Why #68 Signing in Philly Is A Good Thing
Like nearly everyone else in the Penguins fanbase, I wanted to see Jaromir Jagr back in a Pittsburgh sweater for what should be the last year of his career. I remember the ridiculous goals and post-scoring salutes fondly, and despite his unceremonious departure in 2001 (netting all of 33 points from Kris Beech and Michael Sivek), I would've welcomed him back with open arms and a jar full of peanut butter.

Even after 11 years on the shelf, it would probably taste pretty good.
But this is where it ends. And honestly, whatever food product carries Steve Sullivan's name (maybe Gary Roberts makes a nutrition shake for him), it'll taste better than Jagr's Sour Grapes at less than half the cost. Here's why:
Let's do a simple comparison here on what I think are the most important factors to judge between the two players:
1. Skill Level

There's no doubt in my mind that Jagr's a more highly-skilled winger than Steve Sullivan. Always has been, always will be. Even at 39 years old, Jagr's probably going to score about 60 points in a top-6 role over an 82-game season. Steve Sullivan, 36, will probably come in somewhere just below the 51 points he scored in '09/'10, the last time he played a full 82-game season, and that's with either Crosby or Malkin as his pivot. Sullivan's not a bad top-6 winger by any metric, just not the guy you want as a #1 trigger man.
Advantage - Jagr
2. Defensive Ability

I don't have to look up statistics to justify my assertion that Jaromir Jagr is one of the worst back-checking wingers of all time. If I had a nickel for every time he was floating back into neutral ice while the play was already on the defensive side of the blueline, I'd have bought Facebook from Zuckerberg by now. Sullivan, on the other hand, is pretty solid defensively. He's received a few votes here-and-there for the Selke trophy, and while he's no Pavel Datsyuk, he certainly shows up in his own end. He's also killed penalties for the better part of his career, though he wasn't called on for that in the playoffs last year.
Advantage - Sullivan
3. Fragility

One of the knocks on Sullivan I've heard repeatedly since his signing is that he's fragile. Really? Yes, he missed two years and all of '07/'08 to a back injury and had a knee injury at the end of the playoffs last year after recurring groin issues that forced him to miss a few games. But two seasons ago, he played a full 82 games plus six in the playoffs. The Penguins had a good crash-course in fragility last season, and it's obviously not something we'd like to see repeated.
The flip side is Jagr. He's 39. Depending on your assessment of the nature of the KHL, he may not have played "full-contact" hockey in three years. Alex Ovechkin's open-ice bomb during the Olympics last year made Jagr look like a guy who didn't remember that extended dangling in the neutral zone can lead to concussions, even when Scott Stevens is no longer playing. Jagr's still a beast, but at this age, could he deal with 82 regular season games plus a full playoff schedule? How long does he take punishment in the corners before seeing time in the press box?
Advantage - Jagr (slightly)
4. Situational Fitness

Here's a huge difference between the two. Sullivan's game is fairly north-south, speed-oriented, and he's a right-handed shot who plays the left side of the man advantage. Jagr loves to play east-west, wheeling-and-dealing in both the offensive and neutral zones, using his lefty shot along the right boards on the power play. There's no doubt that Jagr was correct when he identified the difficulty the Pens would have fitting him on a power play unit that already had two lefties - Crosby and Malkin - who are best used on the right side. Sullivan's one-timer from the right circle is exactly what the doctor ordered for a terrible power play unit. He may not be Steven Stamkos, but who is?
Advantage - Sullivan
5. Opportunity Cost

