Evgeni Malkin: Not So Good on the Draw
Derek from Cooper N Blue takes a look at some of the younger guys and their success rates in the faceoff circle. Geno didn't do so well. Or even improve much for that matter.
over 1 year ago
FrankD
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Crosby having so dramatically improved this season with the faceoffs, prompted me to pay closer attention whenever Crosby and Malkin took faceoffs. I wanted to try and see what Crosby was doing right, and by extension, Malkin doing wrong.
While I’m by no means any expert, I did notice one thing.
On offensive zone facefoffs, more often than not Geno seems to try creating something immediately off the faceoff, rather than just trying to win the puck. Whereas Crosby, in my eyes, appears to focus on gaining puck possession. Naturally, I’m not trying to say Malkin will always try to create something, or Crosby never does. I’m just saying, it seems to me, that Malkin will try the fancy move more often than Crosby.
Obviously, this alone doesn’t account for the 15% difference between the two in faceoff-wins, especially considering it’s limited to the offensive zone, but it could be a contributing factor.
I’ve also wondered, perhaps Geno just isn’t “dirty” enough? By all accounts, it takes a certain amount of trickery and underhandedness to consistently win faceoffs, and I suspect Malkin just doesn’t have it in him.
I have never been a hockey player, but given all the talent that Malkin has, sometimes I wonder why he has so much trouble with faceoffs. Personally, I think it’s because he doesn’t “cheat” enough. Another factor that I wonder about is that it seems that the coaches spend all this time working with Crosby, but I never hear about them working with Malkin. Maybe the face-off drills aren’t mandatory, and Malkin chooses to either to marginally part take in them or he doesn’t do them at all, but I think once a center is sitting at or below a 45% FO success rate, that that’s when the coaching staff needs to say “hey, you need to work on this.”
Obviously, since it looks like Malkin is going to wing this year, none of this matters, but this is just something that I’ve thought about in the past.
So when's October you ask? Well, here's your answer.
To be fair, they worked with Crosby because Crosby decided he wanted them to work on his faceoffs with him. There are “face-off drills”, and then there’s the “extra credit” work that Sid has done on them.
Shero gets an A. Burkie gets a checkmark.
My understanding is that Crosby, and also Staal to a lesser extent, had some of the coaches or each other imitate different players to try to improve in addition to requesting drill after drill to improve.
three cheers for staalsy. /bias
we're not trading jordan staal.
by katielynn906 on Aug 23, 2010 10:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t doubt that.
What I wish would’ve happened is that the coaching staff would’ve said to Geno “hey, your FO #‘s aren’t good. We need to work on this.” Regardless of whether or not Crosby and Staal did it voluntarily.
So when's October you ask? Well, here's your answer.
by PensFan8725 on Aug 24, 2010 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Faco-offs Too
For all the credit Sid got for shooting more and thus scoring more goals (league leader) there hasn’t been much talk about his face-offs. He really worked on it alot in the off season last year and it paid off big time. And just like the goal scoring he became one of the best in the league at it.
I wonder what he’s got in store for this season. Although there’s not much more for him to improve on. ;)
I know, right?!
It looks like he’s going to have an extra gear this season.
This may sound greedy, but I hope he worked on his slapshot as well. Knowing Sid, he probably did.
So when's October you ask? Well, here's your answer.
Because every post should include a picture...
.
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It seems like taller guys are at a bit of a disadvantage on faceoffs because the lower you get to the ice, I think the better off you’ll be. I doubt we’ll ever see Geno get to be as good as Sid, but hopefully he can improve this part of his game.
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by PensAreYourDaddy on Aug 22, 2010 5:39 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
felt a little off seeing #18 at the bottom…
I think the height isn’t an issue. No matter how tall you are you are gonna have to get low to win the puck anyway… Any advantage of being closer to the ice seems negligible. It seems to be more about reaction time (which Geno has in abundance) & the ability & willingness to hedge your body to win the puck…
Geno has the size to do so, but when he starts to throw his weight around, we might see better FO %.
