Pens Trade For Dan Hamhuis' Rights
by Jay32600 on Jun 25, 2010 11:17 PM EDT
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Pens have traded their 2011 third rounder to Philly for Hamhuis' negotiating rights.
I would assume this spells the end for Gonchar, considering Hamhuis is supposedly asking for around $5 million per season.
I personally like this move.....Hamhuis is younger and more of a stay at home defenseman. We were going to have to part ways with Gonchar within the next few years anyway. Letang and Goligoski will have to step up and fill the offensive void (also wonder if this means Leopold will be resigned). I would envision the following D-pairings:
Orpik--Letang
Hamhuis--Leopold
Goligoski-Lovejoy
What does everyone else think?
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this move should spell the end to GONCHARS days in da BURGH over… please gonch, wave your no trade & let us trade ur rights for something
That would be a good business move on his part, considering he was injured last season and missed a bunch of games this year with a broken wrist.
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If Sarge wanted to stay so bad he would realize that he’s getting old, he’s been getting injured, and he shouldn’t be asking for the amount and time that he wants. It’s his fault. Thanks man, but pack your bags.
"Half the game is mental, the other half is being mental." - Jim McKenny
Didn’t he lose the farm with some dodgy investments last summer, along with some other NHL and baseball players? I could be wrong here. But if I’m right or close, he’s got quite a bit of money to recoup and not a lot of time left to do it. I know most of us will never see millions of dollars in our lifetimes, nevermind a year, but I’ve been thinking that could be a motivation.
"Darling, you say Brooks Orpik 'checked' that guy. He did not 'get under him and put him into the wall'."--Beloved to me, Winter 2007
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by GreenEyedLilo on Jun 26, 2010 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions
I wouldn’t say he lost the farm, but he definitely lost some money with the whole Madoff thing.
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Ok, so that’s two things I don’t understand. The first being pro-athletes being bummed about what pick or round they were chosen in, forgetting that fact that they will be playing a game for a career, and making more money than their family name has ever made. Suck it up kids.
The second being this fad that you need to have a manager, an agent, and a financial manager/planner that could and most likely screw you over in the long run and robbing you of millions. How did you survive the first 20 years of life without a manager or someone telling you how to spend your money?
What happened to the days where ball players and athletes would talk directly to the owners and GMs and negotiate deals? Cut out the middle men.
"Half the game is mental, the other half is being mental." - Jim McKenny
That changed in the 60s when the players decided to join unions and have people represent them. There isn’t anything inherently bad about a group of professional athletes being in a union, especially when you consider hockey players and the damage done to their bodies on a nightly basis during the season. But at some point the player representation turned into over-representation, which ultimately started to get more sway in negotiations than players. It’s a mental game by a lot of agents too. A player may be happy in a city or with a team, but some guy in a suit will come along and assure them they can make a ton of money playing in City X.
Read up on Alan Eagleson when you get a chance. Great story about how any jerk can infiltrate a locker room and almost completely destroy a sport.
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Glad to see Eagleson gone! I remember those days well. In terms of agents, I have heard more players recently contributing more to their own careers. Many forget that they hire these guys and others to be representatives. They allow them to take over. The player still needs to be in the drivers seat, set the rules and direct the traffic. Hopefully, more will see that instead of sitting back and expecting everyone else to take care of the business side without them having to do anything.
Ah yes, the 60s. When I hear 60s sports I immediately think of baseball, which I think was the best time for baseball- from the late 40s to the late 60s, early 70s. One of my dream jobs would have been to be a sports journalist during that time.
I remember hearing all of the stories about players getting on the subways and trains after games to go home and sitting with the fans too, talking about the game, or playing during the season and then going back to their real job of managing their hardware store or farm, whatever. Now only a handful of athletes do that and people make such a big deal about it when they do, like it’s so unorthodox.
Have you ever seen that old HBO series from like the early 90s called When It Was a Game? Perfection.
"Half the game is mental, the other half is being mental." - Jim McKenny
Yup, good book too. So is The Boys of Summer by Roger Kahn. That one really captures the lifestyle of these guys after they played. Farmers, ministers and in the case of Roy Campanella, paralyzed. Really a great book. One of my favorites, actually.
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I like the idea of this, but I’m still going to wait and see if something actually comes of it. Maybe they acquired the rights to potentially target another guy elsewhere as part of a package deal or something. Who knows?
Remember when the Pens dished Skoula? Wasn’t he on the Leafs for about 12 hrs?
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Hamhuis isn’t Skoula.
Judges?
Ya, Hamhuis and Skoula are completely different.
"Half the game is mental, the other half is being mental." - Jim McKenny
I’m aware of this. I was merely using it as an example.
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It’s true: it’s hard to say how long Hamhuis will stay with the Pens. The next few days should be interesting. (I told someone yesterday that the days leading up to July 1st are like the days of anticipation, events and excitement leading up to Christmas. They didn’t believe me, but it’s true!)
Go, Shero, Go!!! And also Brian Burke.
I think they acquired his rights because they want him. Didn’t Shero draft him while he was in Nashville too? You have that relationship already there.
"Half the game is mental, the other half is being mental." - Jim McKenny
It’s an obvious connection. I was just playing Devil’s advocate.
But not Devils in the sense of hockey.
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PS – If we’re doing the connection thing, then he also traded for Eaton in Nashville and acquired him again with the Pens. Doesn’t necessarily mean he’s going to sign him though.
Again, just throwing it out there.
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Looking at your pairings, I think I’d prefer to see Gogo & Lovejoy paired with a veteran. At least at first. Maybe switch Leo & Lovejoy?
Also … I’ll be sad if Eaton is gone, but I’ll adjust.
Go, Shero, Go!!! And also Brian Burke.
The fact of the matter is, I don’t know why everyone is ragging on Gonch. He’s the best D on the market, including Hamhuis. For the same price, let’s stick with what we got cuz he’s got all the intangibles too. Not to mention Letang and Gogo are still a couple years away from realizing their potential. All we gotta do is look at our record without Sarge. If he walks away, it’s gonna be worse than losing Malone or Scuds, mark my words. He’s been my 3rd fave Penguin for the last few years.
"Those goals just rip the heart right out of your stomach." - Edzo
No one is ragging on Sarge except for the reason that he wants too much money for too long and won’t budge on that, and he’s getting to the point/age where he’s not worth it. Yes, we should try to keep him, but if it comes at the price of milking us dry, then there is no way it’s going to happen. If he really wants to stay he will decide so.
"Half the game is mental, the other half is being mental." - Jim McKenny
If he were 37 or 38, I’d understand more, but having recently turned 36, he’s still got a few good years left in him. And I heard he’d take 2 years if he retained the same salary. So if we’d pay 5 mil to Hamhuis, let’s pay 5 mil instead to Gonch and keep him around.
"Those goals just rip the heart right out of your stomach." - Edzo
Exactly this. I think most of us are going to be sad to see him go, and are hoping that he ends up somewhere like Vancouver, Minnesota or Dallas, where we don’t have to play against him much …
Go, Shero, Go!!! And also Brian Burke.
