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Protecting Sid and Geno with 7 Defensemen


With Ray Shero admitting that Eric Godard will not be re-signed and Mike Rupp seemingly on his way out of Pittsburgh, the Pens seem to lack that big, heavyweight winger who can go toe-to-toe with the Trevor Gillies' of the NHL.  Sure, re-signed Aaron Asham (all 5'10" and 196lbs. of him) can handle his own against the likes of Zenon Konopka, but against the likes of a Colton Orr, he's not an even tilt.

This leaves one man in the heavyweight division for the Pens:  Deryk Engelland.  And I'm fine with this under a certain scenario as described below:

 

Star-divide

Typically, a defenseman doesn't fill the role of enforcer simply because - with the usual compliment of only 6 defensemen on the bench - each is expected to log at least 10 mins. of  ice time on a regular even-strength shift.  That's difficult if you're regularly sitting in the box for 5 minutes (or in the case of added misconducts, 15 mins.) at a time.

Orpik_jpg_medium
Never a good sight when your shutdown D is in the box for killing a man with his stare.

Sometimes, however, teams dress 7 defensemen for a game.  This can sometimes be due to injuries to forwards (particularly when there isn't time for a call-up).  Tampa Bay coach Guy Boucher regularly plays with 11 forwards and 7 defensemen for a number of reasons:

First, injuries: "I always find defensemen are always the ones to fall quicker than forwards because they are more subjected to some pounding, so it gives you more liberty in terms of a buffer for injuries," Boucher said. "If you have a defenseman who is injured and wants to play and can play, though we're not sure to what extent, then having that extra defenseman gives you the liberty to feel it out and see if your guy is good enough for an entire game." 

Next, the power play: "You can have a specialist if you want. Sometimes a guy who is a power-play guy has more trouble five-on-five. So, it gives us a liberty to have a guy like that in the lineup." 

And flexibility: "When you have an injury during a game, you're down to five defensemen.  If you have a guy in the penalty box, you're down to five defensemen again. So, if you have an extra defenseman it levels the playing field because you have six and aren't stuck with playing five for two periods or whatever it is."

Bylsma's done this on occasion as well, though it's not his standard lineup.  One noticeable occurence was on January 6, 2011--yep, the game after Sidney Crosby's second concussion.  There was no Crosby and no Cooke, either, so Bylsma dressed his typical third defense pairing of Goligoski-Lovejoy, but added Engelland.  However, there was one important tweak:

• Defenseman Deryk Engelland played a little bit of forward with Crosby and Cooke being out of the lineup. He saw time on the Penguins' fourth line with Mike Rupp and Craig Adams, telling FSN’s Dan Potash during the second intermission that he hadn’t played forward since his time with Las Vegas of the East Coast Hockey League.

And there's the opening.  Now, I'm not suggesting Engelland make a permanent move to the wing.  He's a solid, physical defender who does a good job on the blueline for 12-15 mins. a night.  But if Bylsma moved to a seven-defensemen lineup, Engelland could either be thrown on the ice (1) as a defender without the fear of hurting his team by sitting in the box, or (2) as a 4th line winger a few shifts a game to mix it up with the opposition blueliners.

Deryk Engelland
It hurts the same whether he's punching you behind his net or in front of yours.

I can think of another defenseman in recent years who could similarly jump back-and-forth:  Christoph Schubert.  Schubert certainly wasn't an enforcer, but his 6'2", 210 lb. frame was used both as a defensemen and as a regular fourth-line winger to add size.  In 2008-2009, Schubert landed 102 hits in only 50 games played.  Engelland could similarly be this type of player, but with obviously heavier hands.

Just some food for thought heading in to Friday's UFA free-for-all.  If Shero decides not to follow my suggestion and sign All-American Hero Cam Janssen, I won't panic.

Poll
What should Ray Shero do to protect the Pens' stars?
Stay put with Engelland and Asham
49 votes
Pay significantly higher market rate to re-sign Mike Rupp
19 votes
Sign Cam Janssen or another tough guy
29 votes
Give Tony Granato a flamethrower behind the bench
40 votes

137 votes | Poll has closed

The content expressed in fanposts does not necessarily reflect the opinions of the staff here at Pensburgh.com. FanPosts are opinions expressed by fans of various teams throughout the league but may be more Pittsburgh-centric for obvious reasons.

