Trade Deadline: Possible Targets for Pittsburgh (forwards edition)
by Hooks Orpik on Feb 16, 2012 9:47 AM EST
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PrintIt's one of the best parts of the year for fans of contending teams- it's the NHL trade deadline time. Top teams are looking for that extra piece to hopefully load them up for a deep playoff run and the disappointing teams are looking to shed veteran free-agents-to-be for futures of young players and draft picks to rebuild their franchises.
Prerequisite to this piece should be reading Mike Colligan's Trade Deadline Gameplan, where he lays out the Penguins salary cap situation, and how it ties to Sidney Crosby and how the market this year may not be very favorable for GM Ray Shero to swing his customary huge trade.
With that in mind, who are some guys that could be on the market for the right price? And what's a good idea of what that price and more.
Ryan Malone
#12 / Left Wing / Tampa Bay Lightning
6-4
219
Dec 01, 1979
$4.5 million cap hit through 2014-15
2011-12 stat line: 42 games 27 points (10 goals, 17 assists)
Potential, suggested reasonable trade: Malone to Pittsburgh for Paul Martin
Why it could happen: Malone would still have three years on his contract at $4.5 million dollars, but hey, this is an NHL where Brooks Laich, Erik Cole, Martin Erat and Tomas Fleischmann have long-term $4.5 million per year salaries. You gonna tell me Malone makes them look that bad? Injury history aside, I'd take Bugsy back for that price, given where the salary cap is set and the climate of other forwards around the league. Malone's big, tough, rugged, has a history in Pittsburgh, etc.
Why it couldn't happen: The Pens need to sign James Neal this off-season and swapping one big contract for another isn't going to help much. Also, who knows it Tampa will be looking to actually increase their payroll by adding Martin. Easy to see them just preferring to stick with Malone and hope they can address their defense through another avenue. Also, as crazy as it may sound to Pens fans, GM Ray Shero may not want to trade Martin for a forward and damage his defensive depth this season.
Ales Hemsky
#83 / Right Wing / Edmonton Oilers
6-0
184
Aug 13, 1983
$4.1 million cap hit through 2011-12 (UFA)
2011-12 stat line: 43 games 24 points (4 goals, 20 assists)
Potential, suggested reasonable trade: Hemsky to Pittsburgh for Tyler Kennedy, Brian Strait OR Robert Bortuzzo and a 1st round pick
Why it could happen: Hemsky would add a lot of skill to the Pens, and he's been an oft rumored (but never traded) player for years now. Close your eyes and picture the Kunitz/Malkin/Neal first line then a second line consisting of Ales Hemsky dishing passes to a healthy Sidney Crosby. Pretty tempting thought, and the trade deadline's all about dreaming the big dream.
Why it couldn't happen: The non-physical Hemsky is hardly in the mold of a North/South Dan Bylsma type winger. Very easy to imagine the Pens wouldn't be high on Hemsky just because of his style not meshing with the team. Also Edmonton's not been in a hurry to trade him and has publically talked more about re-signing Hemsky than trading him- which means the price could be higher than listed here.
Rick Nash
#61 / Left Wing / Columbus Blue Jackets
6-4
216
Jun 16, 1984
$7.8 million cap hit through 2017-18 (UFA)
2011-12 stat line: 57 games 39 points (18 goals, 21 assists)
Potential, suggested reasonable trade: On your xbox
Why it could happen: It couldn't.
Why it couldn't happen: Every reason in the world. The Pens are already a very top-heavy team with big money contracts for Sidney Crosby, Evgeni Malkin, and Marc-Andre Fleury. Adding another huge hit, not a great idea. And I can't see Columbus being too thrilled to sell their franchise for Jordan Staal and a couple of picks and prospects.
