Evgeni State of Mind- Malkin, Fleury and the Pens roll past Rangers 4-1
by Hooks Orpik on Jan 20, 2012 9:48 AM EST
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PrintFor 60 minutes last night, the Pittsburgh Penguins played about the ideal road game. Which they needed in a tough building, against a prime opponent. The Pens were smart, took an early lead and never looked back as they again out-worked, out-shot and came away with a well earned victory against the New York Rangers.
The game started well for Pittsburgh, Chris Kunitz opened the scoring when he drove the net and followed up on a Paul Martin rebound to beat goalie Henrik Lundqvist about three minutes into the game. That would the be all of the scoring until the middle of the second when Carl Hagelin got the Rangers back into the game when he wristed a shot that trickeled past Marc-Andre Fleury for the 1-1 tie.
Then early in the third period, the Rangers pinched in and the puck quickly went the way on a 3 on 1 for Pittsburgh. In the most unlikely of combinations, Matt Cooke collected the puck and streaked up the ice with Deryk Engelland closing in the middle and Richard Park jetting down the other wing. Cooke sent the centering pass to Engelland, who coolly and calmly made a great decision and dished a perfect pass to Park. The vet made no mistakes instantly one-timing it by "The King" to give the Pens the eventual game winning goal.
Enter Malkin time. Evgeni Malkin continued his red-hot streak when he somehow corralled a puck off the wall from Marc Staal, skated right around a diving Michael Del Zotto to the slot and backhanded a beauty of a shot for a 3-1 lead. Malkin's got supreme confidence in his shot right now, and they're all working, especially that backhander. This goal, with 13 minutes left, really seemed to break the Rangers spirits. From here the Pens clamped down defensively and coasted through the rest of the game, with James Neal making a nice (and selfless) chip of the puck to Geno for the empty net exclamation point.
Some more thoughts for the game:
- What's Eric Tangradi thinking being a punching bag for Stu Bickel in the first? At that point the Pens had all the momentum and a 1-0 lead, the Rangers looked sleepy and the Madison Square Garden was largely dead. The fight woke all of them up, and the next shift Hagelin scored the only New York goal. Tangradi wants to make a name for himself and have an impact on the game, and that's great, but he needs to smarten up situationally.
- Almost lost in the Neal/Malkin afterglow is Marc-Andre Fleury. The Pens goal has been a steady revelation this year, continuing to make the big saves at big moments and quietly keep the shift aloft. The defense is at full health, which should help and Fleury has continued to show consistency- something any team needed to keep winning night after night in the NHL.
- 36 shots on goal for the Pens, with 59 attempts (15 blocked by the Rangers, 8 missing target). That's a lot of rubber being directed towards Lundqvist, have to imagine Dan Bylsma is satisfied with the effort and work-rate his team showed from the very beginning of the game.
- Every Penguin, except Orpik, recorded at least a shot on goal. Again, have to imagine that's an emphasized key in the room as well- pucks to the net boys, pucks to the net.
- Earlier in the season we marveled at Kris Letang's conditioning when he was easily piling up 26-27 minutes a night and not even seeming winded. Tonight in his first game back he skated 24:17 (beating Brooks Orpik for the team lead by an easy 2:07), had an assist, was +2, had 3 hits, 3 shots on net and 2 blocked shots. Remarkable. Like he never even missed a beat.
- And not to keep piling on young players, but with Sidney Crosby and Jordan Staal out injured, Dustin Jeffrey's getting to skate 2nd line minutes. And he's not doing much with it either. He put 2 shots on net- including a sterling chance all alone from point blank range- and only won 4 out of 14 faceoffs. Simply not enough. It's tough to blame a guy too much coming off a serious knee injury, but in 11 games this season Jeffrey's putting up a Tangradi-ian mark of 0 goals and 0 assists. Chances to prove yourself in the NHL don't always last that long and DJ15 better show some of that scoring touch if he wants to carve a niche in Pittsburgh.
