3C
by Diomedes7 on Jul 5, 2010 10:33 AM EDT
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PrintThe next move by the Penguins looks likely to be the addition of a new 3C to facilitate Jordan Staal's move to Malkin's line while maintaining, to the extent possible, the team's philosophy of "Strength Down the Middle."
A couple prime candidates can be removed from Shero's shopping list:
1) Manny Malhotra -- signed a 3-year deal with Vancouver at $2.5M/year early on July 1), and
2) Eric Belanger -- won't be re-signed by Washington, but is reportedly seeking a multi-year deal at >$2.0M/year.
So who is on the list...
The candidates and their SB Nation Scouting Reports:
1. Jeff Halpern (LAK)
Assets = Is a diligent worker. Plays a solid defensive game and excels on the penalty kill. Possesses solid leadership qualities and the ability to play both center and wing.
Flaws = Has struggled when called upon to serve a top-six forward role, since he's extremely streaky in the offensive zone and not a natural talent.
2. Ryan Johnson (VAN)
Assets = Has blinding speed and is a tenacious forechecker. Likes to get physical and play an energy role. Can play either center or left wing. Is a good face-off man.
Flaws = Lacks offensive flair and struggles to put points on the board. Is also somewhat injury-prone and lacking in physical toughness.
3. John Madden (CHI)
Assets = Outstanding penalty-killer and shutdown pivot. His versatility enables him to play any role on a hockey club. Has great speed, sound fundamentals, and an excellent work ethic.
Flaws = Doesn’t put up huge numbers which makes him a less-than-ideal top six pivot. Can go long stretches without a point.
4. Dominic Moore (MON)
Assets = Has excellent hockey sense and two-way instincts. Always gives maximum effort on the ice. Gets under opponents' skin. Skates very well and shoots the puck a lot.
Flaws = Is smallish in stature, which negates some of his checking ability. Lacks offensive consistency. Doesn't score enough goals for the chances he receives.
5. Rob Niedermeyer (NJD)
Assets = Has good size and excellent defensive instincts. Skates well and is versatile enough to play anywhere up front.
Flaws = Has underachieved on offense, mainly because of prolonged scoring droughts and a lack of offensive instincts.
The content expressed in fanposts does not necessarily reflect the opinions of the staff here at Pensburgh.com. FanPosts are opinions expressed by fans of various teams throughout the league but may be more Pittsburgh-centric for obvious reasons.
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My head’s telling me Rob Niedermeyer… He seems to be a good locker room guy, which is like candy to Shero, plus I think most of our other options are kinda out of our price range. I would like Madden or Halpern but I doubt they’d take that pay cut.
It’d be nice if our new guy can give some offensive punch to our 3rd line like Staalsy did, but scoring shouldn’t be that line’s main concern so I’m okay with the new guy being fire power lite.
I'm 21 now... I still feel 20 and I still feel way too old.
Just so I never have to answer this again. I'm from Singapore so whenever you see me online, I'm either sleep deprived or just waking up.
Mark Letestu: SB Nation Scouting Report:
Assets = Is a smart offensive pivot with face-off skills and a lot of patience with the puck.
Flaws = Doesn’t have a lot of size and lacks a physical dimension to his game.
Career Potential = Reserve center.
Shero wouldn’t be targeting a 3C via free agency if he felt the team had the answer in-house…
So, that includes: Adams, Talbot, Jeffrey, Kennedy, and Rupp
They want “Strength Down the Middle” — and that means upgrading at 3C
Letestu wouldn’t be any worse than Niedermeyer.
by SlayerGhaleon on Jul 5, 2010 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions
this one?
I'm 21 now... I still feel 20 and I still feel way too old.
Just so I never have to answer this again. I'm from Singapore so whenever you see me online, I'm either sleep deprived or just waking up.
now that i actually look at the picture, anyone thinks LeTestTube looks a little like a hobbit?
I'm 21 now... I still feel 20 and I still feel way too old.
Just so I never have to answer this again. I'm from Singapore so whenever you see me online, I'm either sleep deprived or just waking up.
lol….tk belongs on the Shire line. He’s got a real middle-earth look.
The Pens will be back.
by PensAreYourDaddy on Jul 5, 2010 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions
i voted for halpy...
madden would be better, but i don’t see him signing for what Shero can offer
good post…this is the direction the team is very likely going…and that list is who they are likley targeting…although i don’t know about Moore…he’s pretty small, and i think they want a big body…no offence to all the Shires
by truculence is a virtue on Jul 5, 2010 6:33 PM EDT reply actions
Hooks, where you been?
Ray Shero was on the radio the other day saying Staal was moving up to 2C
Molinari wrote about it today here
And word is that the Penguins are talking to Niedermeyer and have been contacted by Halpern
Yeah I’ve read that. But the quote was they’re “looking” to see what’s out there. Better 3C guys available rather than a top 6 winger for the Pens salary needs, so it makes sense.