We all know Sarge is deadly on the pp, but I think we’d be in a good position if Crosby and Malkin got to play against him a lot at even strength. He isn’t a great defender, and their speed and stick-handling would give Gonch fits.
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Yeah, but, as you said … PP. Our PK is pretty good, but I’d rather not have to go against a Gonch-directed PP.
Go, Shero, Go!!! And also Brian Burke.
I’d take that though because the pp is minuscule compared to the time team’s spend at ES. But, unfortunately, Gonch’s signing probably won’t depend on where we want him to go…
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Heh … true. But we can pretend that our desires impact the unfolding of the universe, can’t we? :)
Go, Shero, Go!!! And also Brian Burke.
Plus no team wants to be at a point in the season where they look at an expensive, overpaid vet and start to think about who they could’ve gotten instead.
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Exactly. Shero has said that the players that want to be on the team will be on the team. Since it looks like that statement is also mutual (the Pens want Gonch…at least they did), if Gonch would’ve wanted to be on the team, I think we would’ve signed him by now.
I've told [a 9 months pregnant] Nathalie that she can't have the baby on a game night. I'm not missing a playoff game. -Mario Lemieux in 1993
by PensFan8725 on Jun 26, 2010 12:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Judging from the stats I’ve seen so far, Hamhuis doesn’t appear to be worth more than $3.5-4 million a year. If Shero can swing a deal with these numbers, then I think this would be a good overall signing.
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That is the price I thought was reasonable, however reports in Philly were that he wanted $5mil and top-line minutes. Which is why the Flyers didn’t sign him
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reports in Philly were that he wanted $5mil and top-line minutes.
Yeesh. If he’s sticking to his guns on this one then I don’t think the Pens should sign him to a contract of that size.
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I was surprised to hear the same report from another Flyers fan.That’s a pretty big pay jump for him, isn’t it? Shero is magic, though … so I’m going to choose to trust in him until all this play out and we have alternate evidence.
Go, Shero, Go!!! And also Brian Burke.
Also he was getting $2.5 this year and had a $2mil cap hit
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This is also a big point for me…Hamhuis did not play well enough this year to justify a 100% raise.
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Shero might be betting on Dr. Ben Lovejoy being NHL ready.
by SlayerGhaleon on Jun 26, 2010 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions
He could’ve been asking for a higher price because he really didn’t want to sign with the Flyers. Thus making his offer a stinker in hopes that he’d be dealt again to a team that he’s more interested in.
"Play without fear and I'll meet you at Center Ice" - Mario Lemieux
"I think Philly has an unbelievable defense corps," said Hamhuis. “To join a corps like that makes the Flyers one of the tougher ones in the league. To play against the teams from the East, the conference has a lot of great forwards. Watching the playoffs, having a great defense will get you a long way.”
He is also herd saying he and his Family want to live out West.
And when you add the news that that his agent told Le Burn
We did not present a framework for a contract to Flyers at any point, nor indicate any salary demands,
He wants to test the market!
Philly didn’t want to play, so the moved him
Unless your Vancouver, The Ducks, or the Sharks, your not getting a discount on him
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by Prometheus74 on Jun 26, 2010 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Indeed.
This is certainly a very pleasant surprise. I assumed our chances of getting Hamhuis were pretty much nil, once Philly traded for his rights. Hopefully, we can get him to come down off those demands.
Hey, an out is an out - unless you're Mario, in which case it's probably two outs. -UtesFan89
Hard work always beats talent if talent doesn't work hard.
Just for kicks, what does everyone think of this deal for Philly? In essence, they give up Ryan Parent for a third-rounder and a seventh-rounder.
Hey, an out is an out - unless you're Mario, in which case it's probably two outs. -UtesFan89
Hard work always beats talent if talent doesn't work hard.
The 7th round is of little consequence, but it could always be used as a throw in sort of thing. I never underestimate a third rounder (Kris Letang) or even a fourth rounder for that matter (Tyler Kennedy). But 7th? Meh.
But hey, they got something out of it.
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If MTL hadn’t spent a ninth rounder or whatever on some no-name Slovakian goalie…
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by red army line on Jun 26, 2010 9:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Ummmm....
I would never spend 5 million on Hamhuis good player but not worth that amount. He’s 27 young, yes, but I’m not seeing a 5 million dollar upside if we based it off this than J Staal should be making around 8 million. Letangs contract was worth it because of his age and observable upside, Hamhuis nawww no one really knew him until this years trade deadline.
I wish Burke wasn’t being so stingy with Kabs I would like seeing him back there but not worth a top 6 forward plus a pick.
Hamhuis nawww no one really knew him until this years trade deadline.
Everybody with a brain knew who he was.
Not really.
Your telling me that Hamhuis was a household name and that the majority of hockey fans knew what he’s capable of let alone who he played for? Doubtful he’s always flew under the radar except on draft day in 2001. He played for Nashville if you don’t recall no one really knows or cares about players there unless your name is Shea Weber
Fans look for big name players hence Eaton consistently never getting enough credit and I think the same was done with Hamhuis IMO
by Geno McFleury on Jun 26, 2010 12:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Fans look for big name players hence Eaton consistently never getting enough credit and I think the same was done with Hamhuis IMO
That’s basically what I was saying. The people with brains recognized Hamhuis for the great defensive player he was, while the majority of people had no idea who he was until this offseason.
As you pointed out, a lack of credit does not indicate a player’s true worth.
by SlayerGhaleon on Jun 26, 2010 1:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Ok ya I understand now its a shame he did well in Nashville and maybe is searching for that credit he deserves, but in all honesty I don’t think he’s worth 5 million I can see why he wouldn’t want to sign with Philly since their D depth is good and he wouldn’t get the minutes he wanted. Maybe the more mins Pitt can offer will make him go down a little. The Defense UFA market is pretty good I’d like to have Hamhuis but not a 5 mill for 4+ years!
by Geno McFleury on Jun 26, 2010 1:05 AM EDT up reply actions
Wow
I was upset a couple of days ago when the Flyers got his rights. I’m excited at what he could do if we sign him. We need more defensive defensemen that isn’t Gonchar. I love the pick of Beau Bennett. He isn’t ready but his potential at the wing is exciting. I’m hopeful we resign Mark Eaton. The d-pairings would be Orpik-Lovejoy Hamhuis-Goligoski Eaton Letang. I’m also hopeful we can get a deal for Kris Versteeg. At the moment Chicago’s asking price is too big. Hopefully it can decrease. I can see it:
Forwards:
Kunitz Crosby Versteeg
Tangradi Malkin Dupuis
Cooke Staal Kennedy
Rupp Talbot Adams
Defense:
Orpik Lovejoy
Goligoski Hamhuis
Eaton Letang
Goalies:
Fleury
Johnson
Well, we can at least be certain about the goalies.
The Pens will be back.
by PensAreYourDaddy on Jun 26, 2010 12:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Problem is, who from our current roster goes in exchange for Versteeg? Personally I would forgive the loss of Gonchar if we picked up Bobby Ryan. What a player that kid’s gonna be/is.