- Malkin's dominance right now is on another plane. He's simply the biggest force in hockey right now and seemingly everything he's touching is turning into a scoring chance, if not a red light and a celebration. Malkin's found killer chemistry with a legit skilled winger in James Neal and the two of them are just carving up and decemating opponents by the night. Top goalies, top defensive matchup, it doesn't matter. Bring your guys and Malkin will deke them and put it in the net.
Leg one of this back to back part of the schedule is complete and well done. In a season of long winning and losing streaks the Pens are back in a groove, winners of four straight. They'll look to make it five tonight when Montreal comes for a visit.
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Wouldn’t worry about Neal’s cost. Who knows what the salary cap will look like. Who knows what the next collective bargaining agreement would look like either.
Regardless, the Pens will retain Neal’s rights, and if Ray Shero wants to keep a guy, he’s going to be able to keep him. The Pens have a lot of money tied up for next year, but it’d be relatively easy to move a highly paid defenseman and promote Simon Despres to clear up more than enough room to give Neal the raise he’ll command.
And, that said, compare Neal to like a Bobby Ryan contract ($5.1mm for 5 years) and it’s not that much of a cap hit raise from Neal’s current $2.875mm figure.
"You come at the King, you best not miss."
by Hooks Orpik on Jan 20, 2012 10:42 AM EST up reply actions
By moving defensemen, do you mean moving one of Letang, Orpik, Martin, or Michalek?
Hockey Blogger at Pensburgh.com
No, no, yes, no.
"You come at the King, you best not miss."
by Hooks Orpik on Jan 20, 2012 10:53 AM EST up reply actions
I think he’s playing pretty well, but his cost versus salary, especially considering Simon Despres does a lot of the things that Martin does, makes him the most expendable target. Obviously you wouldn’t trade Letang for the world, and I think Orpik and Michalek bring tougher to replace attributes to the blueline.
"You come at the King, you best not miss."
by Hooks Orpik on Jan 20, 2012 11:05 AM EST up reply actions
Pretend you are an NHL GM
And Shero calls and offers you Martin. What would you be willing to give up for him as of now?
by jedmiller71 on Jan 20, 2012 11:11 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
depends what kind of Cap Room my team has, and whether he can help shore up my D. If i’m Florida, Toronto, Colorado….i’d probably think about it. Or Minnesota even. I don’t think Shero would be demanding too much, 3rd round pick is more than fair IMO
You would be making a borderline desperation move IMO. If Martin is playing so poorly that we want to get rid of him, why would another team want him? If I’m Shero and I get offered a 3 AND they take his entire salary, I would consider myself lucky.
He has been a good player in the NHL for a while, I think, (uhh hope) his play will improve this year.
by jedmiller71 on Jan 20, 2012 11:22 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I don’t think it needs to be done, but i’m saying there would be enough teams that could use a player of his caliber and Shero would have no trouble offloading him if it came to that.
Right. And it would happen after the season ending too. It’s not like Shero’s going to say “oh he’s a minus player for one half of a season, has a few turnovers and the fans hate him, let’s make a deal!”
"You come at the King, you best not miss."
by Hooks Orpik on Jan 20, 2012 11:29 AM EST up reply actions
I’ve been really impressed at how many players or coaches on the Pens when interviewed are driving at out-shooting and out-chancing the opposition. It makes me feel good they’re not evaluating players on +/- and rather are seemingly placing an emphasis on shooting more. I think that has had a direct result in Malkin and Neal having the seasons their having, as they both are just taking it to other teams.
I can’t say I completely agree, but then I tell myself that Shero can do anything, he’s that good
by jedmiller71 on Jan 20, 2012 11:33 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
you don’t think Martin is tradeable? There’s a reason he got the contract he got. If it wasn’t from the Pens someone else would have….and I bet you there’s plenty of “hockey people” that view him as a valuable commodity.
