Defensive Pairings
by Alighieri on Jul 3, 2010 4:05 PM EDT
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PrintIn case you haven't noticed, OH MY WORD OUR DEFENSE IS GOING TO END LIVES NEXT YEAR.
If you were Dan Bylsma, how would you structure the defensive pairings next year?
Disregarding the 7th D-spot, our main rotation on the blue line figures to be Brooks Orpik, Zbynek Michalek, Kris Letang, Paul Martin, Alex Goligoski & Ben Lovejoy.
I'm trying to figure out what's the best way for us to maximize our pairings.
Option A: Frontloading
Putting 2 of Michalek, Orpik & Martin together on the first pairing with the odd man out to partner Letang. Gogo & Rev. Lovejoy to form our 3rd pairing.
Orpik-Michalek
Martin-Letang
Gogo-Lovejoy
My problem with this is the Lovejoy/Gogo pairing. Gogo looked pretty raw last year and I'm not sure putting him next to another rookie like Lovejoy will be good for both their developments. I'm not convinced that Tanger can take a mentor role to either of them at this stage in his career but you gotta admit that Orpik/Michalek pairing looks intimidating, even on paper.
Option B: Spreading the Wealth
We split Orpik, Michalek & Martin into all three pairings so they can mentor the youngsters as well as giving us a three headed monster in defense.
Orpik-Letang
Martin-Gogo
Michalek-Lovejoy
I can see how this might work for us, but it just seems wasteful. On the plus side, it gives us the best possible chance for Lovejoy & Gogo to develop.
__________________________________
PensFan8725 and I touched on this a little in the Shots & Territorial Possession fanpost. Go read it if you haven't. GoPens! did a heckuva job on it.
The great thing about our new D, is that any of the top 4 guys could easily be in the top pairing. So here’s what I think the D will look like:
Orpik-Michalek
Martin-Letang
Gogo-LovejoyEach pairing has a right hander and each one has a great puck mover. I think Orpik and Michalek would be an absolutely solid shutdown pairing. Maybe one of the best in the league. Orpik could knock you into next week, while Z can take away your space or block you shot, if you do somehow get away from him.
I think it's a bit redundant to throw up a whole post to ask this, but I'm really curious on what everyone here thinks.
However it goes, with both Big Z & Martin plus Letang's continued improvement, the future of our blue-line looks very bright.
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current guess...
Martin – Michalek
Orpik – Letang
GoGo – Lovejoy
each has a Lefty (on the left above) and a Righty (on the right above)
and each has a puck mover — Martin, Letang, GoGo
the Top 4 get pretty much equal minutes
w/ GoGo and Lovejoy the clear 3rd pairing
I like this pairing set-up.
Regarding Gogo and Lovejoy, no team’s 3rd D pairing is “strong” or “really good”; that’s why they’re the third D pairing. Given the salary cap, Gogo and Lovejoy would be a decent 3rd line pairing, and they’d get pretty sheltered minutes, especially considering your top 4 guys are stacked. WIth that in mind, they couldn’t do too poorly while playing the lesser competition on each team. I think it would be counterproductive to “spread the wealth.”
Hockey Blogger at Pensburgh.com
It also wouldn’t hurt to pair GoGo (5’10", 185 lbs) with Lovejoy (6’2", 215 lbs) due to GoGo’s size limitations. Let Lovejoy do a greater share of the heavy lifting in clearing the crease.
Additionally, I’m fairly certain that Lovejoy and Goligoski use to play together as a paring in WBS. Familiarity with each others’ style would probably make the transition a bit easier for Lovejoy and give GoGo confidence to join the rush as he’d be more confortable withe Lovejoy having his back.
I still would prefer my pairings above (I think they’ll be very useful, especially against teams like the Caps), but if there was another combo to choose, I would choose yours. I agree, GoGo-Lovejoy are clearly the #3 pairing.
I love that we have to argue over defensive pairings!!
Oh and I love how everyone refuses to spell “Goligoski” out. It’s always GoGo.
I've told [a 9 months pregnant] Nathalie that she can't have the baby on a game night. I'm not missing a playoff game. -Mario Lemieux in 1993
@8725 – we might see Orpik and Z on the PK per BobPurkey’s thoughts below
all guesses right now, of course, but ES the pairings look pretty clear
esp. w/ Orpik and Letang having experience playing w/ each other
also, the pairings i suggested also have a more physical guy in each (Z, Orpik, Lovejoy) w/ a puck mover (Martin, Letang, GoGo).
the pairings i suggested also have a more physical guy in each (Z, Orpik, Lovejoy) w/ a puck mover (Martin, Letang, GoGo).