"Those goals just rip the heart right out of your stomach." - Edzo
He’ll always be “Silver” to me.
The Pens will be back.
by PensAreYourDaddy on Jun 26, 2010 12:43 AM EDT up reply actions
He’ll always have to stand below Sid in the draft AND on the podium!
I've told [a 9 months pregnant] Nathalie that she can't have the baby on a game night. I'm not missing a playoff game. -Mario Lemieux in 1993
by PensFan8725 on Jun 26, 2010 12:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Not Sure
From what I’ve heard Chicago is asking alot for Versteeg. I’d love to have him or Bobby Ryan. The price is big for both. Maybe we give up Kennedy a prospect and a draft pick for this year and 2 picks for next year? I’m not sure. But, Versteeg or Ryan would be perfect next to Sid. Maybe we trade Gonchar’s rights to Anaheim along with a pick from this years draft as well as a prospect (Dustin Jeffrey), Tyler Kennedy, first and or second round pick for next year for Ryan? I don’t know but we need at least one winger. I think Tangradi is going to be good. All this would be significant as well as signing Hamhuis. He doesn’t have Gonchar’s offensive ability but not many do. But he can move the puck better than Leopold and is responsible defensively. I said this a couple of days had I known all it would’ve taken to get Nathan Horton is a 2010 first round pick, a 2011 third round pick and a defensemen (Dennis Wideman???) I would’ve signed off on that in a heartbeat. If we had a chance to sign Bobby Ryan it would be for at least 4 million because he said he knows nobody makes more than Getzlaf and Perry who at least make 6 million. So of course he would not make more than Sid and Geno.
Heard on Twitter that CHI is asking for at least a solid young player for Versteeg.
Don’t think Shero would give up Tangradi in that case.
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by Steck It Out on Jun 26, 2010 1:04 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m sure Shero would back off at that price tag as well.
If you look at a winger in this offseason, you gotta go cheap because of the minimal cap space. Maybe get a guy like Kariya or Afinogenov if his price tag comes down.
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by Steck It Out on Jun 26, 2010 1:10 AM EDT up reply actions
One of the smartest moves Shero made was adding Tangradi with Kunitz in the trade for Whitney.. The Fylers showed this year that when you put confidence in young guys like Giroux and Van Riemsdyk it can pay off big at the most important time. I see Tangradi playing with Malkin. If they sign Hamhuis that will leave a winger for Sid and a 6th defensemen (I’m hoping for Mark Eaton). That’s two spots with at least 5-6 million to work with.
That winger with Sid will be Billy G. I’m willing to bet the old man will come back and spend his last year in the Burgh.
I've told [a 9 months pregnant] Nathalie that she can't have the baby on a game night. I'm not missing a playoff game. -Mario Lemieux in 1993
I can’t see Guerin getting first line minutes next year — and this is all on the assumption that he’s even coming back. His ES pts/60 was low considering he played with the best line mates and faced moderately difficult competition. Guerin would have had a 35 point season had he not seen so much time on the pp.
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Well, I think it’s a given that he’s back with the Pens; I think that’s the least he’ll get.
Who do you think would replace him on the Pens OR a guy that we can get under the cap? Realistically.
I've told [a 9 months pregnant] Nathalie that she can't have the baby on a game night. I'm not missing a playoff game. -Mario Lemieux in 1993
There are plenty of players that could get 40-45 points playing with Crosby and getting 4:25 pp ice time per game. A lot of the top 20 or so forwards available on the UFA market have reasonable cap hits and talent.
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Like who?
I’m not questioning you, I’m just too damn lazy to look it up.
I've told [a 9 months pregnant] Nathalie that she can't have the baby on a game night. I'm not missing a playoff game. -Mario Lemieux in 1993
Just look up a list. Everyone from the top, many players you don’t hear of everyday.
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by red army line on Jun 26, 2010 9:02 AM EDT up reply actions
Versteeg is already as effective a player as you’d hope Tangradi will become. Top Six wing with enough creativity to play on the PP and he’s also an effective PKer.
The only reason would be contribution relative to salary cap and what they think Versteeg will command versus produce going forward in relation to Tangradi.
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by Knee high to a duck on Jun 27, 2010 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
IIRC, Versteeg was a third line guy on Chicago, no? I hope Tangradi can blossom into a first line forward who wouldn’t be lower than a 4th or 5th forward on any team. I know that might be unrealistic, but part of it is brought on by the complete lack of wingers we have on our team. He really needs to come through for us (or me, at least) because we’re not going to strike gold in the UFA market.
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Versteeg hit 20 goals this year on a depth chart that featured Patrick Kane and Marian Hossa ahead of him at RW – not too schlubby. He’s a top-6 talent who plays a pretty good defensive game in addition to his offensive production.
Also, his PDO was 979, I’d bet he sees an uptick next season.
Versteeg would slot in immediately as your best scoring winger and you’d see a pretty significant jump in his numbers on ice time alone. It’s something I’d consider very strongly if I were Shero, but if Buff got a 1st and a decent prospect, Versteeg is going to cost more than that.
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by Knee high to a duck on Jun 27, 2010 9:48 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
That’s a well-phrased argument for Versteeg.
I also think it might be a bit more realistic to acquire him than you might think — only because Buff had a great playoffs while Versteeg wasn’t so hot, so he’ll be undervalued at this juncture.
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No! Bobby’s gonna come to the Flyers. He’s a Cherry Hill boy that grew up going to Flyers games. It would be painful to watch him 6 times a year playing against us with the Pens…
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jun 26, 2010 1:28 AM EDT up reply actions
How can the Flyers afford him. They have to think about getting Coburn resigned and a goalie add that to Briere, Richards, Carter, Pronger, Timonen and Gagne. What about Carle? What are the deals for Giroux and Van Riemsdyk?
If Bobby comes in, Carter/Briere go. We definitely can’t keep all of them. Carle is signed to a very nice contract for two more seasons. Giroux’s got another year, JVR’s got another two. But then Timonen will come off the books.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jun 26, 2010 1:34 AM EDT up reply actions
Just joining the party
This whole deal is exciting, hopefully we get a deal done at a reasonable price…I love Shero!
I don’t know too much about Hamhuis though? From what I hear, he’s more of a defensive defender than a offensive defender. Fill me in on this guy.
I've told [a 9 months pregnant] Nathalie that she can't have the baby on a game night. I'm not missing a playoff game. -Mario Lemieux in 1993
Would it be too much to want both Hamhuis and Gonchar?
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/penguins/s_687742.html
says that the negotiations between Gonchar and the Pens aren’t far apart, which makes me think that they have at least a 50/50 chance of keeping him… and they wouldn’t have traded for the rights of Hamhuis if they didn’t think there was at least a decent chance to get him.
Getting both would mean we’re basically capped out, but that would leave us pretty stout on defense… I would be sad to see Eaton go though :(
I’m sorry, but I don’t think there’s anyway we get both guys…
I've told [a 9 months pregnant] Nathalie that she can't have the baby on a game night. I'm not missing a playoff game. -Mario Lemieux in 1993
by PensFan8725 on Jun 26, 2010 12:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Pittsburgh wouldn’t have enough cap space for both guys.