It would be a case of selling very low. I don’t see anybody giving up much for him now. If he can show in the second half that this has been a slump rather than a measure of his actual ability, then I’m sure there’s a GM that would make the trade.
by jedmiller71 on Jan 20, 2012 11:44 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
But as Hooks mentioned somewhere in this thread, you don’t trade Martin at the trade deadline…that doesn’t help the Penguins with their goal of winning a championship this year. If anything you try to trade him during the offseason…but as I mentioned you don’t even need to do that unless something crazy happens with the salary cap
Agreed, wait til the offseason
Just as an aside, it can’t get repeated enough how fortunate we are to have the Shero-Bylsma team. Both are so good at what they do, in the NHL coaches never last long.
Before warmups last night Bylsma was meeting some people down by the bench area, on his way back in to the locker room he was already in the tunnel when I yelled his name. Came back out, autographed my game ticket and talked to me for a minute or two. Could not be a nicer guy.
by jedmiller71 on Jan 20, 2012 12:13 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I believe Martin has a limited NTC, so the options to deal him could limited.
He would be an intriguing player for a team needing to spend cap room, the Pens slightly front-loaded Martin’s contract these first two years, he’s “only” owed $14 million over the last three years of his deal ($4.66 million average), despite carrying a $5 mill cap hit. That’s a slight figure, but every bit helps for a lower market team looking to save a buck
Look at, say, Nashville who may lose one (or both) or Ryan Suter and Shea Weber either in trades or free agency. Adding a guy like Martin might work for them.
As for what Shero would want back, who’s to say. I would assume a prospect or two or a draft pick. Martin is a known quantity and a competent NHL defenseman that can move the puck and skate very well. Those types of players don’t grow on trees and when they do get traded, it’s usually for a decent return. I don’t think the Pens would ask the world for Martin, especially if he’s a piece to slide solely for cap relief when they’re looking at the next wave of contracts for Crosby, Staal, Neal, etc.
Or then again I could be off-base and the plan could be totally different. Either way, I’m still confident Shero and Botterill have a plan in place and will definitely find a way to sign James Neal to another contract.
"You come at the King, you best not miss."
by Hooks Orpik on Jan 20, 2012 11:18 AM EST up reply actions
Honestly I don’t even think Shero needs to move anyone to get the deal done. With Sullivan, Asham and Park coming off the books that would be enough to give Neal a raise and not lose any core players. We’re actually in great shape Cap wise
Good point.
Plus who knows how much the cap will rise with a solid Winter Classic (that made more $$ than Pittsburgh WC), the new Winnipeg market replacing Atlanta and new revenue for broadcasting.
And who knows what the CBA will be anyways.
Impossible to tell for sure.
"You come at the King, you best not miss."
by Hooks Orpik on Jan 20, 2012 11:28 AM EST up reply actions
I can’t imagine any defensemen out there who would come close to being able to replace Martin at a lower cost. Engallend and Niskanen get easy minutes and still don’t crush it, and during the recent spat of injuries, which required them to take top 4 minutes, they both did pretty poorly. I think you consistently underrate Martin’s talent (see my earlier piece).
What’s more, our top 4 D are one of the strongest attributes of this team. We went out to get Martin and Michalek because we were tired of watching Gogo and Gonchar struggle with the puck in the defensive zone. Removing Martin and bringing up Despres will cause a marked drop off in depth on the back end, not only because Despres is far less talented, but also because whoever moves up to take Martin’s position is not going to be as good.
If fans (and I’m not necessarily including you) want to make Martin the whipping boy for our six game losing streak, they have the burden of making the case against him. None of this “i see him play soft,” “he sucks,” or “his +/- is bad.” It has to be a real argument with real evidence that has consistently appeared to be reliable indications of long-term performance. With that in mind, Martin looks pretty damn good to me.
Hockey Blogger at Pensburgh.com
That’s well reasoned, but my theory is not “Trade Martin because he sucks”, it’s “The Pens have $16 million invested in 4 defensemen and that may cause a crunch”.
I’m well aware of the defensive puck moving situation, but I wouldn’t keep defense at the risk of losing a winger like Neal. You might, but in that case you’d probably be the Nashville Predators to my Anaheim Ducks.
To me, for standing $5 million against the cap, Martin’s replaceable by what ought to be a quickly improving Despres. I think within two years Despres can develop into a reasonable 3/4 option, especially with Letang, Orpik and Michalek continuing to eat big minutes and the toughest of the assignments.