Travis Moen
#32 / Left Wing / Montreal Canadiens
6-2
217
Apr 06, 1982
$1.5 million cap hit through 2011-12 (UFA)
2011-12 stat line: 48 games 16 points (9 goals, 7 assists)
Potential, suggested reasonable trade: middle level prospect and/or a pick
Why it could happen: Classic UFA-to-be on a team not making the playoffs. Unlike Hemsky, Moen's physical style seems more fit for the Penguins in terms of his attitude on the ice and the way he plays the game.
Why it couldn't happen: Moen, while a physical player and a playoff-type performer (remember his 7 goals and 12 points in Anaheim's 2007 Cup run?) only has 52 goals in 572 career games. The Penguins have a bevy of checking line wingers and with a finite amount of space under the salary cap, are they really going to use it to acquire another non-descript, hard-working winger with a lack of scoring touch? (On second thought, maybe this rationale should go on the "why it will happen line").
David Jones
#54 / Right Wing / Colorado Avalanche
6-2
210
Aug 10, 1984
$2.5 million cap hit through 2011-12 (UFA)
2011-12 stat line: 48 games 23 points (12 goals, 11 assists)
Potential, suggested reasonable trade: Jones to Pittsburgh for Strait OR Bortuzzo. Or a mid-level forward prospect (think Brian Rust, Tom Kuhnhackl, Ban Hanowski, etc)
Why it could happen: Jones has size and scored 27 goals last season, so he's got some measure of hands too. Though close observers of the Avs say he's had a somewhat disappointing season this year, plugging Jones into the Pens lineup adds a little more offensive punch then currently found in top 6 wingers (outside of James Neal and Chris Kunitz, natch). Also Colorado probably would be willing to deal Jones at the deadline if the right deal came along.
Why it couldn't happen: As always- price. If Colorado insisited on a prospect the Pens didn't want to give up, or if Shero feels like the player is more Alexei Ponikarovsky than Chris Kunitz, it might be dead from the Pens side of the equation just as quickly.
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Neither would I
Rick Nash plays on a terrible team and is averaging a measly 0.7 ppg. I guess you could say the opposition keys on him, but on the flipside it isn’t as if the opponents often play their starter or their playoff level intensity game vs. the CBJ.
The guy is talented, but I’ve always seen him as a floater. Carter even moreso, hence CBJ dead last…
I wouldn’t use Nash’s ppg this season as writing him off. I think I’ve read that since the lockout only Ovechkin, Kovalchuk and Iginla have more goals. (Maybe there was one more).
There’s no doubt adding Rick Nash would/will be a huge coup for any contender. He’s a stud, but on his big contract, it’s not worth it for the Pens who have to re-up Crosby, Malkin and Staal in the coming years.
"You come at the King, you best not miss."
by Hooks Orpik on Feb 16, 2012 12:46 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Nash is a perennial 30 goal scorer, guys like him don’t exactly grow on trees. HOWEVAH… Nash at $7.8mil vs Staal at $4.0mil would be an insane price to pay for a team that already has Crosby & Malkin making $8.7 each. Staal is the perfect complement to anchor a shutdown 3rd line come playoff time. Getting Nash would accomplish what exactly? move Neal to the 2nd PP unit? People forget Crosby can literally carry an entire line on his own, he simply doesn’t need a winger.
Staal vs. Nash
Nash at $7.8mil vs Staal at $4.0mil would be an insane price to pay
Totally agree.
Staal has more value to the Pens than Nash does, straight up.
To also give up picks or prospects only exacerbates things.
As does the huge disparity in their contracts.
SBN Fantasy Hockey Blog: Fantasy Hockey Scouts
I would, hehe
But Columbus would have to be NUTS to propose that. Rick Nash is a stud – put him on a good team like the Pens and he would double his assists total. I don’t think Columbus gives him away at all, but if they do, the price will be huge!
"90% of the game is physical. The other half is mental." - Yogi Berra
kind of like how he exploded with huge numbers this season now that Jeff Carter is on his line? I don’t think there’s any evidence that his assists would double on a good team.