If my answers frighten you then you should cease asking scary questions.
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by Steck It Out on Jun 26, 2010 1:03 AM EDT up reply actions
Interesting re-tweet from Elliote Friedman:
Hamhuis agent Wade Arnott: “We did not present a (contract) framework to Flyers…nor indicate any demands.”
Weird.
Go, Shero, Go!!! And also Brian Burke.
Huh. That is weird….wtf were the Flyers doing then? Seriously.
I've told [a 9 months pregnant] Nathalie that she can't have the baby on a game night. I'm not missing a playoff game. -Mario Lemieux in 1993
Flyers are probably gonna be more concerned with getting a goalie than strengthening the D corps. Maybe make a play for Nabokov’s rights.
Remember that Coburn’s an RFA, too. I’m pretty sure they’d want to resign him over signing Hamhuis to a big contract.
If my answers frighten you then you should cease asking scary questions.
"It's not fair. He's just a pitcher." - Dave Jageler
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by Steck It Out on Jun 26, 2010 1:11 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m convinced that if the Flyers want a legit starting goalie, they’re going to have to move Carter or Briere. I don’t see any other way around it.
Hockey Blogger at Pensburgh.com
Or be really really shitty next season and draft a goalie really high in the draft. Like a Flower.
It would sure help us out.
I've told [a 9 months pregnant] Nathalie that she can't have the baby on a game night. I'm not missing a playoff game. -Mario Lemieux in 1993
Heh. I’m not sure that’ll happen. You know the Flyers – always looking for reliable goaltending.
I wouldn’t have been surprised had they moved up and gotten Campbell.
If my answers frighten you then you should cease asking scary questions.
"It's not fair. He's just a pitcher." - Dave Jageler
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by Steck It Out on Jun 26, 2010 1:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Well, that goaltending worked out pretty well this year. In all seriousness, if that’s the best they could do on their 6th and 7th goalie of the year, they’re doing ok. I thought Boucher did well for himself and should’ve replaced Leighton in the Final (but even Leighton did ok).
I've told [a 9 months pregnant] Nathalie that she can't have the baby on a game night. I'm not missing a playoff game. -Mario Lemieux in 1993
Boucher and Leighton are not long-term answers though. Had it not been for MTL’s luck doing a 180 in the Eastern Finals, Philly would have been wiped clean in 4 or games.
Hockey Blogger at Pensburgh.com
Oh yeah I realize that…but they were kind of like Hossa’s for us (loosely). Got us to the Final, but were more of a rental.
All I’m saying is that they did pretty well with what they had.
I've told [a 9 months pregnant] Nathalie that she can't have the baby on a game night. I'm not missing a playoff game. -Mario Lemieux in 1993
Leighton got exposed in the Finals…he played Halak-like up until that point. The goaltending let down the Flyers against the Blackhawks.
Boucher won them the first round. Leighton won them the next two. I guess the magic had to run out at some point.
They’re gonna need a long-term guy eventually. So I wouldn’t be surprised if they moved up and drafted Pickard tomorrow, who I thought should have been picked over the guy the ’Yotes drafted.
If my answers frighten you then you should cease asking scary questions.
"It's not fair. He's just a pitcher." - Dave Jageler
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by Steck It Out on Jun 26, 2010 1:21 AM EDT up reply actions
They’re gonna need a long-term guy eventually.
Quit it with that nonsense….=]
They can keep other team’s backups as starters…it’s cool with me.
I've told [a 9 months pregnant] Nathalie that she can't have the baby on a game night. I'm not missing a playoff game. -Mario Lemieux in 1993
You know it’s cool with me as well!
If my answers frighten you then you should cease asking scary questions.
"It's not fair. He's just a pitcher." - Dave Jageler
Sprechen sie Englisch?
by Steck It Out on Jun 26, 2010 1:25 AM EDT up reply actions
Great! That makes two of us.
I've told [a 9 months pregnant] Nathalie that she can't have the baby on a game night. I'm not missing a playoff game. -Mario Lemieux in 1993
I’m pretty sure everyone over at JR would agree with you as well. So we’re a pretty large contingency!
If my answers frighten you then you should cease asking scary questions.
"It's not fair. He's just a pitcher." - Dave Jageler
Sprechen sie Englisch?
by Steck It Out on Jun 26, 2010 1:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, but you only play them 4 times a year. Have fun playing against the powerhouses of the Panthers, Hurricanes, Thrashers, and the Lightning. We’re all glad we’re not you guys!
I've told [a 9 months pregnant] Nathalie that she can't have the baby on a game night. I'm not missing a playoff game. -Mario Lemieux in 1993
I shudder in my boots as we face them.
The division will be a lot better in the future, though. Tampa has Yzerman, so they’ll actually do, y’know, good hockey moves and stuff.
And I like what Tallon’s doing in FLA, as showcased tonight. Stockpiling picks and trading for young talent…if they draft right (which I think they are), they’ll be GOOD down the road.
And we were 25-7-8 against the Atlantic and Northeast Divisions last year, so we didn’t suck all of the SE Division’s blood. :D
If my answers frighten you then you should cease asking scary questions.
"It's not fair. He's just a pitcher." - Dave Jageler
Sprechen sie Englisch?
by Steck It Out on Jun 26, 2010 1:35 AM EDT up reply actions
No doubt..
With the salary cap, the NHL isn’t like MLB. The organizations of power shift for decade from decade (or even less than that now).
I've told [a 9 months pregnant] Nathalie that she can't have the baby on a game night. I'm not missing a playoff game. -Mario Lemieux in 1993
The Caps and Pens were perfect examples of that. Same with the Blackhawks. All three drafted in the top three in the 2004 Draft, and look where all three are now.
It just depends on the plans teams want to use. Teams that build through the draft (again, like the Caps, Pens and Blackhawks) end up being better in the long term. The Rangers are like the Redskins of the NHL, and look where it’s gotten them.
For some teams, it takes longer, and for others, it’s “win-now”. You end up seeing the long-term plan teams be more successful in the end, and it showcases long-term building to the other teams in the league.
Hopefully we can see more of it in the future.
If my answers frighten you then you should cease asking scary questions.
"It's not fair. He's just a pitcher." - Dave Jageler
Sprechen sie Englisch?
by Steck It Out on Jun 26, 2010 1:44 AM EDT up reply actions
The Rangers are like the Redskins of the NHL, and look where it’s gotten them.
Not so fast with the Rangers….They’re on a 11 game win streak and could start to run away with their division (Angles and all).
Just nitpicking here, but yeah, totally agree with what you said. Things are constantly evolving in the NHL.
I've told [a 9 months pregnant] Nathalie that she can't have the baby on a game night. I'm not missing a playoff game. -Mario Lemieux in 1993
Also look at Philly! Eastern Conference finals in 2004, and look where they are now.