Is it October yet?
Just so I never have to answer this again. I'm from Singapore so whenever you see me online, I'm either sleep deprived or just waking up.
felt a little off seeing #18 at the bottom…
Sorry, had to go back a ways to find a photo of Geno winning a faceoff.
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by PensAreYourDaddy on Aug 22, 2010 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
You would think that the taller you are, the longer the stick you can have, and the easier it would be to take face offs. That’s not even mentioning the physical ability size gives you.
I’ve never played hockey, but for all the times I’ve seen face offs it seems to come down to the guys who have technique, but really they just have figured out how to cheat and the guys who don’t.
So when's October you ask? Well, here's your answer.
Everybody’s stick reaches the ice, so I don’t think it matters how long it is.
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by PensAreYourDaddy on Aug 22, 2010 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, after I posted that I figured out how dumb it sounded.
It made sense in my head, so it went to text…
So when's October you ask? Well, here's your answer.
by PensFan8725 on Aug 22, 2010 10:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Eh, if it is a disadvantage, it’s not a big one. David Steckel is 6’5 (a legit 6’5, I’ve seen him in person) and his FO% is north of 60.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Aug 22, 2010 8:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed. I guess you could say that since Sid keeps a low center of gravity in the face off circle, he has an advantage, but really all about technique. Geno looks more upright in the circle than anything; whereas it looks like Sid leaning forward while in a chair.
Just a bit of difference (seems to be all it takes).
So when's October you ask? Well, here's your answer.
Yeah, Steckel and Boyd Gordon (who is even better than Steckel) get really low in the dot. Backstrom, on the other hand, stays kind of high.
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by red army line on Aug 23, 2010 4:33 AM EDT up reply actions
And coincidentally or not, Steckel and Gordon are much better at faceoffs.
I would subscribe that Malkin probably is too upright and his technique could be improved, but I don’t really think I’m in any position to offer tips or advice on hockey to him.
"Game's the same. Just got more fierce."
by Hooks Orpik on Aug 23, 2010 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions
As far as talent goes, neither is Dan Bylsma, but one hopes Malkin is listening to him. Well, you probably do, anyway.
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box
by Knee high to a duck on Aug 23, 2010 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
Talent wise sure, but no doubt Malkin respects Bylsma’s knowledge of the game and defers to him. I don’t think there’s any issue there.
Malkin’s faceoff game, to me, is like pointing out Cindy Crawford’s mole: there’s a lot more else to look at. (Not that you don’t know that, just saying). And now that Malkin’s presumably going to be playing a lot of wing this season, it’s even less important.
"Game's the same. Just got more fierce."
Why the universal hate for Geno?
I was just reading on a Canuck’s blog that footnoted “F—- you Geno”
I love him, he is my favorite player…I don’t see why everyone wants to go and crucify him!
He is still our #2 best player, don’t care what the stats say. All I hear when people start ragging is this
( Excuse the Russian commentary )
Every day is a great day for hockey!
Gino*
Every day is a great day for hockey!
by Slo-mo Malkin on Aug 22, 2010 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Why the universal hate for Sid/OV.
Sid got crucified last year when he “underperformed” (i.e. 103 pts).
When you’re a superstar, and you don’t perform well, everyone notices.
All that matters is that we know how good Geno is and that we know he’s coming back strong next year.
So when's October you ask? Well, here's your answer.
Canucks fans hate Geno because they feel he laid out a dirty ol’ hit on Willie Mitchell and cost the ’nucks the Cup.
by Hatt the Moople on Aug 22, 2010 8:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh yeah
forgot about that shit.
I don’t ever remember ever hearing about that until Mitchell came out and said he was pissed at the NHL for not suspending Malkin.
I guess none of the Pens sites really talked about it?
So when's October you ask? Well, here's your answer.
To clarify
I don’t ever remember ever hearing about that until Mitchell came out and said he was pissed at the NHL for not suspending Malkin.
Well, I saw it, but after the game I don’t remember any backlash.