THIS
PLUS, one righty in each pair
AND, Goligoski and Lovejoy as the bottom pair
= SOLD
by truculence is a virtue on Jul 5, 2010 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh, cool. I had no idea Lovejoy was a righty. That just boosts his stock even further in my mind. :)
i need a second… by righty means his right hand is higher or lower on the stick when he shoots? I get confused.
I'm 21 now... I still feel 20 and I still feel way too old.
Just so I never have to answer this again. I'm from Singapore so whenever you see me online, I'm either sleep deprived or just waking up.
Lower, which is why you have more lefty shooters, because they want their dominant (right) hand higher on the stick for better control.
The Pens will be back.
by PensAreYourDaddy on Jul 4, 2010 8:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m a righty then… Although when I hurt my wrist back in junior high I had to get used to shooting left. It’s been a while but I think I still shoot left.
I'm 21 now... I still feel 20 and I still feel way too old.
Just so I never have to answer this again. I'm from Singapore so whenever you see me online, I'm either sleep deprived or just waking up.
I’m right-handed but I also shoot righty, yet when I play nhl## I’m much more comfortable controlling lefty players. Go figure.
The Pens will be back.
by PensAreYourDaddy on Jul 5, 2010 8:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Do you usually play as the Penguins? I know I’m more comfortable with left handers because we have so much more left-handed talent on our team.
Hockey Blogger at Pensburgh.com
That’s a good point but not necessarily the case with me. On nhl10 my “be a pro” player was drafted by the Stars, so I had been playing a lot with them. When I get together with my brother we split time between the Pens and his Caps.
The Pens will be back.
by PensAreYourDaddy on Jul 5, 2010 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm going with Option C
Which would be the same as Diomedes.
Having a Big Four and then the two spares. Using basic examples, look at the Flyers and Hawks last year. They both had 4 guys who played 20+ minutes on average per game and then the bottom pair were getting around 14 or less. Last year we didn’t have that luxury, we had 3 top defensemen and then 4 others who weren’t worth playing anywhere near 20 minutes.
However this year, we do. Martin, Michalek, Orpik and Letang are all capable of playing 20+ minutes every night, and they rightly all should. Gogo and Lovejoy would just be the spares and situational defensemen. Gogo obviously seeing a good bit of time on the PP and Lovejoy similarly in defensive situations or 2nd PK unit.
Special Teams should look a little different
- PP – Martin & Letang
- PP – Gogo & Michalek
- PK – Orpik & Michalek
- PK – Martin/Letang & Lovejoy
That way, every pairing is a LR combination and an offensive-defensive combination. But my only defensive concern at the moment is depth. I’d still love to see McKee resigned as a 6th-7th defenseman because injuries will inevitably happen and there’s really nobody else I trust in WBS. Despres will probably be there but not ready, Strait is a wild card and Engelland is more a brawler than a hockey player.
There are two theories on hitting a knuckleball - unfortunately, neither of them work.
Like that you added Z to the 2nd PP. I’ve heard that he’s got a pretty decent shot that he doesn’t use often enough. Maybe some time on the PP is what he needs.
I've told [a 9 months pregnant] Nathalie that she can't have the baby on a game night. I'm not missing a playoff game. -Mario Lemieux in 1993
i was wondering about the 4th D for the PK…?
Pens lost 2 in Gonchar and Eaton
and only added 1 in Z…
Wouldn’t worry about that too much. Gonchar was below average penalty killer last year and he’s now replaced by an excellent one.
Martin is also a very adequate if not very fundamentally sound defender who could play 2nd PK. Lovejoy also showed, at least to me, that he can be a valuable man in our own end. He’s got a no-nonsense approach and that’s good for PK. Letang can manage fine if given a 2nd PP unit to work against.
There are two theories on hitting a knuckleball - unfortunately, neither of them work.
cool. not worried. just didn’t have a sense for who they’ll be likely to use in that role.
can it be October already?
I’m feeling closer to the Z/Orpik &Martin/Tanger combo for ES play where we change up the starters depending on the teams we play. But I agree, the way things are set now we have no clear top pairings, just a bunch of d-men who have skill sets to fit both special teams.
It could eventually come down to chemistry. Who’s working well with each other in camp.
I'm 21 now... I still feel 20 and I still feel way too old.
Just so I never have to answer this again. I'm from Singapore so whenever you see me online, I'm either sleep deprived or just waking up.
