Pensburgh editors select NHL end of season awards
by Hooks Orpik on Jun 22, 2011 9:55 AM EDT
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PrintMonday is an off-day for the Pittsburgh Penguins, so while they rest before diving into preparing for the Tampa Bay LIghtning, the round-table of Pensburgh editors sat down to pick awards league wide. Well, actually everyone just emailed me, and presumably there was no conversation between us to not influence anything.
The results, were quite wild. There were 3 different MVPs, 3 different defensemen of the year and 3 different rookies of the year. In fact, no category was a unanimous decision for the selectors. Tell us how we did (and make your selections) in the comments. It's gonna be all over the place.
| Hart | Vezina | Selke | Norris | Calder | Adams | Byng | a | |
| Frank | Daniel Sedin | Tim Thomas | Jordan Staal (!?!) | Lubomir Visnovsky | Jeff Skinner | Dan Bylsma | Martin St. Louis | |
| Hooks | D. Sedin | Pekka Rinne | Manny Malhotra | Nicklas Lidstrom | Skinner | Bylsma | St. Louis | |
| GoPens | Corey Perry | Thomas | Ryan Kesler | Dustin Byfuglien | Logan Couture | Bylsma | Loui Eriksson | |
| Justin | Steven Stamkos | Thomas | Anze Kopitar | Lidstrom | Corey Crawford | Randy Carlysle | Eriksson |
Hart:
GP: "I'm going to assume that goalies are out of the picture here because they have the Vezina, and Crosby can't win it because he only played half of the season. So my pick is Corey Perry. He put up comparable offensive numbers to Daniel Sedin but did it against much more difficult competition. The Sedins are very talented, but they get the benefit of easy circumstances in Vancouver."
Hooks: "I'm gonna go Daniel Sedin. Yeah he's a got a great situation in Vancouver, but he was also the best statistical player on the best regular season team in the league and set career highs in goals, assists, points and plus/minus. D. Sedin lead the league in points and was the most productive player in the league at even strength and on the power play. With no clear MVP front runner, that's good enough for my vote."
Justin: "Out of all the skaters on playoff teams, [Stamkos] had the biggest percentage of his team's offensive and defensive output."
Vezina:
Frank for Tim Thomas: "I'd love to say Marc-Andre Fleury, but Tim Thomas' numbers don't lie. And while I'm fully aware that the Vezina is awarded for regular-season efforts, I am curious to see how he pans out in the playoffs this year."
GP again for Thomas: "He had the best save percentage in the league by far this year, and he set an NHL record in the process. This is a big no-brainer."
Justin piles it on for Thomas: "I don't know how you can give this to anyone but Tim Thomas. A .939 SV% is a new NHL record and I can't just ignore that."
Hooks dissents and chooses Pekka Rinne: "He played more games than Tim Thomas, and in front of a lesser team, which put more pressure on him to hold the fort. I couldn't vote for Fleury, his first six weeks put his season numbers behind other front-runners, despite Fleury's stellar play lately. Rinne has the gaudy numbers for save percentage and goals against, and without him, Nashville wouldn't have stood a chance."
Selke
Frank about if he was serious on picking Jordan Staal- "Come on already. I'm sure this is where someone busts out some kind of stat showing me that there is another viable and/or better candidate, but I don't want to believe it."
Hooks- "A bit of an off-the-board selection, but Malhotra ranks among the leaders for forwards in SH time per game (2:45) and his faceoff numbers (61.7%) was 2nd league wide among regular centers. I fully admit this is a little sentimental for his gruesome eye injury, but even then, Malhotra is a glue heart and soul player and worthy of the consideration."
GP on Kesler- "He's doing a great job being the guy behind the Sedins."
Justin- "We all know who's going to end up with this award, so I'm going to go off the beaten path and pick Anze Kopitar. Kopitar's +18.0 relative to his team outdoes Ryan Kesler's +10.2 and gets less attention for his trouble."
Norris
GP regarding Big Buff- "He's Atlanta's possession d-man and he does it against pretty strong competition and not a lot of help."
Hooks for Lidstrom- "It's like he doesn't age. He's the smartest player in the league, and even at the age of 40 he's still a dominant force that plays all situations with ease, making impeccable decisions and play. He is Mr. Norris trophy."
Justin agrees with the Lidstrom pick- "For once, Nicklas Lidstrom's Norris Trophy will be deserved and not simply based on reputation alone. One doesn't even need the "for a guy his age" qualifier when talking about how well he did this year."
Frank for Viz Nasty- "And not just because he was the lone bright spot on an otherwise dismal fantasy hockey team. Visnovsky picked up 18 of his 68 points in March alone, including a hat trick and a streak where he scored six points in four games. Factor in his ability to finish as a +18 on a team that was 11th worst in goals allowed per game (2.84) and allowed the fourth most shots (32.3), and it seems like it's a done deal."
Calder
Frank/Hooks pick Skinner- "Not to knock Skinner's 63 points in 82 games or anything, but if Taylor Hall doesn't get injured then the vote is much closer." -- Frank
"At just 18 years old, he lead all rookies in scoring. Plus his impact to his team was greater than the other candidates. Very impressive class this year, but Skinner gets the nod for his production, role and the excitement he delivered consistently all season long." -- Hooks
GP picked Couture, because "he's played a ton of minutes for a rookie and has been dominant in possession while he's on the ice. He's gonna be a big part of San Jose in the future."
Justin acknowledges a sleeper pick: "Corey Crawford should be a shoe-in here, and he'll get my vote. He went 25-12-3 with 3 shutouts, a .920 SV%, and a 2.17 GAA. However, because he's a goalie, he won't get many first place votes."
Jack Adams
A Bylsma sweep. Well almost. So why should the Pens coach win it?
"The Penguins finished the regular season tied for third in the league in points. With no Staal the first half of the season, no Crosby the second half and a brief cameo by Malkin in between. Even better, Bylsma perfectly handed Fleury through his abysmal start and got him and the defense on track. All the while incorporating all sorts of forwards to replace all the injuries with a calm demeanor and perfect system." --Hooks
Frank echoed that sentiment, "he kept this ragged group of young, injured and disjointed players together through the best and the worst of the season's trials and tribulations."
GP also concurred, "no other team finishes fourth in league standings when they lose their top two guns and suffer the other swath of injuries the Penguins had this year. But with Danny B at the helm, they weathered the storm and almost won the division in the process. This is another no-brainer."