The $1.8M difference between the two contracts is significant for a team like the Pens who are right up against the salary cap. Here's where we stand right now with the Pens roster:
FORWARDS
Chris Kunitz ($3.725m) / Sidney Crosby ($8.700m) / Pascal Dupuis ($1.500m)
James Neal ($2.875m) / Evgeni Malkin ($8.700m) / Steve Sullivan ($1.500m)
Matt Cooke ($1.800m) / Jordan Staal ($4.000m) / Tyler Kennedy ($2.000m)
Arron Asham ($0.775m) / Mark Letestu ($0.625m) / Craig Adams ($0.675m)
DEFENSEMEN
Paul Martin ($5.000m) / Zbynek Michalek ($4.000m)
Brooks Orpik ($3.750m) / Kristopher Letang ($3.500m)
Matt Niskanen ($1.500m) / Deryk Engelland ($0.566m)
Ben Lovejoy ($0.525m)
GOALTENDERS
Marc-Andre Fleury ($5.000m) / Brent Johnson ($0.600m)
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $61,316,667; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (21-man roster): $2,983,333
That extra $1.8M allows the Pens to fill their final two roster spots (both forwards) with any of the following: (1) Eric Tangradi @ $845k; (2) Dustin Jeffrey @ ~$600k (RFA TBD); (3) Nick Johnson @ $550k; (4) Joe Vitale @ $512k; or (5) free agents. Another interesting option would be using Derek Engelland as a "swing winger" for toughness, and adding recently-signed Boris Valabik as the 7th defenseman on the roster.
Here's another scenario--the Pens could, as indicated by the Valabik signing, be in the trade market for another winger. Valabik, at $550k, is a nearly $1M savings over Matt Niskanen. Add to this the fact that the Pens' organization is stacked with young, nearly NHL-ready defensemen (Strait, Bortuzzo, Despres), and Niskanen's value beyond this year is minimal. I could easily see Ray Shero trading Niskanen (who is an RFA next summer) to a team willing to trade a winger in the $2.5M range for a puck-moving defenseman.
All of these scenarios, however, would be nearly impossible if the Pens had signed Jagr at $3.3M and remained only $1.2M under the salary cap with two spots to fill.
Advantage - Sullivan
FINAL TALLY
When your brain's left side adds it all up, Steve Sullivan's a better signing than Jaromir Jagr. That doesn't take away the sting your brain's right side still feels from watching a former on-ice hero don the orange and black of those pieces of sh*t on the other end of the Turnpike. Believe me, it sucks. But it won't suck nearly as much when Jagr's packing his backs for Kladno in April while the Pens are still gunning for a Cup in the playoffs, thanks to a power play that now fires at above a pitiful 15.8%.
The content expressed in fanposts does not necessarily reflect the opinions of the staff here at Pensburgh.com. FanPosts are opinions expressed by fans of various teams throughout the league but may be more Pittsburgh-centric for obvious reasons.
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Really great stuff doc.
I could easily see Ray Shero trading Niskanen (who is an RFA next summer) to a team willing to trade a winger in the $2.5M range for a puck-moving defenseman.
Personally I disagree with that- but signing guys like Valabik and Picard gives Shero some flexibility. I’d give Niskanen another shot; joining a new NHL team and new defensive pair, playing on his off-side, there’s a lot of adversity there. I wouldn’t throw him away after <30 games because of that.
And not only would I not want to “sell low” on Niskanen, if possible, I also couldn’t really tell you who would be interested. Is there a team out there interested in him? Could be, but I doubt his market is hopping, leaving him to have better value for the Pens if he can put it together and play to his strengths next season, which he ought to be in good positioned to do playing sheltered 3rd unit minutes.
"Game's the same. Just got more fierce."
when the season
actually starts, if he is having a good one i can deffinatly see them dishing him for a winger ifthe current crop isnt performing up to snuff. way to early to judge trade value at this point i agree
" Lord Stanley, scratch thier names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009
by oldtimehockey09 on Jul 5, 2011 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions
To early or not
Niskanen is nit going to bring back a premier winger. Probably not even a 15-20 goal scorer. He could maybe fetch a veteran winger a la Guerin, or someone with some potential to be a solid winger in this league (probably a comparable to Johnson, Jeffrey). I thought their best chance to trade him was at the draft last week, of course he could always be traded for future draft picks.
by StripesForLife on Jul 5, 2011 7:55 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s a possibility, but better yet, get another young guy with potential in return: How about Niskanen for Jack Skille? I’d take it, straight up. It allows Florida to hit the salary floor, and given the glut of wingers brought in by the Panthers, they’d be willing to move one in order to get a puck-moving D.