"You come at the King, you best not miss."
Right, because mindlessly repeating that Martin is too soft and has a bad +/-, while refusing to provide any long-term examples demonstrating bad play is a beating. Please. If you have the research that demonstrates the long-term utility of +/- and the long-term disutility of possession, I’ll listen. All of the work I’ve read has highlighted the importance of focusing on possession and not getting too wrapped up in +/-.
It’s also tough to take you seriously because you obviously didn’t even read the comments. Not only were there a number of people who agreed with me in the comments, but that piece has 4 recs, which is rare for articles here at Pensburgh. If you want to make your case against Martin, go ahead. But the last thing any of the readers of this blog need is for you to come in here and assert your internet tough-guyness by making a bogus claim about the comments in my article while still refusing to address the actual issue we’re debating – the play of Paul Martin.
Hockey Blogger at Pensburgh.com
I’m sorry, I actually don’t think you were arguing against me, or if you were, I just read you wrong…please ignore my response below. I apologize.
Hockey Blogger at Pensburgh.com
haha, i definitely was not. no worries.
What i tried to say above was that it was rough reading the comments section with 2 or 3 people consistently saying the same stupid thing arguing against you. I’m on your side…. unwind, enjoy the weekend
Paul Martin
I thought Martin started the season well, but lately I cringe every time he is involved with a play. Either he’s pinching innapropriately (double entendre not intended … lol), or he is making inconvenient turnovers.
Yes, he is scoring points, but not enough to justify his crappy defense.
grain of salt
“crappy defense” is not even close to accurate.
Martin along with Michalek face the other teams top players
Martin along with Michalek have also have had the worst “luck” this year (PDO)
Martin has the second worst O-Zone Start % (behind Letang)
Martin draws more penalties than he takes
Martin logs over 24min/per game second on team (behind Letang)
Martin leads the D-core in Blocked shots, takeaways, even-strength points
He’s extremely useful and heavily relied on by the coaches so by definition…not crappy.
These are all great points. I honestly cannot believe many people on this blog are seriously entertaining the idea that Martin is playing so badly that we might actually think about trading him. It’s like everyone expects to get a defensemen for 2-3 million a year who doesn’t turn the puck over, never gives up scoring chances, skates a ton of minutes against top competition, and also scores 50-60 points.
Newsflash: Few players exist who fit that mold Penguins fans, and those that do command an enormous salary (Lidstrom is making $7 million a year at 40+ years old).
Hockey Blogger at Pensburgh.com
I think the question at hand is “how much of a downgrade is acceptable on the blueline in order to clear cap space for Neal”. Going from Martin to Depres is a drop of in current talent but is that offset by the cap space provided if it keeps Neal in Black and Gold.
Put on your dancin' shoes.
I think there are a number of things wrapped up in this.
First, what is Neal’s long term value? Obviously he’s having a great year, but what should give Shero caution is the fact that Neal is playing well above his career averages. He’s on pace to score 43 goals and 75 points, both of which are far and away career highs. We see GMs sign players every off season to a big contract when they have one great year (see Halak). Then these guys return back to normal and are no longer worth the money. The flipside is that Neal has been shooting the puck a lot more this year, which can certainly account for the increase in goals. Likewise, playing with Malkin can account for the increase in points.
But Shero should still be wary of devoting so much money to Neal based on this one season that he is forced to get rid of one of our top 4 D. The big question is whether Neal’s shot rate is going to be sustainable. I sure hope it is, but if it’s not, and we got rid of Martin to sign a guy because he had one good year, we are really screwed.
And like I’ve mentioned above, I also don’t think we’re so short on offense that signing a scoring winger should be such a high priority. Obviously we want Neal, but we still have Crosby, Malkin, Staal, etc, who have proven to be one of the better offensive units in the league the last couple of years. Moreover, that unit is stabilized on the back end with quality defensemen (that’s why we were successful last year w/o Geno and Crosby). In short, I think way too many people underrate what Martin does.
