Debating the Ring of Honor
by Hooks Orpik on Jul 8, 2010 10:45 AM EDT
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PrintSince it's summer, let's talk about a subject fans love to talk about: retiring numbers of former greats. In three years of blogging, I've had fans make cases that any number of former Penguins should have their number retired by the team. Jaromir Jagr, Ron Francis, even Ulf Samuelsson.
Puck Daddy brings up the subject of retired numbers and addresses the "Ring of Honor" that many teams, including the Penguins use to pay tribute to special players in franchise history without giving the ultimate honor of taking the jersey number out of circulation.
The criteria for retiring jerseys varies a lot from team to team and just take a look at the Wiki list and you'll see there's a lot of non-legendary names (at least in the present day). Personally I like the way the Penguins do it: they've retired Michel Briere's #21 in honor of his life cut tragically short in a car wreck after the team's first season. If you're a younger or newer fan and don't know much about Briere, here's a great piece about him to brush up on your Penguin knowledge.
Along with Briere, obviously they've retired Mario Lemieux's #66. Little more needs to be said about what Lemieux's meant to the team, he's arguably the most important single athlete to any one franchise.
If anything, I wish the Pens would highlight Briere's number, as it was kind of "hidden" behind the Lemieux banner from many angles of the Mellon Arena, and not hung side by side as most retired numbers are in other cities. Then again, Mario literally owns the team and whatever he wants to do for this minor detail is fine enough by me. And Mellon Arena did have that domed roof, so perhaps it wasn't a possibility due to the structure. I suppose we'll see in the nice and flat Consol Energy Center.
Speaking of the new barn: Chris DeVivo, the Pens Director of Media Technology, has some cool tricks up his sleeve. He told me in April that along an entrance of the new arena will be over a dozen flat-screen TV's recessed in the wall. The screens will display pictures and information about great players and even have some interactive aspects for fans to enjoy. And since it is "new media", the information can and will be changed and updated so that it's not just the same old stuff over and over again. I'll ask him for an update about this feature, perhaps he'll have a blog entry about it soon if he can or has any more he'd like to share.
Now for the Pens debate: would you retire any more numbers? Jagr had a great 11 year run in Pittsburgh, but he likely won't finish his career here. Francis, while a terrific player and totally class guy, means more to the Hartford/Carolina franchise than to the Pens. Would you like to see them retire any numbers and cheapen the standard that's been set? That standard being unless you die or literally save the franchise on and off the ice, a number won't be retired in Pittsburgh.
Personally, I'm a huge Jagr fan, but I wouldn't retire his number. Same goes for any other great in Penguins' history. No one has done enough to meet the standard of Lemieux. I love that they have the ring of honor to pay homage to the past -- especially for guys like Bob Johnson and Herb Brooks -- but there's something to say for keeping the highest honor very rare.
Perhaps, if everything goes as we hope and they play their entire careers here, in 15-20 years we could debate whether any of Sidney Crosby, Evgeni Malkin or Marc-Andre Fleury deserve the honor to join Briere and Lemieux in the rafters.
The new arena doesn't seat 18,087 by accident, so right now if you asked me who the next retired number in Pittsburgh would be, I would say Crosby. That obviously won't be happening for a long, long time and hopefully if/when it'll does, the number will join a couple more Stanley Cup banners that currently aren't in position.
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I love that they have the ring of honor to pay homage to the past — especially for guys like Bob Johnson and Herb Brooks — but there’s something to say for keeping the highest honor very rare.
Exactly.
No one else meets that standard.
Hopefully some of today’s stars will…eventually.
I think Jagr should be added to the list simply because he’s one of the top scorers in NHL history. Players around him have had their numbers retired and his should be as well. The only thing holding him back is the way he left Pittsburgh. Other than Lemieux, Briere and Jagr, I don’t think any the retired players should have their numbers retired. I know there have been a ton of great players to lace up for the Pens, but that’s my list. It would be nice to see Crosby, Malkin and Fleury’s numbers up there too, but the probability of them being with the Pens long enough to win a few more Cups is unlikely simply based on the salary cap. I can see Sid being a life-long Penguins simply because he’s the face of the franchise and I’d like to see MAF and Geno retire here as well, but you never know what will happen.
by Mario's Mullet on Jul 8, 2010 11:42 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Nobody will ever meet the standard of Lemieux, ever
The NHL has changed. Lemieux averaged 1.88 points/game over his career. Nobody will come close to touching that again, unless the NHL significantly changes rules or something in the future. He’s easily one of the best 2 to ever play the game – but holding everyone else to that standard is ridiculous. Not even Crosby should have his number retired then, unless he wins 5+ Cups here in his career.