I don’t want Nash.. but he is a stud player. Anyone who expected his numbers to jump with Jeff Carter on his line is a complete moron. Jeff Carter is a shooter. That is all that he is. Guess what Rick Nash is? A shooting power forward. Any “expert” or analyst who said something like “Wait until you see what Nash can do now that he has a center like Carter to play with” should be fired. Their styles DO NOT complement each other. Both of them need someone to feed them the puck.
by SidgeniMalsby on Feb 16, 2012 5:06 PM EST up reply actions
That could do the trick.. if Carter would be content playing wing
by SidgeniMalsby on Feb 16, 2012 5:43 PM EST up reply actions
Carter plays wing all the time. In Philly he was almost always next to Richards or Giroux.
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I believe in next year.
by red army line on Feb 16, 2012 11:53 PM EST up reply actions
Interesting to put TK in the trade mix, especially since we just gave him a big contract renewal, which, don’t forget, might be one of the reasons we didn’t land Jagr.
I like how you stuck Crosby on the 2nd line, not longer the first. I agree with it, this is Malkin’s team right now, even if Crosby does come back. Apparently the NHL games knew this the whole time too- on my system they always have Malkin as 1C.
I read on twitter Malone is rumored to be traded.
I am intrigued about bringing him back. The only thing that scares me a bit is his injury history and he’s signed through 2015 with that cap hit.
He would be exactly what the Pens need in my opinion. Physical winger that can play in the top 6 and score a bit. I question whether Tampa would trade for Martin straight up (and there’s the obstacle of both I think having NTC).
"It's a great day for hockey" - Badger Bob
by StripesForLife on Feb 16, 2012 10:24 AM EST via mobile reply actions
With Sid, we are Cup contenders,
Without him, we are middle of the playoff pack, and I can’t think of any realistic trade possibilities that will improve our chances by that much.
by jedmiller71 on Feb 16, 2012 10:31 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Yeah, I think that goes without saying. Without Sid, the Pens are a one line team and probably destined to bow out in the first or second round, depending on how guys like Fleury and Malkin played.
But add a healthy Sid and another offensive winger and Pittsburgh ought to be right there with Boston and NYR as far as the top contenders in the East.
"You come at the King, you best not miss."
by Hooks Orpik on Feb 16, 2012 11:43 AM EST up reply actions
If Sid is sat til playoffs and on ltir or whatever can we still get wingers and use Sid at playoffs? Isn’t there no limit on salary cap in playoffs?
Correct, there is no salary cap in the playoffs. The team, theoretically, could put Crosby on LTIR and exceed the cap by what’s left of the $8.7 million they still have to pay him.
Only two problems-
1) Sid would have to stay out through the regular season, which it neither he nor the team is planning on.
2) Ownership would have to cowboy up (again) and be willing to spend more money than they expected. I don’t know about you, but it doesn’t go over so well when I go to my boss asking for more money for expenses.
So it’s possible, but really unlikely. Moreso bc they think/want Sid back as soon as possible. Mario and Burkle have several times gone above and beyond $$ wise to give the team the best possible chance (Hossa, Kovalev and Neal/Niskanen are all examples of taking away more from the bottom line).
"You come at the King, you best not miss."
by Hooks Orpik on Feb 16, 2012 12:49 PM EST up reply actions
Before the season started I looked at our roster and said “wow, this roster literally has no holes”. With the return of Sid and an defensive improvement from 4 and 7 I am afraid of no team in the league.
by jedmiller71 on Feb 16, 2012 12:36 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Yeah, I don’t see Philly too quick to trade a NHL stud for an AHL stud….Especially to their chief rival.
"You come at the King, you best not miss."
by Hooks Orpik on Feb 16, 2012 11:44 AM EST up reply actions
All the stories I see is they’re pretty disappointed with JvR and lots of rumors of him maybe going to Toronto.
I think the disappointment should be relative. Tangradi isn’t even in the same league (literally) as JvR.
