, you could perform this analysis on last year’s team to see how they measure up?
The Pens will be back.
by PensAreYourDaddy on Jun 16, 2010 11:32 AM EDT reply actions
If the D’s to blame, the holes are obvious: Gill and Scuderi. Never really replaced them. The musical chairs caused by injuries didn’t make things any better.
-Bryan
by bryanewyatt on Jun 16, 2010 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions
First off, thanks a ton for the compliments PAYD. I really appreciate them.
I interpret that as a comparison to last year’s Cup winning D.
I was trying to primarily measure this year’s D against the other 29 teams from this year.
As to the difference (if any) between this year’s Penguins’ D and last year’s, I personally don’t think there was a ton. The loss of Gill and Scuds certainly hurt, and the run of injuries that we had to deal with the fall and early winter really put our defense corps in a bind (I mean, when Chris Lee is called up, you know things are bad). But overall, I didn’t subjectively perceive a huge difference. Part of the problem was also the forwards. I thought the defensive play from our forward group dropped off considerably this year, and they’re as much to blame in my mind as our defensemen.
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As to the difference (if any) between this year’s Penguins’ D and last year’s, I personally don’t think there was a ton.
I disagree on that point, especially in the playoffs. IMHO, the Pens went from having 3 shut-down D-men (Gill, Scuds, Orpik) to having 1. Eaton, Letang, and Gogo are good, but they were neither that good nor in that (shutdown D) way.
Just my opinion, though.
-Bryan
Well, we both agree that the Pens missed them, but the question is how much. It’s tough to say for sure, but hopefully we won’t be thinking about it next season, as we’ll have a solid defense from top to bottom (this is an optimistic point of view).
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Thanks GoPens! It’s a lot of dog work to pull that together. And there’s both art and science in looking at what’s important.
Meminisse Sed Providere
Wow
Amazing research! Great correlation between “team defense” and goalie stats. Great work!
http://www.hockeyplumber.com/
Thank you so much
Hello,
I never comment here but I felt the need to thank you for doing this analysis. I have been a huge Fleury fan since we drafted him and I am perennially sick to my stomach of fans badmouthing and doubting him. I said again and again this season that defensive breakdowns were responsible for a large proportion of his goals allowed, and I am glad that someone finally took the time to produce a pretty sound data set to support that notion.
You’re welcome Satanic.
I undertook this analysis to try and find out if Fleury actually had a really bad season. Whatever the results, I was hoping they’d answer some important questions. And it looks like our shaky defense was just as responsible as a lot of us thought.
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While I'm signed in...
Do you have any data that can be used to see how Bylsma shapes up against others in his first full season as an NHL coach? I think it is often over looked that coaches still need to learn, just like players, and I suspect he did pretty well for a first year coach. 101 pts and 2nd round of the playoffs.

