Here’s another possibility: Say Shero trades Niskanen for a 2nd or 3rd round pick, just to free up salary space. Add Picard at $600k as the 6th D, and the Pens have $3,883,333 for two roster spots. I’m a fan of filling the 4th line with Joe Vitale at $512k, leaving $3.3M to make a signing.
Antti Miettinen for two years @ <$3M anyone?
DUE TO THE LENGTH OF NHL HOCKEY
SKATE ELECTRIC WILL NOT BE SEEN
that should’ve read “add Picard as the *7th D.” I’m not willing to put either Picard or Valabik ahead of Engelland on the depth chart.
DUE TO THE LENGTH OF NHL HOCKEY
SKATE ELECTRIC WILL NOT BE SEEN
I like the latter possibility. Niskanen is sort of out of place if you know what I mean. The Pens have guys that could step in and replace him and his salary is one that’s definitely worth dumping.
by StripesForLife on Jul 5, 2011 8:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Imo
It’s not so much what they can get for him, it would just be nice to have that 1.5M cap space back!
by MrChadysPens on Jul 6, 2011 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t totally disagree with you on this—selling Niskanen now would definitely be “selling low,” assuming he performs better with his 3rd pairing minutes this upcoming year. There’s still a bit of an expectation among GMs that he’ll come around based on his 35-pt season in ‘08/’09, and the Pens may actually lose all of his trade value if he winds up banished to #7 duty due to poor defensive play (which is a serious possibility).
Given the presence of Strait, Bortuzzo and Despres in WBS next season, there doesn’t seem to be a need for Niskanen in the future, despite his age (24) and RFA status next off-season.
DUE TO THE LENGTH OF NHL HOCKEY
SKATE ELECTRIC WILL NOT BE SEEN
The names you mention have a total of 3, 0 and 0 NHL games. I think any of them are worthy of at least 2011-12 cups-of-coffee in the NHL and probably any could be reliable by 2012-13, but still.
(And I realize it’s easy and a Shero tendency to add guys like Picard and Valabik like he has.)
"Game's the same. Just got more fierce."
Shero seems to find a Martin Skoula pretty much every year on the market that he thinks can fill in admirably as a 3rd-pairing defenseman in a pinch, and comes at near-minimum salary. The question is whether Strait/Bortuzzo/Despres could play regular minutes in the NHL next season (even perhaps Samuelsson or Sneep in 2013).
I think one of those three – most likely Strait – could play 3rd pairing minutes regularly next season. If that’s the case, whatever Niskanen could command as an RFA would likely be unnecessary.
DUE TO THE LENGTH OF NHL HOCKEY
SKATE ELECTRIC WILL NOT BE SEEN
I get the text of your post
But I think you’re stretching quite a bit.. Jagr’s upside is WAY greater than Sullivan’s upside. It’s not even close. Yes Sullivan is a skilled winger… But he’s not Jagr skilled… not even at 39.
Skill level.. advantage… BIG advantage.
It’s just a stretch to me to try and make a case that Jagr signing with Philly is good for the Penguins over him signing with the Pens(at the 2 million contract offered).
There's an 87% chance this post is sarcasm...
Jagr signing with the Pens for 2M = Good thing and better then signing Sullivan. Jagr signing with the Pens for 3.3M = Not a good thing, Sullivan the right way to go.
Let’s not sell Steve Sullivan down the river here. He may not have the raw talent of a Jagr, but he finds ways to score goals by doing dirty work, and he does have seven 20+ goal seasons in the NHL, most recently just before his serious back injury in ‘06/’07 (in only 57 games).
Sullivan also hasn’t had the greatest of linemates recently (Cal O’Reilly? Yeah, he’ll make you look good). Sullivan put up 51 points over 82 games two years ago with Jason Arnott and J.P. Dumont. Certainly not Crosby, Malkin, nor Staal.
Jagr last had Scott Gomez, Martin Straka and Brandon Dubinsky—the 2008 versions of all three, and put up 71 points.
I’ll stand by my assessment that there’s a significant drop-off in skill, but not a “HUGE” one.
Re: signing Jagr for $2M, yeah, I probably would’ve taken him for that price over Sullivan, but if you read my prior FanPost re: Free Agency, I still listed Jagr as my third favorite UFA pickup behind Vrbata and Ryder.
DUE TO THE LENGTH OF NHL HOCKEY
SKATE ELECTRIC WILL NOT BE SEEN
Yeah I would have taken Vrbata and Ryder as well. Anything over 2M and I was hoping Jagr wouldnt sign. I dont think I was selling Sullivan short though, Jagr is just that much more gifted with skill but you are right, Sullivan has no problem doing the dirty work. And I`m glad Shero took the path he took because maybe Jagr would have been a `locker room` problem. 39 years old and he still acts like he is 19! Sorry Jagr the world does not revolve around you :)
by MrChadysPens on Jul 6, 2011 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
the story that wont die
this is it right here……….
" Lord Stanley, scratch thier names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009
I don’t recall the puck being dropped on the ‘11/’12 season yet. Until that point, we’ll probably be debating the roster changes and changes that could have been. Jagr happens to be the #1 story when it comes to potential free agents that the Pens targeted.