Haha just messing with you, we operate by a different philosophy. While it hasn’t won us a cup (such an easy rebuttal to make that I might as well make it for you), it has allows us to be consistently successful and created so many good memories, which I’m grateful for.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jun 26, 2010 1:47 AM EDT up reply actions
You could say it was a speedy rebuild after you guys got JVR.
But the Flyers were built under draft picks too (Richards, Carter, Giroux, JVR, etc.) and they’ve perennially been a playoff contender.
Now don’t get a goalie! Keep it at playoff CONTENDER status! :P
If my answers frighten you then you should cease asking scary questions.
"It's not fair. He's just a pitcher." - Dave Jageler
Sprechen sie Englisch?
by Steck It Out on Jun 26, 2010 1:49 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah although JVR wasn’t part of that rebuild. That rebuild was really mostly thanks to the Forsberg trade. At the deadline we trade Foppa to Nashville for a 1st, a 3rd, Scottie Upshall and Ryan Parent. Then before July 1 they trade the 1st back to Nashville for the rights to Kimmo Timonen and Scott Hartnell, who then immediately sign. Danny Briere was signed on July 1 as UFA. Joffrey Lupul was acquired during the season as well. Richards and Carter decided to turn into beasts next season and there we go: dead last in the league to Eastern Conference finalists in a year.
But I agree, the Flyers have built a lot through draft picks. But they were generally later round. Giroux, Gagne and Richards were all in the 20s. Carter was a #11. JVR at #2 is the highest pick the Flyers have ever earnt (of course if it wasn’t for the lottery we would’ve got Kane at #1 but anyway…)
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jun 26, 2010 1:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Well, the goalie market has some guys on the cheap as well. They could make a move for Biron again, or even Ellis.
I’m not sure of their cap situation, but I heard a few rumors tonight about them being interested in Nabokov. I guess they’ve got room in that case.
If my answers frighten you then you should cease asking scary questions.
"It's not fair. He's just a pitcher." - Dave Jageler
Sprechen sie Englisch?
by Steck It Out on Jun 26, 2010 1:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah that Coburn is warrior. But he’s terrible because he’s on the Flyers! I’m kidding, he’s no Pronger, but he’s definitely worth keeping.
Jesus. If the Flyers sign Nabokov….oh boy. No.
I've told [a 9 months pregnant] Nathalie that she can't have the baby on a game night. I'm not missing a playoff game. -Mario Lemieux in 1993
Nabby’s one of my favorites, but the guy needs to perform in the playoffs. He’s getting old – I’m sure he’ll want a shot at a Cup, and seeing PHI get to the Finals might just push him to sign there.
Which would make PIT – PHI and WAS – PHI games even more fun :D
If my answers frighten you then you should cease asking scary questions.
"It's not fair. He's just a pitcher." - Dave Jageler
Sprechen sie Englisch?
by Steck It Out on Jun 26, 2010 1:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Dude, I hear ya. Nabby can’t do shit in the postseason. So much for it being all Jumbo Joe’s fault.
I've told [a 9 months pregnant] Nathalie that she can't have the baby on a game night. I'm not missing a playoff game. -Mario Lemieux in 1993
That guy…aw man, I feel for the Sharks. Always do well during the regular season and then come playoffs…drop like a rock.
Though they did go to the conference finals this year. I’m hoping my Caps can avoid being Sharks East.
If my answers frighten you then you should cease asking scary questions.
"It's not fair. He's just a pitcher." - Dave Jageler
Sprechen sie Englisch?
by Steck It Out on Jun 26, 2010 1:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Well,OV may not know what it takes to win a Cup.But that’s only because his teammates and his coach have let him down before he’s even gotten to experience the conference finals. I believe he’ll get there one day, but a lot of other people have to get their heads out of their asses.
I've told [a 9 months pregnant] Nathalie that she can't have the baby on a game night. I'm not missing a playoff game. -Mario Lemieux in 1993
The guy wants to win the Cup more than anything else. It’s not that he doesn’t know what it takes. There’s a difference between knowing what you want and going out to get it. It’s a team game, though, and it means all cylinders have to be running in order to go all the way.
They know they can win, they just have to go get it, and I know they will hopefully soon (at least in my lifetime – thank goodness I’m still young)
If my answers frighten you then you should cease asking scary questions.
"It's not fair. He's just a pitcher." - Dave Jageler
Sprechen sie Englisch?
by Steck It Out on Jun 26, 2010 1:31 AM EDT up reply actions
To me, knowing what it takes means experience. OV hasn’t gotten past the Semis, not that it’s his fault.
The Pens young core got shown by the Wings what it takes to win a Cup and came back next year with much more experience to beat them. That’s the point that I was trying to make.
I believe that OV and Sid really don’t like each other, but they both realize that they share the same passions and the same goals. For that, and for as much as they dislike each other, I think they have a tremendous amount of respect for each other.
I've told [a 9 months pregnant] Nathalie that she can't have the baby on a game night. I'm not missing a playoff game. -Mario Lemieux in 1993
It really takes a whole team to get far. To me, guys like Green, Semin, and Fleischmann, guys who didn’t show up at all, hurt the team because they weren’t doing anything. It put more pressure on Ovie, Backstrom, Knuble, etc. to make up for it, and when they can’t, it just doesn’t work. One domino can tip the whole thing over. They’re gaining more experience and seeing what it takes to perform in the playoffs, and I thought they had that after two years in the playoffs, but sometimes, you can never be experienced enough, I guess.
I agree with you on your second point, and I feel the same way as a fan. I may not like Crosby, but he’s a hell of a player, and I respect him as a great player.
If my answers frighten you then you should cease asking scary questions.
"It's not fair. He's just a pitcher." - Dave Jageler
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by Steck It Out on Jun 26, 2010 1:40 AM EDT up reply actions
If the Fylers sign Nabokov. How can they afford all of those players? Richards Carter Briere Gagne Pronger Timonen as well as trying to keep Coburn. What about Carle? Giroux and Van Riemsdyk’s entry deals should be ending in a year or two. Remember a couple of years ago when some of us were worried when the Ranger signed Drury and Gomez while the Fylers got Briere? Those deals haven’t looked too good for either side so I’m not too concerned about a goalie who doesn’t play good when it maters the most.
by kirblu22 on Jun 26, 2010 1:27 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Good point.
Rec’d
Nabby still scares me a bit, though.
I've told [a 9 months pregnant] Nathalie that she can't have the baby on a game night. I'm not missing a playoff game. -Mario Lemieux in 1993
Now that Hamhuis is not getting signed, we can afford Nabokov or another good goaltender in our cap. So that’s not a major issue.
Carle is signed at 3 million for another two seasons. Coburn isn’t likely to get more than 3 this season and now that Hamhuis is gone he’ll definitely be staying. I’m one of those Flyers fans who thinks Carter will have to go to keep Giroux, Leino and JVR. But it’s probably not the right time or place to discuss that issue.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jun 26, 2010 1:32 AM EDT up reply actions
What do you think the Flyers can get for Carter? He’s a 40 goals a year type of guy. Wouldn’t it be better to trade Briere?