"You come at the King, you best not miss."
by Hooks Orpik on Feb 16, 2012 12:15 PM EST up reply actions
If JVR is traded to Toronto, Philly will be getting Luke Schenn in return. Luke Schenn is a stud. Tangradi at this point is a middling prospect at best.
by SidgeniMalsby on Feb 16, 2012 5:09 PM EST up reply actions
you could say Schenn is a middling to downward trending stud. I would pass on that as well if I were Philly.
by AronV on Feb 16, 2012 5:25 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Perhaps.. but defensive defensemen generally take a bit longer to develop than forwards or offensive/two-way d-men.
Perhaps.. but defensive defensemen generally take a bit longer to develop than forwards or offensive/two-way d-men.If I’m Philly I do it.. they have a glut of young top-6 forward talent and they need a clear-the-porch type of Dman now that Pronger is done. To get one as young as Schenn I’d trade JVR for him in a heartbeat
by SidgeniMalsby on Feb 16, 2012 5:46 PM EST up reply actions
Of course the Flyers JUST acquired Nik Grossman from Dallas.. so the JVR/Schenn thing is probably off the table
by SidgeniMalsby on Feb 16, 2012 5:48 PM EST up reply actions
And don’t forget, the Flyers did trade their Captain and one of their top scorers away, and then signed a worthless Talbot to a huge deal based on two years of mediocrity.
ok, but in those trades they got studs like Brayden Schenn and Sean Couturier, not to mention Simmonds and Voracek. They weren’t exactly giving them away. Tangradi is simply not worth that much, he’s akin to a 2nd/3rd round draft pick at this point.
And while I agreed with the Pens not signing Talbot, I wouldn’t say his 14 goals 11 assists and PK’ing are worthless. What does that make TK?
Furthermore, those Richards and Carter trades were each part of a plan to retool with younger players/prospects. A team that’s trying to build around young star players isn’t about to deal a 23-year-old former second-overall pick, unless they’re getting a truly amazing return. And yeah, Tangradi’s trade value at this point is nearly nil; think Caputi at the time we dealt him, and that’s about what Tangradi is worth now.
Hard work always beats talent if talent doesn't work hard.
"Matt Cooke and Evgeni Malkin for Brian Boyle, Derek Stepan, Brandon Dubinsky, Mike Rupp, and a first round pick." -JackCampbell
How many brooks would a Brooks Laich like if a Brooks Laich could like brooks?
The Flyers got MASSIVE over-payments for Richards and Carter. I said it when the trades happened, and it’s being proven true now… especially the Carter deal.
by SidgeniMalsby on Feb 16, 2012 5:10 PM EST up reply actions
Talbot?
A worthless Talbot? Doesn’t he have like 15 goals for Philly? 5 year deal too long but his cap hit is a pretty good deal for them. In reply to the JvR proposal, I think Philly is looking to trade him, but they’d definitely want more than Tangradi.
As for MAlone-Martin, given Tampa’s Blue Line woes they might be interested, it’s essentially a salary swap to get a credible blue liner for a credible forward. I like Malone but the Penguins are the last team in the league that should be gambling with guys who are injury prone. Also lose Martin and your Defensive depth gets a lot thinner, especially this season.
As for Dollars, If Sid is shelved, his money would be available for rentals, wouldn’t replace Sid but would add a lot more depth than the Pens have now. Still depends on what is asked in return. If GMRS could pull a deal like he did with Atlanta to get Hossa and Dupuis that’d be ideal.. Sad truth is with all the parity, just not many sellers in the league.
Talbot. This will be the last post I make about Talbot. He is capable of playing well when he has the motivation (i.e in Philly he has a new team, new town to impress). He’s not total garbage, but in time, he will endear himself to Philly fans and get back to being mediocre. Pitt fans put up with him because of ONE game in which he came through BIG time for us. He realized we all loved him and his play mirrored that fact. Personally, I love the guy for how he played for us in game 7, but was totally fine with seeing him move on after 2 years of struggling to be a 4th line center.
You are waaaaay underrating Talbot. It was at LEAST 2 games, maybe even 3.
Game 7.
Scored the opening goal in game 3.
