ESPN's Pierre Lebrun Hearts (and Harts) Kris Letang
by Hooks Orpik on Nov 16, 2011 3:00 PM EST
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PrintKris Letang appeared favorably in ESPN's Pierre Lebrun's look at early-season Norris contenders a few weeks back, and it's no different for Lebrun's front-runners for league MVP. Letang is ranked third, behind Philadelphia's Claude Giroux and Toronto's Phil Kessel. Quoth Lebrun:
Fifth in the NHL in ice time at 26:46 per game and putting up a point a game, we wonder where the Penguins would be without their all-world blue line, given Sidney Crosby’s absence and all the other injuries the Penguins have had. He plays in all key situations. He’s a horse and he’s a huge reason why the Pens keep rolling along.
Ok, everyone raise your hand if you had Giroux, Kessel and Letang as the top three candidates for league MVP six weeks ago before the season started. No hands, huh?
We'll see if Letang can keep up his play- if he continues to rack up points he'll continue to turn heads league wide. Last season KL58 started the season on a tear, scoring 41 points (9 goals, 34 assists) in the first 50 games before the all-star break with a plus/minus of +22. Then, as the Pens injuries mounted up, Letang only recorded 9 points (1g, 8a) and a -7 +/- in the team's last 32 games. Keep Evgeni Malkin and Sidney Crosby healthy and Letang will likely flourish.
As for the ice-time, that should gradually come down too. With injuries at varying times to Brooks Orpik and Zbynek Michalek this season, Dan Bylsma has had to lean a little harder on Letang than he would probably like. And while Letang has played over 29:00 four times this season, he ought to see his load lessened (hopefully) once the Pens are returned to health. Letang's got the conditioning and energy to play 25 minutes a night, but it's not a good idea in such a long season to put him out there 29-32 minutes, like Pittsburgh has had to do in some of their OT games.
Either way, some well deserved props for the Penguins young blueliner. But are they deserved? James Neal has come to life with 12 goals, 8 assists in 15 games. Marc-Andre Fleury has a sub 2.00 GAA (1.96), a .929 save percentage and a 10-2-1 record. Evgeni Malkin has returned from a knee injury and brought back his game-breaking ability. Jordan Staal has played at almost a point-per-game production rate as well as his stellar defensive and positioning game. Letang, while a standout, has had a lot of help.
After the jump, vote on your most valuable Penguin to this point.
Pierre LeBrun asks where the Pens would be without Kris Letang. But we know Pittsburgh's benefited from a lot more than Letang so far this season. Is he your early season MVP?
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Surprised at the numbers. Figures Flower would be comfortably out in front, though Neal has been quite large so I have not argument there. Your point is well made, Hooks, that it’s pretty hard to pinpoint any one or even two guys and say they should get the credit for the Pens’ success so far. Total team effort (minus Paul Martin, of course, that slouch. ;-)
by PensAreYourDaddy on Nov 16, 2011 3:32 PM EST reply actions
I think
Without any of those 4 guys the Pens wouldn’t have the record they currently do. Tanger has been a beast, Staalzie has been mr. shutdown on the PK, And Flower has been more than solid so far. I think the true standout though is Neal. May just be because no one knew whether he was a bust or a reliable player coming into this season, so we may all think a little too much of him even as good as he’s been doing. Geno has been a big part of the success too though. Honestly if it were an option, I’d pick “True team, effort”.
Plentiful, timely goals
get my MVP vote.
Neal.
by Zuhbeenick Mickhawlick on Nov 16, 2011 4:02 PM EST reply actions
I voted for Fleury. I still can’t believe he hasn’t allowed a powerplay goal against yet!
I might have voted for Malkin if he was on the list. He has been a threat in every game he has played, and he and Neal are working together very well.
Look at Lemieux! Oh my goodness! What a goal! What a move! Lemieux, Whooa Baby!
J Staal
has been the rock at C so far this season. Has produced on the score sheet, is our best PK guy, can win draws, is known as our shutdown center (5-on-5) play as well.
With Sid out and Malkin in and out of the lineup early on, Staal was the man at C. He gets my vote.
Thats what she said! - Michael Gary Scott
Unfair to put MAF into the equation. Taking him out my vote goes for Staal, for his multifaceted play this season. Not just defense , but also scoring and assists. Many at critical times. None of the other guys is doing that. Staalsy, the complete package.
On that note I wish Letang would improve his defensive game, (ie turnovers).
The Hockey Dr.
I really don’t think it’s unfair to consider a goalie. Obviously a goalie is the most important player on any team by default, but when considering a goalie in terms of most valuable player I feel you should compare him to a potential replacement and look at the difference. You should do the same with any position, really.
The Real Deal
Neal has got to be the team MVP so far and not just because of his goals scored, but because his speed and energy and chemistry with Geno really help push the Penguins offensive attack…love Tangeray, and I definitely think he’s got the early lead on the Norris trophy, but the biggest shift from last year to this year has been Neal’s play
Sidebar: Fleury is of course going to suffer an aneurism from standing on his head for so long, but goalies shouldn’t be considered for MVP IMHO….just like in baseball, pitchers shouldn’t be considered for MVP
I want to know, which we never will, is who, out of these four, is the most vocal in the locker room?