But Jagr should certainly have his number retired when he hangs up the skates.
He’s 9th on the All-Time points list in NHL history, surrounded by all Hall of Famers – Esposito, Bourque, Yzerman, and Sakic will be in the HOF. The vast majority of those points were with the Penguins and we all know what he did in terms of scoring titles & championships. He’s the only one who’s ever worn #68 in franchise history and the only one who should ever wear it. Not retiring the number of one of the 10 best scorers in the history of the game would be a monumental sin.
There are two theories on hitting a knuckleball - unfortunately, neither of them work.
by BobPurkey34 on Jul 8, 2010 11:28 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
I agree with you that no one but Gretz can really even hold a candle to Mario and certainly no in the Pens franchise, but I think you have to look at the different eras here. In his era, Mario was far and away the most important player to the franchise…can’t even stress that enough. Now, it’s Sid. I love Geno, but if the Pens had to pick him or Sid, I think we all know what would happen. On those terms I think it’s a given that Sid is one day up there.
I've told [a 9 months pregnant] Nathalie that she can't have the baby on a game night. I'm not missing a playoff game. -Mario Lemieux in 1993
I would prefer to see the honour of retiring a number be reserved for very, very rare instances for people who have meant much to the team, the development of the team, to the city and to hockey. With so many wonderful players passing through, there are many greats who could be considered, but I like that it is just Lemieux and Briere. The ring of honour pays homage to the rest.
Retiring Numbers...
Ok, I am going to go out on a limb here, sort of, but I agree with Su here. I HATE IT when teams retire numbers. It drives me nuts. Yeah, guys like Mario, Jagr and Sid come every 15 or so years, but for crying out loud..when does it end? What player in his right mind is going to wear 87 or 68 anyway? Meaning in Pittsburgh after Jagr and Sid. Probably not too many. Take teams like the Yankees, they are going to be in trouble if they keep doing what they are doing. I love the ring of honor idea. This way, you can recognize not just players, but Coaches and Management who deserve to be up there also.
Just like Su said, in very, very, VERY rare instances should teams be allowed to retire numbers. Don’t get me started on the #99 either. Man do I respect Wayne Gretzky, but across the league? Come on!
by Wags24 on Jul 8, 2010 11:37 AM EDT reply actions
Or the Montreal Canadiens, who have an entire roof of retired numbers…
I’d hate to be like that. The ring of honor is nice for players with significant contributions. So I don’t advocate retiring numbers just for the hell of doing it. But with that being said, we would be incomprehensibly wrong to not retire Jagr’s number.
There are two theories on hitting a knuckleball - unfortunately, neither of them work.
it’s not just a number thing. It’s a tradition. I personally hate the way the Habs or the Celtics (NBA) do it where the players will eventually have to wear letters or symbols because there just aren’t enough numbers anymore…
You’re right, Gretzky was awesome but it shouldn’t have been league wide.
Is it October yet?
Just so I never have to answer this again. I'm from Singapore so whenever you see me online, I'm either sleep deprived or just waking up.
good call...
That would be crazy…
CANADIENS GOAL SCORE BY…..Letter AY, Pierre LaDeuche…
Doesn’t work, does it? I agree with you Bob…Jagr, Mario, Briere, Sid…as of right now, that’s about all I have for guys that should have it retired. Jagr, may take some time. Sid, yeah, he has some time too…and some Cups to win!
by Wags24 on Jul 8, 2010 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Agreed
The damn Canadians could one day force the NHL to use three-digit numbers.
by Mario's Mullet on Jul 8, 2010 11:59 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Okay … I’m gonna jump in here before I’ve actually read all 88 or so comments that piled up today … so forgive me if I’m repeating stuff that’s already been mentioned.
The Habs have a long legacy and they are very, very tied to their history. Believe it or not, though, they actually only have 15 jersey numbers retired (for 17 players) … plus Gretzky’s 99. (If you don’t believe me, check out their website, under the ‘Players’ tab.) All things considered, I’d say they’ve done a good job at finding balance, and taking the ‘honouring’ thing seriously. I can’t name a single player on the list who isn’t really, really deserving of the honour.