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After who knows how long of #jagrwatch throwing in the Granato option may prove detrimental to the integrity of the poll. In all seriousness I’d say stick with Engelland and Asham, if Rupp won’t come down to $1mil or less. I don’t know Cam Janssen, and so I can’t really give him fair consideration. As for other “tough guy” option, if the guy can play hockey then sure, but there’s no point getting rid of a good guy like Godard only to replace him with someone similar.

by Skyff on Jun 30, 2011 11:59 AM EDT reply actions  

Oh and I forgot to add the most important part! I’m not a fan of the 7 D-man thing. I reckon we’d be fine having Engo in the box from time to time, considering the solid top4 and the reduced minutes he plays (He’d only miss like one shift!).

by Skyff on Jun 30, 2011 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

I like to add a non-serious option to these polls, simply because some people want to participate yet not really add 2 cents to the discussion. My vote, obviously, was for Cam coming the Burgh. =)

Rupp sure sounds like a goner, and Dale Tallon seems to have interest. Chicago certainly could use Rupp now with the departure of Brouwer, and they’ll be willing to give him more than $1M. He’s worth it. Last night I figured that Rupp was essentially a combination of Godard and Talbot’s roles, which would’ve been worth $1.8M in salary. Granted, he’s not as good a penalty killer, but he brings more at even strength than Talbot and could even show up on the man advantage as a net front presence.

DUE TO THE LENGTH OF NHL HOCKEY
SKATE ELECTRIC WILL NOT BE SEEN

by docciavelli on Jun 30, 2011 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah a lot seems to be swirling from Chicago regarding Rupp interest. Rupp definitely seems to think someone out there is going to show him they $$.

SB Nation PIttsburgh

"Game's the same. Just got more fierce."

by Hooks Orpik on Jun 30, 2011 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

The real danger with Rupp is a multi-year deal. He’s not getting any younger, and injuries/loss of effectiveness at even strength could show up in another year or so.

DUE TO THE LENGTH OF NHL HOCKEY
SKATE ELECTRIC WILL NOT BE SEEN

by docciavelli on Jun 30, 2011 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Aye, he’s at that age where I’d only be comfortable with 1 year deals. And as with all our free agents stands to make more money elsewhere.

by Skyff on Jun 30, 2011 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think 11/7 could work well. Especially with Bylsma liking to double shift Crosby or Malkin with the 4th line to keep everyone on their toes. Adams is likely to be out there, and he’s no offensive dynamo, but there’s a good chance that guys like Nick Johnson and Eric Tangradi could benefit from this at some point in the year too.

But then again, I wouldn’t count out Shero though, he likes size and toughness. Even though they had Godard two years ago he signed Rupp and most didn’t see that coming or how it would work (myself included). Then with Rupp AND Godard he signed Asham last year and that too proved beneficial. Now that the Pens are losing Godard and Rupp to free agenct, I wouldn’t be surprised at all if Shero added a 4th line grinder/fighter with size and toughness.

SB Nation PIttsburgh

"Game's the same. Just got more fierce."

by Hooks Orpik on Jun 30, 2011 12:05 PM EDT reply actions  

That’s kind of where I’m leaning. The Asham signing was a sign that he’s looking for toughness, and I can definitely see a bruiser added. It probably won’t come until next week though—he’s not going to overpay, so maybe he waits until Rupp and a few heavyweights are off the market before dropping a $550-600k offer on a guy like Eric Boulton just to sit in the press box during all non-Flyers/Isles tilts.

DUE TO THE LENGTH OF NHL HOCKEY
SKATE ELECTRIC WILL NOT BE SEEN

by docciavelli on Jun 30, 2011 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Just a thought, but what about that Veilleux kid, he’s huge, can he fight? Not that I have any clue whether he’s even remotely ready for the NHL.

by Skyff on Jun 30, 2011 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

He’s really not a tough guy in the sense of fisticuffs, from what I’ve seen. TonyAndrock could answer better, but he’s not even in Asham’s league in my opinion.

DUE TO THE LENGTH OF NHL HOCKEY
SKATE ELECTRIC WILL NOT BE SEEN

by docciavelli on Jun 30, 2011 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Fair enough. Engelland it is!

by Skyff on Jun 30, 2011 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, Veilleux will fight, but he’s not really a scrapper. Plus he’s a little too unpolished for me. He needs more AHL time and hopefully can refine his game and keep putting up points.