From what we saw on 24/7, Fleury most likely. I’d like to think Letang is vocal there too, but I can’t recall much from him on the show (then again, I am gettin’ old).
by Zuhbeenick Mickhawlick on Nov 16, 2011 6:29 PM EST up reply actions
Letang has been a mixed bag so far this year.
Lots of mental mistakes. I know he can play much better than he has been.
"This isn’t fantasy or rotisserie basketball. Why would Denver want Outlaw? Would you?" - Al Iannazzone
He’s been playing huge minutes in tough situations. Some mistakes will happen. But he’s made so many incredible plays, as well. Especially defensively. I’ve also been really impressed by his physical play.
My one beef with him would be his one time passes to Geno on the PP the last few games. He seems to think Geno is a righty.
I voted Fleury because he's been the most valuable to the Pens, this year.
That being said, Neal is far more worth of winning a league MVP at this point (obviously still behind Kessel and Giroux). Something just irks me about giving the league MVP to a defensmen or goalie. They have their own award, this should be for the forwards.
Geno is getting back to the level we’ve come to expect from him.
I’m not completely sure what to make of Letang’s performance. Obviously he’s played well defensively and is quietly putting up the points on the offense. But do I think he’s the reason the Pens are 11-4-3? No.
"It's a great day for hockey" - Badger Bob
I’m not completely sure what to make of Letang’s performance. Obviously he’s played well defensively and is quietly putting up the points on the offense. But do I think he’s the reason the Pens are 11-4-3? No
Your comments mirror strange’s above. I think you guys are harsh on Letang. He’s had some bad decisions in terms of positioning and with the puck at times, but a lot of times he’s quick enough skater to make up for it immediately.
Letang’s also playing significantly more minutes than any other player and shouldering more of a burden than Orpik or Martin these days. And against the best players the other team has, which obviously they’re going to make plays and make a defender look bad a time and again.
Is Letang the reason the Pens have an 11-4-3 record? No, hockey’s too much of a team sport and Neal has scored too many timely goals and Fleury has been consistently great almost every time out. To say nothing of the hard work (and production) guys like Staal, Kunitz, Dupuis and Cooke have chipped in so far.
But there’s no doubt that Letang’s been, by far, the driving force of the defense, allowing Bylsma to shelter all of Engelland, Niskanen, Lovejoy/Picard in games. To me, there’s no doubt Letang’s been the least replacable. You could make the argument for Neal, and it’d be a good one. But send a guy like Kunitz to wear Neal’s gotten his goals (in front of net) and he’d score some. Ask a Engelland/Niskanen to play more in Letang’s place and I think it’s much more likely the puck ends up in the wrong net more.
"You come at the King, you best not miss."
by Hooks Orpik on Nov 16, 2011 9:15 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Engelland and Niskanen have played very well this year, but that’s not to suggest they would be capable of replacing Letang.
But to me, your team is going to play as well as your goaltender most nights. I think Fluery’s play is much more closely related to the overall success than anybody else on the team. For me you could find a replacement for almost everyone else on the team. The 3 exceptions would be Letang, Neal and Malkin (hence the whole poll question). I just think any skater can be replaced easier because there are 4 other guys out there to help pick up the slack. The goalieis is on his own.
"It's a great day for hockey" - Badger Bob
by StripesForLife on Nov 17, 2011 12:22 AM EST up reply actions
His minutes alone are proof the coaches know that he is one of the best, if not the best skater on our team.
Hockey Blogger at Pensburgh.com
The forwards have three trophies, Rocket Richard, Art Ross and Selke. I think it would be unfair to exclude goalies and defencemen from the MVP votings.
Agreed. The most valuable player should be any player, no matter the position they play. However, determining how valuable each player is to a team needs to take into consideration their position, if that makes any sense. What I mean is, you can’t use point totals to compare forwards to defensemen and determine that since all(or most) of the forwards have more points than the defense, that they are more valuable. There is no metric to use to determine such a thing, which is why that award comes down to votes.
One thing to point out though is that, technically, the Rocket Richard and Art Ross could be won by a defenseman(Bobby Orr won the Art Ross twice), so you can’t say those are trophies just for forwards.
Apart from Mike Green that one year no defenseman has even come close since Coffey, as far as I’m aware.
As for determining most valuable player I try to compare players to a potential replacement playing the same position and style. I don’t have any set criteria for that replacement, but I guess you could use an average player of similar salary.
I don't know how well regarded Hockey-References Points Shares are, but...
According to this Neal is first on the team so far with 3.0, then Fleury with 2.9, Letang with 2.8 and Staal with 2.4. So that’s something,
I think Hockey Prospectus’ GVT might be better regarded among the hockey saber crowd, but one, I don’t actually know that much about hockey sabermetrics to know one way or another (I know way more about baseball stats) and two, Prospectus costs money and Reference is free.