Shero gets an A. Burkie gets a checkmark.
What player in his right mind is going to wear 87 or 68 anyway?
Some douche Toronto rookie had the audacity to wear #66 in Pittsburgh during an exhibition game last year.
I've told [a 9 months pregnant] Nathalie that she can't have the baby on a game night. I'm not missing a playoff game. -Mario Lemieux in 1993
To be fair – rookies don’t generally get to choose their own numbers, especially for exhibition games. Blame the Maple Leafs for giving that number to the kid (who rightfully got mercilessly booed for wearing that number in the Igloo – the kid should have refused to put that number on his back :P ).
I also recall a Detroit rookie goaltender wearing 66 during a rookie tournament a few years back as well. So, yes, it can happen.
That said, the Penguins will never allow another player to wear 68 or 87 on a Pens sweater, regardless of whether the numbers are officially retired or not.
I like the ring of honor… and no, i won’t retire Jagr’s number. To me, retiring a number is more than just value to the league and numbers. There should be an investment of the player in, not only the team, but also the city and the community that houses this franchise.
To me, the way the Pens do it seems fine. Had Briere not had his career tragically cut short, he’d probably end up with crazy numbers and jumpstarted the Penguins development as a franchise. Mario is Mario, nuff said.
There should be an exclusivity to the numbers being retired. If I had my way, we’d see Sid’s retired after (hopefully) even more years of success. If he never took that first pay cut, guys like Geno would most likely follow the precedent. He’s a league phenomenon but is still invested in our success. Much as I love MAF, Geno & Staalsy to pieces, I don’t see their jerseys being retired.
You need a once in a generation leader & face of the franchise to define that generation. To me, that’s my criteria.
Although if there is one banner I wanna see raised. It’s BAdger Bob.
Is it October yet?
Just so I never have to answer this again. I'm from Singapore so whenever you see me online, I'm either sleep deprived or just waking up.
Honestly...
IMO, this is exactly what the debate will be inside the Penguins organization when it comes time to discuss this and you are dead on….this is what people will say, no doubt. He did great things for the team and the city, but in the end, it wasn’t really a good separation…we shall see. After all, I was at his first game back in a Caps uniform and he got a Standing-O…
I still like Jags!
by Wags24 on Jul 8, 2010 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions
I think there’s forgiveness, especially among the Pens brass about how Jagr left. He was whiny and miserable and requested trades, but everyone knew he had an “out there” personality.
And the root of Jagr’s problem was he knew the team would lose him as a free agent after 2002 anyways, so they might as well trade him, get some value back and maybe be able to keep all the other guys (Straka, Kovalev, Lang, etc) around to still have a good team. Jagr didn’t want to be seen as the reason the Pens would lose all those other guys.
In the end, I don’t think the root of Jagr’s departure tips the scales on whether or not he gets the honor. The fact he did go on to play only about half his pro career in PIttsburgh does have to factor in though.
"Game's the same. Just got more fierce."
In all honesty, his departure from the Penguins shouldn’t change anything.
Fact is, we don’t have 2 Cups in the early 90s without him. Fact is, we don’t remain a force in the East in the mid-90s without him. He’s the 2nd best player in franchise history and the #68 should hang from the Consol Energy Center when he retires from hockey.
There are two theories on hitting a knuckleball - unfortunately, neither of them work.
i can’t remember but wasn’t he a rookie when we won our 2nd cup?
/checks wikipedia/hates wikipedia
or at least he didn’t really blow up as a Penguins hero until our 2nd right?
Either way, the history books will always see him as second banana to Mario. You don’t see many teams give such honors to sidekicks. The Bulls did Pippen but basketball is more dependent on less players to have an impact on teams. Plus Pippen was a real soldier and could’ve led other contenders by himself.
Jagr has not proven that kind of leadership or contribution to the city of Pittsburgh. Except for one ill-fated injury in NYR, he never reached the Mario-fueled peak ever again.
As much as I respect his talent, he’s just not AS deserving.
Is it October yet?
Just so I never have to answer this again. I'm from Singapore so whenever you see me online, I'm either sleep deprived or just waking up.
