Which Baby Pens would you bring up?
by mattmac on Jul 12, 2010 1:02 AM EDT
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So our roster is looking quite deep at defence, but with only 2.2 million left in cap, it looks as though DB is going to have to pull up from WBS to fill out the roster.
Right now our lineup looks something like this
| Kunitz | Crosby | Dupuis |
| ? | Malkin | ? |
| Cooke | Staal | Kennedy |
| Rupp | Talbot | Adams |
| Godard | ||
| Michalek | Orpik | |
| Martin | Letang | |
| Goligoski | ? | |
| Fleury | ||
| Johnson |
Now we need to at least promote or find via free agency 2 forwards and 1 defenceman. Here's a quick look at what we have stocked in the WBS http://www.hockeysfuture.com/articles/12146/penguins_ahlechl_prospects200910_review/
Dustin Jeffrey, C/W
Although he started the season playing center and posted three goals and 19 assists in his first 20 games, it was not until Jeffrey shifted to left wing that he became a goal-scoring threat for the Penguins. The biggest change was he started shooting the puck more. So much more that Jeffrey finished the season 10th in the league in shots on goal with 236. In 77 regular-season games, Jeffrey posted 24 goals, 47 assists, a plus-16 rating and registered only 16 penalty minutes. The 6’1 forward was also one of the top contributors on special teams, posting four goals and 15 assists on the power play and three goals and assists on the penalty kill. He is also among the team’s best penalty killers.
In four playoffs games, however, Jeffrey did not fare so well. Often matched against opponents' top lines, the forward finished with only one assist and a minus-five rating.
The switch to wing not only paid dividends for the 22-year-old forward but also for the Penguins organization, as it made parting with winger Luca Caputi at the NHL trade deadline less painful.
Jeffrey’s ability to play on the penalty kill as well as fill a variety of different roles at forward will increase the odds that he will eventually be an NHL contributor.
Mark Letestu, C
It has been a breakout season for the 25-year-old center from Elk Point, Alberta. Despite missing training camp and the first couple games of the season due to arthroscopic knee surgery, Letestu started strong out the gates and at no point slowed, let alone faltered. His consistently strong play earned him multiple call-ups to the NHL, the first being on November 14th and the most recent being against the Montreal Canadiens in the second round of the Stanley Cup playoffs.
As a member of the Wilkes-Barre/Scranton Penguins, Letestu was the team’s No. 1 center and a key offensive contributor, finishing fourth on the team with goals (21) and assists (34) through 63 games. He was also second on the team with a plus-21 rating. In Wilkes-Barre/Scranton’s four playoff losses to Albany, Letestu posted three assists and registered 19 shots.
Eric Tangradi, LW
Although he started his rookie professional season slowly, dislocating his shoulder in only his third game and missing a month of play, Tangradi has emerged as the Penguins prospect with the greatest NHL potential. He started out the season on a checking line with Joe Vitale and Tim Wallace. This allowed the 6’4 225-pound winger to develop his physical game and assimilate to the professional style of play without the added pressure of being depended on for offense. As his game matured and he learned to use his large frame to his advantage, the points started coming with regularity. By the beginning of January, Tangradi was one of the Penguins key contributors and started seeing regular time as a top-six forward and on the power play.
Tangradi would finish out the AHL regular season with 17 goals, including eight on the man-advantage, and 22 assists through 65 games. In his team’s four playoff appearances, Tangradi registered one goal and assist and a plus-two rating.
Nick Johnson, RW
At 6’2 and 202 pounds, Johnson has a prototypical hockey build. He is not afraid to battle in corners for loose pucks nor is he afraid to create havoc around the net. Johnson is also a competent defensive player, able to create turnovers in the neutral zone and has shown a willingness to block shots. He is also considered a calming locker-room presence.
Playing alongside Mark Letestu and Dustin Jeffrey on the Baby Pens top scoring line, Johnson posted 16 goals, 27 assists, a plus-19 rating, and two fights. He also saw regular duty on the man-advantage where he posted four power-play goals.
The 24-year-old’s package of skill, grit, and character make him a versatile forward who should not have any trouble one day finding work in the NHL
Brian Strait, D
The second member of the Baby Penguins shutdown defensive pairing, Strait posted a team-leading plus-22 rating to go along with two goals and 12 assists through 78 games. Like frequent defensive partner Robert Bortuzzo, Strait is known for blocking shots, shutting down passing lanes, and all-around sound defensive play. He is also a strong skater and a steady calming presence who rarely makes mistakes.
Along with increased ice time and responsibilities, expect the 22-year-old Strait to take on a greater leadership role with the team.