Now, if Shero pulls a trade to pick up another scoring winger, the Jagr story goes on the backburner while we all kick around the latest roster change.
DUE TO THE LENGTH OF NHL HOCKEY
SKATE ELECTRIC WILL NOT BE SEEN
Maybe so, but this was a pretty interesting take on it in my opinion. It’s one thing to just go all “woe is me Jagr Jagr Jagr” and it’s another to actually find a way to compare the Penguins’ signing of Sullivan to the Flyers’ signing of Jagr. I’m a fan of the post.
Follow the Penguins on SBN @ Pensburgh.com, twitter and now on the official Pensburgh Facebook page
granted
maybe im just of jj overload at this points…im expecting Christmas week to be even worse
" Lord Stanley, scratch thier names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009
by oldtimehockey09 on Jul 6, 2011 2:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Thanks, Frank. Just doing my best here. =)
DUE TO THE LENGTH OF NHL HOCKEY
SKATE ELECTRIC WILL NOT BE SEEN
for what its worth
pretty good piece, i just want the jj shenanigans to go the way of the dodo. i like the inking SS for sure, not suprised by JJ’s move at all really, both long term and short term it looks like a win for the pens
" Lord Stanley, scratch thier names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009
by oldtimehockey09 on Jul 6, 2011 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I haven’t read the post yet but I still have a sealed jar of that creamy Jagr butter sitting on my Pens shelf.
by Schide on Jul 5, 2011 5:55 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
And media promotions + sweater sales?
Advantage: Jagr
…not that I necessarily disagree with Shero’s decision/managment of the Jagr offer, but they are running a business as well as a hockey team.
How many articles will be written by you guys about losing a 39 year old former star. I’m hoping Jagr puts up 40 points this season playing with Briere. That is best case scenario for the Flyers IMO.
Get over your loss. It’s not like your GM got high on meth and traded Malkin and Crosby so he could sign a goalie.
Bleeding orange and black since birth. I really should get a doc to do some blood tests; this can't be normal.
We're over the loss of Jagr(at least the vast majority)...
not much to talk about in the offseason and Jagr is obviously a controversial item.
Get over yourself.
There's an 87% chance this post is sarcasm...
i lol'd
It’s not like your GM got high on meth and traded Malkin and Crosby so he could sign a goalie.
" Lord Stanley, scratch thier names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009
by oldtimehockey09 on Jul 6, 2011 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions
wow other than crosby and malkin your team sucks. the defense is ouch. neal might pan out and staal will be solid 2ways but the rest of your forwards are grinders.
sullivan will get hurt guaranteed.
o’h and i cry foul comparing jagr with sullivan? really!!! dumb
Are you for real?
Pitts has arguably the best top 4 D in the league! Neal WILL pan out, if you have ever watched him play you would know he has talent! 106 points without their two superstars for the last half of the season and without Staal for the first half. Not to mention the countless injuries to the defense core. Sure it really is dumb to even suggest Sullivan is a better player then Jagr but given the cap situation Sullivan WAS the better signing. Pitts will have more depth now because they didnt sign Jagr for 3.3M as some bonehead in Philly did! So all in all if this team stays healthy this upcoming year they will definitely improve on the 106 points they had last year. So I’m not exactly sure where the word sucks comes into play.
this guy needs to fix his shift button
really curious how he got !!! marks in his post w/out it.
There's an 87% chance this post is sarcasm...
hi
" Lord Stanley, scratch thier names on your fabled cup" Mike Lange june 12, 2009
by oldtimehockey09 on Jul 6, 2011 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Clueless
You might want to check the stats there buddy and look where the Pens ranked defensively. I guess that debunks your DUMB post right there. Of course there is more. How can a team accumulate over 100 points without their two best players genius? Funny how you say something is dumb where your post is full of stupidity.
Proud fan of Pittsburgh's professional sports teams and the Pirates too.
by Black&GoldTrain on Jul 8, 2011 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm very glad that Jagr didn't come back.
He will be scraping himself off the ice gasping for air come playoff time since his body is conditioned to play 50 games in the KHL. It’s a soft league. He’s going to get punished here and his body won’t hold up.
I was in the minority of Pens fans that didn’t want him here. The guy was selfish before and nothing changed.
Proud fan of Pittsburgh's professional sports teams and the Pirates too.
by Black&GoldTrain on Jul 8, 2011 11:28 PM EDT reply actions

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