Fact is, we don’t have 2 Cups in the early 90s without him
he didn’t do much during the 1st Cup run
3 goals in 24 playoff games
I think it was a stretch to say the Pens “wouldn’t” have won the first Cup without Jagr — he was basically getting 3rd line minutes if my really young memory holds. Certainly he wasn’t a focus point.
You have to credit Jagr as a driving force in the repeat in ’92, but I think he was more along the ride in his rookie year.
"Game's the same. Just got more fierce."
Jagr was huge in ‘92, but not so much in ’91. There’s probably 4 or 5 players who you could say we wouldn’t have won either cup without (Stevens, Francis, Barrasso, Murphy, etc…), and I don’t think any of them deserves to have their number retired.
I’m on the fence on Jagr. Definitely nobody other than him is even close at this point. Ulf Samuelsson? That’s crazy, even Gonchar is more deserving.
he didn’t do much during the 1st Cup run
3 goals in 24 playoff games
3 goals and 10 assists. His 13 points weren’t far behind Francis’ and Mullens’ 17 each. I guess they didn’t do much either?
Jags did set the NHL record for rookie assists in the Cup Finals with 5.
by PensAreYourDaddy on Jul 8, 2010 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions
In all honesty, his departure from the Penguins shouldn’t change anything.
Fact is, we don’t have 2 Cups in the early 90s without him. Fact is, we don’t remain a force in the East in the mid-90s without him. He’s the 2nd best player in franchise history and the #68 should hang from the Consol Energy Center when he retires from hockey.
^
this
Jagr without question. And heres my prediction, Crosby yes, Malkin no, Fleury no. Crosby will never leave. I feel malkin may be gone after his contract is up here, MAYBE. Fleury will eventually be a UFA and signed by another team but not after his current contract.
by biggoron on Jul 8, 2010 12:30 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I think Fleury would have to really surpass the Barrasso bar to have a chance:
—More than 2 Stanley Cups
—More than Barrasso’s games played, wins, shutouts
—More time here than Barrasso’s 12 years
If MAF meets all three of those conditions he has a strong case. If he doesn’t, he doesn’t.
"Game's the same. Just got more fierce."
by Hooks Orpik on Jul 8, 2010 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
doesn’t stop us from loving him as much as we do… But I hope he at least beats the length of Barrasso’s tenure here… He has a major chance to too considering he signed younger
Is it October yet?
Just so I never have to answer this again. I'm from Singapore so whenever you see me online, I'm either sleep deprived or just waking up.
I feel malkin may be gone after his contract is up here
this is funny
no one would have thought of saying that after last year
prediction: we see Malkin return to form in 2010-11
The Malkin theory has been around. And it may be right. The Pens have 2 of the 3 biggest cap hits in the league. Who knows if they can maintain a championship caliber team like that forever.
It’s nothing to worry about now, but when Crosby negotiates his next contract, if he goes down to a Backstrom/Richards type super long contract with a lesser cap hit, that’s going to put a lot of pressure on Malkin and the Pens sign for the same again or look to move him.
I guess we’ll see and it’s way too forward looking with a lot of unknown variables left to be decided.
"Game's the same. Just got more fierce."
that’s going to put a lot of pressure on Malkin and the Pens sign for the same again or look to move him.
That’s exactly my theory. Even though Geno can be Crosby’s equal at times, there’s no way they give Malkin more years or more money. Although, since he hasn’t been an ego guy like some people *cough*Kovy*cough*, I think he’ll sign for equal or less value than Sid.
However, I do think the two superstars will have to take minor discounts if they’re signing long term.
I've told [a 9 months pregnant] Nathalie that she can't have the baby on a game night. I'm not missing a playoff game. -Mario Lemieux in 1993
I really, really hope that Sid says no to those ridiculously long term deals and just decides he’d rather take (far) less than he’s worth on the open market in order to preserve his chances for great teammates and a winning team (which of course leads to even more endorsements, so the money gets made back anyway). We have a while until this plays out, but my rather naive self hopes it turns out this way, and not in the 12-year, front-end-loaded way.
Shero gets an A. Burkie gets a checkmark.
I get taking a discount, but why wouldn’t you want the franchise player and arguably the NHL’s best player locked for a long term deal?