Ben Lovejoy, D
A player with size (6’2, 214 lbs), skill, and good on-ice awareness, Lovejoy has shown in his third season with the Penguins organization that he has little left to prove at the AHL level. Through 65 games, Lovejoy posted nine goals, 20 assists, and 92 penalty minutes including two fighting majors. More importantly, he started asserting himself physically in his own zone while still playing a steady defensive game.
After a 12-game stint in 2009-10 in which he at no point looked out of place, the 26-year-old defenseman will be expected to compete for a full-time spot for next season
who do you think we should pull up?
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According to nhlnumbers.com, we have about $3M in cap space.
I think Lovejoy is a shoe-in at this point. The contract Shero just signed him to seems to indicate that he’s our 6th guy. And I’d also call up Tangradi and Jeffrey to fill in on wing. Or you could use cap space to get a wing and/or 7th d-man on the market right now.
Hockey Blogger at Pensburgh.com
Bonuses can only be given on entry level contracts, players coming off serious injury or players over 35 years old. The Pens currently have no one with a shot of making the roster with these contracts, unless you consider Simon Despres’ really outside shot of sticking.
Your point is right though, there isn’t much room and unfortunately some of the question marks are at top 6 wingers that the team will need to be productive. Plus they probably will want to leave as much cap space as possible for trade deadline acquisitions.
"Game's the same. Just got more fierce."
1. Kunitz – Crosby – Tangradi
2. Dupuis/Talbot – Staal – Malkin
3. Cooke – Letestu – Kennedy
4. Rupp – Adams – Dupuis/Talbot
1. Martin – Michalek
1. Letang – Orpik
3. Goligoski – Lovejoy
There are two theories on hitting a knuckleball - unfortunately, neither of them work.
I don’t think they’ll go that route — it’s an awfully big step from the AHL to Sidney Crosby’s line where you’ll get the best checkers/defenders in all of hockey playing you. I don’t know if Tangradi’s ready and the Pens don’t usually throw young players in very quickly. Aside from the studs like Crosby, Malkin and Staal that are top of the heap guys.
Also I don’t like the thought of Letestu as full-time 3C. I don’t think he’s big or gritty enough to keep that line going. Just a personal feeling though, I’d love to see him prove himself to be ready for that role at camp.
"Game's the same. Just got more fierce."
Tangradi- He’ll be fine. I’d be much more comfortable with him playing on a scoring line like he should be as opposed to a shut-down checking line. Making the step from the AHL to the Penguins in general is a big step forward and yes he would be seeing the best defenders. But Sid would obviously take all the heat on that line, leaving Tangradi with a lot more space.
Plus, I think that is his ultimate destination, to play on that line. Sid is a one of a kind playmaker, so why not have Tangradi adjust his game from the beginning to play with him? Give it some time at the beginning of the season and if it’s not working, then make changes, but I think it’s best.
Lestestu- He has impressed me a lot. Any time he plays, good things have happened. No he won’t bring the physical nature of a Staal, but how many 3rd line centers can? We have plenty of defensively adequate forwards, and on a 3rd line, his ability to win faceoffs will be huge. If the objective is to stop the other line, getting puck possession right off the bat helps a ton. He’s earned his spot.
There are two theories on hitting a knuckleball - unfortunately, neither of them work.
I’d be much more comfortable with him playing on a scoring line like he should be as opposed to a shut-down checking line
The Pens 3rd line really isn’t a “shutdown” line, they like to control the puck, keep it in the offensive zone, cycle it down low and against the walls. All traits that fit perfectly for Tangradi’s size and skillset. It’s defense by keeping the puck away from their own net.
If you look at quality of competition, Kunitz and Crosby had it worse than the 3rd line, it’s a bigger jump and more pressure in a role with Crosby. Unless Tangradi has made huge strides from his rookie year, he’s just not ready for that yet.
Plus, I think that is his ultimate destination, to play on that line. Sid is a one of a kind playmaker, so why not have Tangradi adjust his game from the beginning to play with him?
I agree with you and hope being Crosby’s winger is something Tangradi can do. But if it’s a parent’s goal to have their kid go to be a lawyer they don’t have them applying for the bar exam before they finish high school, right? Extreme example, but the point being you have to be prepared, and based off what Tangradi showed, it’s a little too much to ask him to jump from the 3rd line in Wilkes-Barre to the top line in Pittsburgh and expect success.
"Game's the same. Just got more fierce."