Hockey Blogger at Pensburgh.com
I would think Neal’s long term value would be pretty high. At least his production isn’t due to a ridiculous shooting %, I can see him keeping up the kind of shot rate he’s at right now. And I would also think, he’ll continue to shotgun on Malkin’s line in the future so a steep dropoff doesn’t seem very likely. I’d be comfortable with a long-term deal at or near $5.0m/yr.
I don’t think we have to choose between Neal and Martin…at least not yet anyway. They may need to make some tough decisions in 2013-14 when both Crosby and Staal are UFA’s but it wouldn’t affect what you give Neal now to secure a proven goal scorer.
Shot rate isn’t transient, which is a big plus for arguing that Neal can keep this up. I would just be nervous about investing that much in a guy based on one year.
Nevertheless, hopefully you’re right that we don’t have to make decisions like this.
Hockey Blogger at Pensburgh.com
At the beginning of the year I believe I argued that his talent ceiling was around that of a 35 goal scorer (with Crosby or Malkin as the pivot). He was consistently in the mid 20’s on the Stars and that was with a great playmaker (B.Richards). Do I expect him to score 40 yearly…i don’t, but I think 30 – 35 is a reasonable projection based on what we’ve seen this year. And a 30-35 goal scorer is Bobby Ryan, Patrick Sharp, Marian Hossa, Jeff Carter, Phil Kessel territory and none of those guys come cheap.
I honestly cannot believe many people on this blog are seriously entertaining the idea that Martin is playing so badly that we might actually think about trading him
If you’re referring to me, you mis-read my intentions. I think Martin’s a good player, and in the past 10 games he’s been pretty good.
But I think he’s the most replacable of the top 4 defenseman. If the cap necessitates dealing a player with a contract above $3 million, I’d say it should be Martin. I think, for his salary, you can plug Despres in on an ELC and use the $4 million in savings more advantageously to re-sign Neal, Staal, etc.
"You come at the King, you best not miss."
I don’t think any defensemen who gets top minutes against top players and out-possesses them consistently is “replaceable.”
Hockey Blogger at Pensburgh.com
Then it’s probably a personal preference. I think a lot of defenseman can (and do) what Martin does. Few do it as well and as consistent, which is why he commanded such a big salary on the open market. I didn’t argue that the Pens would be better in losing Martin.
If I told you the Pens had to lose one of Letang, Michalek, Orpik or Martin, relative their salaries and contributions which player would you tab as most replaceable? Personally- given age, contract, injury history, etc I would rank them the exact order above in which I’d hold on to.
I know from above your advocate keeping the defense strong and retain all, but let’s play devil’s advocate and assume the cap drops next CBA and one of them has to go. What’s your pick?
"You come at the King, you best not miss."
It’s a super close call – I think all top 4 dmen are very talented and paid pretty close to what they’re worth. I’d take Martin over Orpik. He’s a year younger, and Byslma has consistently given him more minutes than Orpik the last two years. He also plays tougher minutes, though Orpik has a better on-ice Corsi.
But this is close, and I’m not confident we know enough to make a really accurate decision. Hopefully we can keep them all.
Hockey Blogger at Pensburgh.com
If I told you the Pens had to lose one of Letang, Michalek, Orpik or Martin,
I’d put them in the same order as Hooks.
That said, I agree with GoPens! that losing Martin would hurt more than most seem to think. Engo or Nisky in the Top 4? No thanks!
Fortunately, I don’t think the Pens will be forced to offload a Top 4 D in order to sign Neal.
In Shero We Trust.
SBN Fantasy Hockey Blog: Fantasy Hockey Scouts
Diomedes7 on Twitter
I think the expectations of the “average” fan is that every forward should be at a point-per-game pace and every defenceman has to be “at least” as good as Letang.
Exactly. Everyone thinks if you’re +/- isn’t north of 130 you’re doing poorly. That’s hyperbole, but it still describes what’s going on. Looking only at goals is stupid because you miss the other 99% of what happens during the game. Based on how much time Bylsma gives Martin and his possession stats, there’s no question he is a very good player.