I've told [a 9 months pregnant] Nathalie that she can't have the baby on a game night. I'm not missing a playoff game. -Mario Lemieux in 1993
Because they’re generally bad for cap and team management in the long term. I suppose with Sid it might not be such a problem, but there’s just so much unknown in that long term that I think it’s better to avoid it. I guess Sid is still so freakin’ young that a long term deal wouldn’t put him past his prime, etc. (although Sid past his prime will still be pretty good!).
More than anything, I think it’s because I have an aversion to loopholes, and even more so to loopholes that are about tacking millions on to an already extremely rich young man. At some point I’d like to believe that it’s not about business and making money.
I’m not sure I’ve explained myself well, but hopefully you get the sentiment(s) I’m after.
Shero gets an A. Burkie gets a checkmark.
I don’t think it’ll matter once his contract is up, as the loophole will probably be closed after the current CBA. But I agree with you, I hate those loophole contracts. They feel so dirty.
by Hatt the Moople on Jul 8, 2010 9:47 PM EDT up reply actions
actually i did, for a couple years now. Call it the “Russian effect” but I felt that before his initial contract was up that either:
A) he wouldnt want to play 2nd fiddle to Crosby
B) He would demand more money than we were willing to give him.
I’m not saying he will be gone due to performance, I think he’ll price himself to high and want to leave
I’m not saying he will be gone due to performance, I think he’ll price himself to high and want to leave
A lot of people thought that would happen when the entry level ran out, it didn’t. It depends on things play out, starting with Crosby’s new deal I suppose.
"Game's the same. Just got more fierce."
honestly, i get the feeling that geno isn’t one who loves being the center of attention. i think he’s more than happy to pass the spotlight to sidney.
i like the pens, sidney crosby, jordan staal, and typing in capital letters.
Jagr shouldn’t even be a question; I would expect this to happen not long after he retires. Regardless of the negatives he brought towards the end, he did an enormous amount for hockey in Pittsburgh in the 90s, and was one of the most exciting players that I’ve ever seen in person. The 400+ goals he scored in a Pens sweater have to mean something.
I actually think Crosby and Malkin will both play the bulk of their careers in Pittsburgh, and wouldn’t be surprised to see both numbers retired here. Fleury I’m not sure about; I guess it’s hard for goalies to be so tremendous for so long that they seem worthy of the honor.
P is for Latrobe.
Retire #68
JAGR – Absolutely!!!!!!! The man brought us 5 (FIVE!) Art Ross titles, a Hart Trophy and 2 (of his 3) Lester B. Pearsons (Ted Lindsay Trophy now…). Sid will be VERY hard pressed to put up the totals and win the amount of individual awards that Jags did. He absolutely dominated the league and had people talking about him having an “extra gear” that only the Lemieux’s and Gretzky’s could access. As talented a player that ever played, regardless of attitude. Most of his success came a Pen, and he should be so honored, as I’m sure he will go into the HOF as a Pittsburgh Penguin.
Not too mention that him, Lemieux and Sid share the syndrome of being repeatedly robbed for the Hart…
RETIRE JAGR #68!!!
PS – I also believe that Sid will be a Pen of life, I would bet anything on it. It’s not hard to fathom Geno moving on and becoming the franchise player he’s meant to be…and I STILL can’t gauge MAF. I was sold on him after the Stanley Cup win, but last year’s floundering (at times) performances have brought back all my old questions…should have every opportunity to succeed next year though, with extra time to recover/train, and a new powerhouse D corps in front of him. Can’t wait for October!
by LastSonOfKrypton on Jul 8, 2010 12:59 PM EDT reply actions
Oh, and Pens fan or not, GRETZKY is the greatest of all time and certainly deserves to have his number retired league wide.
If only to stop the blood thirsty mobs from tearing apart the hapless fool who had the nerve to don the #99 in the future, lol.
What about Rick Kehoe?
by LastSonOfKrypton on Jul 8, 2010 1:03 PM EDT reply actions
Without looking it up, do you know what jersey number Kehoe wore? I don’t. That says enough right there for me. If you haven’t won anything and you’re not an icon, you don’t get your jersey retired.
"Game's the same. Just got more fierce."
Kehoe wore #17
But I wouldn’t even think of retiring it. I’d retire Pronovost before Kehoe, but still neither. Jagr is the only one deserving of the honor at the moment.