SB Nation PIttsburgh

"Game's the same. Just got more fierce."

by Hooks Orpik on Jun 30, 2011 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

I also like the 11/7 idea, as I think it would give opposing coaches fits if they have to worry about whether Crosby and Malkin are skating with the first, second, or fourth lines. It could also be a way to get Sid/Geno out against the other team’s more favorable 3rd D pairing more often during the game.

If Shero does bring someone else in to fill that role, I hope it will be someone like Rupp, who would play more than a handful of games, instead of someone like Goddard.

by gilathiel on Jun 30, 2011 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, i remember when Bylsma did this before and he used it as a way to give extra even strength minutes to Crosby and Malkin. Crosby would wind up on the ice with Craig Adams and Max Talbot, and wouldn’t you know it—Crosby’s still dangerous with those guys.

From my perspective, it’s a way of keeping Engelland in the lineup even when you’d rather have the mobility of Niskanen on the blueline against those teams that have a more up-tempo forecheck.

DUE TO THE LENGTH OF NHL HOCKEY
SKATE ELECTRIC WILL NOT BE SEEN

by docciavelli on Jun 30, 2011 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Right. And Engelland has clearly fallen to #7 of the depth chart.

A lot of fans have soured on Niskanen, but he had, what 23 games in a new system on his off-side? I’m willing to give him another chance. The Penguins are going to ask him to do a lot of heavy lifting, he can sort of play into himself and hopefully realize the potential that he has.

So, from that perspective if you’ve got 6D who are better than Engelland (and I think they do) than you need to find a way to get the enforcer in the lineup.

SB Nation PIttsburgh

"Game's the same. Just got more fierce."

by Hooks Orpik on Jun 30, 2011 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Aye I agree it’s far too early to judge Niskanen. Defencemen always have a harder time after mid-season trades. Just look at Kaberle who really didn’t find his stride until the final or at least conference final. This is particularly true when moving conference.

by Skyff on Jun 30, 2011 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Or better yet, it’s a way of easing Després into the lineup, by having that 7th defenseman already on the bench in case he is needed.

by gilathiel on Jun 30, 2011 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Could work, but I doubt it. If Despres makes it to the NHL next season, they probably don’t have 7 healthy defenseman to play.

SB Nation PIttsburgh

"Game's the same. Just got more fierce."

by Hooks Orpik on Jun 30, 2011 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agree totally. Frankly, I expect Brian Strait up before Despres. Despres needs to log big, top-4 and special teams minutes and that’s only going to happen in WBS. Strait, however, doesn’t really have much top-4 potential in my mind, so there’s no detriment in calling him up to play 12 mins. a game.

DUE TO THE LENGTH OF NHL HOCKEY
SKATE ELECTRIC WILL NOT BE SEEN

by docciavelli on Jun 30, 2011 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

There’s no need to rush his development with the 7 defencemen we have signed. I say give him a year or two in the AHL with injury callups.

by Skyff on Jun 30, 2011 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'd say go with the 11-7

Like others have said, Crosby & Malkin double shift quite often and the Pens regularly have a forward that logs way less than 10 minutes a game… You can rotate Engo/Niskanen/Rev on the 3rd D-line and give Engelland a few shifts at forward and get all of the benefits.

If the Pens score a big goal, put Engelland out at forward with an Adams and Asham and make sure nothing dirty happens… I think the 11-7 could be a win/win for the Pens.

There's an 87% chance this post is sarcasm...

by Stros Bro on Jun 30, 2011 1:38 PM EDT reply actions  

Dressing 7 d-man also means more ice time for Staal, Malkin, and Crosby to eat up minutes down the middle.

Life is about one simple choice, get busy living or get busy dying

by Dr Tre on Jun 30, 2011 5:22 PM EDT reply actions  

Cant wait till free agency is over

All this speculation can go kapuey!

But I like the 7 D man thing.

My main problem be it a small one, is Niskanen. He makes a decent Salary at 1.5…but to me under performs. If he does not fix that and fast, he will be replaced and on another team by the next trade deadline or sooner.

Get in the fast lane grandma, the bingo game is ready to roll!

by PensForTheWin on Jul 1, 2011 12:19 AM EDT reply actions  

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