That’s all true about the 3rd line. BUT that doesn’t mean they won’t have to play in their own end. Do you feel more comfortable having him play against the world’s best offensive players, or against checking line forwards? I
also don’t know how he’s perfect for that job, when he only played a short while in that role at WBS. He was a top line winger for the vast majority of his season, not a 3rd liner. Plus, say we do have our hearts set on the 3rd line with him – who do you replace? He’s not a center. Cooke is going nowhere. And we’ve been through the Kennedy ordeal – the coaching staff obviously doesn’t think he should be in a top 6 role or he’d have been there already. Only reason he’d move is up a line with Staal, but he’s not a left winger so that won’t work too well.
That analogy is almost a good one. If we are indeed preparing him to be a lawyer however, then wouldn’t the same principle hold true for Crosby, Staal and any player who jumps straight to the NHL? They aren’t theoretically “ready” either, they’re just very skilled. Based off what he’s shown me, we can deduce two things – he has shown good chemistry with Sid in the time they played together in preseason last year and he wasn’t out of place in the NHL at all last year in his one start. If we were willing to give Chris #$%ing Bourque 20 games to make it happen last year, I’m sure willing to give Tangradi time to excel.
There are two theories on hitting a knuckleball - unfortunately, neither of them work.
He was a top line winger for the vast majority of his season, not a 3rd liner.
That’s inaccurate. WB/S’s usual lines towards the end of the season/playoffs were:
Jeffrey-Letestu-Johnson
Conner-Smith-Wallace
There were times due to injury/callups that Tangradi did play Top 6 minutes, and Tangradi did get a lot of PP time, but he was not on a pure top scoring line in WB/S for the majority of last season.
If we were willing to give Chris #$%ing Bourque 20 games to make it happen last year, I’m sure willing to give Tangradi time to excel.
Chris Bourque played 9 minutes a night though. It wasn’t like he was skating on Crosby’s wing every shift (for obvious reasons).
"Game's the same. Just got more fierce."
by Hooks Orpik on Jul 12, 2010 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions
That may be true. But that doesn’t mean he didn’t play on a scoring line during the season.
Yes, Bourque did only play 9 minutes – partially because he wasn’t doing much of anything – but he still got 20 starts. That’s my point. Tangradi should at least get that. Whether it’s all on Crosby’s line or not, he still deserves his time with in the NHL to prove himself. If it works, then he should stay, if not then it doesn’t. But here’s the question, where else would he play?
We have too many capable 4th liners. He has nowhere to fit in on the 3rd line, barring injury. Putting him on the 2nd line with Malkin and Staal makes that line almost too good, but that’s about the only other choice.
There are two theories on hitting a knuckleball - unfortunately, neither of them work.
by BobPurkey34 on Jul 12, 2010 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions
That may be true. But that doesn’t mean he didn’t play on a scoring line during the season.
It IS true though. I don’t have access to AHL ice time per game, but Tangradi wasn’t used heavily ES last season.
Tangradi should at least get that. Whether it’s all on Crosby’s line or not, he still deserves his time with in the NHL to prove himself.
I’d rather take Jeffrey, Johnson or Letestu if they’re a better player right now. Training camp will show it, I don’t know, maybe Tangradi does have the ability to take a big role in Pittsburgh. If he proves it, by all means let him have a shot. But for now, I think you’re expecting too much if you’re penciling him in for a top line NHL job right out the gates.
"Game's the same. Just got more fierce."
by Hooks Orpik on Jul 12, 2010 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions
I’d rather take Jeffrey, Johnson or Letestu IF they’re a better player right now.
That’s a major if. I’ll rule Letestu out right now, he’s a center while Tangradi is a winger, they won’t be competing against each other. Maybe I am expecting too much out of him but I can say one thing. He may not be the most NHL ready player in WBS right now but nobody else comes close to his upside on that team – and he will improve when given time with our best forwards.
There are two theories on hitting a knuckleball - unfortunately, neither of them work.
by BobPurkey34 on Jul 12, 2010 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions
I’ll rule Letestu out right now, he’s a center while Tangradi is a winger, they won’t be competing against each other.
You can’t rule that out. Letestu could make the team as 3C, and they bump Staal and Talbot to top 6 wingers.
I think all the non-NHL players are going to be competition to see who is ready. Whoever is, they’ll work it around at the beginning of the year. If Tangradi can’t be a top 6 winger, it’s pretty likely either Staal or Malkin is going to have to be.
"Game's the same. Just got more fierce."
by Hooks Orpik on Jul 12, 2010 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m already counting that Staal moves into a Top 6 forward role. But it should certainly be at center, moving Malkin to the wing. Malkin is utterly useless on faceoffs, so having Staal take the draws only makes sense.