Justin, ruins the sweep though saying "Randy Carlisle took an Anaheim team that wasn't supposed to do anything this year and landed them in the #4 seed in the West. That's usually a good sign for winning this award."
Lady Byng
Frank threw some humor in the sportsmanship award when he selected "Trevor Gill...er, Martin St. Louis. I don't know, I never really know who to vote for when it comes to this trophy, so I'll just make up for not giving Marty the Hart nod above."
Hooks also threw his hat in St. Louis' corner, "99 points, only 12 penalty minutes. And only one of them was of the aggressive variety (a slashing minor). Zero calls for roughing or cross-checking in all 82 games, as a top line player facing intense competition every night."
GP thought outside of the box and suggested Dallas' Loui Eriksson. " In 78 games this year, he's only got four minor penalties, and he's a pretty talented player."
Justin was on the same wavelength regarding Eriksson. "High standard of play plus sportsmanlike behavior? It's not easy coming up with that, but Loui Eriksson's 8 PIM and 73 points is about as close a combination as you can get."
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Here's to Jeff Skinner...
As a Pens fan in Raleigh, I got to watch a lot of that kid this year. He’s something special. The way he skates and moves around the ice, looks a lot like a number 87 we all know. This kid is going to be a lot of fun to watch. I hope he comes away with some hardware.
Not a lot of love for Tanger there eh? I hope Lidstrom gets it, just in case he decides to retire. Let’s hope he doesn’t and sticks it out for another year or two.
by LightningCoach on Apr 11, 2011 1:08 PM EDT reply actions
Letang sort of fizzled down the stretch, especially his production. (I.e. just 3 goals in last 48 games). To win the Norris you have to put up the offensive numbers and I just don’t think he did enough once Crosby got hurt to pick up a lot of steam for his candidacy.
"Game's the same. Just got more fierce."
I live down here too, all my firends down here keep saying Crosby who? I just laugh, he’s good but c’mon…
Exactly.
Skinner has a lot of potential and he can be that guy (not the Crosby guy) for the Canes. He’s just fun to watch. Energy, skill, all that jazz. When people say that to me, all I mention is that Sid broke the 100pt barrier his rookie year…then they get it!
by LightningCoach on Apr 11, 2011 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions
SKINNER <3
Certified Grabbo lover. GET WELL SOON, SID
The universe moves depending on where Sidney Crosby is on the ice - IHeartPenguins
"I'm glad we've got the best fans in the league." - Tomas Kaberle on Leaf fans
Haha!
There’s a lot of that going on around here. At just about every Canes game, it’s easy to count the many teenage girls around the glass during warmups asking him to Prom.
by LightningCoach on Apr 12, 2011 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Agree on Skinner
And Justin, Lidstrom’s trophies haven’t been on rep alone. He’s been this ridiculously, and consistently good the whole decade. Really going to miss having that rock on the D-line when he finally hangs it up.
Can the Red Wings make it 5 in 15 years? Here's hoping!
GP regarding Big Buff- “He’s Atlanta’s possession d-man and he does it against pretty strong competition and not a lot of help.”
Which metrics are you using? I’m seeing 2nd toughs and 1st line help with helpful zone starts. Obviously, his Corsi is great, but then Lubo if you ask me is a better pick. And John Carlson had more ESP than Buff!!!
…speaking of whom, no Carlson for Calder?
For the Selke, I’d like to see Callahan win it. He’s matched really aggressively against top lines, and while he has some help from Dubinsky, Anisimov, Staal, and Girardi…can’t get around his league-highest QoC. Kesler is a good pick too, right up there, but worth noting he hadn’t been playing 1st toughs, mostly 2nd toughs instead.
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"Numbers don't lie, they just don't agree with you"--George E. Ays
If I reference a lot of stats, just assume I haven't seen anything to contradict or invalidate them.
re: Kesler, I’d assume Malhotra plays the 1st toughs then? And if so, that doesn’t say much about the Sedin’s. I disagreed with Henrik winning last year and I don’t think brother Daniel should win it this year just based on my view that you can’t be the most valuable player in the league, when you have an identical brother that’s just as good and ridiculously good players doing all the dirty work on the other lines. Yes there’s the points argument….but isn’t that what the Art Ross trophy represents.
Yeah, the Sedins used to play some moderately hard minutes, but when they got promoted to top offensive line and Kesler came around, aggressively given the easy stuff, with the highest zonestart ratio in the league (70%). Malhotra is 25%, which I think is dead last.
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"Numbers don't lie, they just don't agree with you"--George E. Ays
If I reference a lot of stats, just assume I haven't seen anything to contradict or invalidate them.
by red army line on Apr 11, 2011 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions
…speaking of whom, no Carlson for Calder?
Nah. He’ll likely be a better player than most that end up ahead of him in the voting, but I think guys like Couture, Skinner, Grabner and even Crawford were bigger parts of their team.
If Carlson could have done better on the PP, especially when Mike Green was out and he got to play on the Caps top unit a lot, then he might have a case. But, compared to 30+ goal scorers, Carlson suffers in this race.
"Game's the same. Just got more fierce."
I agree Carlson won’t get the Calder, but you lost me on the “bigger roles” argument. Carlson was the top pair D for most of the season. How many bigger roles are there than that? Maybe Crawford, but Skinner and Couture and Grabner weren’t even top line players, and at times weren’t even second line. Couture got to hide behind, or play with, HTML, Pavelski and Clowe. Skinner was behind Staal and whatever other hacks helped them not make the playoffs. (Carlson also didn’t get much of a shot on the PP, so you can’t blame too much of it on him).
Going by numbers, Carlson is toast. Going by role on the team? He’s an easy finalist.
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...
Don’t you think that would make Sinner that much more special of a player if he played with “hacks” and got 31 goals at 18 years of age? I’m not arguing for or against anybody here. I’m just saying. He played the PP, ES, I don’t think I saw him on the PK but he was out on the ice when they needed goals at the end of the game. Did you watch the Canes more than a few games? Just curious.
by LightningCoach on Apr 11, 2011 8:53 PM EDT up reply actions
great point. 31 goals on a non-playoff team and WITHOUT playing w/ Staal (most of the time). Skinner >>>>> Carlson
Do you know who Carlson was playing with? Sure as hell not Ovechkin.