SSSHHHH!!!!!
by jedmiller71 on Feb 16, 2012 1:49 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Didn’t he have eight goals in that run? I know some were empty netters, but come on. A little bit of respect please?
by SlayerGhaleon on Feb 18, 2012 9:07 AM EST up reply actions
Out of the above listed options, I'd like Jones the most of any possible trades we could make.
I wouldn’t mind Malone in principle, but his health issues and scary contract make him far less attractive. Moreover, I’m not sure he has quite the skating ability to succeed at even-strength in Bylsma’s system. He’s useful on the PP, but is the difference between he and Kunitz really that big?
Obviously, Hemsky would be an amazing addition; he’s a tremendous talent, and I think he’d mesh with the Pens’ system better than people seem to expect. However, I can’t see the Pens paying the Hossa-like price the Oilers will surely require (I don’t think that package above is enough, though it’s probably a decent start), and I’m not sure I’d want them to anyway. And if we did acquire him, there’s no way we’d be able to retain both he and Neal at the end of the season.
Love the bit on Nash.
Moen is a Bylsma-type player, yeah, but as is mentioned, we have plenty of those. Just don’t see the point in dealing for him and scratching someone like Asham or Adams, as the drop-off from Moen to one of those guys just isn’t that much.
So now we come to Jones. Basically, I look at him the same way I do Malone, but without the injury/cap concerns. He’s a free agent at the end of the year, won’t cost too terribly much to trade for, and can be plugged into our top-six for the rest of the year, without any risk of becoming a long-term albatross if he doesn’t rebound from the slump he’s in. I haven’t heard any suggestions that Colorado will deal him, but if they plan to, Shero should be all over him.
Hard work always beats talent if talent doesn't work hard.
"Matt Cooke and Evgeni Malkin for Brian Boyle, Derek Stepan, Brandon Dubinsky, Mike Rupp, and a first round pick." -JackCampbell
How many brooks would a Brooks Laich like if a Brooks Laich could like brooks?
Pass
None of these guys are worth what it would likely require to obtain them.
If Crosby comes back, the team can win the Cup.
If he doesn’t, Ales Hemsky or David Jones are not going to matter.
SBN Fantasy Hockey Blog: Fantasy Hockey Scouts
Well the least risky trade would be the moen trade and I’d like to see him in Pittsburgh, but as you said it would have little impact on the roster. I’m kinda getting sold on that Malone trade… Not sure who his linemates would be though.
I just don’t see who Moen would be an upgrade over? Adams…maybe. Not enough to give up anything of value in that case. Well, Malone would probably line up with Crosby and Dupuis. IF Malone was a UFA at the end of the year, i’d do it. But he’s locked up for a while still.
Well Moen is a scrappy player (atleast what I’ve seen) maybe he could come in and take Ashams spot. Moen Vitale Adams would probably work.. and atleast in my mind Moen > Asham. As for Malone, I completely agree… I just wanna see him in a Pens sweater again.. its just that nasty contract, but hey its less than what Martin is making. Martin probably has more value though.
ok, but Asham is not even a starter on this team anymore. I’m not sure we need to upgrade our healthy scratch for the playoffs.
Agreed, this team has enough 3rd/4th line wingers.
But don’t write Asham off yet…he seems to score a LOT in the playoffs…..
by jedmiller71 on Feb 17, 2012 4:32 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Agreed.. when Asham is healthy I love him on the 3rd or 4th line. For the role he plays on teams he has decent hands
by SidgeniMalsby on Feb 17, 2012 6:26 PM EST up reply actions
I’m LOLing at the thought of Ray Shero, a man who never overpays for a player, giving up near NHL ready D prospect AND a first rounder for a pending UFA who doesn’t play the Shero/Bylsma style.
And no, Moen played a part in a Cup winning team. If we got him for cheap enough, he’d be a great addition considering the fact injuries play a significant role these days.
Let's grind these bitches down!
by lostprophetRJX on Feb 17, 2012 9:20 PM EST up reply actions
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