There are two theories on hitting a knuckleball - unfortunately, neither of them work.
i’m against it (see above) but I guess there are worse things than retiring Jags’ #68. Can’t believe how polarizing he still is here on Pensburgh especially with his last game for the Pens so long (and a Stanley Cup) ago…
Is it October yet?
Just so I never have to answer this again. I'm from Singapore so whenever you see me online, I'm either sleep deprived or just waking up.
Can you imagine if the Pens retire Jags #68? Comparing him to Mario’s contributions and Briere’s potential plus Sid’s achievements (because he’s the odds on favorite to have his number hanging), it just seems like a wash.
Is it October yet?
Just so I never have to answer this again. I'm from Singapore so whenever you see me online, I'm either sleep deprived or just waking up.
Yes, I can easily imagine that
The man won FIVE ART ROSS TROPHIES as a Penguin. Was a Hart Finalist five times. Has over 1000 points in a Penguin uniform.
Sid would need to average over 100 points for the next five seasons to even match that. There’s no guarantee he’ll even be in a Penguin uniform in that time
As for Briere, we can talk about all his potential but that’s great – it doesn’t mean anything. His number should definitely be retired YES but to talk about him as one of the best players in franchise history is a major slap in the face to those who actually did it.
There are two theories on hitting a knuckleball - unfortunately, neither of them work.
Sid would need to average over 100 points for the next five seasons to even match that. There’s no guarantee he’ll even be in a Penguin uniform in that time
I’m sorry, but I think it’s safe to say that he’ll be in a Pen uni.
I think he’ll also pass Jagr in terms of franchise scoring. If you look at Sid’s age over the next five years (23-28), I think it’’ll happen in the next five years. If not, he definitely does it within his career.
I've told [a 9 months pregnant] Nathalie that she can't have the baby on a game night. I'm not missing a playoff game. -Mario Lemieux in 1993
It may be safe to assume. I’m sure he stays too – but it isn’t written in stone.
There are two theories on hitting a knuckleball - unfortunately, neither of them work.
Oh yeah, for sure…nothing is set in stone.
As for passing Jagr…If Sid were to play all 82 games for the next 5 season, and keep his career average of 1.364 points per game, he would have 1065 points for his career as a Pen. Jagr’s career point totals with the Pens is 1,079 points.
Considering the fact that Sid hasn’t entered his prime (that is very scary to think about), but also the fact that it’s very unlikely he plays all 82 games every year, I think it’s still up in the air whether or not he passes Jagr in the next five years.
I've told [a 9 months pregnant] Nathalie that she can't have the baby on a game night. I'm not missing a playoff game. -Mario Lemieux in 1993
Sid At His Prime
I think Sid can—and will—surpass Jagr’s numbers. If he stays healthy, plays all 82 games, wait til he reaches his prime!!!
I am so looking forward to watching him grow and develop.
May he exceed and surpass the best of the past: look forward to the future.
One Who Lives And Breathes All Things Penguins
by PensFanInDenver on Jul 8, 2010 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions
If he improves every year like we all think he will, one or two big years within the next 5 could get him past Jagr.
I think it’s a little too risky to say that he’ll do it within 5 years, but he’ll definitely do it because, at least in my mind, I think he’s decided he’s a Pen for life.
I've told [a 9 months pregnant] Nathalie that she can't have the baby on a game night. I'm not missing a playoff game. -Mario Lemieux in 1993
but he’ll definitely do it in his career
I've told [a 9 months pregnant] Nathalie that she can't have the baby on a game night. I'm not missing a playoff game. -Mario Lemieux in 1993
Yes!!!!!!!!!!
I hope Sid stay a Pen for life!!!
One Who Lives And Breathes All Things Penguins
by PensFanInDenver on Jul 8, 2010 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I kinda like the way the Steelers do it: only one number is ‘officially’ retired, but that doesn’t mean all the other numbers are available. There was a guy who got stripped of #32 because he ’wasn’t as good as Franco’
I love Jagr, but I don’t think he’ll be retired. Either way, I highly doubt anyone will ever wear 68 again, though Goligoski came close when he wore #67
Agree with retiring 68
It’s no accident that he is right there with Mario in the middle of the Ring of Honor.
.
.