Did you watch the Canes more than a few games? Just curious.
Come on, that’s weak. And our team played Carolina 6 times.
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"Numbers don't lie, they just don't agree with you"--George E. Ays
If I reference a lot of stats, just assume I haven't seen anything to contradict or invalidate them.
by red army line on Apr 12, 2011 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions
That's not weak...
6 games doesn’t mean a thing. I could watch the best kid in the world play six games a season, say he has a bad week or just plays awful against that team…doesn’t mean much. I didn’t mean much by it, really. I was just curious. Really though, it’s hard to develop a solid, educated opinion on someone if you don’t watch them play. Argue that all you want, it won’t mean a thing. Sorry Dude…
by LightningCoach on Apr 12, 2011 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Carlson has very good QTEAM and Corsi QoT numbers. They are much better than Skinner’s.
Hockey Blogger at Pensburgh.com
Doesn't mean much to me. Numbers make me dizzy.
With that being said, I wasn’t comparing players.
Just thought this…
Skinner was behind Staal and whatever other hacks helped them not make the playoffs.
…was a tad over the top.
by LightningCoach on Apr 12, 2011 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions
And intentionally so. Glad you’re calibrated correctly. Canes suck, I won’t apologize for it.
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Nothing wrong with that.
I certainly wasn’t asking you to apologize. I am sure that many share that same opinion about your beloved Caps. Personally, I just don’t really care. Who sucks? Who doesn’t suck? It’s all relative. Me, really though, I just don’t care.
by LightningCoach on Apr 12, 2011 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions
The Caps aren’t a great possession team, but Carolina is pretty bad. Corsi QoT won’t give you a good picture. Edmonton’s top forward by Corsi QoT is 5 worse than Washington’s bottom forward.
On QTeam, I can’t really say much. Just maybe add that by Corsi Rel QoT Skinner is the 3rd Canes forward, Carlson the Caps’ 3rd D, and the numbers, while still favoring Carlson, are closer.
My blog and Twitter, featuring coverage of the most frustrating team in the NHL
If you don't know how to use Timeonice, read this.
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"Numbers don't lie, they just don't agree with you"--George E. Ays
If I reference a lot of stats, just assume I haven't seen anything to contradict or invalidate them.
by red army line on Apr 12, 2011 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions
What I said were the other rookies were bigger parts on the team, and you make my argument by admitting by the numbers he’s toast. You were the one that used the word "roles"
—Couture was a key cog for SJ’s 2nd line and gave them a ton of energy (and production). Couture ranked second on a very good offensive team in goals. You say he "hided behind" people, but he also filled the net.
—Grabner lead the Isles in goals.
—Skinner second on his team in goals and points.
—Corey Crawford came on to be a starting goalie and piled up the wins.
Those are bigger parts of their team than Carlson, who I dispute played top unit minutes for "most the season" like you said. I highly doubt he played more minutes than Green who still played 49 of the 82 games. Carlson was no doubt a top 4 guy, but he wasn’t as productive as some other rookies and therefore I would not vote for him for the Calder. Sassified?
"Game's the same. Just got more fierce."
by Hooks Orpik on Apr 11, 2011 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions
“Parts” versus “roles.” What’s the difference? Basically let’s boil it down to this: Carlson was the top pair D on the Caps. How many positions on a team are more important than a top pair D? Maybe 1G and maybe the Fs on the first line. None of the other rookies except Crawford satisfy that, so Carlson was the most important part of the team.
Carlson and Alzner took the top pair role early in November, gave it up for about two weeks in January, and then got it back for the rest of the season. Green had higher minutes because of the PP, but at ES the rookies were the guys that got all the hard minutes.
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For example, I say Couture had a huge part on his team because he contributed the second most goals on his club and provided a huge shot in the arm. Couture contributed a sizable part of his team’s success in a measurable way and clearly flashy scorers stand out from steady D in award season.
Carlson did have a huge part of eating minutes, but as you admitted he had a rough patch in the middle of the season and also struggled at times to produce points. Especially on a power play unit that struggled this year, a unit I would argue he was a big part of in the second half of the season when Green missed a lot of time.
For those reasons, I think other guys had more impressive and consistent rookie seasons. You might attribute Carlson to be a “top D”, but I don’t think that’s viable. In my opinion, Carlson doesn’t stands out from Green/Hannan/Wideman in terms of usage just like Skinner with Staal or Couture with Marleau/JJ, etc. All of those rookies were counted on, but they also all had supporting casts. Other than personal biases not sure how else you take a differing opinion.
"Game's the same. Just got more fierce."
by Hooks Orpik on Apr 12, 2011 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions
The rough patch was maybe two weeks, don’t act like none of the other guys had slumps like that. Carlson had the second most ESTOI of any Caps regular D (behind Green, and he slaughtered Green in the QComp stats). He had the second most PKTOI, behind Hannan. He had the third most PPTOI among D, but as we all know that’s misleading because AO takes the full 2 minutes on one point position. So that means Carlson is on the PP2 unit with a tired AO and the scrubs (for like :20 at a time). Lately BB has even been going with Arnott on the point and 5 forwards on the ice. Carlson simply isn’t getting enough PPTOI to use that as a condemnation.
He never was on PP1 for any period of time, even when Green was down. Maybe you can blame that on him, but really BB just hasn’t seemed to want to use him much on the PP. The struggles on the PP are on the other guys, not Carlson (or, if you’re a stats boy, the struggles on the PP were all luck. That’s emotionally satisfying as a Caps fan, but I call BS).
It’s not personal bias. I’ve said all along Carlson shouldn’t and won’t win it. I’m just saying that in almost every other team in the league, the D pair that plays the tough minutes is considered more important than a second line forward. I don’t see how other than personal biases you would take a differing opinion.
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by Rob Parker on Apr 12, 2011 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
So that means Carlson is on the PP2 unit with a tired AO and the scrubs (for like :20 at a time).
Unless he’s playing the final :20 seconds and the Caps are getting 11 power plays a night, your math doesn’t quite add up to the 2:18 per night Carlson played on the PP.
He never was on PP1 for any period of time, even when Green was down.