Hockey Blogger at Pensburgh.com
The Paul Martin chronicles
I see the recap of arguably the best win of the season for the Pens thus far has turned into a to trade or not to trade Paul Martin. I agree in a Capped league $5M is pretty rich, however despite what some opinions are, he’s a good defenseman. Top 4 on any roster in the league, Top 2 on a good number of them. That said he is tradeable if cap space is needed, but thinking Despres will cover for him within the next few years is wrong. The Pens erred letting Rob Scuderi go and Big Hal Gill (whom I know isn’t having a great year this year) the guys that ultimately signed to replace that tandem are Martin and Michalek, more expensive guys, arguably better guys, but you get rid of Martin you better really consider how to replace him. The Pens didn’t do that with Scuds and Gill and suffered for it the next season and suffered again paying more $$$ to replace them…
Re: the younger guys
I didn’t see the game (no NHL network where I live) so not sure what happened with Tangradi to get in a fight, but I have to say I have been pleased with his attempt at playing physically. He’s not scoring or generating quality shots, but he is checking and contributing however he can (I have seen some nice back checking). He is playing 4th liner until he learns to become a 2nd3rd liner in the NHL.
Jeffrey may not be scoring but the puck follows his stick. He is not a sniper but I think rust is affecting his offense. He is cycling well and playing excellent defense so he is also positively adding to the team. He can fill the Staal defensive center man role (minus the goals) for now.
by biedergb on Jan 20, 2012 10:17 AM EST via mobile reply actions
I was going to try to start a debate about whether or not Tangradi will ever develop into a legit 2nd line player until I noticed he’s 2 years younger than me. That restored my faith a little bit.
"When I put on my uniform, I feel I am the proudest man on earth."
-Roberto
by blackjackfishtaco on Jan 20, 2012 10:45 AM EST up reply actions
He’s young ,and injuries have delayed his game experience too, so he’s still fairly green. I was harsh above, but this is a prospect with only 137 AHL games and 26 NHL games under his belt, which adds up to almost 2 full seasons of play altogether.
"You come at the King, you best not miss."
by Hooks Orpik on Jan 20, 2012 10:49 AM EST up reply actions
My lack of faith had very little to do with your post. It feels like he’s been around forever, but it seems like he hasn’t made progress during the opportunities he’s been given (I say seem because I’m now too far south to see any Pens games unless they play the Caps or Canes). I thought he was much older, so I’m very happy to find out he’s still 22 (almost 23). There’s still time for him to grow.
"When I put on my uniform, I feel I am the proudest man on earth."
-Roberto
by blackjackfishtaco on Jan 20, 2012 11:22 AM EST up reply actions
I wouldn’t be surprised if that was the case at all. Especially with Shero’s comments about his new untouchable prospects that were Despres, Harrington, Morrow and Bennett. Tangradi’s name being an omission.
"You come at the King, you best not miss."
by Hooks Orpik on Jan 20, 2012 11:32 AM EST up reply actions
I was at the game with my wife, whose hockey knowledge is shall we say limited; during the fight she says “Everybody was so quiet the whole game, now it’s like the whole crowd woke up”. Pretty much sums it up
by jedmiller71 on Jan 20, 2012 10:21 AM EST via mobile reply actions
great commentary
was thinking the same re: Tangradi’s “fight”
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Diomedes7 on Twitter
Tangradi is the next Caputi, in Shero’s bag of tricks. In my opinion he’s already had plenty of ice time, and hasn’t shown anything.
The Hockey Dr.
Let’s just hope that Shero doesn’t deal him for the next Ponikarovsky…
Hard work always beats talent if talent doesn't work hard.
"Matt Cooke and Evgeni Malkin for Brian Boyle, Derek Stepan, Brandon Dubinsky, Mike Rupp, and a first round pick." -JackCampbell
How many brooks would a Brooks Laich like if a Brooks Laich could like brooks?
by wg1of5 on Jan 20, 2012 1:40 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
yep. Shero traded nothing for a chance at something.
that’s always a good trade.
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