Wouldn’t surprise me to see Staal in the Top 6, but I think if a guy like Tangradi or Johnson shows they can feel that role, come playoff time it’ll be strength down the middle with the three big guns on separate lines to gain the advantage. But that’s depends a lot on a young guy stepping up, so we’ll see.
"Game's the same. Just got more fierce."
Well, I hope so because not having the big 3 down the middle in the regualar season is one thing. Not having them for the playoffs would be a pretty big problem in my mind. I think Shero will search for a wing this trade deadline..I know that’s looking way ahead, but the FA wing position is just not good right now.
I've told [a 9 months pregnant] Nathalie that she can't have the baby on a game night. I'm not missing a playoff game. -Mario Lemieux in 1993
come playoff time it’ll be strength down the middle with the three big guns on separate lines to gain the advantage
This is exactly why I dont understand adding another center. I think the Pens would be much better off keeping them all on seperate lines. Genos moves around and plays enough wing as it is. I dont think signing another center would be a good idea. Keep the 3 million you have left over and save it for the deadline, where with 3 million , you could add just about anyplayer you want.
by genomachine-O on Jul 6, 2010 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Just Curious?
Why is Mark Letestu not deemed as an option?
Life is about one simple choice, get busy living or get busy dying
This post was about FA options.
Letestu did play well, but I don’t think he’s a great option as a full-time center as a 3C in the NHL. For a team that wants to contend anyways, you’d like a little more size, grit and experience.
"Game's the same. Just got more fierce."
I also think it’s tough to get a read on Letestu just yet. He’s only played in a handful of games, and we really don’t know how he’ll do in a full season.
Hockey Blogger at Pensburgh.com
Shire Line
Although Testtube Cookie and Maxipad (sorry personal nick names for them) wouldn’t be the tallest people in the world…I would love to see that match up against the preschool line from Chicago (kane toews and whoever they put there with him)
The shire line is gritty as hell, and I love how my nickname stuck…
Let’s just hope that some of your other nicknames don’t stick ;-)
I mean come on, what was wrong with 2-goal talbot, superstar or maximus decimus meridius?
by PensAreYourDaddy on Jul 6, 2010 8:57 AM EDT up reply actions
It is Latin for “you need to watch Gladiator”.
by PensAreYourDaddy on Jul 6, 2010 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
huh?
What? Yeah I’m a fan of Talbots…just forgot about his better nickname as superstar cause that commericial is pretty funny
3C
from the DePaoli article this morning…
sounds like Guerin won’t be re-signed
pretty negative buzz on Kariya too — at least at this point
and Niedermeyer hesitant about his role in the Pens uptempo scheme
sounds like they are still proceeding with 3C as the priority
please no Niedermeyer. I think hes looked awful the last few years, and honestly Im not sure he could keep up with the pens system. The Pens count on the 3rd line to chip in offensively, I dont see that happening with him.
by genomachine-O on Jul 6, 2010 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions
your post answered my question – he sounds like the same Rob Niedermayer I remember from awhile back. S-O-F-T
I don’t see the point of trying to get someone new. We have enough talent to fill 3C as it is.
I’d put Talbot at 3C, and bring Letestu in on the 4th line and give him 10-20 games and see if he can challenge anyone for a 3rd line spot.
that and both Rupp and Adams are natural centers who somehow have been playing wingers for our 4th line…
I’d rather we stand pat now and wait till the market settles.
Is it October yet?
Just so I never have to answer this again. I'm from Singapore so whenever you see me online, I'm either sleep deprived or just waking up.
nah… till Kovy signs…
See you in November I suppose /snickers
Is it October yet?
Just so I never have to answer this again. I'm from Singapore so whenever you see me online, I'm either sleep deprived or just waking up.
What Kovy does is irrelevant to the Penguins. I think from Shero’s point of view, the market has settled right now.
Hockey Blogger at Pensburgh.com
Maybe. Sort of. But the asking price of the various unsigned-yet-solid forwards who are almost certainly going to be available toward the end of the summer — will come down.
Shero gets an A. Burkie gets a checkmark.
besides, it’s not beyond Shero to pull a deal for wingers as the season goes… That and we’re not sure if some guys’ production might fall off a cliff or something in camp…
I’ll be happier after training camp where we can get a better look at what’s in our cupboard.
Is it October yet?
Just so I never have to answer this again. I'm from Singapore so whenever you see me online, I'm either sleep deprived or just waking up.
deadline deals...
i’m not so sure the Penguins are keen on going to that well again
they’ve traded away a lot of picks and prospects in the past 3 years
plus, they have VERY limited cap space as is and want to sign 2 more players
this year, i would not be surprised to see Shero depart from that script
speaking of supply and demand...
a couple 3C’s are clearly not going to be re-signed by their current team (b/c of cap constraints):
Montreal isn’t expected to re-sign any of it’s remaining unrestricted free agents.