We must have been watching different things. I noticed him taking plenty of shifts with the top unit in Green’s absence. Could have been just my eyes, I didn’t watch all game every game, but Carlson got 2:18 PP/game, that’s not just 20 seconds at the end, especially when they had to fill in for Green and hadn’t yet traded for Wideman or Arnott.
the D pair that plays the tough minutes is considered more important than a second line forward.
I don’t disagree, but I still don’t think Carlson’s going to be on the #1 d pair. It’s going to be Green/Hannan, right? Carlson had a huge role with the Caps, but was he more important that a rookie that led their team in goals? Or finished 2nd on their team in goals? Or won a shitload of games as a rookie?
I’m gonna say no. Other rookies had better seasons and you even admit that, so I’m not sure what more there is to say on this.
"Game's the same. Just got more fierce."
I’ll just bet I’ve watched a bit more Caps, a bit more closely than you did this year. Not much else to say. He got scrap PP time, bottom line. He had very short stints where he got more minutes, but for the vast majority of the season he was on either PP2 or not at all.
especially when they had to fill in for Green and hadn’t yet traded for Wideman or Arnott.
You mean that one game against the Islanders? Green missed a few games after the Pens game, came back, and was hurt against the Rags on Feb. 25. Caps played one game before getting Wideman and Arnott, who immediately joined PP1.
Green/Hannan never played much together. So you can second guess BB all you want, imply what you would do, and then say he’s not the top pair, but that’s not reality. Alzner and Carlson took the opposition’s top line on for 80% of the season. That’s the top pair no matter how you try to convolute it.
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I don’t know what your point or purpose is driving to. You initially disputed that I said other rookies had bigger parts than Carlson. I stand by that.
Couture played in all situations (PP, ES, PK) and finished second on his team in goals with 32, lead the team in game winners with 8, led the team in +/-. To me, I’d say that’s a bigger part of his team than what Carlson contributed. Carlson doubtlessly played tougher minutes and played well, but it’s clear that Couture produced more which helps to stand out more for awards like this. In your opinion maybe Carlson was more important, I don’t share that look.
Skinner was the #2, at absolute lowest #3, most important skater on his team. Was Carlson the same? I’d say no. Thus, to me, Skinner had a bigger part of his team and his accomplishments I give more weight to as an 18 year old true rookie compared to a guy who played 22 NHL reg season games (and 7 playoff games) last year. Is that viable long term? No. Does it influence opinion for Calder, thus making it relevant for this? Yes.
You’ve even said that Carlson doesn’t deserve the award, so I don’t see what trying to pick apart aspects of my opinions will do, or to what greater purpose that solved, rather than to continue arguing.
"Game's the same. Just got more fierce."
My only point is that the D who your coach puts out against Sidney Crosby is more important than anyone on your second line.
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and..
off the top of my head…
Kesler, Hossa, Selanne, Heatley, Semin
and team Captains: Lecavalier, Gionta, DBrown, Morrow, MRichards
All “2nd line scrubs”
Who said scrubs? I just said that whoever your coach picks as your top D pair is more important than your second line. I stand by it. Don’t pervert my argument.
When Crosby’s healthy, yeah, I think the D pair you send out against Stamkos is more valuable than Staal. Malkin is a little bit of a harder case because he’s elite and on a second line, but I stand by my team-building philosophy. If I had to pick a season ending injury for my top D man or anyone on my second line, I’ll say goodbye to my second line.
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Byfuglien is by far ATL’s best possession d-man, and he’s playing first line minutes against tough competition. His zone starts are up there, but at the very least then those cancel out his comp numbers. He’s still a great Corsi defensemen who is putting up big points.
Carlson is a great rookie, and for me it was like splitting hairs between him and Couture. Rest assured, I think Carlson is going to be a baller in the future, and the Caps are very lucky to have him.
Hockey Blogger at Pensburgh.com
I have a problem with Byfuglien for this award because he doesn’t play much on the PK. (Have the same gripe for Visnovsky).
In my world, the Norris goes to a guy who can be the best player on the ice in any and every situation. Big Buff doesn’t fit the mold that guys like Lidstrom and Weber do.
"Game's the same. Just got more fierce."
I think that’s a fair gripe, though there were 52 defensemen who played more PK time per game than Lidstrom this year. Overall, I don’t think that’d enough to take away from what Byfuglien did, especially since games in the long run are driven at ES, and not while a team is on the PK.
Hockey Blogger at Pensburgh.com
52 defensemen with more PK time than Lidstrom still means Lidstrom was on the first pair. DET had the 4th fewest PIM in the league this year. Maybe that has something to do with Lidstrom’s PKTOI total.
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Stuart and Kronwall were first pairing for DET, but Lidstrom did play 2nd pair minutes. I think Lidstrom’s performance in the possession department did him in relative to the some of the other guys.
Hockey Blogger at Pensburgh.com
Wouldn’t Lidstrom do terrible without Rafalski or Stuart or Datsyuk or Zetterberg or Franzen or Holmstromm? OF COURSE! He’s no different than any other player, and there’s no way that Byfuglien is anything less than very talented if he can maintain a Corsi that high while being on the ice for so many minutes each game.
Hockey Blogger at Pensburgh.com
Looks at his QTEAM numbers the last four or five years. They’re off the charts. If you think he’d be just as good playing with the 3rd pairing guy and the fourth line of the Oilers, you are kidding yourself. Hockey doesn’t work like that. He’s gotten an immense amount of help from some of the most talented players in the league. They make him look better.
Hockey Blogger at Pensburgh.com
I would love to do that, but I’m afraid I don’t understand them. Is negative good in this case? (and is it based on +/-)
IMO the difference between Byfuglien and Lidstrom is, Byfuglien was in good form this year, while Lidstrom is and has proven to be in a different class. Of the two form is temporary.
They are based on an adjusted form of +/-. Negative means weaker teammates. What’s even more instructive is that Lidstrom’s Corsi QoT numbers indicate he’s been playing with phenomenal teammates for much of the last five years.
As to the difference this year, that is all that matters. We’re not awarding the Norris for the best play over the last five years.
Hockey Blogger at Pensburgh.com
And by the same token his awesome teammates are pushing his numbers down, while Buff’s push his up.
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I don’t get what your point. Are you saying the all star teammates Lidstrom is playing with don;t make him look better?