Briere’s contract is dead weight. They’re not gonna move him unless they trade bad contracts. Plus, he played well for them in this year’s playoffs, so I think they’ll keep him.
Carter, on the other hand, should fetch maybe a high draft pick/good prospect + lower draft picks/so-so prospects.
I think a deal like the Ballard one today could compare to a Carter deal, though I really thought Vancouver overpaid like hell.
If my answers frighten you then you should cease asking scary questions.
"It's not fair. He's just a pitcher." - Dave Jageler
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by Steck It Out on Jun 26, 2010 1:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Briere has a tought contract to move with an NMC to make things even more difficult. And as Steck It Out has pointed out, he was a star in the playoffs. Did you know he was one point away from tying Gretzky’s record for most points in a Stanley Cup Finals? Wayne Gretzky! Put the names next to each other: Daniel Briere. Wayne Gretzky. Anyway, my point is he’s worth every cent in the playoffs.
Some reckon Carter is a playoff choker. I don’t think that’s fair. However he has proven that we don’t need him to get to the Cup Finals. Also Carter is reluctant to play wing, and we have too many centers for him not to be playing wing. He’s also got a moveable and valuable contract, and is a potentially consistent 40 goal scorer.
Lots of trade scenarios have been poured out on BSH. Some high profile prospect like Bernier is someone we would like to have. Bobby Ryan if Anaheim can’t get him signed is really appealing as well, as Bobby could step in and be our top line winger straight away.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jun 26, 2010 1:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Or you can have a top prospect like Tomas Fleischmann!
Okay, we’ll throw in John Erskine too. Not enough? How about Tom Poti!
If my answers frighten you then you should cease asking scary questions.
"It's not fair. He's just a pitcher." - Dave Jageler
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by Steck It Out on Jun 26, 2010 1:45 AM EDT up reply actions
You’re right. I’m being more than generous. It’s a fire sale!
If my answers frighten you then you should cease asking scary questions.
"It's not fair. He's just a pitcher." - Dave Jageler
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by Steck It Out on Jun 26, 2010 1:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Let’s start with Neuvirth and work it out from there ;)
Realistically though, Carter isn’t going to the Caps, Rags, Devils, Islanders or Pens and is most likely not going to stay in the east if we trade him.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jun 26, 2010 1:49 AM EDT up reply actions
You break my heart. You do.
If my answers frighten you then you should cease asking scary questions.
"It's not fair. He's just a pitcher." - Dave Jageler
Sprechen sie Englisch?
by Steck It Out on Jun 26, 2010 1:50 AM EDT up reply actions
The Fylers are fortunate to have so many options. If they have trade a Jeff Carter and/or Simon Gagne. They’ll have Giroux and Van Riemsdyk. Plus, Leino (I don’t know why the Wings traded him for nothing. Last year during the finals McGuire said Babcock thought Leino was on of their best players. It didn’t make sense to trade him especially for nothing.)
I think Franzen was coming back from injury and they didn’t have enough cap space to keep Leino on the roster. They would be forced to send him down to the AHL, but then he would be picked up from waivers for literally nothing. So they desperately searched for an offer, and out of nowhere comes Paul Holmgren giving them a 5th rounder and there we go :)
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jun 26, 2010 1:45 AM EDT up reply actions
The Flyers were probably trying to present an offer but were completely shut-out by Hamhuis and his agent. Hamhuis didn’t want to go to the Flyers, and probably doesn’t want to go to the Pens either. We traded a 3rd pick next year, for someone who certainly isn’t going to sign anything before July 1st, when he can hope for an offer (maybe already made under the table
) from the team he wants to play for.
Your last sentence answers the question of why the Flyers traded him to you guys
…certainly isn’t going to sign anything before July 1st, when he can hope for an offer (maybe already made under the table) from the team he wants to play for
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
by Prometheus74 on Jun 28, 2010 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions
looks like Shero talked to Hamhuis's agent today for about 15 minutes
is that good (they talked)?
or
is it bad (b/c so brief)?
neither really
If you have a plan it should not take more than 15 minutes to explain it.
And If know Hamhuis is not going to sign until he sees what the UFA market is like, taking up any more time would be a waste
I believe that Hamhuis is going into the UFA no matter what.
But Hamhuis goes in knowing EXACTLY what Shero is willing to do.
(that is an advantage that 27 other gm do not have)
*Im including Nashville, b/c they are 100% sure they don’t want him
Things will move fast and GMs will not get 15 minutes, and whatever time they do get, they will not get his full attention.
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
by Prometheus74 on Jun 28, 2010 9:46 PM EDT up reply actions
20 bucks says they had a conversation like this:
shero: hey, bud.
hamhuis: hey. what’s up?
shero: wanna have a conversation to freak everyone out? not for too long, but not for too short, either?
hamuis: sounds like fun.
i like the pens, sidney crosby, jordan staal, and typing in capital letters.
by katielynn906 on Jun 28, 2010 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
…
shero: so i’m going to make my angry threatening face
agent: and now i’ll try and make an indignant insulted face
shero: niiiiice. Hope they’re taking photos. I can just imagine the headlines…
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jun 28, 2010 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Couldn’t Ray just give him the old “your brains or your signature will be on that contract” line? Then Hamhuis wakes up with Poni’s head in bed next to him.
The Pens will be back.
by PensAreYourDaddy on Jun 28, 2010 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Hey all,
anybody seen the interview with Ray Shero on the official Pens site yet? There he blatantly states that signing Hamhuis and Gonchar was one of many possible scenarios discussed, one of 20 i believe. So have faith people that as much as we think about all these different scenarios, the Pens management thinks about it even more, they get paid to do it its their job. Personally i feel that Hamhuis is like an isurance policy, but that’s my take, i don’t work for the Pens…
IN SHERO WE TRUST
I love this time of year, what with all the heightened speculation and wonderment at what might be. But I totally agree: TRUST IN SHERO! Plus, a third round draft pick is a pretty decent price to pay for negotiating rights.
Thanks for the info. on the Shero interview.
Go, Shero, Go!!! And also Brian Burke.
As much as it would be great to see the Pens sign Hamhuis and Gonch, I just don’t see that happening.
I do, however, have full faith in Shero and am glad I’m not him right now. I like chatting with you guys about his job a lot more than actually thinking about doing it.
I've told [a 9 months pregnant] Nathalie that she can't have the baby on a game night. I'm not missing a playoff game. -Mario Lemieux in 1993
The Philly Hamhuis experience
Stage 1: Joy. We absolutely robbed Nashville. We’ll pay Hammer 4 million, Coburn 3 and move him to the 5th D-man. And there we go: best defense in the NHL:
Pronger-Carle
Timonen-Hamhuis
Coburn-Krajicek
!!!
Stage 2: Anticipation. Sign a contract already?
Stage 3: Worry. What’s going on? Rumors that he’s been asking for up to 5 million. Also rumors that he doesn’t want to play second fiddle to Kimmo and Pronger.
Stage 4: Dislike. The guy’s not being reasonable.
Stage 5: Good riddance. Let’s go get a goaltender.