I don’t think Talbot will be, or should be, a top 6 forward. At least not on a full time basis. He’s not that good. Unless he’s really impressive in camp and preseason, he’ll probably take a spot as the 4th line RW.
To me, we only have one top 4 winger, being Kunitz. My other picks are Malkin (2nd RW), Dupuis (2nd LW) and then Tangradi at 1st RW. Opposing teams can send out their best defensive pairings to shut Crosby down but do so at your own risk, that means Malkin & Staal regularly see 2nd pairings. I have no problem with that.
There are two theories on hitting a knuckleball - unfortunately, neither of them work.
by BobPurkey34 on Jul 12, 2010 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions
plus, Staalsy’s defensive work are best utilized as a center. Geno’s ability to beat defenders in the open ice makes him ideal to play wing…
But in truth, we won’t know anything till we see them on ice together…
Is it October yet?
Just so I never have to answer this again. I'm from Singapore so whenever you see me online, I'm either sleep deprived or just waking up.
Exactly
But they’ve been together for 4 years now as teammates. It’s not like they aren’t familiar with each other. Granted it’ll take some adjustment and work, but it’s for the best.
Unless Malkin suddenly decides he’s going to work the rest of the summer taking faceoffs, he should play wing. That way he’d have the ability to roam in the offensive zone and not have to worry as much defensively with Staal covering for him.
There are two theories on hitting a knuckleball - unfortunately, neither of them work.
Also I don’t like the thought of Letestu as full-time 3C. I don’t think he’s big or gritty enough to keep that line going.
Totally agree. He’s a 4C at best — and prob just in short spans.
If they need a 3C internally b/c Staal is elevated, Talbot is the most likely candidate, with Letestu and Jeffrey battling for 4C.
They will leave Adams at RW.
Letestu hasn’t given me any reason to doubt him. He played the 3rd center role very well last year. Talbot is no bigger and I don’t want him there. He’s nowhere near good enough on faceoffs to play full time. I see absolutely no reason to move Adams away from C, when he took the 3rd most draws of anyone on the team last year.
Letestu on the other hand won 55% of his draws here. Nobody else aside from Sid comes close to matching that. Granted that’s only a 10 game sample size but I’m pretty sure he’d get even better with more practice.
There are two theories on hitting a knuckleball - unfortunately, neither of them work.
Right now our lineup looks something like this
Kunitz Crosby Dupuis
? Malkin ?
Cooke Staal Kennedy
Rupp Talbot Adams
This isn’t untrue, but roles could change. Talbot could be a top 6 winger. If that happens, a guy like Jeffrey or Letestu probably has a better shot of making the 4th line, since Adams can play center too.
Staal could bump up to the Top 6 too, meaning the 3C could be open for Talbot, Letestu or a FA to win that job.
So it’s hard to say…The door’s going to be open for Tangradi, Johnson, Jeffrey, Letestu and even Conner, Ryan Craig and Brett Sterling to come in and have a great camp. If one or two of those guys play like they can’t be cut, I think there’s enough flexibility with guys like Staal/Talbot to rig the roster around to fit it all together and see how it goes for a while.
"Game's the same. Just got more fierce."
i keep feeling like Max has been shoe-horned into the top 6… I love the guy but game 7 heroics aside, we’ve haven’t a really good look at him as Geno’s winger in the regular season…
I hope that last year’s injuries were the only reason… Because if he can live up to that Superstar nickname, and if Tangradi starts producing at an NHL level, we might not even need to pull the trigger on a new winger…
Is it October yet?
Just so I never have to answer this again. I'm from Singapore so whenever you see me online, I'm either sleep deprived or just waking up.
Staal to 2C
FYI, from poll found here
How should the Penguins handle the forward Situation?
* Move Staal to the wing 8%
* Move Malkin to the wing 66%
* Leave them both at center 24%
Created on Jul 5, 2010
Total Votes: 2,449
Appropriate result
There are two theories on hitting a knuckleball - unfortunately, neither of them work.
I’m just scared shitless that we might end up rushing Tangradi & the rest of the Baby Pens in too early and burn them out.
Don’t take it for granted if Tangradi doesn’t look like the second coming of Bill Guerin or Kevin Stevens. Especially don’t call for his head if he doesn’t explode out of the gate.
Is it October yet?
Just so I never have to answer this again. I'm from Singapore so whenever you see me online, I'm either sleep deprived or just waking up.
Burn them out? I think they’re in way more of a position to succeed here than anywhere else. They won’t be counted as a primary offensive contributors. They won’t be asked to play huge minutes. They’ll be getting mentored by some of the finest young players in the game. However in Tangradi’s case, I think he is ready to contribute on this team – it’s not like he’s an 18-19 year old kid coming in expected to carry the team. He’s 21 and should be fine.
