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North American Hockey

I was looking at the Pens roster today, and I noticed a lack of players born outside of North America. This roster doesn't just include those who will be in the line-up in October. It includes virtually anyone we could call up this year. Take a look....


I'll abbreviate below.

Star-divide

The players that were born outside of North America on the Pens roster include:

F - Craig Adams, born in Seria, BRN - though he was raised in Calagary, AB, so is more Canadian than anything.

F - Evgeni Malkin, born in Magnitogorsk, RUS

D - Zbynek Michalek, born in Jindrichuv Hradec, CZE

G - Mattias Modig, born in Lulea, SWE

 

And that's it. 4 players born outside of North America, and one of them was raised in Canada.

The rest of the roster includes 24 Canadians, and 17 Americans.

 

This past season we lost (or got rid of) Gonchar, Fedotenko, and Poni. The season before we let go of Sykora and Satan. Almost all of these players played a somewhat significan role with the team at one point or another (with the exceptions being Poni, who didn't play much of a role, and Gonchar, who played a very significant role).

Are North Americans more suited to play the hard forechecking game that the Pens employ?

Is Don Cherry right, are Europeans too "soft"?

Or is this simply a coincidence that we shouldn't look into very deeply?

What are your thoughts?

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I think that there is a selection bias (I think that’s what it’s called) when looking at Euro players in the NHL. I have a feeling that only the best Euros cross the pond, so pretty much all the Euros—especially Russian—are skill forwards, snipers, playmakers, danglers, not grinders (going with EA’s player types). I also have a feeling that skill forwards have a tougher time adapting to the playoffs than grinder types, but since most Euros are skill forwards, it looks like Euros are “soft” and playoff strugglers, whereas the amount of NA grinders dispels that illusion.

My blog and Twitter, featuring coverage of the winger that has now terrorized over 70 NHL goalies.

by red army line on Sep 1, 2010 11:28 PM EDT reply actions  

I think you pretty much hit the nail on the head.
Why bring a grinder over from Europe, with all the risk it entails, when there’s more than enough grinders to be had in North America?

While there are plenty of European grinders (in Europe), the European hockey game differs vastly from the North American. It’s considerably less physical due to larger ice surfaces and stricter reffing. This will naturally lead to a larger amount of the players focusing on skill aspects of the game, as opposed to physical or grinding aspects.

I also suspect the hockey “education” that prospects receive in Europe, is quite different from that in North America, although my knowledge of this is limited to Scandinavia. In Scandinavia, there is an extreme focus on defensive play, tactics and skating. There’s no way a talented prospect will be allowed to play on any sort of team that matters, until he’s learned his hockey ABC, no matter the skill.

This leads to Scandinavian prospects being solid skaters, responsible defensively and tactically sound, but sorely lacking size and grit.
Most of those players will never reach the size and grit of their North American counterparts, but, in all other aspects will be ready to step up almost immediately upon being drafted. The result? You end up with “soft” looking players, who might not be ideal for the playoffs, but who does everything else right.
This is all generalization of course. And Detroit has proven everyone wrong, more than once, on the matter of whether Europeans can succeed in the playoffs. I must say, though, that they’ve picked some of the grittiest Europeans out there (Holmstrom, Zetterberg, Kronwall), so it would seem there is a connection between grit and playoff success afterall.

But, the bottom line is, a team with the hockey philosophy of the Penguin, will naturally be more interested in tough North American grinders, than smooth skating, under-sized Europeans.

by Skyff on Sep 2, 2010 5:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think it’s a coincidence…The Pens would have wanted to sign Paul Martin if he was from Spain I don’t think that would have made any difference.

Sure they’ve let Europeans go, but I think it’s all performance related. It’s not exactly like Sykora, Satan or Ponikarovsky game them a reason to be re-signed.

And I don’t buy the “Euro = soft” thing. Fedotenko, when he was on his game, was one of the toughest and better forwards in the ‘09 Cup run from start to finish. Other than Kunitz he may have been the best forechecker on that team, it’s just that he lost his game for whatever reason and couldn’t maintain that high level. If he did, I’d have no doubt the team would have liked to retain him.

The Pens have had a huge North American bias in drafting lately, but league wide drafting of Czechs and Russians are down. I would hope they could do a little more scouting/drafting from places like Sweden and Finland, where good players are coming out of, but it’s a lot safer bet to draft a Canadian junior player or grab a young American who’ll develop for 3-4 years in college then you’ll have a much better picture of what you’re getting when it comes time to sign, rather than some 19-20 year old European that maybe a scout or two from your team has seen a few times.

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by Hooks Orpik on Sep 2, 2010 10:20 AM EDT reply actions  

What really confuses me is Russia. It has about 30-35 NHLers, and many of them seem to be elite at their games—Ovechkin, Kovalchuk, Markov, Zubov (for awhile), Nabokov (disputable, but he was a starter for one of the best teams), Fedorov, Slava Kozlov, Semin, Malkin, Gonchar, Volchenkov, and so on.

My blog and Twitter, featuring coverage of the winger that has now terrorized over 70 NHL goalies.

by red army line on Sep 2, 2010 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

sorry, I didn’t get what actually confuses you in that fact?