Hockey Blogger at Pensburgh.com
I’m saying that it cuts both ways. Corsi Off is part of the Corsi Rel stat. He has no control over that, and when you have great teammates playing the Corsi Off minutes then it’s harder to have really high Corsi Rel. If you have poor teammates, who get slaughtered when you aren’t on the ice, your Corsi Rel goes up.
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I’m looking at Corsi ON when I talk about possession stats. I try to avoid Corsi Rel since I realized that a while ago. As long as you take zone start, comp, and team numbers into account, that’s a very reliable stat.
Hockey Blogger at Pensburgh.com
…then you run into huge with team quality, though, right?
My blog and Twitter, featuring coverage of the most frustrating team in the NHL
If you don't know how to use Timeonice, read this.
Behindthenet quick link to QoC/QoT/Corsi/PDO/Zonestarts
"Numbers don't lie, they just don't agree with you"--George E. Ays
If I reference a lot of stats, just assume I haven't seen anything to contradict or invalidate them.
by red army line on Apr 12, 2011 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions
No, not if you temper Corsi ON with zone starts, QCOMP and QTEAM. QTEAM is all you need to evaluate how much help a player is getting on the ice.
Hockey Blogger at Pensburgh.com
Umm…come on, you know that’s not true. It doesn’t make sense to me to mix stats based on relative numbers (QComp and QTeam on RATING) and absolute stats (Corsi On). Maybe then Corsi QoC and Corsi QoT work instead of QT and QC, but sometimes Corsi QoC and Corsi Rel QoC tell opposite stories (see Carlson last year).
And on top of that, the small sample size of QoT means good players playing together will inflate all their numbers.
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"Numbers don't lie, they just don't agree with you"--George E. Ays
If I reference a lot of stats, just assume I haven't seen anything to contradict or invalidate them.
by red army line on Apr 12, 2011 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions
First, I only look at Corsi QoC and QoT, so I’m not mixing things even though it seemed like it from what I wrote. And it is very true that Corsi ON is an incredibly useful and predictive stat when tempered with comp, team, and zone start numbers. There’s no getting around that. As to whether or not Corsi QoC and Corsi Rel tell different stories, they can be used together.
QoT isn’t as good due to sample sizes, but they’re a much better proxy for teammates than simply saying Carlson has better teammates than Skinner.
You know these numbers aren’t perfect, and you know I know that as well. But we’re doing a decent job trying to make sense of all of this, and it’s a close case when it comes to Couture and Carlson.
Hockey Blogger at Pensburgh.com
Well, Lidstrom was paired with Rafalski for years and then they split them this year and he played with Brad Stuart. And yet he’s still in the Norris discussion. So, no, his numbers didn’t tank like Buff’s without Enstrom.
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Throw the stats together on how Buff was before and after, including situational metrics and all. In addition, you’re still avoiding the general point, which was that Lidstrom’s awesome teammates buoy his numbers quite a bit. Whether he is with Stuart or Rafalski (both very good d-men) doesn’t adjust the fact that the forward group he is constantly with is some of the best in the league.
Hockey Blogger at Pensburgh.com
Cuts both ways. QoT, because of the limited amount of guys any given player with play with (as opposed to against, of which there are hundreds), is heavily influenced by the guy you’re looking at. Lidstrom surely must be inflating his teammates’ Corsis, which in turn inflate his QoT.
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"Numbers don't lie, they just don't agree with you"--George E. Ays
If I reference a lot of stats, just assume I haven't seen anything to contradict or invalidate them.
by red army line on Apr 12, 2011 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions
This is true, but they are inflating his numbers as well. Overall, we’re not going to get anywhere because our stats are too elementary to know anything for sure in this department. What we can do is realize that Z, Datsyuk, Rafalski, and Franzen (among others) are some of the best hockey players in the world, and they surely are inflating Lidstrom’s numbers quite a bit while he’s on the ice. He’s obviously very talented, but let’s not pretend he’s working with the Florida Panthers here.
Hockey Blogger at Pensburgh.com
Overall, we’re not going to get anywhere because our stats are too elementary to know anything for sure in this department.
Man, I can’t stop laughing finally reading this from you.
First Round Exit! (Clap Clap ClapClapClap) First Round Exit!
Everyone will tell you that QoT stats are too underdeveloped to prove anything for sure. That doesn’t mean stats in general are useless, and it doesn’t mean that the awesome predictive power of Corsi and Fenwick suddenly went out the window. I was being honest, and acknowledging the limitations of teammate calculations. Not sure what the problem is or how this is funny.
Hockey Blogger at Pensburgh.com
If you have to explain the funny, it loses the luster.
"Game's the same. Just got more fierce."
by Hooks Orpik on Apr 12, 2011 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
with Frank on the 1st 3, then with GoPens! on the rest
Corey Perry
Tim Thomas
Ryan Kesler
Lubomir Visnovsky
Jeff Skinner (close b/w Corey Crawford — both are deserving, but Skinner is off the charts)
Disco Dan
then…who cares (for Byng)?
My Picks:
Hart: Corey Perry
Vezina: Carey Price
Selke: Ryan Kesler
Norris: Lubomir Visnovsky
Calder: Jeff Skinner
Adams: Dan Byslma
Byng: Martin St. Louis
"Look at Lemieux! Oh my goodness, what a goal, what a move! Oh baby!" - Bob Cole
Twitter @marcy8771
There are only 2 ways this could go.
1. Thomas (incredible numbers)
2. Rinne (almost as incredible, but with more games)
I don’t see how any other goalie could even be considered.
BTW Diomedes, people are really going to think we’re the same person…so we should start disagreeing on stuff…you know just to keep them guessing.
by AronV on Apr 11, 2011 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
And in fairness, I don’t even think Rinne WILL win, even though I would vote for him.
"Game's the same. Just got more fierce."
I think I would vote Thomas for the Vezina based on his absurd numbers, particularly that SV%. But if I had to pick a goalie for the Hart it would be Rinne without question. Boston would’ve likely still made the playoffs without Thomas, while the Preds likely wouldn’t have been in the top 10 in the west without Rinne.
Vezina is a statistics award. Its going to be Thomas, no arguing there. But don’t really get why people hate mentioning goalies for Hart. Fleury or Price might not have the stats but they are the main reason for their teams being in the playoffs.