But absolutely not. Nobody should get on Tangradi if he doesn’t begin his career at a point per game pace.
There are two theories on hitting a knuckleball - unfortunately, neither of them work.
if i’m correct, i think the phrase “burn them out” might just have meant something along the lines of calling them up too early, a la luke schenn with the maple leafs (sorry, leafs fans, i love you, though). calling players up who aren’t quite ready for the level of competition the nhl provides can harm their development far more than it can help. i think that might have been what he was aiming for.
we're not trading jordan staal.
by katielynn906 on Jul 12, 2010 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree that the pressure is on them to be proven NHLers and not team leaders but i’ve noticed a slightly unrealistic view here that Tangradi’s gonna be a producer straight out of the gate. Just wanted to manage expectations is all…
Not that I don’t want him to become the second coming of Kevin Stevens
Is it October yet?
Just so I never have to answer this again. I'm from Singapore so whenever you see me online, I'm either sleep deprived or just waking up.
i agree with you that people have unrealistic expectations for young NHL’s since the Crosby, Malkin, Staal, etc have done so well at such a young age, but in a salary cap world i think you need to have young guys step up like Tangardi, we dont need to expect the world of him but he is a 21 year old professional athlete he has time to grow and get better even if that means he needs time to get better in the NHL
what i think will happen is that tangradi’s gonna have one more season in wbs, then be ready to go in 2011-2012. i’d love to be proven wrong, though, and see him kicking butt this year.
we're not trading jordan staal.
by katielynn906 on Jul 12, 2010 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Kunitz – Sid – Dupuis (not happy with Sid’s RW but what other option is there? UFA maybe)
Talbot – Staal – Malkin (this could really work!!)
Cooke – Letestu – Tangredi (Baby Pens top line with an upgrade at LW)
Rupp- Adams – Kennedy (size, right-handed face-off guy who PK’s and speed, not bad)
Michalek – Martin
Letang – Orpik
Lovejoy – Gogo
PP
Staal – Sid – Malkin (this assumes Gogo or Malkin can run the top with Staal in front)
Letang – Gogo
Kunitz – Letestu – Tangredi
Michalek – Martin
PKers
F – Dupuis, Talbot, Staal, Adams, and Cooke
D – Michalek, Martin, Orpik, and Lovejoy
Life is about one simple choice, get busy living or get busy dying
Hm. I really like your idea of putting Cooke with some new guys. I can remember Staal & TK talking about how much he helped them sort out how to play together, etcetera … so if a line like that is going to be put together, Cooke is a good choice for the veteran.
Shero gets an A. Burkie gets a checkmark.
If it were me i would bring up Letestu and Tangradi and see how they played. I think we all believe Letestu is NHL ready but we haven’t had a good enough look at E-Tanger to really know so this will be an important year for him. If he is a success, great, but if he still isn’t quite ready we know conner, who we resigned today, is ready to play some games, and of course nick johnson and dustin jeffery also can play if needed. And I think at this point unless Despress shows real well in camp, it will be lovejoy up next year.
Tangradi/Staal/Malkin...
would be a MONSTER (damn it Pierre, go away!) of a line. It keeps Tangradi on his natural side — playing on the off-wing makes it somewhat more difficult to drive the net & protect the puck with the body — and sets Malkin up as the shooter or passer since his stick will be facing the middle of the ice. Plus, he has the puck skills to play on the right side.
This leaves Crosby between Kunitz & Dupuis, two guys he’s familiar with with which he’s familiar. I’d give Talbot the nod on the 3rd line with Cooke & Kennedy and go with Adams between Rupp & Godard. When Godard isn’t necessary — we can safely assume he’ll be in when they play NYR and PHI — Letestu or Jeffrey could take his spot with Adams moving to wing if necessary.
Unless my camp dark horse makes the team to center the 4th line… Joe Vitale. Right-hander who is reported to be a faceoff ace with good defensive instincts and tenacity. Little offensive upside, but likely a much better fit in a 4th-line role than Letestu or Jeffrey. I’d be much more inclined to have Vitale around to play limited minutes and sit in the press box when Godard dresses than Letestu or Jeffrey. Both have a chance to be more than pluggers, so let them continue to develop their games in the AHL for the time being.
Although I do like Dr Tre’s idea of having Letestu around to get some 2nd unit PP minutes, something I hadn’t considered until seeing his post. I think they need to give the first unit more of a rest (1:20/0:40 split?) to allow for better puck retrieval and gaining of the zone. Less is more!
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