Goaltending Depth: Do the Penguins Have It, And Do They Need It?
For the past few years now we've known about the depth of the Penguins down the middle. In a way it started with Sidney Crosby, developed a bit more with Evgeni Malkin and solidified itself with Jordan Staal. Granted we had a few positional changes from time to time with two of those guys, but for the most part all three of those names are locks for playing down the middle for the Pens.
In recent years, the Pens front office has also made a conscious effort to develop a bit more in the defensive end. Ray Shero showed this by drafting defensemen high in the draft in two of the last three years. While far too early to solidify his "right" or "wrong" decision on those players, the rapid advancement of a guy like Simon Despres tells us all something we've already known: Shero's the Man.
But what about goaltending? For the past eight seasons we've witnessed the ups and downs of Marc-Andre Fleury's career. Yet we've also seen a number of back-up goaltenders come and go, and even a few "system" guys disappear off the map completely.
We'll focus on just a small area of recent history, seeing as how it more or less plays a part in the spin-it-forward angle with the more recent element of Pittsburgh's goaltending depth.
If we start with the 2007-08 season, when the Pens really started to become contenders for the Cup, you'll see a few names that are no longer with the team: Dany Sabourin and Ty Conklin. While the latter of the two went on to put up some solid numbers for Pittsburgh before his career hit the skids a bit, Sabourin was not so fortunate. He was one of those "I hope he just posts a .500 record" sort of guys. Now he's playing for the Washington Capitals, which obviously means he is going to shut the Penguins out every single time the two teams meet. That's just how things bounce for the Pens, right? Nevertheless, Conklin and Sabourin combined for 28 of Pittsburgh's 47 wins that season.
Now let's look at 2008-09. A few different players jumped between the pipes for the Pens that season: Marc-Andre Fleury, Dany Sabourin, Mathieu Garon, John Curry. At quick glance none of those guys outside of Fleury is still with the team or in the system. That goes to show you a few things: 1) If you weren't grateful for Fleury now, you should be and 2) Backups come and go with regularity. There's no question that Fleury carried the team that season with a 35-18-7 record, especially when you consider Sabourin, Garon and Curry combined for a record of 10-10-2.
In 09-10 we had a few more faces pop up, including the legendary Alexander Pechurskiy. Curry had his number called on the rar eoccasions, but his 12.50 GAA would suggest it was best to go with some other options. So at the time there couldn't have been a better offseason acquisition than Brent Johnson, even if a few little injuries cropped up here or there. One again it was MAF doing the dirty work, but BJ registered a respectable 10-6-1 record.
Last year is probably the first year since Fleury started to really hit his stride that the Pens had to rely on the bench and system a bit more to provide some reinforcements (not counting the 2007-08 ankle injury). Correction: capable reinforcements. The support for Johnson was so great at times that we even witnessed slght hints of a starting goaltender battle. At least, that's what most of the media and fans would want you to believe. Fact is, it was MAF's job and he wasn't about to lose it regardless of his slow start. Johnson was a more than sufficient backup and it certainly comes as a relief knowing he will resume that role once again this season. We've said it a number of times on the site this season, but if Fleury had a better start to the season there is little question he would have cracked 40 wins.
So now we are forced to look at the depth of the team a bit more. With Curry leaving Wilkes-Barre/Scranton this offseason in favor of international work, Brad Thiessen will carry the torch and set himself up for a prime opportunity to join the parent club in 2011-12. If we're talking about depth, then the Pens basically roll three deep with Fleury, Johnson and Thiessen. But outside of that, should circumstances require it, they might be better off looking elsewhere for an experienced netminder.
At 26 years old, Fleury is officially hitting the peak of his career, a phrase that could potentially be very scary for the rest of the league considering how much he has accomplished in this short span. He's also under contract through the 2014-15 season, so this isn't exactly a case where the Pens are faced with replacing an aging goaltender whose contract is up in the air. But past evidence has shown you need a formidable backup, sometimes more than one. Johnson is reliable but he's also a bit on the fragile side. This has unfortunately been something that has lingered over the last few years for BJ and it's likely not going to change anytime soon.
While I'm not about ready to go out on a limb and say Fleury will get injured, I'm sure every team is prepared to account for such possibilities. With that said, we may see Thiessen on the bench for a few games this year and perhaps even in the crease if the Pittsburgh front office is left with few options in the wake of injuries and looking to bank on the idea of promoting him next season.