That includes Glen Metropolit and Dominic Moore. “It’s unfortunate because a lot of these guys contributed to our team, but between the young players moving up and the acquisitions we made in the off-season, and of course the game that we all play with the (salary) cap, we came to those decisions,” Canadiens GM Pierre Gauthier said.
Not that I would want to praise Montreal too much but Moore was definitely one of the best signings and he was great in the playoffs. I know that the Gomez cap hit is probably biting them in the derriere (anyone with an iota of sense could have seen that last summer) which is why they won’t re-sign him. I know that Metropolit’s age was going to be an issue this off-season but Moore? And who do they have coming up other than PK Subban?
What about Dustin Jeffrey? He has been a point per game player in the AHL and has a lot of grit. He has shown the ability to fill pretty much any role. Also, he only carries a 500k cap hit.
by stoopidtom on Jul 6, 2010 10:10 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
If the Penguins are looking to add a veteran 3C with their remaining cap $, we can assume they don’t figure Jeffrey is the answer there. Not that that’s anything negative on Jeffrey—those are big boots to fill.
Jeffrey may be more likely to see some time at 4C if Talbot is bumped up to 2RW or 3C for whatever reason (injury, he’s scoring like its Game 7 of the SCF, etc.)
That said, I’m sure Jeffrey will be given the opportunity in camp to show what he’s got. If he’s good, they’ll move him up as there are clearly a couple slots open.
If the strength down the middle doesn’t have any help besides Crosby, Malkin and Kunitz on the top two lines teams with a good defensive plan can shut them down especially in the playoffs as Montreal showed. Moving Staal to the top two lines is a great thing. Ray Shero and everyone else in the Pens organization who knows what they’re doing; far more than we do, believe this will work or they wouldn’t be doing. Staal is a top sox forward who will be entering his 5th season. His talent is being wasted as a checking line center.
The reasons Staal wasn’t on the top twoo lines of course was because of Sid & Geno but the other reason and most important is because it is luxery to have that many quality centers. But to have a checking center making 4 million is ridiculous. Staal is worth that kind money which means he is a top six forward. He;ll add more defense and room for Geno on the ice. The third line isn’t supposed to produce many goals but to give the team energy and check the other teams best lines. We get a great defensive center than that will help. But think of the second line as offensive and defensive with Staal’s checking ability and Geno’s take away ability.
Modano
i thought he was going to retire and/or that the Pens wanted someone who thought D 1st, 2nd, and 3rd…
Modano is a Centre — who, i think, can still perform at a pretty high level in a checking role
Guerin is a RW — who the Pens seem to have some questions about performing in a checking role
they are almost the same age, but Modano used to have BLAZING speed
i can still remember as a little kid listening to Mike Lange rave about him as the fastest guy in the NHL
(thinking to myself: Why isn’t he a Penguin!?!)
Guerin was never nearly as fast as Modano
and has slowed considerably
On The Other Hand
Of course this for the Red Wings. But it seems he’s keeping his options open.
“Modano said his role would probably be as the third-line center and a player on the second power play unit. It’s believed he’d make around $1 million to keep the Red Wings under the cap and to allow them the flexibility to sign some remaining players.”
“Modano said he toured Detroit, seeing where some of the players lived. He also had a long lunch with Holland and Babcock and stopped by his parents’ home. "
“They’d love to see it happen, but they’re not pressing in any way,” Modano said.
Just some of the article written by ESPNDallas Richard Burrett. Here’s the rest:
http://sports.espn.go.com/dallas/nhl/news/story?id=5359490
Sid & Geno's Salaries?
I’ve been wondering lately what if Sid & Geno re-signed with the team for 6 million instead of 8.7 million. I know this was 2-3 years ago but if that did happen then they’d surely have enough money 5.4 million along with 2.1 million this off season to sign a quality winger for Sid & possibly Geno as well. I know this is all hindsight 20/20 but it does have to make you wonder. If the cap doesn’t increase the next time we’re looking to re-sign both Sid & Geno you wonder if they would take a pay cut of 2.7 million realizing it will help the team acquire or sign quality wingers. I watched the Nightly Sports Call tonight and Ron Cook said in the salary cap world of the NHL you can’t have everything.