Yeah that just about sums it up.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jun 26, 2010 1:37 AM EDT reply actions
Stage 6: Steal underpants
Stage 7: ?
Stage 8: Profit!
by SlayerGhaleon on Jun 26, 2010 1:45 AM EDT up reply actions
I heard he wanted to play for his hometown Canucks, if that’s what you mean.
by SlayerGhaleon on Jun 26, 2010 2:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Someone above was also saying that he wanted to stay in the West. The guy sounds awfully picky. It also sounds like he wants more than the perceived market value. I’m starting to get worried.
I've told [a 9 months pregnant] Nathalie that she can't have the baby on a game night. I'm not missing a playoff game. -Mario Lemieux in 1993
Yes
We’ve heard Vancouver and California is where Hamhuis wants to play. There’s definitely strong indication that he wants to play in the West. Vancouver is his home town. And he just likes California.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jun 26, 2010 2:14 AM EDT up reply actions
this is what the pens need to get back to the stanley cup
offense1st line- crosby 8.7 mil. kunitz 3.7mil. afinogenov 1.5 mil.? 2nd line- malkin 8.7mil. tangradi .845 guerin 1.0 mil.? 3rd line- staal 4.0 mil. cooke 1.8 mil. kennedy.725 4th line- talbot 1.05mil. rupp .825 dupuis 1.4 mil. reserves godard .725 adams .550 defense 1st line letang 3.5mil orpik 3.75 mil 2nd line- gogo 1.8 mil hamhuis 4.0 mil? 3rd line- lovejoy .525 michalek 3.0 mil? reserve-engelland .500 goaltending- fluery 5.0 mil johnson .600 total team salary 59.1 million. 300 thousand under salary cap. total# of players 23 . take away the reserves there would be 20 players with a team salary of 57.4 millio.n 2 million under salary cap. the 4 players with the ? marks would have to agree with this salary, which i think is a far price for what they would sign on the open market and please everybody why do you think eaton needs to be resigned thats just wasted money for a actual good shutdown defense player. ben lovejoy can fill his role for 1.5 million less so there you go….
by Paul Martin 1966 on Jun 26, 2010 2:09 AM EDT reply actions
Gonch Out-Ham In
I think RS acquired Hammy for one of two reasons-to put the fear of God in Gonch or to really go hard after Hammy. Gonch was great but we desperately need another stay at home dman. We have plenty of offensive dman. Plus, Hamm is only 28, and in the middle of his prime, so he is a better long term investment than the three years-5 mill for Gonch believes he can get (the Lord helps the needy not the greedy).
The Fear Of God
Never looked at it that way but it makes sense.
Very interesting—just got up and I read this!
Very curious to see what happens next.
I don’t think the Lord has anything to do with it but it is still a wise statement.
One Who Lives And Breathes All Things Penguins
by PensFanInDenver on Jun 26, 2010 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Paul Holmgren is the best GM in the league
from the perspective of a Penguins fan. This guy regularly uses a shotgun when a sniper’s rifle would be the more appropriate tool. It was much the same with him as a player. Big, bad Paul was always running around in the playoffs doing something tough and stupid while guys like Clark Gillies, and even Bob Nystrom, were frustrating the hell out of him by being tougher, smarter, and skilled. Hey Paul, meet Ray Shero — the Clark Gillies of GMs.
"Never mistake motion for action." - Ernest Hemingway
Could be Negotiating Leverage for Gonchar....
next year’s draft class is supposed to be thin, so a 3rd may not be as big of a deal
and this could light a fire under 55’s ass
if they do sign Hammer instead though
i like Frank’s D Corps Pairings
Bad Math or Shero's Next Announcement?
Projected Lines:
Kunitz- Crosby-Dupuis
Johnson-Malkin-Staal
Cooke-Letestu-Kennedy
Talbot-Adams-Rupp
Fresh Bench: Godard, Guerin
Orpik-Letang
Gogo-Leopold
Gonchar-Hamhuis
Fresh Bench: Eaton, Lovejoy, Engelland
They say Pens have roughly $11.4 mil
This scenario happens at these prices (mil):
Gonch $4
Ham $3
Eaton $2
Leopold $1.4
Guerin $1
This scenario contains many IF’s, but Lovejoy and Engelland could be shopped around for some cap room.
I’m not concerned about the pairings or who is benched, I just wanted to show a bit of dream dealing where Shero pushes the Defense to new levels.
Such a scenario shows serious D, and lets some wingers develop. It leaves plenty of options for PP, though requires a bit of stepping up from the O.
Forgive me if some of these two way contracts and such automatically void any idealizing I’m doing here.
If Gonch and Hamhuis were somehow to both become Penguins, then Eaton will not be resigned. The 7th/8th D-men would be Lovejoy and Engelland. Plus Gonch would be more like 4.5M per year and Hamhuis more like 3.5M per year if they were both to become Penguins that’s the only way we can do it (they are looking for $5M and $4-5M per year respectively)
Obviously still no wingers, but given the lack of wingers on the market still not sure how to fill those needs.
Yeah, I think both of those players are asking a bit much.
So, we need an extra mil and a compromise from those two?
Discount Eaton to 1.5 and drop Engelland?
And maybe we just can’t afford to keep Godard anymore?
by OlympicGold on Jun 26, 2010 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions
I like your thinking
The Pens could drop Godard and then rely on Rupp to fill his role if needed. That could clear up just a little space…
"90% of the game is physical. The other half is mental." - Yogi Berra
good pickup for you guys
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by bestbostonsports on Jun 26, 2010 12:18 PM EDT reply actions
Idea
Negotiating rights to Gonch and 3rd rounder for a top-45 pick. I still want Petr Straka or Jon Merrill
by stoopidtom on Jun 26, 2010 1:26 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
If Shero is serious about signing both Gonchar and Hamhuis for the right prices then I say go for it. I can handle these lines as well as (potential and projection)
Kunitz (20-25 goals)-Crosby (40-45+ goals)-Guerin (20-25 goals)
Tangradi (25-30 goals)-Malkin (40-45+ goals)-Dupuis(20-25 goals)
Cooke (15-20 goals)-Staal (25-30 goals)-Kennedy (15-20 goals)
Rupp (5-10 goals; possibly)-Talbot (15-20 goals)-Adams (5 goals; possibly)
Who wouldn’t want that from your forwards. Yeah the wingers aren’t Kovalchuk, Heatley, Hossa or Gaborik. Even Martin Havlat. But that is the production they can get. When three of your centers can combine for over 100 goals and 200 points that makes up for the lack of production at the wing. I figure 2 years/5 million per year for Gonchar and 5 years/3.5 to 4 million per year for Hamhuis. That should leave at least 1 to1.5 milion for Guerin for this year. With that forward group and a strong defense:
Orpik-Gonchar
Letang-Hamhuis
Goligoski-Lovejoy
Plus Fleury and Johnson in the net. That’s pretty good considering the small room we have in cap space. Now, let’s say we sign Hamhuis and Gonchar walks we can still resign Eaton. D-Pairings would be:
Orpik-Hamhuis
Eaton-Letang
Goligoski-Lovejoy
That is pretty good as well. I know $750,000 isn’t a big deal but I’m pretty sure that is what Eric Godard is making. I’d like for Shero to trade him. I don’t see use for him. Rupp can handle the enforcer role if needed.