Mattias Modig is a depth prospect for the Pens. He played only a handful of games for the Wheeling Nailers last season, finishing 3-6 with a 3.27 GAA. He's logged plenty of experience overseas in Sweden it's safe to say that he's hardly ready to crack the Pens lineup during the regular season. And even on the extremely rare possibility that he does, it would have to be somewhere along the course of events that led to Pechurskiy's debut.
Scott Munroe is another guy in the system who will likely log a few minutes in the AHL. Before playing in the KHL last season, Munroe tallied five seasons in the AHL with the Philadelphia Phantoms and Bridgeport Soundtigers. In the event that Thiessen suits up for the parent club, whether it be a start or a bench spot, Munroe might benefit by earning some more playing time in WBS.
Patrick Killeen is the final guy we'll mention on the goaltending depth chart, yet again another Wheeling guy. Last season Killeen went 19-16-2, earning three shutouts along the way. At 21 he's certainly on the younger side of the Penguins' development spectrum, so the front office may take a slow and steady approach and possibly consider whether or not he will move up to WBS next season based on the shuffling of goaltenders at that level.
So there you have it: Pittsburgh's goaltending depth. Do they have it? Yes, yes they do. But it certainly carries with it some regimented boundaries at each level. By that I mean, each guy in the system is suited to play at the level he's at right now. You won't see Killeen suiting up for the Pens in October, just like you probably won't see Thiessen suit up in Wheeling. If any single player is on the fringe it would be Thiessen, and justifiably so. The guy's been with the Baby Pens for three seasons and posted a stellar 35-8-1 record for WBS last year.
As for the latter part of the question, do they need it? No, not yet at least. But let's be honest; it doesn't hurt to have it. We've seen in just last year alone how quickly injuries can decimate a club. Thankfully Fleury and Johnson were the only two guys who really needed to be relied on last season between the pipes. As an added bonus they also stayed healthy (for the most part) throughout.
But you never can be too safe, and it doesn't hurt to have a few guys on hand for the future either.
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Fleury basically is the goalie depth. As long as he’s healthy, all is well. It probably is worth pointing out that Brad Thessien, statistically, was the best goalie in the AHL last season.
Shero’s drafting has been interesting, really shying away from goalies. In six drafts he’s taken a total of 3 goalies (in the 5th, 5th and 6th rounds) and none in the past three years. A reason for that may be that it’s tough to judge a 17/18 year old goalie and know if he’ll pan out to be a pro prospect at age 23/24. Better to let the player develop and then sign them as a UFA if they do show it (Thessien and John Curry being perfect examples).
I’d say the Penguins are in good shape, they have no real need to develop prospect goalies with Fleury being 26 and under contract for the foreseeable future.
"You come at the King, you best not miss."
Fleury basically is the goalie depth. As long as he’s healthy, all is well. It probably is worth pointing out that Brad Thessien, statistically, was the best goalie in the AHL last season.
Yup. I think Johnny is one of the best backups in the NHL as well. Penguins have Thessien and that’s it for potential NHL ready guys. I think the depth is thinner than other teams (Capitals) but is nothing to sound an air raid siren over.
by ozman_fiftyone on Sep 1, 2011 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Depth doesn’t mean much to me, because you only need 1 guy in the crease. Depth is a nice luxury to have to hedge bets against an injury, but there’s no doubt having center or defense depth is a lot more useful for a team over the long haul. Especially when you’re #1 guy has been relatively healthy and has shown he can handle long workloads and playoff runs.
(Not that I’m saying you turn down getting a guy like Vokoun for $1.5 million if you get the chance, because I’m not)
"You come at the King, you best not miss."
I remember reading a really good article maybe two years ago or so that talked about the shift in drafting goalies high on the board. I think this was either 08 or 09 and it had a part that mentioned Fleury and Price going early in their respective classes.
Anyway, the point of the article was that you can undoubtedly get some solid talent between the pipes with a top draft pick, but the risk is also high should that guy not be NHL ready. You can secure a good goalie late in a draft and work with him through various leagues/team development (Henrik Lundqvist, 205th overall), or you can draft him early on and benefit (Fleury, 1st overall).
Or you can get him late in the draft, have him show signs of decency and then have him bomb completely and disappear off the face of the world or slip into a back-up spot (Andrew Raycroft).