Speaking of defensemen though, I'm absolutely SHOCKED nobody picked Souray off waivers
With the rate defensemen were going off the board on Thursday, how is it that nobody wanted him? I know we can’t afford him at $5.4m a year but there were a number of other teams who wanted defensive help & didn’t get it. Like San Jose, LAK, Rangers, Ducks, why is he still in Edmonton?
There are two theories on hitting a knuckleball - unfortunately, neither of them work.
they didn’t want him at that price. $5.4M.
from TSN:
"Edmonton Oilers defenseman Sheldon Souray cleared waivers on Saturday.
This means that all other teams passed on him, for now. If Souray stays with the club, nothing changes. If he is sent to the minors, he will have to pass re-entry waivers. If a team claims him off re-entry waivers, Edmonton will have to foot half his remaining contract. There is no way that Souray would slip through re-entry waivers so look for Edmonton to try to deal the disgruntled star.
Good point there. Still, the rate defenders were getting paid on 1st, it would almost seem appropriate that someone would go after him too.
There are two theories on hitting a knuckleball - unfortunately, neither of them work.
Willie Mitchell and Andy Sutton are still out there. Maybe sign one them for a cheap price of course. They could possibly be the 6th defensemen and Lovejoy becomes the seventh.
I'd love either as much as the next Pens fan, but I don't see how it could work
Mitchell made $3.5m last year and in order for him to sign with the Pens, he’d have to accept half of that. We only have about $1.7 or so in cap space left to sign somebody. I really doubt he’d do that, unless there are honestly no other teams that even offer a contract. Unless he cares a ton about having a good shot at the Cup, chances are he’d take a good deal more money somewhere else.
Sutton would be a little more likely, because he’s 35 and clearly wants a last chance at winning. He wanted to go to a playoff team last year and will probably want the same next year. I personally thought he & the Pens would have been a good match at last year’s deadline and I still think he would be now. He’s the kind of unpredictable hulking defenseman that no opposing forward really wants to see and we still don’t have a big body on the blue line. If we can sign him around $2ish million, that would be pushing the limits but I say worth it as a #6 dman.
There are two theories on hitting a knuckleball - unfortunately, neither of them work.
Not necessarily...
We can afford a player at $2 million or less right now. Rumor is that will be a veteran winger but it doesn’t have to be at all. I think if Shero has the opportunity to add a solid veteran defenseman as the No. 6 or 7, he’s going to do it.
It’ll all just come down to where the pieces fall into place. But if the chance is there we have to take it.
There are two theories on hitting a knuckleball - unfortunately, neither of them work.
I think someone mentioned in one of the other threads that Shero’s gonna wait a bit before his next big move.
I’m for the market settling a little bit. When a number of FAs start signing, it’ll be easier to sift out those who wouldn’t mind taking pay cuts to play for a contender or attempt to recover some value.
I'm 21 now... I still feel 20 and I still feel way too old.
Just so I never have to answer this again. I'm from Singapore so whenever you see me online, I'm either sleep deprived or just waking up.
Mitchell
remember when Malkin hit him last season? Yeah, neither do I. Well, apparently he was out for the rest of the season and was really pissed Geno wasn’t suspended.
So, not only would he have to take a discount, he would also have to settle his differences with one of the most important players on the team.
Sutton would be the most likely candidate, but even he and the Pens have a beef. The “Are you an expert?” hit on Leo. That beef would probably be a lot easier. But…seeing the way that he got eaten up by the Pens (especially Crosby) during the playoffs, I don’t know how much I want him.
I've told [a 9 months pregnant] Nathalie that she can't have the baby on a game night. I'm not missing a playoff game. -Mario Lemieux in 1993
Willie Mitchell and Andy Sutton are still out there
…way…too…expensive
by truculence is a virtue on Jul 5, 2010 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions
i don’t know if Mitchell will get $3.5m with concerns over his concussion problems from this past season. What is this story about the Pens losing money from their salary cap for this season?
No he won’t (and shouldn’t) get $3.5m BUT – I also don’t think he’ll be going for all that much less either. He’s a valuable commodity and just because someone has had a concussion in the past shouldn’t detract too many potential buyers. At least, I’d still add David Booth if given the chance.
What story about losing money from the cap? Our cap space right now is exactly $2.992 right now. We’ll have to subtract $0.737 in order to promote Tangradi and another $0.525 for Lovejoy. That gives us $1.73 in cap to theoretically play with but you don’t want to spend that amount exactly, we need a little room for in-season call-ups or potential trades.
There are two theories on hitting a knuckleball - unfortunately, neither of them work.
I read something about losing $88,000 in money for the cap because they slightly went over the cap with bonuses this past season.