Rinne however can be mentioned in both. He was the foundation of that Preds team. Their leading scorer is like 48th in the league or something. Plus he is 2nd to Thomas in most goalie stats with way more games played and meaningful ones as they were fighting for a playoff spot.
When he retires, all Evgeni Malkin interviews should go in a museum. - PD
Because the extra room at Mario's was already taken.
Shoot everybody.
GIRLS LOVE.
I think it’s since the goalie is inherently the most important player, stopping 25-30 goals a game (usually). Every year in GVT the top of the list is dominate by goalies. They need to be held to a different standard, and plus already have the Vezina.
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"Numbers don't lie, they just don't agree with you"--George E. Ays
If I reference a lot of stats, just assume I haven't seen anything to contradict or invalidate them.
by red army line on Apr 12, 2011 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions
38 wins, he started 70 (!) games and still places in the top 10 in stats. And didn’t have the benefit of a Tukka Rask to back him up. Like I said, he won’t win, but these are my picks. He should at least get a nomination
"Look at Lemieux! Oh my goodness, what a goal, what a move! Oh baby!" - Bob Cole
Twitter @marcy8771
Agree with most of those
Hart: D.Sedin (Nucks top in too many categories to say otherwise)
Vezina: MAF (if we can drop his 1-6 start) held the Pens together
Selke: Kesler (Monster of a season)
Norris: Visnovsky (Not a runaway this year, Lidstrom seemed to have lost a bit)
Calder: Skinner (by a nose over Couture and Grabner)
Adams: Disco Dan in a landslide (are you kidding me? Hope he can work some of his reg. season magic in the playoffs)
Byng: Marty StL.
Hart: D.Sedin (Nucks top in too many categories to say otherwise)
I would say your reasoning is exactly why someone other than Sedin should be considered for the Hart: the team clearly has several key players, and as good as Sedin’s performance was this season, it’s not clear that he was more valuable to his team than those with great performances on weaker teams.
Also, your reasoning for MAF makes him more of a candidate for the Hart than the Vezina, in my opinion. The Vezina is for the best goalie — for the goalie who is best at his position, as compared to all the other goalies in the league. MAF was decidedly awesome this season (save for his terrible start), but I just don’t think he has racked up a Vezina-worthy performance.
Cooke for Byng. Kunitz for Prime Minister. Orpik for President.
by PopRocks on Apr 11, 2011 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Keith Yandle
deserves some love for the Norris
on a minus team he was +12 (as of a few days ago…)
and he led PHX in scoring — from the blueline
he was also 3rd in the NHL among D-men in scoring
he had the weakest supporting cast
and he came thru in all aspects of the game
correction. the Coyotes were not a minus team. they were +5.
they would have been minus, BUT FOR Yandle.
its a coin flip for me really b/w Yandle and Visnovsky
Vis had a RIDICULOUSLY good supporting cast
esp. on the PP — Corey Perry, Getzlaf, BRyan, SELANNE!
Yandle had no one
That team did not have ONE 20-goal scorer until the final game of the year — Doan hit 20.
I’m changing my vote: Keith Yandle for Norris
also like the Manny Malhotra pick for Selke by Hooks
but Kesler’s 41 goals, almost 2x hits, and better +/- are hard to overcome
I didn’t realize scoring goals was relevant to being a defensive forward. (Even though you’re probably right that Kesler is much more likely to win it).
"Game's the same. Just got more fierce."
Yeah, I think it’s the implications of all that offense—possession on the attack—that’s more important rather than the offensive totals themselves.
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"Numbers don't lie, they just don't agree with you"--George E. Ays
If I reference a lot of stats, just assume I haven't seen anything to contradict or invalidate them.
by red army line on Apr 11, 2011 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions
No way does Lids deserve the Norris this year. He will probably get it due to the crazy political game we call the NHL but there are a few ahead of him.
Yes. Just because he is one of the best defensemen ever does not mean he has to be a guaranteed Norris winner every year. Look at guys like Vis, Yandle, and Weber—-even Ehrhoff had a crazy good year but no one mentions him.
They really do need a separate trophy for most points by a defensemen. I think it’d help with the voting for Norris.
by Geno McFleury on Apr 11, 2011 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions
He’s still one of the best, but he’s not two steps above everyone else like he was until at least 08-09.
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"Numbers don't lie, they just don't agree with you"--George E. Ays
If I reference a lot of stats, just assume I haven't seen anything to contradict or invalidate them.
by red army line on Apr 11, 2011 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Anyone check out the final scouting rankings?
Let’s say we end up getting the 22-25 pick. If we follow the rankings we’d be looking at some good players: Puempel, Biggs, and Ambroz.
Can anyone verify our picks?
1st (pitt)
2nd (pitt)
no 3rd
no 4th
5th (pitt)
6th (pitt)
7th (pitt)
7th (SJ)
You’re right, but forgot the Kovalev trade….The Pens will lose their 6th round pick to Ottawa if they win one round of the playoffs (and Kovalev plays in half the games). If those conditions aren’t met, the Pens give up (their) 7th rounder to Ottawa from this year.
"Game's the same. Just got more fierce."
Wow how did I forget that? Ha. We can see why Shero wanted to keep the 1st (and 2nd) round pick. We are short on picks this year.
by Geno McFleury on Apr 11, 2011 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Signing the two college guys this year, Thompson and Gibbons, will hopefully help soften the blow of not having the 3rd/4th round picks.
Exactly. Sometimes even when you get to 3rd, 4th, 5th round guys, you don’t even sign them to professional contracts because they did not develop like you thought they might on draft day.
Getting pro level talent from undrafted college kids is a huge boost to keeping the system stocked with minor league talent/potential….But it’s only good if you can get them to sign, and Shero’s got Pittsburgh in a great spot for how they’ve been able to develop other guys (Letestu, Curry, Thiessen, etc)
"Game's the same. Just got more fierce."
that first and second pick is where most of the value is anyway, so I have no problem with Shero dealing his later picks for the fun of it.
Yea I’d like to have the 3rd as well but getting a chance at Hamhuis was worth it. Plus this draft isn’t any thing too special
by Geno McFleury on Apr 11, 2011 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
If Disco isn’t at least a finalist for the Adams it will be a crime.
When are the awards finalists announced, anyway?
During the playoffs, there will be a week where finalists for each award are announced, one award a day. I think it’s during the CF.