I think if Sid & Geno were making 6 million instead of 8.7 million then we’d have those quality wingers like a Kovalchuk and possibly Simon Gagne; who is a free agent next year & nothing would make me happier than for him to sign with us. Of course if he stays healthy he is just entering his prime and can still score 30+ goals. Too bad the NHL won’t let it’s players restructure their contracts like the NFL. I’m sure Sid & Geno as unselfish as they are would do it if it meant getting quality wingers. I’m not saying Sid & Geno don’t deserve the money they make but in terms of making the team better; I’d think they’d do it. Also moving Staal to a top 6 forward postion which I think is necessary for Staal’s offensive upside and talent; wouldn’t happen. What do you think? Maybe I’m thinking too much but alot of the best players in the league are making 6 million a year or just under that.
i posted on another Pensburgh thread that i wondered if Sid might re-sign for $8.7 again when his current deal is up. That’s HIS number, and if the cap continues to increase—even if just 5% per year—that would be free up some space percentage wise.
to take a $2.7M pay cut though — perhaps anything is possible — but i don’t see it
I’ve been wondering lately what if Sid & Geno re-signed with the team for 6 million instead of 8.7 million.
No offense, but I think this is about as unrealistic as you can get. Sid and Geno are both worth much more than $6M (Niklas Backstrom just signed at $6.7M), and there are plenty of GM’s who would be willing to throw double that amount at them.
Hockey Blogger at Pensburgh.com
My guess is if they had signed for $6 mil each back then, that money would be spent and we wouldn’t be talking about what to do with it but rather was it spent wisely. It could have and most likely would have changed everything that has happened since, including possibly not winning the Cup last year if Shero used all that extra cash to bring in the wrong people. It’s really not worth playing the whole ‘what if" game. Plus it’s about respect. Sure, these young guys are already rich beyond our wildest dreams, so they could afford to play for league minimum. But we can’t have the best players on our team and the best player in the world playing for so much less than they are worth. One result of that could be that it drives down the offers we make to other players. Could we have offered $5 mil to Martin if Sid and Geno only make 6? Who knows? I’d be willing to bet Kovy wouldn’t have come here for 6, so could we really pay that tool more than Sid and Geno? Hell no.
by PensAreYourDaddy on Jul 6, 2010 11:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I wasn’t suggesting paying Kovalchuk more. I know this is Sid & Geno’s team so nobody makes more. It was just thinking out loud. A suggestion. A simple thought. Nothing serious or realistic.
It was just thinking out loud. A suggestion. A simple thought. Nothing serious or realistic.
Oh yeah, definitely, that’s what July and August are for.
by PensAreYourDaddy on Jul 7, 2010 8:25 AM EDT up reply actions
I repeat what I said in a previous thread about Zherdev…
Nobody hates money that much
I can see Sid taking a pay cut. In fact, 8.7 is the huge ass paycut… Any less, he’ll just drop the bottom of the market on all NHL players…
Is it October yet?
Just so I never have to answer this again. I'm from Singapore so whenever you see me online, I'm either sleep deprived or just waking up.
I could see him taking a small pay cut from $8.7, since Staal’s contract will expire the same year Sid’s will. If Staal is demanding more money, I could see Sid taking a little bit less, so the Pens have room to sign Staal and himself that year, then Geno the next offseason.
But, they again, we all know who the organization is going to take care of first when Sid and Staal need to be resigned. So, maybe not. Hopefully, the salary cap will have increased by a few million when it’s time for the big 3 to be resigned and everyone is happy with the money they’re making.
I've told [a 9 months pregnant] Nathalie that she can't have the baby on a game night. I'm not missing a playoff game. -Mario Lemieux in 1993
don’t worry, if staalsy starts demanding obscene amounts of money, i’ll have words with him.
i like the pens, sidney crosby, jordan staal, and typing in capital letters.
one down
Rob Niedemyer signed with buffalo it looks like so that one C out….if Shero decides to do malkin/staal to wing thing
the Pens lose a small bit of negotiating leverage w/ the reduction in supply of 3Cs on the market
but i still think Halpern is the best available given our cap constraints
also, the longer Eric Belanger stays unemployed, the greater the chance Shero can work some magic — that’s a longshot, but he’d be even better
so…not really disappointed to see Nieds sign elsewhere
what is the $/term?
ouch. i read just slightly over $1M—whatever that means.
he expressed concerns about being a good fit in the Pens uptempo system.
so maybe he knew he couldn’t cut it.
Any thoughts on Dom Moore? He used to play for us right?
Is it October yet?
Just so I never have to answer this again. I'm from Singapore so whenever you see me online, I'm either sleep deprived or just waking up.
he’s pretty solid.
thought he was a great add by Shero when he became a Pen.
didn’t cost hardly anything, IIRC.
if he were a little bigger, he’d be perfect.
His scoting report makes him seem like a viable option, and he was great against the Pens in the playoffs. But I noticed a curious fact that is troublesome — in each of the past 4 seasons he was traded and then not resigned by his new team. Not a good sign.
Niedermeyer
Rob Niedermayer has signed a one-year deal with the Buffalo Sabres.
The deal is reportedly worth $1.15 million.
Source: TSN.ca
DePaoli reporting that DMoore’s camp has contacted the Pens.
Alighieri apparently is well-connected
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