It isn’t like anyone is going to be foolish enough to request #68 in the future, but it’s time to honor the second greatest Penguin ever.
by PensAreYourDaddy on Jul 8, 2010 1:26 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
They give ‘em some pretty goofy numbers at developmental camp, but that’s team issued stuff. I doubt anyone requests 68.
There’s a guy Mike Duco who played in Florida that wore 68 last season in the NHL. Very unusual.
"Game's the same. Just got more fierce."
Maybe they do it for a reason?
Exceptional players might not want to be compared with others. There’s a ton of players who have worn #9 or 10, etc. Wearing a number like 66, 68, 71, 77, 87, it makes you unique
There are two theories on hitting a knuckleball - unfortunately, neither of them work.
Brashear wears/wore 87… So idk how unique that number is anymore… There’s probably another 1 or 2 i can’t remember at the moment
Wasn’t he in the league before Sid though? I don’t think you see any new players wearing 87,8, or 71.
I've told [a 9 months pregnant] Nathalie that she can't have the baby on a game night. I'm not missing a playoff game. -Mario Lemieux in 1993
Well, Geno did have the balls to come in and wear Jiri Slegr’s number, so you never know.
by PensAreYourDaddy on Jul 8, 2010 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
This is true
but does ANYBODY think of Donald Brashear instead of Crosby when the number 87 comes to mind?
There are two theories on hitting a knuckleball - unfortunately, neither of them work.
Only when I’m thinking of guys from whom the number should be taken away.
by PensAreYourDaddy on Jul 8, 2010 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Well we can’t forget about the wonderful Capitals jerseys saying Crosby Sucks 87… im sure Donny was real happy about that while he was there.
Yeah, luckily there isn’t any Crosby obsession going on there.
by PensAreYourDaddy on Jul 8, 2010 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions
He only sucks because he held the Cup.
I've told [a 9 months pregnant] Nathalie that she can't have the baby on a game night. I'm not missing a playoff game. -Mario Lemieux in 1993
Shhh
Caps fans don’t know what that is…
The only know about the President’s Trophy
There are two theories on hitting a knuckleball - unfortunately, neither of them work.
Oh yeah
Forgot about that.
They must hate him because they wish Ovechkin would work as hard as Crosby does not only in-game, but in the off season.
I mean it’s not like Crosby does this on vacation:
I've told [a 9 months pregnant] Nathalie that she can't have the baby on a game night. I'm not missing a playoff game. -Mario Lemieux in 1993
Oh, good Lord. I just hope it wasn’t Geno that gave him the hat and glasses like at the all-star game a couple years back.
by PensAreYourDaddy on Jul 8, 2010 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions
rumor (which is probably totally not true, but it’s july) has it that he’s recording a rap single. do you have any idea how badly i want this to be true?
i like the pens, sidney crosby, jordan staal, and typing in capital letters.
I hope it’s better than his first effort.
by PensAreYourDaddy on Jul 8, 2010 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions
That does look like Ovie's type of work
But not Sid’s.
Thank goodness…
One Who Lives And Breathes All Things Penguins
by PensFanInDenver on Jul 8, 2010 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I still believe that we win 4 or more cups if Badger Bob doesn't pass.
His ability to instill BELIEF into his players was never more evident than the cup run of ’91. His ability to get guys like Trottier and Mullen to take a backseat to the “new” superstars of the team and work as great lower tier guys was phenomenal. His ability to get guys like Loney and Borque to ALWAYS do the little things to make the 3rd and 4th lines successful defensively, with the occasional helper on offense, was phenomenal. His ability to create the right match-ups for the offensive lines or defensive pairings was unmatched in 1991. His ability to get the most out of the best player in the game by showing him that scoring all by yourself all the time was not going to win cups was remarkable.
Badger Bob was, IMHO, the best coach the Penguins will ever have. No other coach was as well loved or sorely missed in the City of Pittsburgh in 1991, before or since. He should be in the ring of honor.
I also believe that Jagr should be there one day, maybe…
What's 66+21?
Hmm….a little bit of destiny for Sid?
I think it’s an absolute given that Sidney Crosby not only spends his career in Pitt, but also puts up many championship banners as well as his own banner. I think they can even start carving out the statue for the front of the arena.
I would say the same for Malkin, but I don’t know if it’s a given that he’s in Pitt for his entire career.
As for the Pens of the past, I’m a little young, but I think Jagr gets put up.