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"Numbers don't lie, they just don't agree with you"--George E. Ays
If I reference a lot of stats, just assume I haven't seen anything to contradict or invalidate them.
by red army line on Apr 11, 2011 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I can’t believe you guys didn’t pick Fleury for the Hart. I think that one is a no-brainer but I totally admit to being biased. And I really hope Dan gets the JA award, he really kept the guys on track this year. Can’t help but feel crappy knowing Sid should be taking atleast two of these home if it weren’t for “the incident”. Go Pens!!!!
Hometown Proud :)
"He loves hockey. He has soul." Mike Babcock about Sidney Crosby :)
Get better soon Sid...
by mummabear87 on Apr 11, 2011 3:04 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Lidstrom is a -2!!!!
I’m sorry.. he plays on a damn good team and given he puts up a shit ton of points for a defensman.. he’s a -2.. I don’t care if he plays against the best forwards in the world every night.. he’s a -2
There's an 87% chance this post is sarcasm...
+/-
doesn’t account for PP or PK
doesn’t account for which player actually made the goal happen (vs or for)
it does not take into account the role of the player
it can swing radically from year to year
I just can’t trust it to tell me whether that player is good or not. What I do know is that Lidstrom is good…he’s not “in his prime” good, but he’s good. He’s a man, he’s 40! And while the -2 doesn’t look pretty, it’s really not telling me a whole lot. Having said all that, I don’t think he was the best defenseman this year nor do I think he should win the Norris based on reputation.
I realize that..
And the fact that he’s 40 is a huge reason he shouldn’t win the Norris… He’s slow.. He’s like the Kovalev of Defensman.. Excellent hands, great positioning, great offensive awareness.. Just lost the physical abilities to be the top defensman.
Those that say he’s not winning it on reputation are fooling themselves.. if he wins it this season, that’s EXACTLY why he’s winning it.
There's an 87% chance this post is sarcasm...
I can get behind that argument, but you are doing a great disservice calling him the Kovalev of Defenseman. I agree that he should not be winning the Norris this year as a lifetime achievement award, especially since he’s won so many already deservingly.
Excellent hands, great positioning, great offensive awareness.. Just lost the physical abilities to be the top defensman.
Lidstrom’s known, though, for being very economical and minimalist in movement, like Pronger.
My blog and Twitter, featuring coverage of the most frustrating team in the NHL
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"Numbers don't lie, they just don't agree with you"--George E. Ays
If I reference a lot of stats, just assume I haven't seen anything to contradict or invalidate them.
by red army line on Apr 12, 2011 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not saying Lidstrom isn't still great
but when it comes to picking the best in a class.. you need more than the ability to put up points on the PP.
Frank’s reasoning for Viz is spot on.. that and the fact that more than half of Viz’s points were at even strength as compared to Lidstrom who put up 39 of his 62 points on the PP has to count for something.
There's an 87% chance this post is sarcasm...
Toews??
Surprised no one mentioned ‘Captain Serious’ for at least the Selke (or even the Hart). He is very clutch but not one to pad his stats with garbage goals/assists so the stats don’t jump out at you so much with him during the regular season. Anyway, here are my picks:
Hart: Perry
Vezina: Rinne
Selke: Toews (coin flip with him and Kesler for me)
Norris: Keith Yandle (nearly led the ’Yotes in points)
Calder: Grabner
Adams: Dan Byslma
Byng: (Datsyuk if healthy but this year goes to Eriksson)
Kesler Over Toews ANYDAY
Cheers for the Pens! Cheers for the Canucks!
Prayers and good thoughts for Manny: get well soon.
Come on Sid....we're waitin'.......Playoffs.....Playoffs.....
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by PensFanInDenver on Apr 11, 2011 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Just for fun
Crosby was averaging these totals over a full season.
GP: 82
G: 64 (14 more than Perry)
A: 68
Pts: 132 (28 more than D.Sedin)
Justin: “Out of all the skaters on playoff teams, [Stamkos] had the biggest percentage of his team’s offensive and defensive output.”
He scored 4 goals in his/Lightning’s last 22 games (and 1 was an empty-netter). He faded down the stretch. Which, by the way coincided with St.Louis getting put on Lecavalier’s line who had 12 goals in his last 22 games. So it seems to me Stamkos ain’t even MVP of his team (it’s obviously St.Louis), let alone the NHL.
A Matt Cooke Defender 'Til Death!
I don’t mind off the board picks, but some of this was downright hilarious. This crowd in general would have been up in arms if Green had won the Norris in either of the last two years, and he’s better defensively than either Buff or Lubo AND he had better offensive numbers. But OK. I’m on board with Lidstrom, but even in getting it right Justin gets it wrong:
For once, Nicklas Lidstrom’s Norris Trophy will be deserved and not simply based on reputation alone.
Whaaaaa? Lidstrom has lost more Norris’ on reputation (to Chara) than he’s won. Lidstrom was measured against Lidstrom of prior years and he paid for it despite being the best choice that year as well. The only reason he wasn’t a finalist last year was because people are tired of him.
I love Kopi for Selke, but I never had the impression as a horse in his own end, didn’t watch him enough this year, and am not going to put enough faith in that one stat to convince me. It’s moot, because Selke is such a reputational award he won’t have a chance this year. Malhotra for Selke is interesting, but just isn’t how it’s awarded. I think you could make a great case that he’s the best defensive forward this year, but you need offensive numbers. It’s funny that Kesler gets a vote this year, because his offensive numbers are so high. But he only was allowed to have the offensive outburst because Manny took the real hard minutes Kesler used to take. Get an easier assignment, get more credit? Well… at least that would explain how Staal showed up on there (other than this being a Pens site, of course). He only played half the season, and didn’t even get the same defensive assignments as last year. If you’re going to give the rest of the league the finger and vote for a guy with only half a season, the obvious choice is Crosby. At least he would have earned the award based on his half season.
Thomas has the pretty numbers but the more I think about it the more I think Hooks has the right argument on Rinne (quick, someone tell Burton). That Boston team is a machine, Claude Julien has such a good defensive team that I think even the shot quality atheists have acknowledged that the Bruins are able to limit shot quality (which doesn’t exist!).
Grabner for Calder. Leading goal scorer with no help at all and a fraction of the PPTOI as the other guys. Literally.