I like you know nothing of sabremetrics of hockey. This Point Share thing is interesting, is it essentially saying that Fluery has earned us 2.9 points this year? or does it mean something else. I guess what Im trying to do is equate it to WAR in baseball.
Thats what she said! - Michael Gary Scott
Basically, although it's based on the somewhat outmoded Win Shares of Bill James rather than the more refined WAR variants
They have an article here about how point shares are calculated. In summary, point shares are meant to mean that a player has contributed that many point to their team so far, and the team total is supposed to come close to the actual number of points a team has. Right now the Pens have about 24 point shares, so it’s pretty close.
You can read the rest if you’re interested because it’s kind of hard to summarize other than scoring goals and limiting shots = good for skaters.
Letang's Minutes
I don’t see Letang’s minutes coming down this year.
As Hooks said,
But there’s no doubt that Letang’s been, by far, the driving force of the defense, allowing Bylsma to shelter all of Engelland, Niskanen, Lovejoy/Picard in games.
If that sounds like Letang is allowing Bylsma to shelter practically the entire D corps, that’s b/c he is. And b/c they require sheltering.
The odds that one of Orpik, Michalek, or Martin will be injured at some point are rather high.
Niskanen and Engelland have played better than expected, but you don’t want either of those guys regularly playing 20+ per night. Ditto Picard, Lovejoy, or (shudder) deeper into the corps.
B/L – The D Corps is too thin.
They could really use one more quality #4 type.
I think Engelland is playing his way into a competant top 4 guy. Right now he’s filling in for Michalek, but he’s getting 18-20 on most nights and has held his own. I think Letang’s minutes will come down once everyone get healthy, if for nothing else, to rest him a bit for the playoffs.
"It's a great day for hockey" - Badger Bob
by StripesForLife on Nov 17, 2011 9:26 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
B/L – The D Corps is too thin.
They could really use one more quality #4 type.
I disagree. Thyey have 4 solid top 4 guys. In a salary cap era, you can’t have more than that.
"You come at the King, you best not miss."
by Hooks Orpik on Nov 17, 2011 10:10 AM EST up reply actions
In a salary cap era, you can’t have more than that.
Ray Shero is not constrained by the things that plague lesser GMs
But seriously, I realize it is tough
Just don’t think it is impossible
The thought of rolling out Lovejoy, Engo, Nisky, and Picard vs. a quality playoff team…not appealing.
If the Top 4 stay healthy, great, but w/ the way the Pens’ luck has been, it’d be nice to have a higher quality backup to the Big 4
While you guys are on the topic of salary cap,
Was Crosby (and Michalek for that matter) put on LTIR to save cap like they did last year? I never understood all the technicalities of the CBA, but from what I gather it is calculated on a day-to-day basis. By my rough calculations the Pens could have potential saved $400k ($8.7 mil/19 games) to date from Crosby. Just curious if anybody knew, because every little bit helps a team who is already near the cap.
"It's a great day for hockey" - Badger Bob
by StripesForLife on Nov 18, 2011 1:20 AM EST up reply actions
It doesn’t save cap, it allows the team to exceed the cap by their salary, but they still count against the cap. In fact putting a player on IR and calling up a replacement will actually reduce your overall cap space. And yes the cap is calculated day by day, with the Pens “banking” the amount left over towards the cap after they pay salaries.
I’ll give you an example :
Say the Pens would have had $500k cap space by the end of the year. They put Crosby on IR for the first 1/4th of the season and replace him with someone earning $1mil who is demoted to WBS after Crosby is back. While the replacement is on the roster the Pens will exceed the cap by $500k, leaving no cap space left to “bank” for later in the season. This means for 1/4th of the season the Pens will not have banked any cap, but for the remaining 3/4th of the season they still would (assuming no further call ups), so by the end of the season they would have banked $375k.
If this happens in the middle of the season, the amount the Pens exceed the cap would be withdrawn from their banked cap space, as well. So if this would happen in the second quarter, the daily portion of the $500k they exceed the cap with would be removed every day, so instead of having $375k by the end of the season, they would instead have only $250k.
I voted Neal on form up until now
I have been a mostly outside observer here since May, and this is my first season really watching and following the team (been a casual fan for a while), there were only moderate expectations of what Neal would do this season. I know a lot of people here were expecting Neal to be somewhere around 50 points by the end of the season (his best season being 55 in the NHL). Right now he is at about half that point total only a quarter of the way through the season. I mean he’s #2 in goals scored so far as well.
This might just be him over performing, but I think it’s more that he has stepped up to the challenge of playing on this team. The vote now means nothing as to what will happen for the rest of the season (he points pace may start dwindling), but right now he is scoring crucial goals in the absence of Crosby and as Malkin was coming back early in the year. Without him performing the way he is right now, I doubt the team would be doing as well.
Well I for one expected him to score 30-35 goals and about twice that in points. Not everyone was fooled by his slumping play last season, he was doing all the right things the puck just wasn’t going in.
That said he’s on pace for 66 goals, which is definitely not something I’d expected. But we need to keep in mind Neal has a history of strong months of October, so this likely won’t continue. He should continue to be a solid goal scorer for us, though.
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