Either way Shero seems to know what the major issue was last year and that was the defense. He seems content and focused on making that a priority then scoring wingers for Sid and Geno. I say good for him the defense was terrible. That being said if they get a couple of good defensemen they need to hire a defensive minded assisstant coach and instead of a guy who can run the power play; Granato can do that. If Shero signs two good defensemen along with Orpik, Letang, Goligoski and Lovejoy along with the centers Crosby, Malkin, Staal and let’s not forget Talbot. Plus, Fleury with a solid back up in Johnson. Shero is building the right way up the middle with a great defense and a franchise goalie who has already helped the team to a Stanley Cup.
In the next couple of years I think if two of our draft picks in this year’s draft (Bennett and Kuhnhackl) develop in to the offensive wingers scouts project and the type of wingers we need. Along with Tangradi who should be beside Crosby or Malkin. I’ll say Malkin for this year. As well as Dustin Jeffrey possibly replacing a Mike Rupp or Craig Adams. Such as a third line winger/center who is gritty and has good hockey sense. Simon Despres, Carl Sneep and Brian Strait are close to being ready on defense, Plus, if the cap continues to increase. We won’t have to worry about free agency wingers for Sid or Geno for a long time.
I like your analysis, but I think this is more realistic.
Kunitz (20-25 goals)-Crosby (45-55 goals; I can’t see him going back to playmaking with his linemates)- Guerin (15-20 goals)
Tangradi? (10-15 goals; that may even be a little much)- Malkin (30-35 goals; could be more, as he has the talent for it) – Dupuis (15-20 goals)
Cooke (15-20 goals)- Staal (20-30 goals)- Kennedy (10-15 goals; capable of a little more)
Rupp (5-10 goals) – Talbot (5-10 goals)- Adams (0-5 goals)
From what I read here, God only knows if it’s a guess or not, Shero is almost completely concentrated on D this offseason.
I've told [a 9 months pregnant] Nathalie that she can't have the baby on a game night. I'm not missing a playoff game. -Mario Lemieux in 1993
Shero should be focused on the defense. Like I said this is a good plan. 4 quality centers up the middle including Talbot when he is healthy. A great defense and a franchise goalie. It doesn’t matter who the wingers are when you’re team is built where your three best offensive players are your centers. Plus, a team that has a great defense. Tangradi is developing into a power forward. He can at least score 25 goals. The D should be the top priority. Like I said before if Tangradi develops like he should and two of our draft picks Bennett and Kuhnhackl develop in to the scoring wingers they are projected. Then we don’t have to worry about free agency to look for wingers in the next two years when we already have Tangradi making an impact and these two prospects. If anyone doesn’t know about Kuhnhackl google him his talent is off the charts. He’s leaving Germany to play for the Windsor Spitfires for 2010-2011 season. The same Windsor Spitfires who have won back to back Memorial Cups. The people there are a great judge of talent. Kuhnhackl was rated as the 8th best European skater and we got him in the 3rd round. Hockeysfuture projects him as a second line contributor who is offensively gifted. His dad is Erich Kuhnhackl; considered one of the greatest German players ever. He put up over 700 goals in his career in Germany. The cool thing about Tom Kuhnhackl is that he grew up a Pens fan. He models his game after Sid, favorite player is Sid and his most memorable hockey moment is the Pens winning the cup last year.
Yes, very rosy…even for Geno, but especially for Duper, Tangradi (if he gets that many, he’s rookie of the year hands down), and Talbot(!).
If we get that much goal production with the D corps Shero’s trying to get, we’ll win the President’s Trophy and be well on our way to the Cup. I just don’t see some of those stats happening.
I've told [a 9 months pregnant] Nathalie that she can't have the baby on a game night. I'm not missing a playoff game. -Mario Lemieux in 1993
Without Gonchar who is going to be your guys PP QB? I never understood why your PP wasn’t one of the tops in the NHL, Gonchar was great on the point and you had Crosby and/or Malkin on the ice at all times.
Maybe a forward moves back there? I know Oveckin and Richards have played the point on the PP occasionally before…
Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"
Probably Goligoski. He’s been the PP QB on every team he’s played on.
We don’t know. Personally I’d say it has to do with bad scheming and the loss of Ryan Malone.
by SlayerGhaleon on Jun 27, 2010 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Personally I’d say it has to do with bad scheming and the loss of Ryan Malone.
this.
the Pens really miss Malone on the PP
AND on Malkin’s wing
Goligoski and Letang will be the PP QB’s of the future.
As to why it isn’t great, I think a lot of that is the lack of a quality net-front presence, and the fact that Crosby and Malkin play on the same side of the ice and aren’t used as two effective shooters.
Hockey Blogger at Pensburgh.com
I don’t think of Sid as a shooter in the same way that I think of Malkin as a shooter – Sid has amazing hands and if he’s not at the top of the list for knowing where the puck is going to be before it gets there, he’s on a very short one. He’s most effective around the net, creating problems with his positioning and using those hands to finish short range chances (somehow, there seem to be more when he’s on the ice).
Malkin’s got a wicked shot when he chooses to use it; he’s not quite Kovalchuk back there on the point, but no one is. What he gives up in shooting ability, he should theoretically make up for in distribution. Perhaps if they weren’t passing to each other on the half-wall, they’d get more effective?
Only YOU can prevent idiots from commenting!
by Knee high to a duck on Jun 27, 2010 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree with you that Sid and Malkin are two different types of shooters in general. But specifically on the pp, I tend to think of players in terms of three roles: net-front presence, shooters, and point men. While Crosby is one of the best at digging out pucks around the net and banging in rebounds, I don’t consider him to be a net-front presence on a pp, only because he’s such a talented shooter. I think it’d be a waste to have him standing in front of the goalie for most of the time, instead of out in the middle of the ice forcing goalies and d-men to deal with him head on.
Perhaps if they weren’t passing to each other on the half-wall, they’d get more effective?
Abso-frickin-lutely.
Hockey Blogger at Pensburgh.com
Totally agree with everything said here. Although, with Sid down low, it’s usually golden when he gets the puck, you have to get the puck to your best player as much as possible. Sid standing on the door step waiting is a waste.
I've told [a 9 months pregnant] Nathalie that she can't have the baby on a game night. I'm not missing a playoff game. -Mario Lemieux in 1993
by PensFan8725 on Jun 29, 2010 12:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Beneath the goal line, Sid is the best player in the league, bar-none. If you wanted to run the powerplay through him behind the net, a la Briere in Philadelphia, I bet you could.
Only YOU can prevent idiots from commenting!
by Knee high to a duck on Jun 29, 2010 9:12 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s not a bad idea. I guess a lot of our strategy will depend on who’s manning the point on our pp next year.
Hockey Blogger at Pensburgh.com
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