Of course, Skinner had 66 more minutes on the power play than any other rookie (Derek Stepan), and 87 more than Couture. Grabner? Skinner had 188:27 more PP time than the Austrian. Grabner was 17th in PP ice time amongst rookie forwards (Couture was 6th). Nazem Kadri, he of 29 games played, had more power play minutes than Grabner for the full season. So did Matthias Tendenby, Mats Zuccarello, David Desharnais, Bobby Butler, and sparsely used Tyler Seguin.
(BQ ripped from a Japers’ Rink thread.) (Aside: how the hell did Grabner not get on the PP on LI? Who were they playing? Okposo missed most of the year, Tavares missed time, Bailey missed time… how many other guys did they have? Is Grabner sleeping with every coach’s wife on the first night in town?)
Gotta be Bylsma for Adams, I’d think. Although I’d like to see Babcock win it once because his teams are consistently amazingly coached but he never gets the love because the Wings are expected to be good. I’m sure that won’t be a popular opinion around here.
First Round Exit! (Clap Clap ClapClapClap) First Round Exit!
by Rob Parker on Apr 11, 2011 7:07 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I’ve got no problem with a little Babcock love: he’s obviously a great coach. But not this season, at the expense of Bylsma.
As for Grabner-vs-Skinner: I really think that time on the Power Play is earned. And Skinner clearly earned it. I can’t say I know much about Grabner (my mind tended to be on other things for one or two of the Pens-Islanders match-ups!), and I can’t say I have a lot of respect for the Islanders’ coaching staff this season, but Grabner’s lesser time on the PP does seem to signal something about his play.
Also, while it may not be fair, I think Skinner gets the nod over Grabner since Grabner already had 20 games of experience under his belt with the Canucks before this season even started. Yes, he’s still technically a rookie. But he came into the season with a bit of an advantage over Skinner. And Skinner took the rookie points title.
Cooke for Byng. Kunitz for Prime Minister. Orpik for President.
I wouldn’t have minded Green for Norris. I think too many Caps players get a bad rep on defense because of stuff that happened years ago. I can’t speak for others, of course.
It’s funny that Kesler gets a vote this year, because his offensive numbers are so high.
The best defense is great offense. His assignments got easier but he’s still a solid two way forward. It’s tough tracing out the boundaries of what makes a good Selke candidate, so I think fighting over it is a bit futile given how unpredictable and varied everyone’s choices are.
In general, possession and Corsi stats are mostly how I went about picking my candidates, tempered by zone start, comp and team numbers. It’s not perfect as we’re waiting for adjustments to all of these formulas, but Couture’s greater PP time is irrelevant if he is dominating possession over the course of the season at a rate greater than most others.
Hockey Blogger at Pensburgh.com
but Couture’s greater PP time is irrelevant if he is dominating possession over the course of the season at a rate greater than most others.
He doesn’t even look as good as Grabner, though. I really like Couture, but when his goal scoring slowed down and Grabner passed him, in my mind, you gotta give it to the guy who plays the much more defensive role there, given that their offense isn’t too different at ES.
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"Numbers don't lie, they just don't agree with you"--George E. Ays
If I reference a lot of stats, just assume I haven't seen anything to contradict or invalidate them.
by red army line on Apr 12, 2011 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions
You’re looking at Corsi Rel. Let’s look at Corsi ON. Grabner has much less help and plays against tougher comp and has a bad zone start. So he gets a big boost. Is it enough to make up for a zero Corsi ON and bring up to 14? Maybe, but I don’t think it’s that significant. Grabner had a great year, as did Couture, but I think once you adjust for zone start and competition, Couture still wins out, admittedly by less.
Hockey Blogger at Pensburgh.com
Looking at BtN, I’m estimating a Corsi ON for SJS as a team as +8, and for NYI as -8. That’s a difference of 16 right there.
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"Numbers don't lie, they just don't agree with you"--George E. Ays
If I reference a lot of stats, just assume I haven't seen anything to contradict or invalidate them.
by red army line on Apr 13, 2011 12:09 AM EDT up reply actions
I don’t get the automatic Stamkos references (one here, lots out on the internets) in regards to the Hart. Its like the last couple years with OV, he seemed to win his 2nd one just based on rep alone. Had a great year of course, but Malkin won the scoring title which is usually… a lock, also won it while leading the Pens during Sid’s injury and hauling us to the playoffs on his back. The exact criteria that won OV his first MVP…but I digress! haha.
I put St. Louis over Stamkos all day. More points, and Stamkos is way more reliant on St. Louis than vice/versa. Not knocking Stamkos, but St. Louis is also more of a leader in the room and on the ice, imo, just due to his veteran status.
I am always harsh on guys who play with another legitimate contender for MVP (Daniel – Henrik, Getzlaf – Perry, Stamkos – St. Louis, etc). Some guys like Dats and Sid would get more weight, since they play on opposite lines of the other superstar, ie – Sid 1st line, Malkin 2nd line, ditto with Zetterberg, I think). Perry would be a great choice though, and I think he will end up winning it.
by LastSonOfKrypton on Apr 12, 2011 1:27 AM EDT reply actions
A little more on Lidstrom: via TOI, he’s 54.1% Fenwick with the score tied (Detroit as a team is 53.8%), but he’s only 51.6% total (Detroit is 53.5%). Has Detroit been trailing? Lidstrom only going out in leading/tied and not trailing situations?
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"Numbers don't lie, they just don't agree with you"--George E. Ays
If I reference a lot of stats, just assume I haven't seen anything to contradict or invalidate them.
You’re a smart one. Wise decision.
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My picks...
the NHL got it almost entirely correct.
except for the predictable Lidstrom BS
with Frank on the 1st 3, then with GoPens! on the rest
Corey Perry
Tim Thomas
Ryan Kesler
Lubomir Visnovsky/Keith Yandle (just NOT Lidstrom, please!)
Jeff Skinner (close b/w Corey Crawford — both are deserving, but Skinner is off the charts)
Disco Dan
then…who cares (for Byng)?
by Diomedes7 on Apr 11, 2011 10:44 AM PDT reply actions
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- Gagne back at practice, enjoying Kings' success
- First-place Knights go sight-seeing while awaiting Memorial Cup final
- NHL Network and NHL.com unveil comprehensive coverage plans for the 2012 Stanley Cup Final
- Canadiens hire Rick Dudley as assistant GM