Googled it.
it’s here on CapGeek. $83,979
didn’t know about it myself and it worries me.
I'm 21 now... I still feel 20 and I still feel way too old.
Just so I never have to answer this again. I'm from Singapore so whenever you see me online, I'm either sleep deprived or just waking up.
i read on the los angeles kings fanpost on here. The Pens as well as 8 other teams like Detroit, L.A., of course Chicago went over. It is just a minor penalty for going over the cap due to a bonus that was reached in someone’s contract I’m assuming. It isn’t as bad as Chicago who has to pay 4 million because Toews and Kane reached performance clauses in their contracts. Like when Toews won the Conn Smythe. The Hawks had to give him money for winning that. I’ll find the link if I can.
I believe it, just wondering. It’s a fairly insignificant penalty anyway.
There are two theories on hitting a knuckleball - unfortunately, neither of them work.
Yeah, It is insignificant. Compared to what the Hawks have to pay. That Conn Smythe Toews won was a costly one for the Hawks. Here is the order of the teams:
1. Chicago Blackhawks, $4,157,753
2. Boston Bruins, $1,759,795
3. Toronto Maple Leafs, $1,400,000
4. Edmonton Oilers, $354,500
5. San Jose Sharks, $327,500
6. Vancouver Canucks, $90,000
7. Pittsburgh Penguins, $83,979
8. Montreal Canadiens, $68,751
9. Detroit Red Wings, $50,000
Source: http://www.capgeek.com/news/20100702-nine-nhl-teams-face-salary-cap-penalties-performance-bonuses.php
Looking at the 4 teams who are in the $50,000-$90,000 dollar range they’re good teams and playoff teams from this past season and should be next year. They’ll rebound from this. They have core players intact and this won’t effect them in anyway. We’ve seen what the Hawks had to do. This does effect Boston and Toronto slightly but if boston trades Savard and Toronto Kaberle it may not be that bad for just this season. Boston is a playoff team. Toronto should be better this year with a couple of good goalies, a good defense and a ok offense with Kulemin, Kessel and Versteeg leading the way.
Edmonton is clearly in rebuilding mode. Although they have great young players like Eberle, Brule, Cogliano, Gilbert, Gagne and as well as Hall. But having to keep Souray’ for now and Horcoff’s contract doesn’t help. San Jose should continue to be a contender. Resigning Pavelski and Marleau was great. They have a top six forward group that is as good as any in the league with Heatley, Thornton, Marleau, Pavelski, Setoguchi & Clowe. Losing Maholtra to Vancouver is tough. Maholtra is the ultimate bottom six forward. But their goalie situation is a bigger issue than the Flyers. The Flyers at least have good defensemen to help. Vlasic and Boyle are good but not that good.
I DEMAND CREDIT, MISTER ALIGHIERI.
YOU KNOW WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT, BUDDY.
i like the pens, sidney crosby, jordan staal, and typing in capital letters.
I assumed most of us knew it was from your twitter already.
I’m sorry… Our ridiculously catchy new description of our new blue-line (namely “OH MY WORD OUR DEFENSE IS GOING TO END LIVES NEXT YEAR.”) comes from the very cool capital letter wielding KatieLynn906.
Please don’t wield capital letters at me anymore. I get scared.
I'm 21 now... I still feel 20 and I still feel way too old.
Just so I never have to answer this again. I'm from Singapore so whenever you see me online, I'm either sleep deprived or just waking up.
hahah, just kidding, friend. much love. i just like giving you a hard time.
i like the pens, sidney crosby, jordan staal, and typing in capital letters.
by katielynn906 on Jul 5, 2010 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions
lol
it makes things fun. In fact, I was supposed to be at work 3 hours ago but I’m still on Pensburgh… My Sergeant’s gonna eat me. :)
I'm 21 now... I still feel 20 and I still feel way too old.
Just so I never have to answer this again. I'm from Singapore so whenever you see me online, I'm either sleep deprived or just waking up.
I get scared.
I was scared for you. First time I’ve been happy that you’re halfway around the world.
by PensAreYourDaddy on Jul 5, 2010 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions
As the best Dutch soccer player said: Every disadbantage has an advantage (and the other way around)
There is a knack to flying: it's learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.
by Sid the captain on Jul 6, 2010 8:15 AM EDT up reply actions
at the risk of not coming out of this alive, i’ll say that i’m reasonably sure katielynn doesn’t bite… too hard.
I'm 21 now... I still feel 20 and I still feel way too old.
Just so I never have to answer this again. I'm from Singapore so whenever you see me online, I'm either sleep deprived or just waking up.
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