I've told [a 9 months pregnant] Nathalie that she can't have the baby on a game night. I'm not missing a playoff game. -Mario Lemieux in 1993
What’s 66+21?
I never thought of that, pretty freaky.
Say, do you know if you scramble around “Jaromir” you can come up with “Mario Jr”?
"Game's the same. Just got more fierce."
That is ironic
There are two theories on hitting a knuckleball - unfortunately, neither of them work.
I’d consider Jagr of course. But I’d also consider Francis, Stevens, Murphy, Barrasso and Coffey.
Jagr because his career will always be remembered as a Penguin
Stevens was apart of this franchise for a long time and still is. His career and impact on the teams that won in 1991 & 1992 shouldn’t go unnioticed.
Francis, Murphy and Coffey changed the outlook of whether the teams in the 90’s could win. Especially when Francis was acquired that put the Pens at a new level.
Barrasso is statiscally the greatest American goalie in the NHL’s history and most of his great stas where done with Pittsburgh.
As I’ve said before with the core players of this team locked up, the new arena and the winter classic. I don’t think nothing would be better than to top it off with retiring a former players’ jersey. Maybe a tribute to the man that built all the successful Pens teams of the 90’s Craig Patrick. Also, I love the Pens Ring of Honor and I hope something like that is done in the new arena. Maybe a tribute to Pierre LaRouche, Syl Apps and Lowell McDonald as well. Even though this franchise wasn’t always successful in terms of winning seasons when they got started they had some good players. Now they weren’t at the level of Lemieux, Jagr and Francis but when reading the stats they had some good years in Pittsburgh. There are alot of pro sports teams that honor players that weren’t successful in winning championships. It’d be good for younger kids or new fans of Pens hockey to understand where the franchise has been, where it was and why it is in the direction it is in.
i think the precedent was set that prior to 2001, Briere never had his jersey retired and after him, not one of the cup winning contributors like Coffey, Tommy B, Mullins or Stevens was retired… By putting in only Mario since then, the bar was set way too high…
Jags is a HOF first ballot and there are worse things than having his number retired but his lack of involvement in the community & the manner he left us puts a bad taste in my mouth for this.
Similarly how until Lou steps down, NJD will never retire Niedermayer’s jersey.
Is it October yet?
Just so I never have to answer this again. I'm from Singapore so whenever you see me online, I'm either sleep deprived or just waking up.
the original line i wrote read:
Jags is a HOF first ballot and there are worse things than having his number retired and one of the greatest pens of all time
Notice how easy it was to say that he was one of the greatest Pens… I guess that’s never in doubt and possibly the best endorsement of his number being retired.
Boy, do I hate it when I contradict myself.
Is it October yet?
Just so I never have to answer this again. I'm from Singapore so whenever you see me online, I'm either sleep deprived or just waking up.
Interesting Site about current/former jerseys numbers
Not sure how accurate it is but: http://www.sihrhockey.org/public_nhl_jersey_numbers.cfm?num=77&t=0
retire
retire artie
tommy b
and murph
is mullens number retired? if not it should be
" Lord Stanley, scratch thier names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009
http://www.pensburgh.com/2010/7/8/1559102/should-the-penguins-retire-jaromir
We needed a poll on retiring Jagr’s number. Check it out and vote yes or no
There are two theories on hitting a knuckleball - unfortunately, neither of them work.
It’s kicked up a lot of interest, and a lot more positive than I thought it’d be. I’ll put a poll up to see how the totals go.
"Game's the same. Just got more fierce."
I've seen a few mentions of Jagr as second banana, sidekick, forever in Lemieux's shadow.
Jags had 4 full seasons to prove himself without Mario. In that time, he won 1 Hart Trophy in 99 and was a finalist 3 other times (95, 98, 00). So don’t get the idea that he was only riding Mario’s coattails. He was an all-time talent, one of the best ever at his position.
And yes, I did post this same info in the “should we retire #68?” thread. So, no, this isn’t deja vu.
by PensAreYourDaddy on Jul 8, 2010 9:55 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
If I’m not mistaken,the retired number thing takes care of itself in house….they just won’t give out 68….Talbot got 25 from his locker-room behavior,not his on-ice actions(granted,it was after Gonchar was signed and took 55 back in 2006)….Retiring a number should still be considered serious business…
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