So when's October you ask? Well, here's your answer.
I am glad they hate us because I don’t care for the Nuck’s either..except those green guys they are cool dudes
Every day is a great day for hockey!
by Slo-mo Malkin on Aug 22, 2010 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions
I can’t help but think of the time that the linesman dropped the puck and Geno was standing and looking in a completely different direction.
Yeah, I would say there’s room for improvement there.
Just trying the old look the other way fake out move. When it works, it’s gold. When it doesn’t…..well, you know.
.
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by PensAreYourDaddy on Aug 22, 2010 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Sid Got Better
Last summer, Crosby wanted to work on his face-offs and he got better. He spent alot of off season working on them, perfecting it, practicing, working his tail off.
He is gritty and wants to gain possession of the puck, first and foremost.
Perhaps Malkin needs to put more time in and practice on his style, positioning, ?
Malkin has the talent to do this he just needs to work a little harder.
Very nice to see how improved Staal is, for sure.
One Who Lives And Breathes All Things Penguins
by PensFanInDenver on Aug 22, 2010 7:05 PM EDT reply actions
Since he's moving to wing,
it doesn’t really matter, but I’m wondering why the coaching staff hasn’t said “hey, you need to work with us on this.”
Maybe they have, but it sure doesn’t seem like they have.
So when's October you ask? Well, here's your answer.
Moving to wing or not, Geno’s gonna have to get better at FOs anyway. The wing situation is unlikely to be permanent and even if it is, there will still be rare situations where Geno’s gonna have to take FOs anyway…
Maybe (and I’ll probably get Savarded for this) it’s a lack of grit & not hedging his body against the other center… Sid’s willing to claw out the puck in FOs, in corners, along the boards… If Geno can use that big body of his, he might have a bit of an advantage in the future FOs…
Is it October yet?
Just so I never have to answer this again. I'm from Singapore so whenever you see me online, I'm either sleep deprived or just waking up.
Maybe (and I’ll probably get Savarded for this) he just doesn’t know how to cheat the right way & not hedging his body against the other center…
Fixed it for ya.
So when's October you ask? Well, here's your answer.
Since he’s moving to wing, it doesn’t really matter,
I beg to differ. Playing the wing is no exemption for not getting better at face-offs. He’s a foward and centermen get thrown out of the circle all the time- he needs to get better period. And I believe he will.
Yes It Does Matter
I want our guys to prepare for and give it 110% every game, and that includes face-offs.
Of course, I also know that Malkin may not do as well on FO as I would like but if he is doing everything else well and scoring goals, I will not worry as much.
I prefer a Win even if it’s an ugly one.
One Who Lives And Breathes All Things Penguins
by PensFanInDenver on Aug 22, 2010 8:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Well,
the context of the comment was about Geno practicing taking face offs. Now that he’s at wing, do you think he’s going to practice taking them more than he did when he was at center? I think not.
So when's October you ask? Well, here's your answer.
Way to call out Geno there Copper and Blue...
Stick to what you know, that’s losing! Everybody already knows Geno isn’t very good at the draw. Anybody remember that draw agains the Canes in the Playoffs a few years back? He doesn’t have to win them all, just a few spectacular ones. Unless of course, they move Staalsy up there.
by Wags24 on Aug 22, 2010 8:28 PM EDT reply actions
Woah
calm down.
The article wasn’t specifically about how Geno sucks at the face offs, it was about how young players’ face off win percentage progresses from season to season.
So when's October you ask? Well, here's your answer.
Stick to what you know, that’s losing!
How arrogant our fanbase has become in four years.
by SlayerGhaleon on Aug 23, 2010 2:16 AM EDT up reply actions
yep it wasnt that long ago when everyone made fun of us for losing all the time. Honestly i love the pens and all but i personally think its silly to make fun of a team for losing cuz every team goes through it and i guarntee we will have to go through it again sometime(knock on wood). hopefully it wont be for another 20 years or so and it doesnt end up as bad as the last rebuilding we had
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