You have to see it for yourself...

by Bla Razor on Sep 2, 2010 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Probably the lack of lower-tier Russian talent in the NHL. Which can somewhat be explained with teams being leery of drafting or hiring Russians, but being willing to take a chance on top notch talent.

by Skyff on Sep 2, 2010 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

I see Swedes in a similar boat, and off the top of my head I can’t think of any Finnish forwards who weren’t top-9 on their teams. Germans obviously are a bit different, and when you have so many Czechs in the NHL then of course some get bumped down. I theorize though that many good Swedes just play at home in the SEL, many Finns in the SM Iliga or the SEL, and so forth. Those are pretty good leagues, too.

My blog and Twitter, featuring coverage of the winger that has now terrorized over 70 NHL goalies.

by red army line on Sep 2, 2010 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Germans have a very physical league and as such you’d expect more grinders. So, if you really want to draft a German, your options may be limited. Although, some of the latest prospects to come out of there seem quite talented, so I’ll probably wind up eating my own words in a year or two.

by Skyff on Sep 2, 2010 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Off the top of my head the only bona-fide German player in NHL history is Olaf Kolzig. There are also Hecht and Schubert from Germany.

Switzerland and Denmark have started getting better. The Swiss of course had that epic upset of Canada, an Olympic record shutout streak I think (or was that World Cup?) and Streit gives them their first stud player with Niderreiter possibly following up there. The Danes have young good players—can’t remember who exactly, but I was reading about them on Puck Worlds.

My blog and Twitter, featuring coverage of the winger that has now terrorized over 70 NHL goalies.

by red army line on Sep 2, 2010 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Danes currently playing in the NHL or ready to step up: Peter Regin (OTT), Frans Nielsen (NYI), Lars Eller (MTL), Jannik Hansen (VAN), Mikkel Boedker (PHX) and Philip Larsen (DAL).
This year the Hurricanes drafted a Danish goalie in Frederik Andersen and last year the Flyers (dammit) drafted a big Danish defenseman in Oliver Lauridsen
The elder statesman is Frans Nielsen at a positively ancient 26 years of age with 166 NHL games.
I can give you a run down of each player if interested, but I’m guessing not .

The Swiss and Germans are also improving at an impressive rate. It’s really good to see the increased competition in international tournaments.

by Skyff on Sep 2, 2010 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Probably the lack of lower-tier Russian talent in the NHL. Which can somewhat be explained with teams being leery of drafting or hiring Russians, but being willing to take a chance on top notch talent.

Those type of players can stay in Russia, in their own culture, speaking their own language and be guaranteed a higher salary. Especially for fringe players, an NHL team is going to want a two-way NHL/AHL contract, in case he’s possibly not ready for the small rinks and more physical play.

The player, understandably, isn’t going to be too encouraged to take that risk of potentially riding AHL buses making like $75k US, pre-tax. When they could be making a lot more in a lot more comfortable environment for then.

Plus, when it comes to a 3rd/4th liner, an NHL team would probably like a “meat and potatoes” Canadian/American grinder, rather than a player like Enver Lisin.

SB Nation PIttsburgh

"Game's the same. Just got more fierce."

by Hooks Orpik on Sep 7, 2010 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

Is this why Detroit always ices a competative team? They seem to have a knack for drafting incredibly skilled European players late in the draft. Do they do a lot more scouting in Europe than other teams do?

by The Malk-Man on Sep 3, 2010 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

It may very well be that they do more scouting, but more likely it’s that their European scout is one of the best available. Or maybe, they’re just not afraid of taking a chance on Europeans. Although, the risk is probably considerably less for them. There’s no Swede who doesn’t want to play with guys like Lidstrom and Zetterberg, and there’s no Russian who doesn’t want to play with Datsyuk. So they don’t have to worry about them not showing up after drafting them. And having those players also means you have someone to support the prospects coming in, reducing the risk of language, culture, etc. becoming a problem. Like Gonch did with Malkin.

by Skyff on Sep 3, 2010 5:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think it’s the Swedish scout they have, and when you combine that with their development strategies it works pretty well. Otherwise, their drafting is pretty average, I’d say.

My blog and Twitter, featuring coverage of the winger that has now terrorized over 70 NHL goalies.

by red army line on Sep 3, 2010 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

They seem to have a knack for drafting incredibly skilled European players late in the draft. Do they do a lot more scouting in Europe than other teams do?

Back in the day they used to. I believe Detroit was the only NHL team to have seen Lidstrom in person before he was drafted (and I think they were there to watch for another player) and I could be wrong but I think Datsyuk was another one way under the radar.

But nowadays there’s a lot more knowledge of scouting and with the internet obviously it’s a little easier too.

Still, I think Pittsburgh could do well to beef up their European scouting. Either they don’t put much stock in it or haven’t bothered checking, because almost all Shero’s draft picks have been guys that have/will play in North America.

SB Nation PIttsburgh

"Game's the same. Just got more fierce."

by Hooks Orpik on Sep 7, 2010 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

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