Essentially, drafting goalies is a hit or miss process, based on my perceptions at least.
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It's worth noting that not even highly-drafted goalies have an amazing success rate.
In 2001, for example, three goalies were taken in the first round: Pascal Leclaire (8th overall), Jason Bacashihua (26th), and Adam Munro (29th). Between the three of them, their respective teams got one productive season: Leclaire’s 2007/08 year.
In 2004, four goalies were taken in the first round: Al Montoya (6th overall), Devan Dubnyk (14th), Marek Schwarz (17th), and Cory Schneider (26th). Only Schneider still has a legitimate chance at becoming a quality starter.
And, of course, who can forget Kari Lehtonen? It would be hard to classify him as a complete failure, but has he really turned in good value for a second-overall pick in the draft?
But yeah, you’re certainly right about how hard it is to hit when drafting a goalie. Maybe what the NHL needs is better and more reliable scouting and development for goaltenders, because it seems awfully hard to separate the wheat from the chaff, no matter where you happen to draft them.
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Craig Hillier
He was a former #1 pick of the Pens that never panned out as well.
Proud fan of Pittsburgh's professional sports teams and the Pirates too.
by Black&GoldTrain on Sep 4, 2011 2:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Craig Patrick
He seemed would always take at least one goalie in the draft every year. Craig Hillier was a bust who was drafted #1 by him. To answer your question I think the Pens do have depth but there is nothing wrong with stockpiling more of it.
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by Black&GoldTrain on Sep 4, 2011 2:02 AM EDT up reply actions
Depends how you look at depth. Since only 1 guy can start at a time, I think having 3 guys that look like they could do an average to above average job surely is enough.
Fleury is a top 10 goalie in the league (#11 if you ask me, but close enough)
Johnson is probably top 5 backup goalie
Thiessen AHL numbers wise is also looking like a viable candidate.
As Hooks said with Fleury being so young and locked up for a long time there’s no reason to worry about the Pens goal tending situation for the foreseeable future.
We may have some problems (injuries to [name redacted]), but goaltending ain’t one of them.
Excellent post Frank! I think the Pens are a fortunate organization in that there’s really no question mark surrounding their goaltending situation. I won’t say that Fleury’s the most consistent goalie in the league, but he’s certainly improved in that area. I’ve heard it said that goalie’s are at their peak around 28-30, which is very encouraging news considering how good MAF already is. Can’t wait to see what the team does this season with a healthy roster.
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Johnson and Fleury are a fantastic duo and I know if one of them falters, the other picks up the slack and we saw the evidence last season.
And I love that no matter what, Johnson will always be remembered in Pittsburgh because of the DiPietro fight.
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"You come at the King, you best not miss."
by Hooks Orpik on Sep 1, 2011 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
That guy wrapped himself in a Kevlar bubble and was a miracle worker that night in Vancouver
by ozman_fiftyone on Sep 1, 2011 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I read an article a few months back about how a lot of these young goalies are getting much bigger as well, like well over 6 foot, and I think a lot of GMs are still trying to figure out how that size of goalie can work out. You have a guy like Jonas Gustavsson who is huge and slightly good, but can’t judge him yet. I think the biggest concern was if their long lanky limbs could continually handle the strains and stretches.
Yeah, you almost never see a goalie break into the league that’s even 6’1 or less these days. The position has gotten a lot bigger and a lot more athletic over the past 15-25 years it’s crazy.
"You come at the King, you best not miss."
The NHL moved to pads size commensurate to player measurements in the 09-10 Season. No more ridiculously huge leg pads on the Chris Osgoods and Marty Turcos of the NHL.
Its a driving force in the upsizing of net minders. Taller goalies get bigger pads.
by ozman_fiftyone on Sep 1, 2011 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Caron
I remember when Sebastien Caron was supposed to be the future between the pipes in the “Experience the Evolution” days. He had his ups and downs from his infamous goal he gave up against the Capitals, to his amazing save against the flyers. He currently plays in the KHL.
by 66MarioLemieuxPlace on Sep 1, 2011 9:34 PM EDT reply actions
I dont need to read a thing
Unless Fleury breaks, No.
Pretty simple. It would be nice, but, anyone decent has to accept min wage and a part time role to be here. We live with what we have/get.

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